WASHINGTON INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
              oceanographic and physical sciences

Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher
President and Chairman of Board

                      November 29, 1983



Mr.__________________
_____________________
_____________________

Dear Mr.____________:

I am sorry I have taken so long in answering your letters.  However, I have
moved my office and have had to make a number of extended trips.

To answer your last question in your letter of October 14, 1983, there is
no particular reason I feel I shouldn't or couldn't answer any or all of
your questions.  I am delight- ed to answer all of them to the best of my
ability.

You listed some of your questions in your letter of September 12th.  I will
attemp to answer them as you had listed them.

1.  Relating to my own experience regarding re- covered flying saucers, I
had no association with any of the people involved in the recovery and have
no knowl- edge regarding the dates of the recoveries.  If I had I would
send it to you.

2.  Regarding verification that persons you list were involved, I can only
say this:

John Von Neuman was definitely involved.  Dr.  Vannever Bush was definitely
involved, and I think Dr.  Robert Oppenheimer also.

My association with the Research and Development Board under Doctor Compton
during the Eisenhower administration was rather limited so that although I
had been invited to participate in several discussions associated with the
re- ported recoveries, I could not personally attend the meetings.  I am
sure that they would have asked Dr.  Von Braun, and the others that you
listed were probably asked and may or may not have attended.  This is all I
know for sure.

3.  I did receive some official reports when I was in my office at the
Pentagon but all of these were left there as at the time we were never
supposed to take them out of the office.

4.  I do not recall receiving any photographs such as you request so I am
not in a position to answer.

5.  I have to make the same reply as on No.  4.

I recall the interview with Dr.  Brenner of the Canadian Embassy.  I think
the answers I gave him were the ones you listed.  Naturally, I was more
familiar with the subject matter under discussion, at that time.  actually,
I would have been able to give more specific answers had I attend- ed the
meetings concerning the subject.  You must understand that I took this
assignment as a private contribution.  We were called "dollar-a-year men".
My first responsibility was the maintenance of my own business activity so
that my participation was limited.

About the only thing I remember at this time is that certain materials
reported to have come from flying saucer crashes were extremely light and
very tough.  I am sure our laboratories analyzed them very carefully.

There were reports that instruments or people operating these machines were
also of very light weight, sufficient to withstand the tremendous
deceleration and acceleration associated with their machinery.  I remember
in talking with some of the people at the office that I got the impression
these "aliens" were constructed like certain insects we have observed on
earth, wherein because of the low mass the inertial forces involved in
operation of these instruments would be quite low.

I still do not know why the high order of classification has been given and
why the denial of the existence of these devices.

I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I suggest you get in touch
with the others who may be directly involved in this program.

                                    Sincerely yours,

                                      (SIGNATURE)

                                    Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher

P. S.  It occurs to me that Dr. Bush's name is inccorrect
       as you have it.  Please check the spelling.




JUNE 13, 1987

Dear Sirs,

Although I missed your very recent radio and tv shows, a friend suggested
that I write this letter and share my information with you.  I am fifty
year af age engineer that has worked in the private sector, as well as with
the government.

From 1975 to 1980, i was involved with several investigations having to do
with E.T.  material.  Even though the project was very well covered, I am
still very much surprised that Project Pluto and results have not surfaced
yet.

In as much as the project was handled by others, there was no question that
the government was in full control.  For security purposes, Project Pluto
had five levels.  Those who investigated one level had nothing to do with
the next, and would only turn in the results of data of these findings to
the next level, then go on to another area.

No one that I knew ever had the results of two levels at the same time.
There was only one very rare exception to the rule which took place in
1975, and was in fact my very first assignment with the project.  I was
employed by a non- government firm that of course was directly involved
with the government, and probably fronted for them on the projects.

I would assume that eventually government records could be made available
to the general public, but not from the private sector.  I'm not really
sure.  In any event, several others and myself were rushed to a rather
remote place in upstate Pennsylvannia.

