Oh God - PLEASE - NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!!!!!!!

Abbie's Story - Email: acello@ix.netcom.com

Why did this penticostal evangelical return to

the Catholic Church????

Have I utterly lost my mind? Is this just one long senior moment? The good news is no. I'm doing this webpage for friends and relatives to answer the same questions that I'd have hurled (and have at times) at any friend who had made the same decision. About 2 years ago I ran into friend Laurel at the grocery store, a fellow Protestant charismatic who had not been at our charismatic church for awhile, so I asked her where she was fellowshiping. She paused, cleared her throat and then told me she was attending the Catholic Church. I was stunned and honestly grieved. I said something banal and stupid like "well, there are probably some other born again believers there" and made a quick exit. Then I went home and prayed for the poor misguided woman. I knew that she loved the Lord, was a gifted Bible teacher and her decision made no sense.

As my close friends know, I was saved through the Word of God and that has always been my rock and the center of my Christian walk. I love my Protestant heritage and treasure the wonderful people who have taught and nurtured me, admonished me and offered many soft shoulders through the years. This decision does not constitute a criticism of Protestantism - rather, the Catholic church is, for me, the fullness and has so completely filled in and satisfied that big chasm in my spirit that has been restless for many years. I converted to Catholicism in 1969 in San Francisco because it was the only church that felt like a church, and I felt drawn there - it was no more theologically profound than that. Two years later I "got saved" through Shalom Ministries and my memories with that wonderful ministry and the Biblical foundation I received there are among my most treasured. I left the Catholic Church which, by that time felt like a bore and appeared to be in error, and for 30 years have loved Jesus and His precious Word and been in and out of ministry, as an Assembly of God pastor's wife and on the mission field for 12 years, content with my Protestant faith. An obvious comment from Protestant friends is "I'm happy right where I am" - and that's great. As Christians, our main concern is that others come to know Jesus and be ready to meet Him when the time comes. God clearly has annointed and blessed the Protestant Church - the fruit in soul winning has been huge and has put the Catholic Church to shame at times, though thank God there is a new evangelistic thrust in Catholicism. This is my own insight and I hope it's not goofy theology - I think God has had throughout time a tendency to engage in a Plan A - Plan B strategy. I believe it was His intent for the Jewish people to recognize and embrace their Messiah, Jesus, and to lead the mission effort in winning the lost, including the Gentiles, but many of them have rejected Him, so God went with Plan B - save and annoint the Gentiles and let them do it and eventually the chosen people would be drawn to Messiah as well. The Church for 1500 years was clearly Catholic. They gave us the Scriptures and preserved them. I believe it is the Church Jesus and then His Apostles established, and it was Jesus' prayer in John 17 that we all be one in mind and purpose. But the Church, being both human and divine, sinned and needed reformation. But rather than reform from within, some chose to pull out, and the Protestant movement was born - Plan B. There has also been sin in the camp within Protestantism, and with over 26,000 different denominations, all claiming to be inspired and yet differing in some major areas, there seems to be ongoing schism. Where is the authority? It's basically in Jesus and His Word and yet Scripture tells us in I Tim. 3:15 that it's the CHURCH that is the pillar and foundation of the truth - so which church??? Who's authority??? For me, in this decision to return to Catholicism, I have experienced a returning to my roots - it's ancient but new, filled with mystery but so clear and I wonder why it's taken so many years to see. There's been a wonderful renewal in my spirit as I'm seeing Scripture for the first time through Catholic eyes - it's as if whole new layers are opening up.Why is something once so boring and empty now so full and brimming over with awe and so utterly fullfilling? It could only be a "God thing" in my journey.

Then how did this happen?

For the past two years I've experienced a vague restlessness at church that I couldn't source or seem to remedy. One Sunday I came home after service so frustrated and not understanding quite why. I took out our local phone book, opened the yellow pages to "Churches, Charismatic" laid hands on the book and prayed "Lord - where????" - not realizing of course that the Catholic Churches were listed on those same pages!!!

