Posted 2-4-01
What do you think? Could this be a valid interpretation of scripture?
Letter of Warning, by Sheila Lewis Busby: sheila@lookup.org http://www.lookup.org/warningletter.htm
I don't think so. There are several things that Sheila doesn't understand, and she may have closed her mind to two Raptures. Otherwise, she sounds like she is sincere and willing to learn. If so, maybe I can help. I'll send her a Cc of this.
> > There is a sword coming....The sword I am referring to is called the GREAT TRIBULATION.
I don't know of any place that the Tribulation is called a sword. However, the Sword of the Lord is the asteroid that will impact Earth on the 2300th day (Dan. 8:13,14) of the shortened Tribulation. This will be the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath.
> > Many Christians have been taught that they will be raptured out before the great tribulation begins, but does the Bible really teach that?
Yes, it does. There are two groups of people seen in Heaven after a Rapture. The first is in Rev. 5:9. They are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." They are there to see Christ given the little book, the seven-sealed Title Deed to the Earth. They have to be Raptured before the Tribulation, because they are in Heaven before the little book is given Christ and before any seals could possibly be broken. The seals can't be broken before he gets the book. These saints are in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 and the 1st seal is broken in Rev. 6. Thus, they are in Heaven before the Tribulation. They are not just the elders, either. All those are Israelites. These saints are out of all nations.
John is one of the 24 elders. Twelve are the patriarchs of Israel, and 12 are the apostles. All are caught up at the same time John is caught up in Rev. 4:1. Immediately, in v. 4, we see all 24 sitting on their thrones. All the Bride group of saints are caught up at the same time, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should NOT be made perfect" (Heb. 11:40). If they are caught up, we are caught up with them.
The second group seen in Heaven get there between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals. They are the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" that stand before the throne in Rev. 7:9. Who are they? Rev. 7:14 tells us, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Notice that the 1st group did not have to wash their robes. The 2nd group did. They were left behind at the 1st Rapture.
Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise believer) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
These unhappy ones are cast outside the door if they show up at the wedding feast without a white wedding garment. Mt. 22:12-14 says, "he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless (like the Laodiceans, he thought he had it made, but he didn't). Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and TAKE HIM AWAY, and cast him into outer darkness (outside the door darkness), there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. For many are called, but few are chosen." Those with Christ at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture are "called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).
> > brethren (believers), YOU have no need of anything to be written to YOU. For YOU yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
> > While THEY are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon THEM suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.
> > But YOU, brethren (believers), are not in darkness, that the day should overtake YOU like a thief;"
> >It seems that Paul associates the rapture with the beginning of the "day of the Lord"... rapture then wrath!
I have capitalized YOU and THEY or THEM to make it easy to see that there are two groups here, "YOU" believers, and "THEY," the unbelievers upon whom God's wrath will fall on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation.
Mal. 4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD." Elijah prophesies during the first 1260 days of the Tribulation (Rev. 11:3). The Day of the Lord can't come until after Elijah comes.
> > to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for [it will not come] unless the APOSTACY comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God."
> > Here again he is identifying "our gathering together to Him" [what else could this be but the rapture] with "the day of the Lord," and maintains that this cannot occur until "the man of lawlessness is revealed
Our gathering to Him is the Rapture, but the APOSTASY does not come first, the Rapture does. The word "apostasia" means the departure, i.e., the Rapture. It was translated as the departure in early Bibles. The departure comes first, then the False Prophet is revealed when he confirms the 7-year peace covenant of Dan. 9:27. This can be seen as we read on. II Thess. 2:6-8 (NEB) says, "you must now be aware of the restraining hand which ensures that he (the False Prophet) shall be revealed only at the proper time (the beginning of the Tribulation, when he confirms the covenant). For already the secret power of wickedness is at work, secret only for the present UNTIL THE RESTRAINER (the Holy Spirit) DISAPPEARS FROM THE SCENE (when he takes the Bride of Christ to Heaven). And then (tote, AT THE SAME TIME) he will be revealed, that wicked man." So first, the False Prophet cannot be revealed until the Rapture takes place, and second, the departure (Rapture) must take place before the False Prophet is revealed. The two things agree. This passage is at the beginning of the Tribulation and has no connection with the millennial Day of the Lord that begins on the 2300th day of the Tribulation other than that the Rapture and the revealing of the False Prophet must precede it.