We were informed that every thing was top secret, and had to remain that
way.  We were even housed in a hotel close by, and security people were
assigned to us.  Some type of aircraft had crashed in this area, and the
government felt that it would be easier and faster to do all of their
investigation right there rather than to move the remains of the wreck, and
whatever evidence the soil may contain.

The wreck site was rather difficult to get to, however, we turned it into a
construction site, clearing the area, and building two small and one very
large metal pre-fab buildings over and around the wreck.  Heavy equipment,
materials, and workers were flown in and out on a daily basis.

We were moved from the hotel to some mobile homes that were brought in for
us, and many more top level people who joined us.  I might add that the
local people who still lived some distance from the site, were led to
believe that a large private corporation was preparing to build an
electrical power supply for the area.  But it was off limits to everyone in
the area.

We were some of the first ones on the scene other than lots of security
people.  The wreck had already been covered by very large canvas blankets,
and large nets were tented over head to protect the site from any possible
air traffic.  I did manage to get a very good look at the wreck on several
occasions.  My first thoughts were that it may have been and experimental
air craft of our government, or perhaps the government of another.

It was later suggested to us that it was a new type of air craft of a
foreign government, and it was a super hush hush project.  That air craft
was nothing like I have ever seen or probably ever will again.

The crash site was also something quite different.  The disturbed soil was
about a hundred feet in diameter, although the craft was much larger in
length.  I only saw what appeared to be about two/thirds of the rear end,
and even that was about ten feet below the surface.  When it crashed on
about a 30 degree angle, it pushed all the earth back away from the craft
itself.  Almost as if the hole were made first, and then something half the
size was put in place.

My best thought of this rather strange hole is that some kind of magnetic
field had pushed all the earth away from the craft at impact.  It was
reasonable to assume that I was looking down at the rear end of the air
craft, yet there was nothing to indicate that it had any kind of engine as
we know it.  Not even one little opening.

I don't really like to use the term cigar, but since I could not see the
front part, it certainly appeared to have once been shaped like a large
cigar.  That's by best description.

If it was a craft from a foreign government, then we are in big trouble.  I
actually held one small portion of the wreck in my hand.  Incidently, there
was only a very small reading of radio waves in the area.  The area was
quite safe.  There was on the other hand, a great deal of free magnetic
energy in that area.  It was very difficult using our instruments.  It was
very difficult just to establish the correct time.  Every wrist watch was a
different time.

The piece of physical evidence that I held in my hand, was a material that
I really can't identify.  It may have been torn from the front of the craft
when it crashed.  A few of us compared thoughts as to what it might be, but
no one was really certain.  None of us had ever seen anything like it
before.  It was about one square foot and about an inch thick.  It weighed
almost nothing, and one had the feeling that it may blow away if you let go
of it and the wind increased.

It was the same color and texture of the large portion, so it was safe to
assume that it was part of the shell of the craft.  It weighed nowhere near
enough to be any metal that we had ever seen.  It even weighed less than
any plastic that I had seen of a similar size.

I tried to scratch it with a pocket knife, and even cut away a small piece
of the edge, but the knife did nothing to it.  The surface was clear as
glass, and stronger than anything we had ever seen.  It was like trying to
scratch the surface of glass with a feather.  Of course, we had to turn it
into the security people.

After the site was secure, the first groups that included myself were taken
away.  There was a very thorough strip search prior to us being given
jumpsuits, and put into a truck for the transportation to a waiting plane.
We were taken to another area and debriefed before we were allowed to
return to our normal way of life.

About three months later, a few of us returned to the site to remove the
buildings, fill up the hole, and generally put the area back into the same
shape as it may have been prior to the crash.  We went through the same
type of security search and debriefing as we had done the first time.
Whatever was left of the craft had been removed and sent to - unknown-.

Almost one year to the day, I was sent to another crash site.  Everything
was a repeat of the first time, except that there were six of us.  Four of
us were part of the first crash site, and the other two were new.  This
time the air craft was buried so deep into the lower side of a hill that we
could not get a good look at it.

