Posted 12-2-00
Since the 1930s, fishermen have pulled in about 200 other coelacanths. The catches have been so few and in such a restricted area that scientists assumed they were dealing with a small an isolated population living only in the Mozambique Strait, or even around just one or two of the Comoros islands (Grand Comoros and Anjouan).
...But the chance discovery of a fish last year near Menadotua Island in the Celebes archipelago of Indonesia has forced a rethink...Detailed analysis of its body features and two stretches of its DNA has now revealed the fish is a new - though closely-related - species of coelacanth (Latimeria menadoensis)....
I keep wondering why the players don't read the Bible to see what is going to happen in the end. It is all written down, and has been for a long time. It isn't even hidden under lock and key. Bibles are available if they would just sit before the fire and read.
Our watch is interesting. We know about the covenant that will be confirmed for 7 years, even if they don't. Agape
The Greek word is used for trump is plural and singular alike and cannot be said to be only one ways. It can be translated either way.
I don't know if you read my message on the lines are being drawn on the ten Virgins. It's below.
I can't recall how many years ago that I first heard the remark that Rev. 4:1, was the rapture of the church. I thought at the time that it was utterly preposterous that anyone could think such a thing. It is obvious to me that John is personally being spoken to there. Through the years this doctrine has caught on and now multitudes of people believe it. I can't see how. To me it's doing violence to the scripture. Making it say something that it simply doesn't say.
I also could not believe in two raptures. I've even heard some say three raptures. I've probably heard all the reasonings, but I don't see it scripturally. I see one rapture only.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation. Love
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The Lines Are Being Drawn on the Ten Virgins
Just this past week I believe the Lord is revealing this to me.
I believe that the lines are NOW being drawn on the story of the Ten Virgins. We are at the midnight hour.
We're saved only by the blood of Jesus. Those that are truly blood bought will agree with the Spirit.
1 Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the SPIRIT, and the water, and the BLOOD: and these three AGREE in one.
Those that claim to be Christian that are in opposition to the SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER are on dangerous ground. Those that oppose the work and gifts of the Spirit must awaken and come into the truth of the gospel before it's too late. There are multitudes that name the name of Jesus and have NO relationship with the Lord. Jesus said.
Matt 25:1: Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
I see something growing, that has always been, but now there's emerging a vocal segment that claim Jesus, that are hatefully opposed to the SPIRIT FILLED BELIEVER. The blood and the Spirit AGREE, 1 Jo 5:8.
I believe it shows that those in this position are people that have accepted Jesus intellectually, and yet not allowed him to control their heart. The most important distance in the world. 14-15 inches from your HEAD to your HEART, (surrender).
I believe that there is ONE rapture and that Five wise will go, and five foolish will be LEFT BEHIND.
I used to believe that every one that claimed the blood would go in the rapture. I was wrong. They're not going to make it. They didn't really come in. They said Lord, Lord, but kept their distance from the Lord. They had no intimate repationship with Him.
I believe that the BLOOD has the power to sustain after the rapture for those that see that they've missed it. I believe that multitudes of intellectual believers will be slain for the name of Jesus after the rapture.
Do you NOW have a LOVING RELATIONSHIP going on with the Lord? That's the question?
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I believe that when the door was shut, and the other virgins, said, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Jesus was saying, "I am not INTIMATELY ACQUAINTED with you." They believed the Lord existed. They were virgins. They were waiting for the bridegroom right along with the other Five wise virgins that had the extra oil.
Five wise virgins and Five foolish virgins.
I UNDERSTAND why they're called foolish now. All they had to do was ask the Lord to fill them with his Spirit and pass from foolish to wise.
Are you ready to meet Jesus? Are you filled with his Spirit? Do you have an INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP with Him?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the Rapture. That is when he will be revealed to us. The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in the first chapter and in the last chapter. Jesus signs off with "Surely I come QUICKLY." He comes quickly at the Rapture. Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."
Rev. 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and KEEP those things which are written therein (i.e., that are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture): for THE TIME IS AT HAND."