I'm a news junkie and Fox News Channel is my favorite. That's ch. 46 here in Santa Fe. Since I don't like watching the ads, I channel surf or mute when they come on and one night surfed one channel down to 45 (now 52) and there was this cute nun, Mother Angelica, teaching the Bible. Back to 46. Next ad, back to 45 - just out of curiosity. This went on for a few days and then one day I forgot to turn back to the news. Oh no. Eventually I began to locate some favorite shows on that Global Catholic Network (EWTN) - the Journey Home hosted by a former Presbyterian pastor, where each week a different convert from various Protestant backgrounds gives a testimony of his or her journey into Catholicism (Fri. nights at 6 pm, channel 52), Life on the Rock, hosted by a former Charismatic Protestant pastor, a wonderful outreach to young people (Thursday nights 6 pm), Household of Faith, two former evangelical missionaries sharing over coffee each week their journey into Catholicism and the wrenching struggles and joys that we converts have come to know so well (Wednesday nights 8 pm), programs explaining the Catechism, and some of the most profound Bible studies I've ever heard. EWTN is largely charismatic and Biblical, so I felt very much at home there except for some of the predictable doctrinal chestnuts that bother most Protestants. I began learning about the early Church Fathers who were directly discipled under the Apostles (and how very Catholic they were!), the amazing lives of many of the saints who have gone before us, and lives of the martyrs. I located some great Catholic websites and have included a few of the links at the bottom of this page, subscribed to 2 evangelical Catholic apologetic (defending the faith through Scripture and early church history) magazines (Envoy and This Rock), and began to gather a library of books and tapes.Many of these websites have been established to help orient and educate the literally thousands of evangelicals and charismatics who are pouring into the Catholic Church at this time - it's a truely remarkable movement. I conveniently got very sick over the holidays last Christmas (1998) and mysteriously had no clients for 6 weeks and so put myself through a sabbatical, reading for 8 to 10 hours a day with a bottle of eye drops in my bathrobe pocket! There were plenty of tears - I fought with God, raged at some of what I was reading, lost sleep, wrote testy emails to online apologists, dove into my concordance and Commentaries, checked out the arguements and searched the Scriptures trying my best to refute what I was learning - and kept loosing - my own agony and ecstacy.I remember one night saying to the Lord "PLEASE, NOT the Catholic Church!!!! Tell me this isn't YOU doing this!" I was at once repelled and drawn, and determined that unless I could become convinced that what I was hearing was the truth, Biblically, I wanted nothing to do with it. I'm more concerned with truth than with how a church service feels or simply staying with what is cozy and familiar, and so kept on studying, and continued to "double dip" at both my Protestant church and Mass.By now it was early February of '99 and the day came when I had to call Laurel to apologize for my arrogance the year before and to tell her I suspected the Lord might be moving me in the same direction. She said "I'll put my books in a brown paper bag and be right over!" And so the journey kicked into full gear, back peddling and lurching my way into "Mother Church". One Sunday at the Protestant service an invitation was made to the congregation to join the elders on a weekend missions trip to Mexico, doing door-to-door evangelization, (i.e. inviting Mexican Catholics to the Protestant church) and I sat there in a back pew realizing that were I to go on that trip, I'd be going as a stealth Catholic, door-to-door, sharing with the people the wonders of their Catholic faith through Scripture, and I realized in that moment I'd fallen over the edge and was no longer a Protestant.I re-entered officially last Easter. I've loved Jesus for years, but this is the first time I've been so in love with the Church. Recently our Parish Priest asked Laurel and me to team teach a doctrines of the faith Bible study which will be open to all the Parishes in Santa Fe. It will be just a short two part beginning, but we are thrilled, excited, humbled, and, as Laurel observed, hyperventillating, at the chance to share with fellow Catholics our joy and some of what we have learned. All glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to offer just a few mini defenses for some of Catholic doctrine. Books have been written on each one of them and I will recommend a few here for any of you who might like to dig deeper. The web links at the bottom of this page contain excellent and catagorized info. as well. The first book I read, in paperback and edited by Patrick Madrid is "Surprised by Truth" a collection of 11 testimonies of former Protestants who have converted to Catholicism - a short read that I absolutely couldn't put down. The next one I read was "Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic" by Currie, also a convert - the title made me so mad, but I read it anyway and loved it. Crossing the Tiber is also good, by Stephen Ray, a former Baptist.

The doctrines that gave me the most trouble were the Papacy, Purgatory, the communion of saints, including relics, etc., indulgences, the priesthood, and anything to do with Mary - in fact she was by far the biggest stumbling block, and so I have done more study in that area than any other. I've always believed in the Real Presence in the bread and wine and wondered how anyone reading John ch. 6 could believe otherwise, so that wasn't a problem. I almost hesitate to launch into any explaination because it will be brief and so runs the risk of being misunderstood, but the websites "Biblical Evidence for Catholicism" and "Catholic answers" are my favorite resources and go in depth on all of these doctrines and do a far better job than I ever could, so you can delve if you want to. The links are at the end of this page.