The security arrangements were just about the same, and we constructed
similar buildings around it.  It was very close to a rerun of the first
crash site.  Only this time we were told, "as a matter of fact it was a top
secret experimental air craft that had crashed".  I could however, manage
to see the rear end of the craft.  It appeared to be the same type as the
first.  The code name of the project was Pluto, as it was the first also.
Incidently, that was in upstate New York, in 1976.  I do not know if there
were any "people" or life forms aboard.

Several years later, I had an occasion to be in the area of site #one.  The
bartender only recognized me because he brought in our first room service
the first night we stayed there.  There was no room service there, but he
made his one and only exception to the rule for us.  He asked me lots of
questions which of course had no answers for, nor would I give any.  He
told me that he heard that there were lots of medical people on the site.
He thought that rather odd for an electric power station.  He assumed that
there must have been some kind of an accident, or lots of waste material in
the area.  We let it go at that.

It appears that security was very good, and no one had any idea that an air
craft had crashed there.  I suspect that the air craft was fifty feet in
diameter and as long as two hundred feet.  I could be wrong in the length.
As I recall the under portion of air craft #one had more of a flat surface.
It was difficult to see, but I do recall the difference in the portion of
the under surface that I could see.

There were also a few interesting grooves on the top and side areas about
twenty feet long.  We had speculated that either a steering fin had been
attached, or a place where it could slide through from the inside, similar
to the type of system used to lower wheels on any air craft.  First
speculation!

In 1978, I was again sent to a crash site.  We arrived the day after the
security people.  This time the air craft landed in a lake in upstate
Pennsylvannia.  We went through the same motions, and built several
buildings on the edge of the lake to house the craft, once it was removed
from the water.  Lots of Navy equipment was flown in, and there were divers
everywhere.  The same magnetic field was present as in the first two
incidents.  There was no air craft.

I spent three weeks there in the event that the buildings had to be
adjusted.  It seems that the divers had located the exact spot that the air
craft had rested on the bottom, but it was gone.  There was lots of
evidence on the beach that something very large had crashed into the lake
causing the water of the lake to splash ashore, over thirty feet, and what
was normally a rather clean lake, was suddenly a very large mudhole.  After
three weeks, I left and was subjected to the same type of security as the
first two times.

I didn't have to return to dismantle the pre-fab buildings.  I would think
that it was done by others very soon there after.  There was some thoughts
at first that the craft may have been buried under the bottom of the lake,
but by this time, we knew enough about the craft to know if that were the
case.  It was not - it just vanished.  Perhaps it was not damaged and
managed to fly away.  That may sound silly, but I believe that it is a
reasonable conclusion.  There was some damage to the immediate area.  Six
large electrical transformers, and some other equipment were burnt out and
had to be replaced by the electric company.  The government took the
electrical equipment and had it flown somewhere else.

In 1979, I was sent to the shores of southern Texas.  The same type of
situation, all the evidence led us to believe that whatever it was, it
landed in the water and flew away.

I understand that over twenty men actually saw it go into the water, but
the days that followed bore no fruit.  The Navy divers had a good deal of
evidence that some thing has made a very large recent gash on the bottom in
about seventy feet of water.

The very same magnetic field was present, and every thing electrical in the
immediate area was burnt out.  By the end of 1979, I was sent back to the
very same lake in Northern Pennsylvannia.  It was a duplicate incident as
the first time we were there.  It had landed in the lake and was gone.  The
same electrical items were again destroyed, and the same magnetic field was
evident.  I really have no physical evidence to prove one way or another
the identification of the air craft.  I can only examine what I have
experienced and wonder!  My opinion is another story.

I don't really believe that the air craft belongs to our Government or any
other government on this earth.  From 1975 to present, we would certainly
have seen some kind of revolutionary change in our air craft.  To date, I
still have not seen any material to even slightly match the very first
piece of physical evidence that I had examined.  That alone, would have
made a fantastic change in the material we use today.  No corporation or
government could keep that kind of material quality under cover for over
twelve years.  If they had invented it.

