"There should be something to express before freedom of expression ..."

Interview with Abdul Samay Hamed
Kabul, January 2004, Iqtedar-e-Milli Weekly (Translated by Waheed Warasta)

Q: You received a 2003 International Press Freedom Award from CPJ. What do you think; is there freedom of expression in our country?

A: There should be something to express before speaking about freedom of expression! I am joking, but this is half of the issue. Yes, we can see the signs of freedom of expression in Afghanistan but it takes time to Feel it. Now we see a “rush-hour -media activity”, every body wants to have a publication or radio. Some persons have two or three so-called free publications and try to find funding to start another one. The warlords are Obviously behind some Completely free media. Yes, Why are you laughing. When some wrong person starts a good behaviour, our people say: “There is a small bowl under the big one” (There are wheels within wheels). Now, we can see a big bowl under the small ones. Political merchants are trying to start free media and it is easy for them, because their pockets are not like their heads.

Q: Empty?

A: Don’t try to interpret my friend, otherwise my Head will suffer. Ok, I said, we have a “rush-hour media” now and thank God none of them is affiliated, all publications have the same published-identity: Free and non-affiliated. It is true; they all are free, but free from freedom!

On the other hand, most of the publications are publishing comments on current situation, but if we read the articles carefully, we can se affiliation. In today’s Afghanistan there is triangle of power: The Mujahiddin who hold some of the key governmental positions, supporters of the ex-king, and supporters of Karzai. The affiliated media to them write against each other and it makes a False Free Media Field. Next to no body criticizes the situation independently.

Every day a premature publication and a malformed radio is born and starts dancing

in the air. Titles of most of the publications start or end by the word NEW or new terms, but as I said they haven’t got new things to express. There is just one difference between the content of most publications: The Titles!

We should find something to express, it’s very important for the present and coming situation of our country. There is just a tedious marching of the words for the world. Afghan intellectuals have a completely incomplete Dictionary. Their dictionary has only got the terms, not the meanings.

Q: What do you think about the duty of intellectuals in Afghanistan?

A: A lot of intellectuals in Afghanistan call people to dive in an empty swimming pool. They are talking about democracy and civil society, when these terms are still not so clear to themselves. In a country with a long history of despotism, even talking about the terms such as democracy is rather great, but the main aim of intellectuals is deep understanding and clear explanation of the facts. Democracy is not an ice-cream machine which can be imported from other countries. We can try to pave the road for democracy. First of all we should fill the swimming pool! Paving the road for democracy needs a hard cultural and social effort. Otherwise “Afghan democracy” will be like wearing shorts over a pair of traditional trousers. I have had a lot of discussions with Afghan intellectuals; most of them have just heard some modern terms. For example, they have heard the term of women’s rights, and they are writing about it without deep thinking. They write that “The women’s rights is good…women have a right… They should take their rights…”. Most of their articles are poetical verses and literary sentimental writings on women’s rights. It is Ok, but what are the main challenges ahead of women in Afghanistan? How can they approach their rights? What are the ways to change the situation? We should change ourselves first. Now, women’s rights is what we want for others wives!

Q: What should we Afghans do to change the situation?

A: First, we should make “We-Afghans”. We should make the “WE”, The great WE. In our society, all the ethic groups are living together and are related to each other. It is the deceitful politicians who are trying to raise an ethnic struggle to reach to or remain in power. After the first fall of the Taliban in Mazar-i-Sharif in 1997, when Wahdat party (most of them are Hazaras) took the city, local Pashtuns were afraid of being killed or looted, but the local Hazaras gave them refuge in their houses. When the Taliban occupied the city again, it was the local Pashtuns who protected Hazaras.

Political corrupt leaders are using the word of “people’s demand” as a shield for protecting themselves or to access to their objectives. There are at least two or three music shops in each street, but the leaders are saying that the people don’t want music.

Q: In your opinion, What is the main duty of intellectuals?

A: In Afghanistan, there are a lot of Thoughts but there is not much Thinking. We have got some Answers without asking a Question. We are full of Answers. Therefore, we don’t tolerate others. We know their Answers and we know that theirs don’t match ours. We are not ready to be asked questions and even we don’t ask questions from ourselves. Therefore, those with different answers are considered as our enemies and we Try to remove Enemies, not Enmity. When you ask an Afghan intellectual to meet a new person, he or she asks about his or her background. If the person has a different background to them, they will not be ready for the meeting. Therefore, I think our main problem is shortage of THINKING and the most important duty of real intellectuals is to make people think.

Q: Some people say that the atmosphere is not suitable for changing. What do you think?

