Posted 1-14-01
Someone sent me Mt. 24:36 from the Greek New Testament by Paul R. McReynolds. Under the Greek words, it says, "About but the day that and hour no one HAS KNOWN, but not the messengers of the heavens but not the Son, except the Father alone." She noticed that what Jesus said was past tense, no one has known.
That fits just fine with what Jesus said in Rev. 3:3 that suggests that we would know the hour. He said, "If therefore thou (the churches) shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what HOUR I will come upon thee." What will happen if we do watch? Then he would not come on us as a thief, and we would KNOW WHAT HOUR he would come upon the church.
It also fits with I John 2:18,20,27,28: "Little children (i.e., last generation), it is the last TIME (year?, Rev. 12:6,14): and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last TIME....But YE HAVE AN UNCTION (same word translated anointing in v. 27) from the Holy One, and YE KNOW ALL THINGS....But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as THE SAME ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU OF ALL THINGS, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children (last generation), abide in him; that, when he shall appear (at the Rapture), we may have confidence (parrhesia, all out-spokenness, frankness, bluntness, publicity, by impl. assurance), and not be ashamed before him at his coming."
Here are the verses I found about not knowing. I have tried to group them under appropriate headings according to whom Jesus was referring:
REFERRING TO ALL MANKIND IN 30 AD (THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE DAY OR HOUR)
Mt. 24:35,36: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that DAY and HOUR KNOWETH no MAN, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Mk. 13:31,32: "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that DAY and that HOUR KNOWETH no MAN, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
REFERRING TO THE APOSTLES (DIDN'T KNOW THE TIMES OR SEASONS)
Acts 1:7,8: "he said unto THEM ('apostles,' v 1), It is not for YOU to know the TIMES or the SEASONS, which the Father hath put in his own power. But YE (apostles) shall receive power (to know the times and seasons), AFTER that the Holy Ghost is come upon YOU" (after Pentecost, 30 AD).
Mk. 13:33,35: "Take ye (Peter, James, John and Andrew, v. 3) heed, watch and pray: for ye (apostles) know not when the TIME is....Watch ye therefore: for YE (apostles) know not when the master (Christ) of the house (church) cometh (at the Rapture), AT EVEN, or AT MIDNIGHT, or AT THE COCKCROWING, or in the MORNING: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto YOU (apostles, Mk. 13:3) I say unto ALL (believers), Watch."
REFERRING TO ALL BELIEVERS (DON'T KNOW THE THE HOUR)
Mt. 24:41,42: "one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for YE know not what HOUR YOUR LORD doth come."
Mt. 24:43,44: "if the goodman (minister, not Master, who is Christ) of the house (church, the Son of man's house, Mk. 13:34) had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house (Christ's church) to be broken up (diorusso, to be dug through). Therefore be YE also ready: for in such an HOUR as YE think not the Son of man cometh."
Mk. 13:35:Watch ye therefore: for ye (apostles, v. 3) know not when the master (Christ) of the house (church) cometh (at the Rapture), AT EVEN, or AT MIDNIGHT, or AT THE COCKCROWING, or in the MORNING: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto YOU (apostles) I say unto ALL (believers), Watch."
REFERRING TO WISE BELIEVERS: WISE VIRGINS, FAITHFUL SERVANTS, LITTLE FLOCK (DON'T KNOW THE HOUR)
Lu. 12:32-46: "Fear not, LITTLE FLOCK; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom....where your treasure is (in Heaven), there will your heart be also. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning (like wise virgins); And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from (ek, from the place of, Thayer, i.e., from Heaven) the wedding (gamos, marriage festival, Thayer); that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh (at the Rapture) shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the SECOND WATCH (9 PM - midnight), or come in the THIRD WATCH (midnight - 3 AM), and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman (minister) of the house (church, the Master's house) had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house (Christ's house) to be broken through. Be YE ('little flock,' v. 32) therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an HOUR when ye think not. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and WISE STEWARD, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in DUE SEASON (spring, Song of Sol. 2:10-14)? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing."
REFERRING TO FOOLISH BELIEVERS: FOOLISH VIRGINS, UNWISE SERVANTS, EVIL SERVANTS (KNOW NOT THE THE DAY OR HOUR)
Lu. 12:46: "The lord of that servant (unwise, v. 45) will come in a DAY when he looketh not for him, and at an HOUR when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off, like the Laodiceans are speued out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:13,14) with the unbelievers."