After twelve years we probably don't even know what it is, or how to make
it.  I am positive that at the very least, they have two of the air craft
hidden somewhere, and probably have learned very little from them, other
than they exist.  However, the company that I was associated with has made
some gigantic leaps forward in electromagnetic forces.  Perhaps they did
learn something from it after all.  If we wish to assume that these air
craft are not from this earth, and are from way out there in space, then my
goodness, the planet must be full of visitors.  The air traffic alone, must
be fantastic.  It seems to me that who ever they are they have found it
easier to land in the water rather than on our dry earth.  Perhaps it was
designed to land on water or a very flat surface.

I have never really had any feelings one way or another abvout E.T.'s.  I
have elected to deal with hard evidence only, that was prior to 1975.  For
those few years afterwards, I could not help but interject some opinions
into my brain.

As I would rather deal with hard evidence only, I am forced to put all of
this on a scale, and take a good hard look at the tilting of the scales.
There is far too much here to ignore.  I must confess that I had some what
leaned towards the experimental air craft story.  But as the years passed,
it became evident that was only a cover story.  Too much time has past, and
our air craft are pretty much the same.  There is no doubt in my mind that
we as well as others, are constantly experimenting with new air craft,
however at this late date, I am reasonably certain that those crash sites
were not made by anything that we are familiar with, and then again, I
still kind of reserve that possibility.  As you can see, I have many mixed
feelings about it.

Im addition, I have no way of knowing if I had been on every crash site
that occurred.  There may have been many more during that period and many
more since then.

I really don't know if any one had ever been removed from the two wrecks,
that I had personally seen.  Perhaps they were only mechanical flights.
Perhaps the medical people were only there - just in case.  And/or to test
the wreck for any form of unknown bacteria prior to removing it.  Their
being present is not really evidence that a life form was found.  It could
go either way.

I just cannot imagine our government or any other keeping it such a secret,
if in fact, they were not from this earth.  It really serves no purpose
that I can understand.  Also appears to me that if they were from somewhere
else that they mean us no harm.  I would suspect that after all these
years, if they meant us harm, we would most certainly know about it by now.

Even if they were only mechanical flights, the fact that they could get
here at all...so many times, is certainly a feat in itself, and worthy of
publication.

If the fact that they managed to get here at all, and the physical
evidence, the material that I examined is any indication of how intelligent
they are, then I would feel safe in assuming that they have left us in the
stone age.  On a personal level, I have no fear of meeting or contacting
such a being.  In fact, the very first time I saw the craft, the thought
had entered my mind.  I didn't expect a being like Frankenstein to come
walking out.  And for a short time I had wondered what I would do if
suddenly a door opened and some form of life came out.  What the heck!  If
it didn't look too bad I may have walked up and said hello just as I would
to anyone else who may visit me.

I would think that I would be more afraid of picking up some unknown form
of bacteria than I would be of the life form itself.  Well, today we can
pick up AIDS...so, as I put the germ fear aside.  Yes.  I would certainly
try to be friendly once the first wave of fear passed me by.  What I fear
more than any visitor is that some farmer is going to get them with a shot
gun and do more damage than we can or want to handle.  Also, some cowboy
policeman trying to shoot his first space man.  Because of that I should
think that our government would try to edcucate us as to the proper way to
handle any such situation.  That little bit of awareness and education may
save our planet form destruction.  If there is clear evidence that we are
being visited by intelligent life forms, then the heads of our government
are by far crazier than I had imagined by trying to keep it a secret.  The
damage of hostile action on our part may not be repairable.

I'm sorry but I am not familiar with your group, but my friend was very
impressed by your speaker on tv as well as the radio.  Because of that I am
trying to share whatever information and evidence that I have which is in
fact all first hand data.  I have illustrated the evidence and information
as it happened, and made note of where I speculated.

There are many items that I have not included in this letter, only because
this could turn into forty or fifty pages.  At some time in the future, if
you wish, I will take my time and write every detail that I can remember.
I'll also put it on tape for clarification.