> > Matthew 24, Mark13, and Luke 21 seem to have a consistent order to them. "When you see the abomination of desolation"... "then there will be great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall" [worse than the holocaust?]... "but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short"... "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"... "and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." (Matt 24)... " from the farthest end of the earth, to the farthest end of heaven." (Mark 13.)
The 1st Rapture is before the Tribulation. The 2nd Rapture is on the Day of God's Wrath, but just before the wrath falls. On this day, both those that were caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture and those that are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture are called to the assembly in Heaven to get their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Mt. 24:31 is when those already in Heaven are gathered to the assembly. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other." Here none are caught up from the Earth.
Mark 13:17 is different. It lists both the group being gathered in Heaven and the group that is just then being caught up from Earth. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Tribulation saints, caught up on the 2300th day of the Tribulation) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (the Bride saints that were taken there Pre-Trib).
In Luke 21:34-36, Jesus speaks of both YOURSELVES (believers) and THEM (unbelievers). He said, "take heed to YOURSELVES (believers), lest at any time YOUR hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon YOU (believers) unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all THEM (unbelievers) that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch YE (believers) therefore, and pray always, that YE may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass (the Tribulation), and to stand before the Son of man" (at the Pre-Trib Rapture, as those saints do in Rev. 5:9).
The wise virgins are the Bride group that go with the Bridegroom when he comes the 1st time. They are ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass." The foolish virgins are those that are NOT "ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass" They will have to endure their portion with the unbelievers (Lu. 12:46).
> > some people, most people I've talked to, have the sign in the sun, moon, and stars happening three times in order to make their chronology work. Is that kosher? Well, what do you think?
The signs in the Sun, Moon and "astrois," Constellations, of Lu. 21:25 come before the 1st Rapture. When we see them, we are to look up, and lift up our heads; for our redemption at the Rapture draws nigh (Lu. 21:28).
When the Sun is "darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars (aster, asteroids) shall fall from heaven" (Mt. 24:29), it is after the 6th seal is broken. Mk. 13:25 is at that same time. The 6th seal is broken in Rev. 6:12,13, "and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth."
> > Acts 2:20 'The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. (see also Joel 2:31)
The 6th seal is broken on the last day of this age. The 7th will be broken on the next day, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. This passage in Acts agrees with those in Mt. 24 and Mk. 13.
> > did the Bible ever say that the great tribulation is God's wrath?
No. God's Wrath is one day, the first day of the Millennium. The Tribulation is chastisement. Rev. 3:19 says of those left behind at the 1st Rapture, "As many as I love, I rebuke and CHASTEN: be zealous therefore, and repent." They do repent, for by the 2nd Rapture, they have washed their robes in the blood of Christ and made them white (Rev. 7:14).
> > When did those in Noah's day (who were "marrying") and those in Lot's day (who were "buying" and "planting") realize what was going on? (Mt 24:37-39; Luke 17:26-33) They didn't realize anything until the very day that God's wrath came! And of course it comes as no surprise that men are fearful of the day of the Lord! (Isa 13:6-8)
The Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah. No fire fell that day. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the days of Lot. Fire fell that same day (Lu. 17:29).
> > could His coming at the rapture have been imminent before the Jews were back in their land?
No, but it is never said to be imminent at any time. That is man's teaching, not the Bible's.
> > Matt 24:36-37 reads, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be..." The very words "that day and hour" would make us ask "what day and hour" and cause us to look for the antecedent in this passage to which "that day" is referring. It seems to say that no one will know the exact day and hour of the coming of the Son of Man.
Mt. 24:35,36 says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." I think we can now know what day and hour part of the heavens and part of the elements of Earth will pass away. I think it will be when the asteroid impacts Earth on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007).