Mt. 24:50,51: "The LORD OF THAT SERVANT (the evil one) shall come in a DAY when he looketh not for him, and in an HOUR that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Mt. 25:10-13: "the door was shut. Afterward (after the Rapture) came also the other virgins, saying, LORD, LORD, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto YOU (foolish virgins), I know (eido, prop. to see) YOU not. Watch therefore, for YE know neither the DAY nor the HOUR wherein the Son of man cometh."
Lu. 12:45,46: "if that servant (foolish one) say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The LORD of that servant will come in a DAY when he looketh not for him, and at an HOUR when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:13,14) with the unbelievers."
WE SHOULD WATCH ONE HOUR (41.66 YEARS)
Mt. 26:40: "he cometh unto the DISCIPLES, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not WATCH with me ONE HOUR?"
Mk. 14:37: "he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou WATCH ONE HOUR?"
One hour of a millennial day is 41.66 years (1000 divided by 24). From the fullfilling of the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34 in the Six-Day War of June, 1967 + 41 years = June, 2008. By the time another 2/3rds of a year passes, all the things listed in Dan. 9:24 should be fulfilled. It says, "Seventy weeks (490 years) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to FINISH the transgression, and to make an END OF SINS, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy (Christ)." I think Christ will return Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008).
So it seems to me that the wise virgins CAN KNOW THE DAY, but not the hour, and the foolish virgins won't know the day or hour. See what you think. Agape
> > soul that sins shall surely die. Dosen't that mean none existence, for if we die and are still concious in the spirit world that would make us immortal
What we mean by immortality is that the whole person, all three parts of a believer, becomes immortal. I Thess. 5:23 says, "the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your WHOLE SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Even if the BODY dies and later the SOUL of an unbeliever dies after the Great White Throne Judgment, there still is something left. Jesus called it THEIR WORM. In Mark 9:43-48, he said, "if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED." We have to believe what he says, for he is the Creator. He knows exactly what he is and how he made us, and we do not even understand our own selves, much less God.
I don't fully understand this either, but what is left may be the spirit of man that has not been kindled to life by the Spirit of God. I Cor. 2:11 says, "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the SPIRIT OF MAN which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the SPIRIT OF GOD." I think the way R.B. Thieme put it is that the spirit of man is dormant until kindled to life by the Spirit of God. I don't know how dormant it can be and still know "the things of a man" though. I still have a lot to learn. I hope the Lord will see that we are taught all the things we would like to know more about when we get to Heaven.
Jude 1:19 says of the unbelieving mockers of the last time, "These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit." Sensual, or natural, refers to the soul. Animals have body and soul. Feelings and the will reside in the soul. If the soul dies, these things would be lost. Without the body to do things with, and without the soul to feel, love, or will, the worm that dies not would be in a pitiful state.
As in animals, the body has self consciousness and the soul has world consciousness. A man that is born again has a spirit that has God consciousness. This sets a believer apart from unregenerate man and from animals.
We can choose to live according to the flesh, or we can choose to live according to the spirit. Rom. 8:5-11 explains the conflict of the spirit with the flesh. It says, "they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally (fleshly, i.e., soulishly) minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life (eternal) and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be (the soul is world conscious, not God conscious). So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
If our whole person, body, soul and spirit, was already immortal, we would not need to be changed. Yet I Cor. 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
> > I don't see why God would punnish us for eternity---that's a long time.
Rev. 14:11 says, "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
We have no choice in the matter. God is the Sovereign of the Universe, and what he says goes. He made the rules, and we are not able to change them. We should just obey Him. I'm so thankful that he cares enough about us to provide a Saviour so that we have a chance to be saved. He didn't have to do that. There is no higher up that can tell him what to do. He has the power to do whatever he wants to do.
It is a good thing a man isn't in charge. We have so little patience that with all the mushrooming evil, a man would have zapped us all long ago and dusted off his hands as he said, "Forget that." God's patience is so amazing and something to be very thankful for. However, his fury will come up in his face (Eze. 38:18-20) when Gog's army attacks Israel. All but 1/6th of that army will die (Eze. 39:2). There will be so many dead that it will take Israel 7 months to bury them (Eze. 39:12).
> > demons are against God , so why should they get the reward of torturing us for eternity--thats along time
Why do you think the demons would "get the reward of torturing us for eternity"? Jesus mentioned "hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." Isn't that bad enough?
