Posted 12-15-00
Notice that the word "voice" in this verse is connected to the word "cried". That is , Jonah was no doubt "crying with a Loud voice." Notice how this same word--"VOICE"-- is used in these 2 verses from the same chapter, Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the VOICE of the trumpet exceeding LOUD; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
Ex 19:19 And when the VOICE of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed LOUDER and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
Therefore we must conclude that when God "answered him(Moses) by a voice," it was with a "Loud voice or shout." Why is this important ? As you know from Exodus 19:16-19 all three elements of I Thessolonians 4:16 are mentioned. These same elements are: 1) The Lord DESCENDING 2) With a SHOUT 3) And with the TRUMP(ET) of God.
Here are the verses to look at:
EXODUS: 19:15: And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.
19:16-19: And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the TRUMPET exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD DESCENDED upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a VOICE (or SHOUT).
I Thes. 4:16: For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a SHOUT, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Finally, this whole scenerio seems to be what Hebrews chapter 12 is alluding to in the following verses:
12:18-29 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a TRUMPET, and the VOICE of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose VOICE then SHOOK the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we RECEIVING A KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
Notice that vs. 28 appears to connect this scene at Mt. Sinai to US "receiving a KINGDOM." This would appear to put these events at the same time, that of PENTECOST.
the verse in Revelation 17:14 appears to be referring to the time of when the beast and the 10 horns shall "make war with the Lamb." This would be a clear reference to the event of the 2nd coming of Revelation 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY.
Now compare this to Revelation 17:14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Revelation 17:12 which says: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
I would tend to think that the phrase "as yet" in the context of this passage would indicate that it is referring to the time that John received the vision in the 90's A.D. Notice that verses 10 and 11, which are part of the description would seem to confirm that the numbers 5, 7, 8 are given at the time that John received the vision.
17:10,11 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition
If this analysis is correct, then this was a historical time / reference passage locating the time frame of the successive "risings" of the Beast, as given FROM THE TIME FRAME OF WHEN JOHN RECEIVED THE VISION. Verse 14 then looks forward to the ENDING of the Beast when he makes war with the Lamb and those that are with him at the second coming as stated in Revelation 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Therefore , I see no "conflict" with these verses and those in Luke 17 and Matthew 24 about how the Rapture will take place on the "same day" as destruction hits the earth, as given in the examples of Noah and Lot. This, again, seems to to what Hebrews chapter 12 re the "SHAKING" that is to take place is referring to.
Matthew 24:37-41: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until THE DAY (NOTICE THE EMPASIS PUT ON "THE" DAY) that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall ALSO the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Then the parallel passage in Luke 17:26-31 says: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until, THE DAY" (NOTICE AGAIN THE EMPASIS ON "THE" DAY) "that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. LIKEWISE ( THIS SHOWS THE PASSAGE IS REFERRING TO THE SAME EVENT AS THAT JUST SPOKEN OF ) also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But THE SAME DAY (NOTICE, AGAIN THE STRONG UNMISTAKEABLE EMPHASIS ON "THE SAME DAY" that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. God Bless your studies.
> > this whole scenerio seems to be what Hebrews chapter 12 is alluding to. 12:18: For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched...But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem
Heb. 12:22-28 is a very important passage. Because it mentions "God the Judge," and I know that the Judgement Seat of Christ is the day of the 2nd Rapture, I thought it was only talking about the day of the 2nd Rapture. However, v. 25 says, "See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they ESCAPED not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we ESCAPE (as in Lu. 21:36), if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven." That seems to be talking about the 1st Rapture. It isn't too likely that anyone would refuse at the 2nd Rapture. The rocks are already falling. They know what is coming.
Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The escape is the Pre-Trib Rapture. We will escape the Tribulation.
James 5:7-9 is talking about the 1st Rapture. It says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early (Tishri; Sept./Oct.) and latter rain (Nisan; Mar./Apr.). Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for THE COMING OF THE LORD DRAWETH NIGH. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the DOOR." This door is mentioned in Rev. 3:8. Jesus says to the church, "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." This reminds me of the open door in Noah's Ark. It stays open 1 week after the Lord tells Noah it will start to rain in 7 days. It is the door that is opened in Heaven at the Rapture in Rev. 4:1.