II Peter 3:5-7 says, "this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of old, and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the HEAVENS and the EARTH, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against THE DAY OF JUDGMENT (the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Day of God's Wrath) and perdition of ungodly men." It is talking about the HEAVENS and the EARTH being destroyed on "THE DAY," one particular day.
Verse 10 says, "the day of the Lord (the Millennium) will come (1st day) as a thief in the night (Rev. 3:3, i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture will precede God's Wrath); in the which the HEAVENS shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the EARTH also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." That is "THE DAY." I think it is Sept. 13, 2007.
NOON is THE HOUR. Zeph. 2:3-5 says of the asteroid that will impact the Mediterranean Sea, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (Raptured) in the day of the LORD's anger (the Pre-Wrath Rapture). For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" Job 20:23 says, "When he (the wicked one, the False Prophet) is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of his wrath upon him, and shall rain it upon him while he is eating."
> > First of all, I used to be "pre-trib" and I would much rather be raptured out before the great tribulation begins. (I invite anyone to help me return to my pre-trib beliefs:-)
Get ready. Use I Jn. 1:9. You can be raptured before the Tribulation. Reread Lu. 21:36. Those accounted worthy can escape "ALL" the Tribulation. If you have other questions I haven't covered, don't hesitate to ask.
> > The Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal.
What he fails to see is that there are 2 Raptures. He used to believe the Rapture was Pre-Trib. I really enjoyed reading what he wrote in a little Messianic Jewish bulletin I used to get. Then, all of a sudden, he was not with them anymore, and he was teaching about the Pre-Wrath Rapture. He just didn't put them both together. Both are true. That is why it is confusing. Agape
I have a software program that allegedly searches the entire Old Testament (in it's Hebrew form) in accordance with that theory. With that software program I have done a wee search for 'www', 'prophecy'. 'corner', and 'discovery'.
I have sent an image of the results that were achieved with that program attached to this email. A picture really does cut down on my need to explain what on earth I am talking about. So, if you'll have a look at it, you'll see what it shows.
Now, I don't want you to think that I base anything at all on this Bible Code. If it lines up with the Gospel, great. But, the Gospel and Salvation, and all the things that go together to make of the Truth of God and His Son Jesus Christ are really more tantamount I think than any codes that may appear in the Old Testament.
I just though that it was interesting to find out if there were any indications in the Bible Code concerning the Prophecy Corner and the work that you do in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Agape
Thanks for this information. Very interesting indeed. It is amazing that www, prophecy, and corner all turned up at 216 ELS in the same chapter, Psa. 74, which only has 23 verses. I didn't deliberate one minute on what to name the web site. It just came to me as I started to type.
Psa. 74:9,10 says, "We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long. O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?" V. 19 says, "O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked." Agape
My daughter, Lora, and I were up late. We were talking about her wedding, which will take place Feb. 24th, 2001. She was reading from the scriptures trying to pick out from the gospels what she wanted to be read at her ceremony. As she read different passages, ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE HEARD HUMMING OF VOICES, COMING FROM THE KITCHEN AREA RIGHT INTO OUR LIVING ROOM, WHERE WE WERE SITTING.
THE ROOM WAS FILLED WITH THIS AWESOME, ELECTRIFING PRESENCE. THE VOICES WERE VERY SOMBER. WE HEARD THEM SINGING THE LORD'S PRAYER "OUR FATHER", OVER AND OVER AGAIN. EVERYTIME THEY ENDED THE SINGING THE PRAYER, THEY WOULD PROCLAIM, SPEAKING THE FOLLOWING WORDS; "THE LORD'S COMING IS NEAR"; THEN THEY PRAISED HIS NAME.