Rev. 22:6,7,10,12 says, "the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel (the angel of the LORD that appeared to Abraham) to shew unto his servants (the Church) the things which must SHORTLY be done. Behold, I COME QUICKLY (at the Rapture): BLESSED is he that KEEPETH the sayings of the prophecy of this book (i.e., that is caught up in the Rapture)....for THE TIME IS AT HAND (the time of the Rapture)....behold, I come QUICKLY (at the Rapture); and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
The main subject of Revelation is the Rapture. The whole book is organized under 3 main headings. In Rev. 1:19, Jesus told John, "Write the things which thou hast seen (the things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture).
The things John was to write about before the Rapture are Jesus' messages to the 7 churches when the Rapture is "at hand." They are appropriate for our times, for the Rapture is now "at hand."
The things he was to write about at the time of the Rapture are in Rev. 4 and 5. The Rapture takes place when John, one of the 24 elders all seen on their thrones immediately after the Rapture, hears Jesus say, "Come up hither." We see the saints before the throne in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. It says of the saints, "they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION." John is not alone in Heaven. He is seated on one of the 12 thrones. The patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel and the other 11 apostles are also seated on their thrones. The saints that see Christ given the Title Deed of the Earth are out of every kindred and nation. They are caught up to Heaven when John and the other 23 elders are caught up.
When John is caught up to Heaven, a trumpet is mentioned. Rev. 4:1 says, "a door was opened in heaven: and the FIRST voice (Christ's, 1:10) which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER" (hereafter the Rapture). As soon as the heavenly scene is recorded, John begins to write the things that are HEREAFTER the Rapture. Jesus is given the Title Deed to the Earth, sealed with 7 seals, in Rev. 5. He starts to open the 1st seal in Rev. 6. This is the beginning of the Tribulation that comes HEREAFTER the Rapture.
Therefore, the trumpet sounds in Rev. 4:1 to call the saints of Rev. 5:9 up to Heaven. This trumpet is the loud voice of the Lord. In the Preview of the Rapture, Rev. 1:10 calls it "a great voice, as of a trumpet." Rev. 4;1 calls it "the first voice...as it were of a trumpet...which said, Come up hither." This is the "trump of God" of I Thess. 4:16 that calls the saints up to meet the Lord in the air. The first trump sounds at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
In Heb. 12:23, the trumpet that calls the Tribulation saints up to Heaven is not mentioned, but we know that it is the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52 that calls the saints to the general assembly in Heaven at the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The "last trump" is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. There is a good reason that the trump is not mentioned; one of the groups being gathered has already heard the first trump at the Pre-Trib Rapture. This is so we can sort it all out and not get confused.
The last trump is not mentioned for the same reason in Mk. 13:27, when the saints caught up to Heaven in the 1st Rapture are gathered from one end of Heaven to the other to the general assembly of Heb. 12:23 at the same time that the Tribulation saints are called up from Earth to that same assembly in Heaven. Mk. 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those previously caught up with John in the Pre-Trib Rapture). This is so we will not be confused, for one of these groups called to this assembly has already heard the first trump at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Mt. 24:31 does mention the trumpet. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other." When the last trump sounds to gather the Tribulation saints from the Earth, the other group that was caught up previously are also called to the general assembly of Heb. 12:23. We have to compare scripture with scripture to get the whole picture. This is by design, so that only those with the indwelling Holy Spirit can figure it out. To unbelievers, it is so much nonsense.
Isa. 28:9-13 esplains why it is this way. "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."
> > Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation.
The wise virgins (the Bride group) will see Christ for the FIRST time at the first "trump of God," the FIRST Rapture. This is the Bride group who is "ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass (i.e., the Tribulation), and to stand before the Son of man" (Lu. 21:36). To be "accounted worthy," we must confess our sins committed since we accepted Christ to bring them all under the blood of Christ. Therefore, sin or lack of sin makes a difference at the first Rapture, but not at the second one.
The foolish virgins will see Christ for the FIRST time at the "last trump," the SECOND Rapture. At that time, ALL believers will be caught up, even if what they have built on the foundation, which is Christ, is wood, hay and stubble. Salvation cannot be lost, but rewards can be.