At the Rapture, Jesus must judge who is chosen as the Bride group. At the Rapture, "they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14). Mt. 22:14 says, "many are called, but few are chosen." The man without a wedding garment is cast outside the door.
The Bride group does not come to Mt. Sinai, but to the heavenly Mt. Sion. Heb. 12:22-24 says, "ye ARE COME (i.e., at this time, we have arrived in Heaven) unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus."
The word translated "general assembly" is "panegurei." Thayer says it means "a festal assembly." I started looking through my Bibles. These translate it as such: NAB, Berkeley, RSV and Phillips. The Literal Concordant Version has "universal convocation." All the feasts are holy convocations (Lev. 23:2). A convocation is a "mikraw" in Hebrew, something called out, an assembly called together, a rehearsal. In Heb. 12:23, the JB has "GATHERED FOR THE FESTIVAL, with the whole Church of FIRSTBORN sons."
Note: Panegurei is only used that one time. That makes it even more significant. I think this gathering is the Rapture, as "our gathering together unto him" is in II Thess. 2:1, and it is on the day of a feast. Christ "is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence" (Co. 1:18), but we are the "FIRSTBORN SONS" (plural).
In Ex. 19:20, "the LORD CAME DOWN upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD CALLED MOSES UP to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. This could represent the Rapture. Then in v. 21, "the LORD said unto Moses, Go down." This may represent Moses being sent down to Earth at the beginning of the Tribulation to prophesy 1260 days. Jewish tradition says that Moses received the 10 commandments on Pentecost. That would make sense if we are in Heaven on Sivan 3, attend the festal assembly on Sivan 6, Moses is present briefly at the festal assembly in Heaven on Sivan 6, then comes to Earth that day.
Both Moses and Elijah were talking with the Lord at the Transfiguration, which represents our being with Peter, James, and John in the kingdom of God. Lu. 9:27-31 says, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death (i.e., be Raptured), till they see the KINGDOM OF GOD. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and WENT UP INTO A MOUNTAIN to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared IN GLORY." It is significant that John is the one caught up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1. I think all 3 of these are elders, who are seated on their thrones in Rev. 4:4.
About "eight days" could stand for about 8 years. If they started when the Oslo Accords were signed, Sept. 13, 1993, Pentecost, 2001 (May 28) would be about 8 years (1993 + 8 = 2001).
> > Notice that vs. 28 appears to connect this scene at Mt. Sinai to US "receiving a KINGDOM." This would appear to put these events at the same time, that of PENTECOST.
It seems that we will be in Heaven for the festal gathering on next Pentecost. Since in Ex. 19:16, it was Sivan 3 when "the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud" sounded, maybe we will be caught up on Sivan 3, the "third day," (Ex. 19:11). V. 13 says, "when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount." The Ark had "lower, second, and third stories" too, and the Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37).
At Sinai in Ex. 19:13, the Lord sounds the TRUMPET, and that is the FIRST TRUMPET of the Bible. In Isa. 18:3, the Rapture is "when HE (the LORD) bloweth a TRUMPET. In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:10, it is the voice of Christ that is the "great voice, as of a TRUMPET." In Rev. 4:1, it is the "FIRST voice which I heard" (i.e., Christ's voice) that is "as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me, which said, COME UP hither." This is the FIRST "trump of God" of I Thess. 4:16. These passages are connected. As in Rev. 4:1, Ex. 19:13 says, "when the TRUMPET soundeth long, they shall COME UP to the mount."
> > the verse in Revelation 17:14 appears to be referring to the time of when the beast and the 10 horns shall "make war with the Lamb." This would be a clear reference to the event of the 2nd coming of Revelation 19:19
Rev. 17:12 says that the 10 kings have received NO kingdom as yet. That probably means that it is BEFORE the Tribulation begins. As the Beast comes to power in Rev. 13:1, all 10 kings are crowned.