The Papacy and Church Authority - this, in my opinion must be the first issue, for if the Catholic church is the Church established by Jesus and the Apostles and if there is something valid to apostolic authority, then the other doctrines begin to fall more easily into place, though I had to search out each one. As a Protestant it was a given that Catholics were wrong about the Papacy, and I've heard the Catholic Church referred to as the Whore of Babylon and the Pope as the Antichrist, so I was more than leery. One of the focal scriptures for me was Matt. 16:13-19 (the Gospel of Matthew was originally written in Aramiac and later translated into Greek) where Jesus said to Peter "Thou art Peter (Greek, Petros = small rock) and upon this rock (Greek, Petra = large rock) I will build my church - the Protestant interpretation being that the church was not built upon Peter and apostolic authority but upon either Jesus or Peter's faith. But Jesus wan't speaking Greek. He spoke Aramaic, and there is only one word for rock in Aramaic and that's Kepha, rock. When translated into Greek where nouns take either a masculine or feminine ending, petra is feminine as church is feminine in Greek, but it would have been unheard of in Greek to then assign a feminine version of that word to a man, and so it was changed to Petros - a gender consideration - but it's Jesus' meaning in the language He was speaking that needs to be the issue, and it is clearly the same word - "thou art Peter, rock, and upon this rock I will build My Church". Cross reference this with John 1:42 where Peter is referred to as Cephas (Kepha), a transliteration, later translated into Greek as Petros. That's just one point regarding Peter as the head of the Church, and Jesus then immediately gave to him the keys to the Kingdom - i.e. delegated authority. Another interesting passage is John 21:15 - where Jesus is telling Peter to feed my lambs, feed my sheep, feed my sheep. The first and third "feed" in Greek is bosko, to feed or pasture. The second use of the word "feed" in Greek is poimaino, to tend as a shepherd, to rule. Then read through Acts sometime and notice the primacy of Peter in the early Church.The Pope is said to be infallible when He speaks ex cathedra - i.e. when he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church. He is not infallible as a person or in all that he says. For a more indepth treatment of this issue and all of them, I recommend the websites and the paperback, Pope Fiction by Patrick Madrid.

Purgatory - this was a repugnant concept to me, but this like all the Catholic doctrines, were universally believed in the early church for 1500 years - a given. Some of the stated dogmas like some of the Marian devotions were not defined in writing until later, but there was an unwritten acceptance of them from the earliest records of the Church. They were officially written often to deal with heresies in the early Church and nail down the Biblical truth that Jesus is indeed God. The Catholic Church teaches that Purgatory is sort-of an entryway to heaven. If you go to Purgatory, you've made it - a hallway where the dirt is kicked off the shoes before entering the house. It's referred to more as a state than a place. But doesn't Jesus' blood cover it all? Yes, but if we say we have no sin, we make Him a liar. Paul said "I die daily" - and the epistles are full of admonitions toward a more holy life - and without holiness no man shall see God. So Purgatory is a state of final cleansing, but God doesn't live in time, so only He understands the time frame of it all. Jesus said to the thief on the cross "Today, you will be with me in Paradise" But Jesus didn't go to heaven that day - He went to somewhere the Catholics call Purgatory to preach to the righteous dead, and the thief went with Him. Look at Matt. 12:31-32 - here is an indication that sins can be forgiven in an age to come. Prayers for the dead were always offered in the early Church and still are among the Jews in the "Mourner's Qaddish". In I Cor. 3:11-15 scripture speaks of a place where our works will be revelaed by fire and we'll barely escape. In Philippians 1:6 we see that "He who hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the Day of Jesus Christ." It doesn't say, until we die, but until the day the Lord returns - so after we die, where is that ongoing work being performed? It couldn't be in heaven since only perfection and complete holiness can enter there. And a similar thought is expressed in I Thess. 5:23 "... and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Again, there are books on the subject and many more scriptures.