I Cor. 3:11-15 says, "other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (at the Judgment Seat of Christ). If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
There are ranks in the first resurrection. I Cor. 15:22,23 says, "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." He has already appeared to the Old Testament saints that came out of their graves after Christ did on Resurrection Day. We are the next rank, to be caught up at the first "trump of God." The Tribulation saints will see Him at the "last trump." All ranks will be gathered from one end of Heaven to the other and from one end of Earth to the other to the general assembly in Heaven the day of the "last trump." That is the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.
> > I believe that there is ONE rapture and that Five wise will go, and five foolish will be LEFT BEHIND.
The foolish virgins have lamps that are lit, i.e., they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. They know the Lord and call him "Lord." They just don't have any EXTRA oil of the Holy Spirit in a separate vessel (their bodies). I not only believe in ONE Rapture for the wise virgins, I believe in a SECOND Rapture for the foolish virgins. By that time, they will have bought extra oil. We see them in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. It says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They too are before the throne in Heaven (7:9). They are caught up when Jesus sends his angels to gather all the saints from all parts of Heaven and Earth to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23).
> > Do you NOW have a LOVING RELATIONSHIP going on with the Lord?
You bet!
> > I UNDERSTAND why they're called foolish now. All they had to do was ask the Lord to fill them with his Spirit and pass from foolish to wise.
Why then did Jesus tell all but 2 of the church groups to repent? The foolish virgins could ask for the Holy Spirit in an instant if it were that easy, but the foolish virgins can't buy oil fast enough to go with the wise virgins. They need to get sin out of the way so the Holy Spirit can well up within them like a fountain of living water.
I John 1:4-9 says, "these things write we unto you, THAT YOUR JOY MAY BE FULL. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Once we have confessed our sins, our spiritual robes are white, and we are ready to go with the Lord the first time. The Philadelphians are not told to repent; they already have. In Rev. 3:19, Jesus tells the foolish Laodicean virgins, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT."
In Rev. 2:21,22, Jesus says, "I gave her SPACE TO REPENT of her fornication (joining); and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, EXCEPT THEY REPENT of their deeds."
> > Are you ready to meet Jesus? Are you filled with his Spirit? Do you have an INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP with Him?
Yes!, Yes!, Yes!. Agape
I agree that the feeding of the 5000 is in the spring. Not only was there green grass, but John 6:4 says, "the passover...was nigh." John 6:9 tells us that the 5 loaves were "barley loaves." They would have been of the old crop of barley, because none of the new crop could be used prior to the Feast of Firstfruits.
Mk. 6:40 is interesting. They "sat down in RANKS, by hundreds, and by fifties." The word translated ranks is "prasia." It indicates rows in a garden plot, reminding me of believers being called precious fruit of the earth in James 5:7. It says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the COMING of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." The former rain would have been the preceding fall, starting Tishri 1. The latter rain would have started Nisan 1. After the month of Nisan is over, it does not rain again until fall.
These people "were as sheep not having a shepherd," so Jesus "began to teach them many things" (Mk. 6:34). He "healed their sick" (Mt. 14:14). Jesus is the "bread of life" (Jn. 6:35) and the firstfruits of the barley harvest, so he gave them barley bread to represent his baptizing us with the Spirit of Christ when we believe in him. "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" (Jn. 6:14). They believed in him, but when "Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone" (Jn. 6:15). That reminds me of Jesus’ ascension.
The disciples entered a ship to go toward Capernaum (field of repentance, city of comfort, or the handsome city). "And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid, But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid. Then they willingly received him into the ship: and IMMEDIATELY THE SHIP WAS AT THE LAND WHITHER THEY WENT" (Jn. 6:17-21). They came to "the land of Gennesaret" (harp, garden of the prince) (Mk. 6:53). A furlong is 582 ft., and the lake is 6 miles across, so they were immediately transported quite a long way. Mt. 14:24 says, "the ship was now in the MIDST of the sea." I wonder if their rowing 25 or 30 furlongs could indicate that we will travel a short period of time after Passover season. Think about it. Both Ascension Day and Pentecost are also in the spring.
