RH: We have in the Finnish experiment a rotating mechanical system, which is very cold, superconducting and which apparently giving us a decrease in weight or inertia of a test mass suspended above it. We have in the stuff that you have been talking about that has come to you from these various sources, similar multi-layered rare earth materials that ostensibly when they are excited with high frequency voltages and fields will produce similar negative gravity effects, only magnified, and the question was how do these two relate to each other. The analogy I was going to make is that we used to have radios that were very big and massive and heavy and depended on vacuum tubes, which physically moved the electrons across the vacuum inside this glowing or this sealed glass cylinder from a cathode to an anode. (Art: boil them off) By varying that boiling process through other mechanisms we basically modulated radio and you could hear music coming through the air. We now have devices that do all this on a chip the size of a period at the end of a sentence. And they do the same thing, all solid state, "Look Ma, no hands, no moving parts, no nothing", yet it has the same effect. What I think we are looking at is two ends of the same phenomena. One where we are mechanically moving something in terms of the primitive process, and the other where you might very sophisticatedly by means of field structures and frequency standing waves and all kinds of [historesus ???] effects be moving atoms and crystal patterns within a material that would achieve the same effect. One is solid state, the other is the gross mechanical movement that we are getting out of the Finland experiment. Just a thought.

CALLER: I used to work in the semiconductor industry so I kind of was on that track, but I wanted to do a reality track with you and make sure that I'm going in the right direction there.

AB: I think you are. You are on the same road we are.

RH: I can't wait to talk to you and maybe by the time that we get out to Seattle you'll have something to show me. Don't be a stranger. Let me know between now and then.

AB: I want to touch on something and then we'll take our break. This is kind of off track but it is worth repeating to you. "Dear Art, I have been watching NBCs Nightside for a couple of hours tonight and guess what! They ran a story toward the end of the hour on 'Life on Europa' by a team of researchers at the University of California at Berkeley based on a paper published by Richard Hoagland some years ago. NBC said Mr. Hoagland wasn't available for comment the day they contacted him. Could you please ask Richard whether he has finally done something about that story on Nightside." (Chris in Burbank California)

RH: NBC never contacted me. Never attempted to.

AB: Really?

RH: Really.

AB: I'm getting a little tired of things published and broadcast, like the thing I sent you, where they just, they don't bother to contact you. They just sort of...They go ahead and do what they want to do.

RH: Did our friend tape it? Do we know what they said? Did they spell my name right?

AB: I hope so. I hope they at least said it right.

RH: I heard from a friend of ours, a member of the Enterprise Mission , Aaron Johnson, who is hanging on his radio and has just fainted after he heard his name mentioned.....he listened the other night and was up late enough to hear Hugh Downs, my old friend from NBC and 20/20 of late, talking with Arthur Clarke, who is my old friend from Sri Lanka. And they were talking about Europa and they actually were discussing me and the paper I wrote and all that a few nights ago on an ABC news thing. So it is getting around that, " My God! Maybe we have actually thought of something here!" Eventually those things do happen. That's what I mean by there is still a tremendous amount of hope. Because most of the system is still honest. It's just very, very, very, very lazy. (Break and commercial for Art Bell show/tapes)

AB: (reads from a listener's correspondence) "Lightweight headphones have a ceramic magnet layered with a conductive material. Please ask what might happen if one were to place one of these headphone magnets over the superconductive temperature surface of a ceramic disc and use a sound generator to produce various sound frequencies.

RH: Podkletnov, in his paper, describes looking at this as a possible complicating factor, that that could be causing the levitation and the reduction of weight, and he has a phrase here.... "partial acoustic levitation usually caused by a high intensity ultrasonic field with a frequency of 20 to 40 Hertz, seems hardly probable in the present case, meaning of the loss of weight, as no special transducers generating standing waves replied, and the intensity of ultrasonic radiation from the solenoid was relatively low.

AB: Huh. So that is something they could try.

RH: They could try, but it's not what's going on.

AB: That's not the answer. First time caller line. You're on the air with Richard Hoagland. Where are you, please?

CALLER: Yeah. This is Travis. I'm in Huntsville, Alabama. I've been investigating Art's parts for Linda Howe for about the last three months, and I've been trying to contact Richard Hoagland on his Internet for months. (Laughter from Richard)

RH: I'm inundated

CALLER: And several of my colleagues have been, as well.

RH: Well, all you have to do is fax me. Calller: Okay, well, what I want to talk to you about, Richard, is within the last few days we put these Art's parts over a half a million volts static electric field. And Linda is showing a video tape tonight, well, this morning, actually, in Tampa of what we showed.

AB: Don't hold us in suspense.