I was told that you plan to open another branch in the future in the
Philadelphia area?  If that's the case I would certainly be interested in
some form of association with your group.  I belong to no other and never
had any desire to, however, I understand that you are serious people, and
worthy of respect.  I regard the opinion of my friend very highly.  He is a
professor of physics, and himself a very serious person.  I would
appreciate your sending me some literature about your group, and your plans
if any to enter the Philadelphia area.  I think that you have selected a
very good location.  There are many very serious people there and a good
solid investigation group would be quite welcome.  I'm certain that once
you entered the area the support group would be fantastic.  If you selected
Philadelphia, then the assured that you picked the right city for another
branch.

Incidently, my experience in the E.T.  world ended in 1980, when I changed
positions.  Have you had any reports of material that I examined belonging
to an air craft from others?  And the ever present magnetic field, do you
gave any reports from others similar to that?  I have heard of others
saying that they have seen a cigar shaped air craft, and I feel rather
silly.  Perhaps that's not the word.  But, to the best of my knowledge and
sight, it appeared to be just that.  A cigar shaped craft.  Please note
that in both cases, I had never seen the front of the craft.  i can only
assume that the design was constant.  I'll close for now and hope to hear
from you.  I remain, (AUTHORS NAME CENSORED)





April 20, 1980

______________
______________
______________

Dear ________,

I read your letter of the 13th with considerable interest.  It seems
difficult to believe that I have finally found someone that is as
interested in finding out the true story of Project Red Light.

First of all I would like to address the specific points requested in your
letter, and then I will expand on them and other items as well.

1.  I did not know about the UFO movie prior to reading your article.

2.  I found out the name of Project Redlight almost by accident.  I was
____________________________________________ in a warehouse at Area 51 and
saw a large number of wooden shipping crates (the type made with tongue and
groove lumber and used for shipping heavy items securely) with the code
name "Project Redlight" written with grease pen or felt tip pen.  Also on
the crates was a stencilled "Edwards AFB" in standard military type of
letters.

3.  The article in Readers Digest that I referred to was about a UFO that
flew over the US from the East Coast to where it "blew up" somewhere over
eastern Nevada.  The article did not state that the pilot was human.  I'm
sorry for the confusion on this.  The reason that I felt that this Digest
article is important is that I remember a period shortly after the date
given in the article (I don't reemember what it was, sorry) everything came
to a screeching halt at Area 51.  As you can see, I am just putting two and
two together, but I am satisfied that the UFO of the Digest article and the
UFO of Project Redlight are/were one and the same.

Now for some additional information that has come to mind since I talked to
you.

Your report about the motorcycle riders is interesting.  I can remember
hearing similar rumors while I worked on the test site and I would not
doubt the authenticity of your report.  The security force at Area 51 while
I serviced the Area were heavily armed and I considered them dangerous.
There were several times that I was in the wrong place at the right time
and had it not been provable that i was not snooping or trying to snoop I
really don't think I would be writing you this letter.  Incidentally, the
security wore standard air police uniforms but looked nothing like any of
the AP's I have ever dealt with.  They were all in their 30's to 40's, and
looked like dock workers.  Also as I remember it the only markings they
wore just said Air Police.  They did not have Nellis AFB on anything but a
few of their vehicles, and I believe that they were assigned to Edwards
rather than Nellis.  The reason I remember this is that it seemed strange
to me during my first trip to Area 51 I noticed a slight difference in
their uniforms from Nellis AP's, and I over- heard a couple of remarks that
indicated they were from Edwards.

Another interesting point.  I was accustomed to going out onto the Bombing
and Gunnery Range and had a number at Indian springs (Nellis AFB maintains
a forward area base there) to call to get clearence onto the range.  This
was SOP.  However, in the case of Area 51 I called the security office at
Area 51.  This indicated to me that Nellis AFB had nothing to do with the
operation of Area 51.  Also the designation of Area 51 was classified TOP
SECRET.

Incidentally, although I carried a "Q" clearance from the Atomic Energy
Commission as well as an inter agency TOP SECRET clearance I was
investigated for a special Air Force TOP SECRET clearance in order to
operate in Area 51.