> > "as yet" in the context of this passage would indicate that it is referring to the time that John received the vision in the 90's A.D. Notice that verses 10 and 11, which are part of the description would seem to confirm that the numbers 5 ,7 , 8 are given at the time that John received the vision
Let's count backwards, so maybe you can see that the king that "is" in power in Rev. 17:10 is the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10, not Domition, who was in power when John wrote down the script of this miracle play for Jesus. The setting of the play is when the Rapture is "at hand." It is "at hand" in both the 1st and last chapters (1:3: 22:10). Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the Rapture. The 8th king is Satan, the great red dragon. The 7th is the False Prophet. The 6th is the Beast that "is" in power at the moment the Rapture takes place. He is, I think, the Pope. The 7 kingdoms on which the Mystery Religion of Babylon sits are (1) Babel I, (2) Babylon II, (3) Media-Persia, (4) Greece, (5) Rome, (6) Ecclesiastic Rome and (7) Babylon III.
> > I see no "conflict " with these verses and those in Luke 17 and Matthew 24 about how the Rapture will take place on the "same day" as destruction hits the earth, as given in the examples of Noah and Lot.
The 2nd Rapture (as the days of Lot) takes place on the Day of God's Wrath That is the day of destruction. The 1st Rapture takes place before the Tribulation begins. It is as the days of Noah. No fire fell that day. Notice that marriage is listed in the account of the days of Noah, but not in the account of the days of Lot. Noah's wife was taken up with him. Lot's wife didn't make it.
Re: 3rd day. Gen. 1:13 says, "the evening and the morning were the third day." We are to be AS bright stars. Notice that the stars are mentioned for the 1st time in the Bible on the 3rd day, in Gen. 1:16.
Gen. 22:4 says, "on the THIRD DAY Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off." Will we see HIS PLACE of John 14:2 on the day of the Rapture. Afar represents Heaven. Gen. 31:22 says, " it was told Laban on the THIRD DAY that Jacob was fled." Gen. 42:18 says, "Joseph said unto them the THIRD DAY, This do, and live; for I fear God." Ex. 19:11 says, "be ready against the THIRD DAY: for the THIRD DAY the LORD will COME DOWN in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai." Ex. 19:16 says, "it came to pass on the THIRD DAY in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the TRUMPET exceeding loud."
I Sam. 20:5 says, "David (type of Christ) said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the THIRD DAY at even." II Ki. 20:5 says, "tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: ON THE THIRD DAY THOU SHALT GO UP UNTO THE HOUSE OF THE LORD."
Esth. 5:1 says, "Now it came to pass on the THIRD DAY, that Esther (hidden, secret, star) put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house." Hos. 6:2 says, "After two days will he revive us: in the THIRD DAY he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." Mt. 17:23 says, "they shall kill him, and the THIRD DAY he (Christ, head of the Body of Christ) shall be raised again." Agape
The first scripture to look at is Song of Solomon 2:13. Clearly Christ and the Bride are the subjects. There is a mention of green figs and tender grapes. Oh how I could use a botanist right now! As best I could, I went into encyclopedias about these plants. The green fig is also called the untimely fig, (also in Rev 6:13), and grows IN THE WINTER (now), but falls away in the SPRING, and is not associated with the other figs of later in the year. The tender grape is the BUD or FLOWER on a grapevine, (just as we are the bud or flower on the vine which is our LORD). There is no grape before the flower. The grapevine is pruned in the SPRING, as part of the process of growing grapes.
In Luke 21:30, (I prefer Green's Interlinear on this passage), "Now when they sprout leaves (referring to fig trees), seeing it you will know that now the summer is near (SPRING),and in Luke 21:31 the Kingdom of God. A fig tree has the fruit first (Firstfruits?), THEN the leaves. This is why in the passages where Jesus Christ inspected the fig tree, since it already had leaves, it should have had fruit.
Spring starts on the equinox and ends on the solstice. So we have a spring window of roughly mid March to mid June, (but after May 28th is too late, the Great Tribulation has to start then), so we can direct our interest from mid March to May 28th. We could be redeemed anytime, and I am not convinced it has to be a feast day. I am very eager to see what occurs on Chanukah, if it is not the time just yet, I anticipate something significant to happen. We don't have long to wait and see. Agape to all of you from all of us
Mk. 11:13 says, " he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was NOT YET."
> > I am not convinced it has to be a feast day.