CALLER: Well, I don't want to scoop Linda, of course, but I will tell you that they moved.

AB: Oh my God.

CALLER: Okay, but what I don't understand is if Richard knows something, why will he not let the genuine physicists in the real world know what to look for, and we'll do the research. I've e-mailed him a million times.

RH: But I don't read e-mail.

CALLER: (Laughs) Well, okay, then tell me how to get in contact ...

RH: It's like drinking from a fire hose. If you want to reach me. Use paper. Use a fax machine, or call me. The electronic mechanism is something I don't do. We do that publicly on the Web. There's a discussion going on in the conference. But private e-mail is really, really, really private. Otherwise, I would never get anything done.

CALLER: Well, you know you're Web address, the physics part is constantly under construction.

RH: Not any more.

CALLER: Well, I didn't get there this week.

RH: Well, you got to get there tonight.

AB: Are you at a university or...

CALLER: I am with the Department of Defense.

RH: You're with the Department of Defense?

CALLER: Yes. Linda played three or four minutes of an interview with me on Dreamland.

AB: That's right. She did, and you're telling me the Tampa conference going on is going to have a video tape showing...

CALLER: Oh yeah. It was on Friday night, but I don't know what this is for you, but Friday evening. I Fedexed on Thursday video tape to her of Art's parts jumping like crazy. We put it in a half a million volt static electric field.

AB: Oh my gosh.

CALLER: But I do have to make a disclaimer, here, that it's only a peculiarity that I can't explain. I mean, I can't say that it is an alien thing, but I can say that it's doing what this person, your source, said it would do. When we reached a half a million volts, it jumped off of the generator.

AB: Would mind forwarding a copy of that tape to me.

CALLER: Oh, Linda has it.

AB: I understand. Can you send...

CALLER: And Linda has the sole copy, actually.

AB: She has the sole copy.

CALLER: I have the...She has the edited, you know, in order, but I have all the pieces of the tape on various tapes.

AB: All right. What is your first and last name, please.

CALLER: My name is Travis Taylor

AB: Travis Taylor, right.

CALLER: And I have been with the Department of Defense at the Redstone Arsenal for over 10 years, and I am not doing this with the Department of Defense. I've only done this as my own curiosity for Linda. I saw Art's parts on the Internet, and I think, if you remember Linda's disclaimer on Dreamland, you know what I've done.

AB: I do. Yes.

RH: Travis, let me ask you something? Do you have a fairly well equipped laboratory?

CALLER: Whatever you want to do, Richard, we'll do it.

RH: All right. Art, what we'll do is we'll do our own experiment with Travis's permission.

CALLER: I've been trying to get in touch with you for...

AB: Sir, Travis, let us give you Richard's fax number, and that'll end your problem.

CALLER: Okay. I've got a pen.

AB: Area code 201-271-1703.

CALLER: Okay. Now, I don't... I could have probably got this through Linda, but I've been listening tonight...

RH: She has my phone number. I don't understand why you didn't...

CALLER: No, ...

AB: She didn't get the video tape until Friday night, in other words, hours ago.

CALLER: She had it ten minutes before she had to do a talk.

AB: There you go.

CALLER: No, that's not the point. The point is I was listening tonight, and I felt sort of ... I don't want to say offended, but what Richard has said tonight, especially when he was talking about the George C. Marshall people and Huntsville scientists, it's sort of struck a nerve with me because myself and I know of ten other engineers that's been helping me to do this, and we've been doing this on our own time, and we've all been working very diligently on this, and we don't seem to... either Richard doesn't know about it...

RH: Well, I didn't know about it.

AB: No, there was no way. Look, this has been handled through Linda. This is obviously, since Linda just got the tape and the results, you're giving us information that she would have no way of transferring to me or Richard, for that matter yet, so Travis, hang tight. We'll talk to Linda. We've got Dreamland coming up on Sunday. The information transfer will take place. Send a fax to Richard. We'll get together, and we'll get this and make it public, okay?

CALLER: Yeah. That's fine.

RH: Travis, go on the Web in the physics section, and download Podkletnov's papers. It's all up there, including his 1992 paper, the Max Plank review of the paper, which is a kind of an update, including the new paper, or the new parts of the paper that has been withdrawn.

CALLER: Well, have you seen the paper by ?Tor?..

RH: No.

CALLER: That talks about layers of superconductors and conductors for anti-gravity, and it won an gravitation award.

RH: Well, I've heard about it. I haven't seen it, but I have heard about it. That's why I mentioned layering as one important clue.

AB: Of course. Uh, Travis, my friend, thank you. Trust me. We'll be in touch.

CALLER: Okay. Thanks, Art.