A: Who should make this atmosphere. It is our duty and responsibility and it is the real time to do this great job. We have experienced the reddest political communism and the darkest fundamentalism in Afghanistan. Now, our people are prepared to move from a closed society towards an open one. When I go to a remote village, the people ask for building of schools, even a lot of the poor ones are ready to pay fee to educate their daughters. It is a great change! In fact a fantastic progress. Where are you my dear Intellectual?

Q: What do you think about Pluralism?

A: As I said, we have got some thoughts and we are suffering from lack of thinking. For pluralism, we need thinking. Pluralism in Afghanistan means “the union of failed politicians” or “Several parties under the control of one party”. No one tolerates others. We should count on ourselves. Unfortunately, we are always waiting for others to bring changes.

Q: What about writers? Their duty in the current situation?

A: I consider writers in Afghanistan as “double intellectuals”, because they can create culture and they can play a significant role to open the society and to pave the way for civil society. They should not dance at the drumbeat of power and they should not play drum for power’s dance.

Q: Would you tell me about the experience of free press in Afghanistan?

A: In the past two decades, we experienced free press twice. When the KHAD president of the communists’ despotic regime Najibullah became the president of Afghanistan, some free publications started and free writers published their books and articles. During the dark and bloody period of street fighters, there was a field for free press among the fragments of power. Now we are trying to practice free press for the third time in the last twenty years. It is worth mentioning that we have practiced freedom of expression more in Kabul. Even now, there is a partial “Kabul freedom of expression!”. In most of the provinces there is neither free press nor even affiliated media. Last year, one day in a city in the north of Afghanistan, I was sitting in a car reading a newspaper. A young boy came and looked at me curiously. I showed him the newspaper and asked: “Have you ever seen something like this, here before?” He answered: “Yes, it is a torn shopping bag!” On the other hand, there is no proper understanding of freedom of expression even among our writers and journalists. In comparison to the past, the current situation is better for free press, but I think we have had a few cases of “ Censorship of writings” in Afghanistan. We have always had “Censorship of Writers”. If a writer is famous for writing independently, there is no place for him. Therefore, I consider Freedom of expression as “a right to write or express Effective comments”. If a government respects this kind of freedom, we can call it a Democratic government, because a democratic government tolerates challenges. It is a dream for us, but we shouldn’t forget it. Even in the democratic countries it is civil society which guarantees democracy. No one in power will be ready to accept challenges in Afghanistan. It is of no use to wait for the government to accept free media. We can guarantee the future just by having a live civil society. Since the culture of democracy has not been experienced in our country, we will face a lot of challenges in the future. In the current time, the power is fragmented; that’s why we see a partial tolerance. Tomorrow, the only guarantees for our free work are courage of free writers and journalists, and support of international independent human rights organisations and writers and journalists’ foundations, because in our country there have been two main powers: tribal power and religious power. Although these two powers have had internal struggles, but in case of facing a third power, they have reacted jointly against it.

Q: You are working to defend free press, tell me something about these activities?

A: I am trying to defend “the right to write” not the “writing”.Many journalists in Afghanistan don’t understand this issue deeply. When I ask them to sign a protest letter to defend a writer, they first raise some private issues about the writer’s personality and then come to an agreement. We are not wise enough to understand our fundamental common interests. We have to defend the right of free expression; it is our master key to open the doors to a brilliant future.

Q: How do you deal with the current events and changes?

A: We have to choose between Grey and Black and try to change the grey to white. Most of the Afghan political activists are thinking that the only way to change the situation is to be a part of the current power. For example, they think that everything has been arranged in the “Upper levels”. It is true that some of the irregularities are regulated there, but we shouldn’t forget ourselves. It is we -the Afghan intellectuals- who have the main role to direct the future. Let’s come a degree lower; an international organisation gives fund to start a magazine, then it is an Afghan writer who makes the magazine and chooses its content. Most of the editors just try to fill the columns and show to the donors. In a country with a high range of illiteracy, there are at least two pages in English in most of the publications.

Q: Is the Gun the only problem?

A: Our main problem is not the rule of gun; it is the rule of intolerance. We can’t tolerate others, even our own children. Our treat them with intolerance, we threaten them, we hit them and we don’t consider them as humans. The writers don’t tolerate each other. We should practice tolerance and we should make a mechanism to remove the crisis of lack of trust among us. Why hasn’t the disarmament process succeeded? It may have many reasons, but one of the important reasons is lack of tolerance. We intellectuals should start this tolerance among ourselves first, because we are the main cause of this tragedy.

Q: We have heard that there is more insecurity -for example theft cases- in the West than Afghanistan. Is that true?

A: Yes, but in Afghanistan the police itself is the thief.

Q: Some writers are claiming that we have no intellectuals in Afghanistan, what do say on this?