I think the Rapture could be on Sivan 3 (Fri., May 25, 2001) (when the trumpet of God sounded at Sinai), but according to Heb. 12:22-24), we should be in Heaven on a feast day (Pentecost, Sivan 6; Mon. May 28, 2001), when Moses is told to "Go down" (Ex. 19:21) to Earth to prophesy during the 1st 1260 days of the Tribulation. In Heb. 12:23, the word "panegurei," translated "general assembly" is a festal assembly (Thayer). Agape
> >In I Sam. 6:13, "they of Bethshemesh were REAPING their WHEAT HARVEST in the valley: and THEY LIFTED UP THEIR EYES, AND SAW THE ARK, and rejoiced to see it." The Lord speaks from between the Cherubim. I Sam. 12:17 says, "Is it not WHEAT HARVEST TODAY? I will call unto the LORD, and HE SHALL SEND THUNDER AND RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that YOUR WICKEDNESS IS GREAT, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, IN ASKING YOU A KING" (Saul, king before David, as the Beast is before Christ, the Son of David). This could prefigure the Lord's coming on the same day the Beast is made head of the One World Government. Hos. 6:3 says that he will come unto us as the rain.
I also think this ties in to Hebews 12 re the "shaking" of all things at the time of the Rapture. God Bless
Re: possible year of the Rapture. Lu. 13:6-9 says, " He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
If these years started in 1998 (the 480th year in the Modern Parallels), the 3rd year would be 2001 (the 483rd year in the Modern Parallels). The 3rd year in the parable is the year in which Jesus speaks. What if the Rapture is the 3rd year, the 3rd month (Sivan), the 3rd day (Sivan 3, 5761; our May 25, 2001)? Agape
The Lord has used you to minister to me in an unspeakably rich way and I want join with your family and friends across the country and around the world in celebrating your life, honoring you for your faithfulness and single-minded devotion to Him and His Word. Thanks be to the Lord for the grace He has bestowed upon you to enable you in all you do. Every blessing in our Lord Jesus, the Almighty, the Lord of hosts, our Yah Veh Shua
Happy Birthday, Marilyn!!!
The Lord meet your deepest needs, fulfill the desires of your heart, and satisfy you fully. May your root be spread out by the waters, the dew lie all night upon your branch, your glory be fresh in you, and your bow be renewed in your hand (Job 29).
He gave you above average curiosity and He holds you close to Himself as you reach to explore ever new facets of truth and apprehend yet deeper understanding of His plan and His ways. From the earliest age He has prepared you for these days in which you are now living and for the best which is yet to come.
"They that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."
Three planets around distant stars have been found by scientists from the Anglo-Australian Observatory and nine institutions in the UK and USA...
Forty-six other extrasolar planets have been found since 1995. None are believed to be capable of supporting life....
The new planets were found around nearby stars within 150 light-years of Earth.
...Like the planets of our own solar system, epsilon Reticulum and HD179949 lie on nearly circular orbits. In comparison the brown dwarf HD164427 and mu Ara lie on very elongated orbits....
The smallest is a kind planet hunters call a 'hot Jupiter'. It has a mass at least 84% that of Jupiter's but lies scorchingly close to its parent star, far closer than Mercury does to the Sun. Its 'year' is a mere three Earth days.
The middle-weight planet lies in an Earth-like orbit inside the 'habitable zone' where liquid water could exist. But the planet itself is not Earth-like: weighing at least 1.26 Jupiter masses it is almost certainly a Jupiter-like gas giant. It takes a leisurely 426 days to complete the voyage around its star, epsilon Reticulum in the constellation of the Net.
The third planet is another gas giant, of at least 1.86 Jupiter masses. Its orbit extends just a bit further from its star than Mars does from the Sun and it takes 743 days to crawl around its star, mu Ara, in the constellation of the Altar.
...the planets found to date are so different from those in the Solar System that theories of planet formation have been "turned on their head"...
In Greek, this sign is ARA (Altar) and THUSIASTERION (the imprecation, a curse, as the asteroid is "the curse" (Zech. 5:3). In Arabic, ARA is AL MUGAMRA, the completing, or finishing. It dumps its fire on Earth on the 2300th day, the completion of the shortened Tribulation. It is the day that the Tribulation saints are caught up to Heaven, as LYRA depicts. That is the day that Christ becomes King of kings and Lord of lords. It also is the day the False Prophet, the seed of the serpent, is deposed from office and the dragon himself becomes "the eighth" of Rev. 17:11.
Note: Pentecost still seems like the most likely time for the Pre-Trib Rapture. See Pro and Con 657.
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Updated 12-15-00