AB: Take care. Holy mackerel, Richard. I say again: Holy mackerel.

RH: Or in the south, it would be catfish.

AB: I wish I could more on the radio. Holy mackerel. That's one of the things we've been waiting for. Yikes! I don't know what else to say. Yikes!

RH: Well, it's coming, it is converging, let's say. This has been a rather remarkable month, wouldn't you say?

AB: Yes, sir. I absolutely would. That's a result I've been waiting for. Holy smokes. All right. Wild card, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. Hi.

CALLER: Hi Art. Mike in KEX country. I about fell out of my chair when he was talking about the opposing disks, and then I'll have a question. I want to tell you what I conceived of for a flying model. I was thinking about taking two disks, similar to a Frisbee, and rotating them in opposite directions with a high speed DC motor, but I can't believe that he was talking about that, and I would have another prototype that would actually fly using a little bit different technology, but my question was: Did they explain anything about the amount amperage or anything that that experiment with the anti-gravity was drawing with the high voltage?

AB: Are you referring to the call we just had from Travis Taylor?

CALLER: No, no. He's been talking about the anti-gravity experiment in a ...

AB: Right. It was a very small amount of current. Isn't that correct, Richard?

RH: Yes, really very small. I mean, you're dealing with a disk that's, what, 145 mm across and 6 mm thick, in his original experiment, floating on a Meisner field, and then spun at several thousand rpm. So the actual amount of current and the amperage in order to make it spin, has got to be pretty small. So we're not talking large currents here.

AB: God. This is sinking in to me what Travis Taylor just told us. He's not talking about a 2% reduction in weight, Richard. He's...I mean, to use his words, he's talking about it lifting off.

RH: Well, but wait a minute. We don't know the details, and I can take a comb, and I can rub it on a piece of cat fur. I'm sitting here with a cat in my lap.

AB: An electrostatic charge.

RH: Yeah, and you apply electrostatic field to anything, it will jump. That's not what's important here. You got to define the experiment.

AB: Yeah. I guess we've got to see the tape.

RH: We've got to see the video. He said there were several parts to it. I don't know the technical background of these individuals. I don't know anything about them other than they sound motivated, which is 90% of the battle. And we will find out.

AB: Well, it is legit because I did hear a portion of the tape. Linda contacted him and actually ran a tape from him on Dreamland.

RH: Oh I am assuming he is sophisticated enough to know how to eliminate obvious things like jumping due to static discharge and stuff like that. So there is some attention here that should be paid, and obviously when we see the video we can say more. This is interesting.

AB: (Laughs) West of the Rockies. You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. Hi.

CALLER: Hi. Thanks, Art. I was wondering if I could digress just for a moment?

AB: Sure.

CALLER: I was wondering if Richard had heard of what Major Dames had his remote viewing, his findings on the moon, what he found that supposedly brought down a Soviet observer, and he alluded to the fact, and maybe brought down the Mars Observer.

AB: All right. Well, it would be very hard for Richard to comment on that.

RH: It's a radical shift of subject, and I think we ought to reserve that for another show.

AB: I quite agree. Let's see. First time caller line. You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland. Hi.

CALLER: Hi. This is Diamond from Grass Valley. Richard was saying that they needed to have ordinary people get involved in this. This is something I can do. I'm an ordinary person that's been having some extremely extraordinary experiences that both of you have been very much involved in. It's really eerie. I have had no formal education other that graduation from high school. What I have been doing is for the past three years I have been putting together a project that is one of the... the first part of this project has been an anti-gravitic solar type vehicle. And I had not been aware of any of you people until just the past few months.

AB: All right. We're not going to have time to pursue it with you so what need to do...

RH: Fax us with the details.

AB: Fax Richard with the details. Area code 201-271-1703. I've got it memorized now. We're about out of time, so a final word. This has been a very, very important night. Very important, and I'm sure it's just sinking in for a lot of people out there. Any final advise to them?

RH: Yeah, this is something that you have to get involved in. If you want to see the world change, here is your chance because this is not complicated, there's lots of help at the local community level in high schools and in community colleges, and you can really strike a blow for democracy, freedom and real science and real curiosity, and ordinary people who are the most extraordinary part of this changing paradigm.

AB: So, as they used to say on Hill Street Blues, which I still watch, "Let's be careful out there." Let's not lose any fingers, and let's go to the Website and find out the details before we begin experimenting in the kitchen or the lab or a high school lab.

RH: Yeah.

AB: Richard, as always, a distinct pleasure and what a bombshell here at the end. My friend, it's not good-bye. It's just till next time, as usual. Take care.

RH: Ahead, warp factor whatever.

AB: Goodnight, Richard.

RH: Goodnight, Art.