The communion of Saints - a fun area to investigate in Scripture because there is so much Biblical justification for this doctrine that in 30 years of Scripture study I had somehow managed to miss - duh.... One of the most obvious is at the end of Matthew in ch. 27:52-53 reporting that right after the resurrection, the bodies of the righteous dead came out of their graves and wandered around Jerusalem appearing to many. Obviously people were visiting with them and asking questions - can you imagine being in the midst of that scene? Here communion with part of what Catholics call the mystical body of Christ is permitted and apparently encouraged. Hebrews 12:22-24 says "But ye have come unto Mount Zion and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born, who are written in Heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, ..." It doesn't say we "will come" but that, as Christians we have come. The Catholic Church teaches that we are all family - one in mind and spirit and that those who are dead are not dead but alive in Christ. Moses and Elijah appeared and spoke with Jesus on the Mt. of Transfiguration, and Jesus said we would do all He has done and more - John 14:12. In Revelation we see there will be two witnesses during the Tribulation (Moses and Elijah?) who return to preach, prophecy and obviously communicate with the people on earth at that time. In Revelation, the saints are seen carrying the prayers of the faithful before the throne of God - Rev. 5:8. Jesus is the ONE mediator between God and man - the Catholic Church teaches that, but in Him, we are to pray, mediate for each other. Jesus reconciles us to God, and yet we, in Him, are given the ministry of reconciliation - II Cor. 5:18-19. We are nothing without Him, but we are in Him, members of His body, living in cooperation with Him. One of my first questions was - how could the saints hear us anyway since they'd have to be omniscent, but in I Corinthians 13:12 we see that "...now I know in part; but then (in heaven) shall I know, even as also I am known.". In other words, as God knows everything about us now and what we ask for even before we ask for it, in heaven we will somehow have that same ability to know as we are now known, so the saints there do know, can hear, and can intercede. Do Catholics worship the saints and Mary? They'd better not or their souls are in danger, as the Church forbids the worship of anyone but God. But honor is given to those who have gone before and led exemplary lives. In Washington, DC we see statues of Lincoln, FDR, etc. In our homes we have treasured photos of relatives who have died. Are they being worshipped? Of course not, but honored and remembered only, and we are often inspired by their example. Scripture commands us to pray for one another and to seek prayer - Catholics simply believe that since those who have gone before are still alive and part of the great cloud of witnesses and are now fully sanctified in heaven, just men made perfect, and that the prayers of a righteous man availeth much, it's helpful to ask them to pray for us, as we are all family. An important passage is the story of the Transfiguration (Luke 9:29-35) when Peter wanted to build three tabernacles, one for Jesus, one for Moses and one for Elijah (suggesting all 3 be equally honored) and the voice of God the Father boomed from Heaven, "This is my beloved Son - hear HIM!" God has made it clear that there is a mystical body of Christ with whom we are free to communicate, but it is Jesus who has primacy and is to be exalted, and this is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. We see warnings in the Bible about the danger of involvement in necromancy which is the conjuring up of dead spirits through mediums for the purpose of foretelling the future. This is a grave sin, but has nothing to do with the communion of saints and simply asking someone to pray for us. One of my favorite books on this subject is "Any Friend of God's is a Friend of Mine" by Patrick Madrid - paperback.

Indulgences - this was a very strange concept to me and difficult to understand. In the dark ages the concept was abused and was understandably one of the main issues of the Reformers. The Church definitely needed correction and reformation, but not schism. My limited understanding of this doctrine is that an indulgence is a grace granted by God that shortens the reaping time on earth for a sin that has already been confessed and forgiven. We see examples of this in Scripture - one of the clearest to me is the case of David and Bathsheba. They committed a serious sin, and reaped as their first child died, despite desperate prayer. But David's repentance was so deep and profound (Psalm 51) and he was later called by God, "a man after my own heart" and they gave birth to King Solomon. The time of judgment for the sin ended and blessing ensued. That was an indulgence - the Church just gave it a name and a form. The year of Jubilee is a good example of an indulgence. Jesus gave Peter and then the Apostles the authority to forgive or retain sin and to speak blessing to believers, and we see that in the granting of an indulgence by a Priest who is in apostolic succession. At this point I don't understand much more than this, but you can find more on the web if you want to.

The Priesthood - call no man Father - right? Some scriptures to consider: Rom 4:17-18; I John 2:13-14; Acts 7:1-2; I Cor. 4:14-15; I Thess. 2:11; Gen. 17:4-5; Luke 16:24; Eph 3:13 on ( the priest is a father only inasmuch as he participates in the Fatherhood of God)The admonition was to call no man Father in the sense of a supreme authority on par with God. Compare Numbers 16:1-11 with Jude 11; the common Protestant objection is that we are all a priesthood of believers and, as such, have no need for the priest. It's true that there is a common priesthood of believers, however there is clearly a designated and ministerial priesthood that is an apostolic Priesthood, and God warns us in Jude 11 not to assume that just because we are part of the common priesthood of believers, we then have the authority of a Priest or can perform the same functions, as that is seen by God as a rebellion against Him.The Priesthood is identical with the office of elder. The term Priest is simply a shortened English version of the Greek word for elder - presbuteros. The notion that the church doesn't need Priests is new, within the last 500 years. For 1500 years the Priesthood was accepted.The subject of the Priesthood is huge, and I just refer you to both the websites "Biblical Evidence for Catholicism" and "Catholic Answers". All I can say is that after months of study, I have no doubt that it is historically and Biblically justified. What about Priests who sin, and there sure are some since they are human too? The validity of their authority rests upon the office, not upon the person as such. A doctor may be unhealthy, too fat and a chain smoker - but he has the authority to write prescriptions and they still work.