At this point I am going to give you just a series of disconnected
observations that I made in the hope that they may tie in with something
you or Len Stringfield may know.

1.  I saw some crates being unloaded from a cargo plane.  The aircraft was
a super constellation with standard markings and had nothing to indicate it
had any military connections.  There was no airline name on it.

2.  I only saw the UFO one time.  It was on the ground and partly hidden
behind a building and at first I thought it was a small private aircraft
until I noticed it had no wings or tail.  I was probably 1/2 mile or
farther from it but I would guess it 20 to 30 feet in diameter and sort of
a pewter color rather than bright polished aluminium.

3.  The reason I know it flew silently is I was present on a number of
occasions when it was landing or taking off (I was always taken inside and
out of view of the runway at these times) and at no time did I hear
anything that sounded like a conventional or any other kind of engine.

4.  I was working on their ______ several times when they just_______.
However since I was there to work on them I really didn't think anything
about it.  Oh yes, they would ___________ again just as suddenly.  Also
there were a number of times that I was called out to work on ______ and
could not find anything wrong with it.  5.  On of the men that I knew were
"Pilots" was just slightly larger than me.

6.  Most of the test flights occurred in the daytime rather than at night.

7.  The radio frequency they used at that time was in the regular
commercial VHF band and was a simplex frequency.  At one time I had the
Freq.  written down but I have no idea now what it was.  Anyway, i really
think that someone with a scanner could pick them up if they were to park
on the road to the east of the test site and use some kind of directional
antenna.

8.  Before I send this letter I will try to gey a USC&GS map of the area
and will mark the location of Area 51 on it.

9.  There was a Radar Station at the north end of the test site near the
town of Tonopah, Nevada.  A fellow from my home town of _______,________
was an operator there.  His name is __________ __________ .  We were
talking about the test site one day when he mentioned that he was always
picking up UFO's over the test site but was told to ignore them.  I
remember him telling about one that he picked up on the edge of his RBI on
the first revolution was directly overhead on the second pass and was just
going off the scope on the third revolution of the antenna.

10.  For some reason I seem to remember that the Redlight is spelled
Redlight i.e.  all one word.

11.  I always had the impression that the flight test area was from Area 51
north because there is a natural valley that runs in that direction for 200
miles or so.  Also the area to the south was more populated.  Also I
entered Area 51 from the north and there were a couple of times that i was
questioned about whether I had 'noticed' anything on the way in.

12.  I was reminded constantly that no matter what I saw I could be in
serious trouble if I ever talked about any of it.  I can't stress how much
how tight the security was, it was almost paranoid.

13.  I don't think this has anything to do with Redlight, but I remember
when I was a kid back in the 40's, on two occasions I saw a story about
UFO's included in the weekly Pathe' News.  There was one story about a UFO
that had crashed somewhere and another story about a UFO thaqt was found in
some farmers barn.  Both of those stories were given the usual news
treatment.  The reason that I am mentioning this is that I recently read an
article about the entire library of Pathe' movie film being given to an
institution of some kind which would make it available to researchers.  i
am certain that if these film clips could be located they would be useful.
Realizing that these stories appeared prior to Blue Book and at a time of
Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, there is probably a better than even chance
that they can be located by someone willing to spend the time viewing a few
hundred hours of old news film.

14.  More on item #7, the air-to-ground frequencies were in the 200mc
range.  I believe there is a standard set of air-to -ground or government
frequencies either just above or just below the 220mc ham band and their
communications were on those frequencies.

Well there you have it ______.  I hope that I have shed some light on some
dark areas.  Should any other thoughts come to mind that I feel may be
important I will try to catch you on the ____________.  Hopefully if I can
get things settled down to a dull roar I will be able to start checking in
on a more permanent basis.  Of course, should you have any questions or
want further clarification please contact me.


                                (signature)

NOTE...Any information that would identify the sender or recipient of this
letter has been deleted in order to protect them.  The original document
contains both names and addresses but will be given to no one without their
permission.  The reason Len Stringfields name is left in is that he is a
known UFO researcher and it cannot hurt him as he was not the sender or
receiver.

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