Have you ever asked Jesus Christ to be your own personal Saviour? You keep saying "us." I don't consider myself part of that group that is lost, because I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior. Do you consider yourself part of that group? Romans 10:9,10 tells us how to be saved. It says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
If I can be of help to you, don't hesitate to ask. In the love of Christ
***From Marilyn: The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the Rapture. That is when he will be revealed to the Bride of Christ. The last book in the Bible is a dramatic production, a miracle play, the script conceived by Jesus and transmitted to John to write down for us. The purpose is to show the church things to come at the end of this age and to enable us to put the Old Testament end-time prophecies into their proper chronological order. Revelation furnishes the outline into which the OT prophecies fit.
***The setting of this play is when the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in both the 1st and last chapters (1:3; 22:10), and Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly." The vantage point where Jesus stands to view events past and future is likely to be 10 days before the Rapture. It is the only reason I can think of that some in prison can be guaranteed that they will only have tribulation 10 days (2:10) from that point. The Rapture must catch them up in just 10 more days.
***Rev. 1 is like the beginning of our movies. First, a quick Preview of the next event, the Pre-Trib Rapture, is shown so we can get oriented in time and know a bit about what to expect. It is addressed to the churches in Asia (muddy, i.e., Earth). It is from the First (LORD of the Old Testament) and the Last (Lord of the New Testament), the Lord Jesus Christ, both YHVH and man, the Redeemer.
*** In the Preview Christ is introduced in 1:6,7 by John as if the Rapture had just taken place. In v. 6, Christ "HATH made us kings and priests." In v. 7, future events are touched on, Christ will come later on at the Second Advent and every eye of the living shall see him, and "they (the Jews, see Isa. 49:7 below) also which pierced him (in the past, Jews plotted against him, took him prisioner and cried out to crucify him): and all kindreds OF THE EARTH shall wail because of him." I don't think it is talking about the end of the Millennium.
***Isa. 49:7 says, "Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to HIM WHOM THE NATION ABHORRETH."
***Zech. 12:10-14 helps us understand that Rev. 1:7 is talking about the LIVING JEWISH REMNANT at the time of the Second Advent. Zech. 12:10-14 says, "I will (in the future) pour upon the house of David, and upon the INHABITANTS of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall (at the Second Advent) look upon me (the First, YHVH, king of Israel, Isa. 44:6) whom they have PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him (the Last, YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6), as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day (Second Advent and following) shall there be a great mourning IN JERUSALEM, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And THE LAND (Israel) shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; ALL THE FAMILIES THAT REMAIN."
***In this Preview, John is seeing Christ at the Rapture, but his introduction touches on the Second Coming briefly too. In Rev. 1:8, John is through with the Introduction. It is as if the Rapture just took place. Jesus tells the saints around him in Heaven just exactly who he is. This is probably the first thing we will hear him say when we arrive in Heaven. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (YHVH king of Israel) and the ending (YHVH Lord of hosts, the Redeemer), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the Almighty."
> > Also in Rev. 1:9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (*Does John's" tribulation" that he's talking about, his jail time on the island of Patmos?He can't be talking about the end time tribulation, can he? And, the people he's talking to, are they the people of his time?Or all people?*)
***Companion means joint participant. Tribulation is "thlipsis, persecution, tribulation, trouble, trials. John was persecuted and exiled to Patmos by Domition, who ruled from 81 to 96 AD. Revelation was written c. 96 AD.
***John will be a joint participant with us in the Rapture. He will be one whom Christ brings with him. He will get his resurrection body and rise up first, then we will be caught up together with him in the clouds. He that had troubles as we have troubles belongs to the same Kingdom of God that we belong to and shares with us the "patience" (endurance) to keep the faith and wait for the Lord's coming. Mt. 24:13 says, "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." John is literally our companion in the Rapture, and we are his companions when the Rapture is played out for us in Revelation. We are the people he is talking to. Revelation is written to the church.
***John was on Patmos, which means mortal, as we are now mortal. Suddenly, he "was" (lit., became) in the Spirit as the Rapture caught him up to Heaven on the 1st of the 2 Days of the Son of Man (Lu. 17:22,26), i.e., the 1st of the 2 Raptures. This is the Lord's day when he comes for his Bride, not the millennial Day of the Lord, on the 1st day of which is the 2nd Rapture and the Marriage of the Lamb.
***John heard Christ's voice "as of a trumpet," "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last," as in Rev. 1:8. Then John turned and looked at Christ standing there in glory with the 7 churches all around him and the star performers still in his hand. He had just caught them all up. A sword went out of his mouth for he cuts off the foolish Laodicean virgins at this Rapture and leaves them behind for chastisement (Rev. 3:19; Lu. 12:46; Mt. 24:51). They will be caught up at the 2nd Rapture on the 2300th day (Dan. 8:133,14) of the shortened Tribulation.