Mary - what a struggle I had with this, almost approaching nausea. I have pages and pages of notes and scriptural references, books and tape series. She was the chosen vessel to bear the Savior, the redeemer, God Himself, and at the very least she deserves a place of much greater honor that she is accorded in the Protestant churches. The Marian doctrines were universally believed for 1500 years and there's abundant material on that in a study of the early church fathers. Even Martin Luther and Calvin believed in her perpetually virginity and that she was the "Mother of God"! But what about all the references to Jesus' brothers? Again there are pages of references on the web and lots of books treating this, but briefly the word used for "brothers" is a word often used for cousin or relative Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for cousin and the Hebrew word for brother is used in the Old Testament for kinsman, translated by the Septuagint as "adelphos". Abraham and Lot were referred to as brothers - were they? No, they were uncle and nephew. If James who wrote the book of James had truly been Jesus' brother, it would have been impossible for the early church fathers to affirm the perpetual virginity of Mary, and yet they did. Also it would have been unheard of and an unforgivable insult in Jewish culture, if Jesus still had living siblings for Him to give his mother into the care of someone not in the immediate family (John) at the cross. Look at John 20:17-18 where Jesus tells Mary Magdalene to "go to my brothers and say to them 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'. Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples 'I have seen the Lord'; and she told them that he had said these things to her." If Jesus had meant blood brothers, would Mary have deliberately disobeyed Him, especially regarding an announcement so important?! Again, this subject is way too vast for this page and I refer you to the tons of info. on the web.

The Mass - is Jesus crucified over and over in the Mass? Of course not, because He died once and for all and that ended the need for sacrifice as He was the one ultimate and perfect sacrifice. In John ch. 6 He commands us to remember Him in the communion and that the bread IS His body and the wine IS His blood. It's the only time his disciples ever left him over a doctrine, because the teaching was too extreme for some of them. If He had meant it was only a symbol He would have called them back and clarified it, as He so often did with His parables and other teachings when they misunderstood, but He didn't. He warned about taking the communion (Eucharist) unworthily, not discerning the body, and that some had even died. So the Mass is a re-presentation of that once and for all sacrifice - God doesn't live in time and His sacrifice doesn't exist in time - it is still sufficient to redeem us from sin - it exists perpetually as the pivotal moment of our eternal salvation, and we declare and celebrate that sufficiency in the daily re-presentation in the Mass, as we are supernaturally nourished by the body, blood, soul and divinity of the living Jesus. We also offer ourselves - we are crucified with Christ, yet live. King and Priest Melchelzedik in Genesis brought an offering of bread and wine - that was pre-Levitical, an unbloody sacrifice pleasing to God. Jesus offered a bloody sacrifice to fulfill the Old Testament requirement (needed due to the gravity of sin) and now as an eternal king and priest forever after the order of Melchelzedik, we see again the unbloody sacrifice of the blood and wine at the Mass. Some scriptures to consider: Hebrews 8:1-6 Jesus is (now, continually, perpetually) our High Priest, now a minister in heaven, offering gifts and sacrifices. Heb. 9:23-24 We are purified with better sacrificeS than those things in the Old Testament times that were purified with animal sacrifices - we as the body of Christ are those better, heavenly things, (we are the temple of the Holy Spirit) that are now purified with sacrifies (plural).This conforms to the Catholic doctrine that the one sacrifice on the cross is a perpetual and ongoing sacrifice outside of time being offered in heaven for us and on earth replicated or re-presented in the Mass - thus sacrifices. Heb. 8:6 Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant - He is our new Passover (a feast that was to be celebrated as a memorial forever - Exo. 12:14) The only time Jesus ever used the phrase New Covenant in fullfillment of Jer. 31:31 (God's promise of a New Covenant) was at the Last Supper (Matt. 26;28) when He said "This is the New Covenant in My blood - do this in memory of Me." A study of this wondrous area is so profound and deep and was for me a deciding factor.

SOME FAVORITE RESOURCES:

Rome Sweet Home (paperback) by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

Surprised by Truth (paperback) Compiled by Patrick Madrid

Pope Fiction (paperback) by Patrick Madrid

Any Friend of God's is a Friend of Mine (paperback) by Patrick Madrid

Any tape series by Tim Staples, former Assembly of God pastor

FAVORITE WEB LINKS:

DIASPORA MINISTRY INTERNATIONAL

BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR CATHOLICISM

CATHOLIC INFORMATION CENTER

CATHOLIC ANSWERS

EWTN (GLOBAL CATHOLIC T.V. NETWORK)