A: The live reason for existence of intellectuals in Afghanistan is that claim itself, because only an intellectual can claim that we don’t have Intellectuals in Afghanistan!!! Yes, these kinds of claims are mostly excuses for our laziness. It was our intellectuals who were the actors behind the curtain of the tragicomedy in Afghanistan and it should be them to compensate.

Q: Is the fundamentalism of warlords a great challenge for democracy?

A: I think the warlords in Afghanistan aren’t Fundamentalists. We use the word Fundamentalist for a person who has a closed world-outlook and wants to make a society in that frame. The warlords here haven’t tried to make a society. They destroyed the country to reach to power and loot the people. Even if a person has a closed outlook it means that he believes in a value from his own view, and we can try to discuss with him.

On the other hand, I think we all are more or less fundamentalists. I mentioned that we are full of answers. Very few intellectuals think they might be mistaken in their comments.

Q: We see a lot of international organisations in Afghanistan. What are your comments about them?

A: International organisations? They should first find wise consultants. Most of them just try to find fluent English speakers, not experts. If a health organisation employs a doctor, the priority is for an English speaking doctor, not for a good doctor who can’t speak English properly. It was just an example. Since these organisations have an important role to guarantee democracy, there should be an effective cooperation between them and Afghan intellectuals. It might be true that some of them have special political interests here in our land, but we should approach to take advantage for interests of our country. It is a great chance for us, but I emphasize again on making a great WE. It is always said that our full political predestination is planned by others. It is another excuse for our laziness, why should it be like this, where are WE? If there isn’t a WE, it is evident that others will write the fate of our country. I think in each part of history, there was a super power that wanted to control other powers, the first option for them might be to have a “servant”, but the second option is to have an “ally”. It depends on the power of WE in a country.

Q: So, If I ask… When will Afghanistan be developed?

A: When a journalist doesn’t ask a poet this kind of questions! Yes, it is true! I can see a “Despotism of poetry” in Afghanistan, even a medical publication has two pages for poetry. A good politician is a person who can speak eloquently. Here, the precondition for expressing an idea is to have literary words. If a person can’t play with words, he will not be ready to talk about common things. It is a big problem. People should be encouraged to express their ideas; otherwise others will talk on behalf of them.

Q: How can we change the situation?

A: To change the situation, minds should be changed. Six years ago, when we travelled from Mazar to Pulikhumri, it took one day. There were a lot of armed thieves along the highway. Two friends of mine had been killed along that way. Now, it takes just two and a half hours. What is the reason for this change? Aren’t the armed looters still there? Have they received any money from the government? Have they found jobs? Has the Kabul-government any influence in the rural areas? In my opinion, we have a NO answer for the questions. The minds are changed. The “main subject” is changed.

Q:The main subject makes behaviours …

Yes it is true, when the Taliban stoned a woman to death, hundreds of the people gathered to watch and a number of them took part in the stoning. In that time, the “main subject” was like that. People who once watched Satellite channels behind the dark curtains, had come to participate in the killing. It is the effect of “the main subject”, general situation or the palpitations make this SUBJECT. If there is no thinking, no great changes will happen. For example, now, Elections is on the way, politicians will say “Give your vote for X or Y”, but an intellectual says “Give your vote”. It is a great function. Intellectuals make people think. They destroy “Meta narratives”.

Q: You have been both in Afghanistan and in Europe, what is the main difference between Afghans? …here and there …

A: It is difficult to say. I have met some Afghans in a remote city inside the country who understand democracy better than an Afghan in Denmark. In contrast I have seen a person in Denmark who knew our society better than the one here. I request the Afghans abroad to come home, even for a short visit. It will have a clear role to understand each other.

Q: What is your suggestion for ethnic unity?

A: My suggestion is construction of roads. We have become strangers or enemies for each other, because we haven’t met each other. There should be physical bridges between us as well as cultural bridges. It is important to have balanced development. As I said before, in places where several tribes live together, we can see a social unity…I mentioned the example about Mazar city…

Q: May I have your comments about the constitutional Loya Jirga?

A: “Loya Jirga” was like a football game without a ball. The constitution helped to solve the ball-problem. It provided one ball for each player!

Q: You have a lot of activities, how can you handle these …are you a poet or a doctor?

If a person has several activities, we call him “a person with one head and one thousand dreams”. I have one dream and one thousands heads and for your kind information, I have to say again that I am a doctor among the poets and a poet among the doctors!

END

Abdul Samay Hamed is an Afghan independent writer, publisher, political cartoonist and poet who received an International Press Freedom Award from the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) in November 2003. Comments and questions: samay_hamed1@hotmail.com