***Then John is told to "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture, i.e., the Tribulation, etc.). In each of Jesus' messages to the churches, he is depicted as he appears in Heaven at the Rapture. To Ephesus, he is "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" (2:1) To Smyrna, he is "the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" (2:8), etc. Then in Rev. 4:1, the actual Rapture takes place that was shown in the Preview. After the "Come up hither," Jesus says, "and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (after the Rapture, i.e., the Tribulation, etc.).
> > Questions about satan. In Luke 10:18 And He said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.(*When did Jesus see this?*) John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. (*When will satan be cast out?*) Rev. 9:1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. (*Is this satan? or something else? If this is satan, then how does this fit with Luke 10:18 and John 12:31?*)
***Maybe Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from the heavens when Satan's planet Rahab was split apart. Job 26:11-14 (JB) says, "The pillars of the heavens tremble, awe-struck at his (the Lord's) threats. By his power, he has whipped up the Sea (dug Earth's Pacific Basin by means of an asteroid impact), by his skill, HE HAS CRUSHED RAHAB (Satan's planet, now the Asteroid Belt). His breath has made the heavens luminous (the blackness of space lit up by the impact explosions), his hand transfixed (KJV, "formed," Heb. chuwl, to be hurled or whirled onto something, as with a whirlwind) the Fleeing (KJV, "crooked," Heb. bariyach, fugitive, fleeing) Serpent (Satan)."
***Isa. 14:12 says, "How art thou FALLEN FROM HEAVEN, O Lucifer (light bearer), son of the morning (Rahab was a morning star when seen in the AM)! how art thou CUT DOWN TO THE GROUND."
***Eze. 28:13-18 addresses Satan as the king of Tyrus (the rock). "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (both the heavenly and the earthly ones); every precious stone (planet) was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (1. symbol of Mercury), topaz (2. Venus), and the diamond (3. Earth), the beryl (4. Mars), the onyx (5. Rahab), and the jasper (6. Jupiter), the sapphire (7. meaning dear to the planet Saturn), the emerald (8. Uranus), and the carbuncle (9. Neptune), and gold (10. Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub (Satan) that covereth (guards); and I have set thee so (Gen. 3:24): thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (# 7); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (on # 5). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I WILL CAST THEE AS PROFANE OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD (# 7): and I WILL DESTROY THEE, O COVERING (guarding) CHERUB, FROM THE MIDST (# 5) OF THE STONES OF FIRE (the planets that look like lighted lamps in the sky). Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I WILL CAST THEE TO THE GROUND (on Earth), I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries (on Rahab and at Babylon) by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee (i.e., an asteroid, piece of Rahab, will impact Earth), it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
> > Last question-In James 5:1-12 it talks about the last days. In v.8 You also be patient, Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.(*How can this "at hand" be explained?*) Look at v.7 Therefore be patient, brethren,(*Christians*) until the coming of the Lord, (*is this 1st rapture?*) See how the farmer(*God the Father?*) waits for the precious fruit of the earth,(*May 28th*) waiting patiently for it (*Christians?*)until it receives the early and latter rain.(*Both coming of Jesus?*)
***The 2 comings of Jesus are as the former and latter rain, Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, however I don't think James 5:7-9 is referring to the 2 Advents. I think it is referring to his coming for the Bride of Christ at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
***The "last days" of v. 3 is the key to understanding 7-9. The coming (parousia") of v. 7 and 8 is the Lord's coming at the Rapture. We are the "precious fruit of the earth." He will wait until after the early (former) rain of Tishri (the fall showering rain) and after the latter rain of Nisan (the spring gathered rain). Pentecost is the next feast day after the latter rain is over and gone (Song of Sol. 2:10-14).
***When "the coming of the Lord draweth nigh" (v. 8 KJV) and "the judge (Christ) standeth before the door (symbol of the Rapture), it may be 10 days before the Rapture, as in Rev. 3:8.
Rev. 3:8,10 (Phillips) seems to be set at the same time. It says, "I have given you A DOOR FLUNG WIDE OPEN, which no man can close!...because you have obeyed my call to patient ENDURANCE I will keep you SAFE FROM the hour of trial which is to come (after the Rapture) upon the whole world, to test all who live upon the Earth. I AM COMING SOON."
See what you think after processing this with what you already know.
> > Dear Father in Heaven, Please bless Ed and Marilyn in the spirit and physical needs. Keep the forces of evil away, in the name of Jesus Christ I pray. Amen.
And bless ---- and his family in the same way. In Jesus' name, Amen. Agape
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