At the Rapture, I think we will probably meet the Lord in the air, then immediately be at our destination, Heaven. Just before they were quickly transported to the other side, the Lord said "Come," and Peter walked on the water. Peter became afraid and started to sink, but he cried, "Lord, save me." The Lord caught him by the hand and said, "O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret" (Mt. 14:29-34).
You indicated that the feeding of the 5000 seems to depict a spring Rapture and the 4000, a fall Rapture. In the 1st, the Passover was nigh and they sat on green grass. In the 2nd, they sat on the ground. You picked Nisan 10 as likely for the 1st Rapture. That is when they crossed over Jordan into the Promised Land (Josh. 4:19), also when the Passover lamb was chosen. Nisan 10 sounds likely except it is the time of the latter rain. Maybe the feeding of the 5000 and the quick transportation to the garden of the prince just set the season as spring. Song of Sol. 2:10-14 may pick up there and give us more details. Winter is past, the rain is over and gone. Then when the grapes are ripening and there are green figs, the Lord says, "Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away." This can carry us to Ascension Day or Pentecost. Either way, spring seems a good bet for the Pre-Trib Rapture, and I feel sure that the Pre-Wrath Rapture is on Tishri 1, in the fall.
> > I appreciate all the hours you have spent in studying God’s word and for sharing so generously with your readers. The Lord continue to show you more of His ways and patterns of truth.
Thanks. It sounds like you do quite a bit of studying yourself. I sure appreciate your sharing your insight with me. You said, "Loaves used in first feeding consisted of barley. In the second, the loaves would have consisted of wheat." That seems consistent with other findings concerning the harvest of barley and the harvest of wheat. The former started on Firstfruits, and the latter started on Pentecost. You also mentioned that after both feedings, "the lake was crossed." That seems significant in picturing the 2 Raptures.
> > Now comes a shocking discovery. The 12 baskets in Greek mean 12 small hand-baskets (pophinos), whereas the 7 baskets are 7 large baskets (spuridos), the same word used for the basket Paul was put in as he was let down the Damascus wall. Hence the first translation is a small number, symbolized by the 144,000, the second translation will be a large number, "a great multitude that no man could number" who came out of the great tribulation, even as 7 large baskets are greater in content than 12 small hand-baskets."
Thanks for this new information concerning the baskets. I think the 144,000 Israelites are caught up with the great multitude out of the Great Tribulation. They seem to be numbered to show that they are part of the Bride of Christ. Rev. 14:3-5 says, "they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
It seems that the Bride group caught up in the 1st Rapture have the 12 apostles (elders) as their Representatives. The Bride group of only the 144,000 Israelites caught up in the 2nd Rapture have the 12 patriarchs (elders) of Israel as their Representatives.
> > My present conviction is the first group goes on Nisan 10, the other on Tishri 1. I have not seen you mention Nisan 10. But add that date with 1260 days and the result is Tishri 1.
I don’t understand that last sentence. Could you explain it a bit more? Also, you mentioned that Noah entered the Ark on Nisan 10, but Noah was told that the rain would come in 7 more days on Cheshvan 10, then it started to rain on Cheshvan 17.
> > Even if you don’t agree with me, we still love you in the Lord. I am open for further light and instruction.
That goes for me too.
> > Let me say thinks again for serving the saints so unselfishly. The Lord bless your labors and supply your every need. > > In closing (I have not commented exhaustively on the 2 feedings), don’t you think the Lord must have said volumes in Mk. 8:14-21? Notice, He mentions both miracles, the 2 gatherings and He ends with, "How is it that you do not understand?" > > May He give us daily grace to follow on to know Him in greater measure and to understand His way. In Christ’s love.
Yes, there are probably more things hinted at than we have yet seen. That is what makes it so hard to stop studying the Bible. I keep saying that once it gets hold of you, you can’t leave it alone. I appreciate you taking the time to give me your insight into these 2 feedings. Maybe there are still things here to dig out. May the Lord be with you as you study. Blessings and agape
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Updated 12-2-00