SUCH ANOINTING FELL UPON US, THAT WE WERE MOVED TO JOIN OUR HANDS TOGETHER IN LIFTED THEM UP, PRAYING AND PRASING THE LORD, ALONG WITH THE VOICES. WE WERE SO OVERWHELMED, THAT TEARS POURED DOWN OUR FACES, AS THE ANOINTING FILLED EVERY CORNER OF THE ROOM. I OPENED MY EYES, AND I SAW THIS (CLOUD, OR WHAT WOULD DESCRIBE IT BETTER; THE ROOM WAS FILLED, WITH "A HOLY FOG OF WHITE SMOKE". ALL I COULD DO WAS PROCLAIM OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AS I WAS SO MOVED TO DO THIS, I SAID "LORA THERE ARE ANGELS ALL AROUND US, THERE ARE ANGELS IN EVERY CORNER OF THE ROOM" I SAID THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AS THE ANOINTING GOT STRONGER AND STRONGER.
THEN I WAS MOVED BY THE SPIRIT TO PRAY IN TONGUES, THIS ELECTRICAL TINGLING CHARGE RAN THOUGH OUR BODIES FROM HEAD RIGHT DOWN TO OUR TOES.
WE PRAYED AND WORSHIP GOD FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR AS THE PRESENCE WAS SO STRONG AND TEARS STREAMED DOWN OUR FACES. WE WERE BATHE IN THIS GLORIOUS, AWESOME PRESENCE.
MY DAUGHTER WAS SQUEEZING MY RIGHT HAND TIGHTLY WHILE WE LIFTED THEM UP TO THE LORD IN PRAYER.
I FELT NO PAIN! EARLIER, THAT DAY I HAD BURNED MY FINGERS WHEN I WAS USING A HOT GLUE GUN AND SOME OF THE GLUE FELL ON MY FINGERS AND BURNED THEM, THAT THEY HAD BLISTERED. MY MIDDLE FINGER HAD A HUGE BURN AND BLISTER AND BETWEEN THE FIRST FINGER AND MIDDLE FINGER WERE TWO SMALLER BLISTERS. JUST PRIOR TO THIS EXPERIENCE I EXPERIENCING PAIN DUE TO THE BURNS ON MY HAND; HOWEVER FROM THAT MOMENT THERE WAS NO PAIN AT ALL! PRAISE THE LORD!
I DECIDED TO WRITE DOWN THIS EXPERIENCE ON PAPER, IT WAS 2:00 AM. MY FINGERS TODAY HAVE ALMOST TOTALLY HEALED, AS IF THE HEALING PROCESSES WAS SPEEDED UP, 99% HEALED; AND STILL NO PAIN, PRAISE GOD!
MY DAUGHTER AND I ARE SO BLESSED TO HAVED SHARE THIS EXPERIENCE TOGETHER, WE WILL NEVER FORGET IT AS LONG AS WE LIVE. THE ANOINTING STILL LINGERS AND I SLEPT LIKE A BABY.
I BELIEVE THAT THE MESSAGE IS LOUD AND CLEAR.
AS MY DAUGHTER IS PREPARING FOR HER SOON COMING WEDDING TO MEET HER BRIDEGROOM, SO THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT. WE ARE TO BE PREPAIRING FOR OUR SOON COMING BRIDEGROOM, 'WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLE', SO THAT WE MAY BE COUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE GOD'S WRATH, WHICH WILL SOON FALL UPON THOSE ALL WHO LIVE ON THIS EARTH.
THE LORD LOVES HIS CHILDREN HE WANTS US TO BRING EVERYTHING TO HIM IN PRAYER. HE WANTS US TO BE READY, FOR THESE ARE SOMER AND TRYING TIMES. EARTHQUAKES, SIGNS IN THE SUN, THE MOON, IN THE HEAVENS, WARS AND RUMOR OF WARS; FOR EXAMPLE OVER JERUSALEM, ETC. ETC.
LET ME REPEAT IT AGAIN THE MESSAGE IS LOUD AND CLEAR!
"THE LORD'S COMING IS NEAR" EVEN AT THE DOOR!
EVEN SO COME LORD JESUS, THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE, CRY COME!
HIS humble servant, Valerie
The sub title on these notes is "5 raptures in the first resurection";
1) Christ and the saints at His resurrection
2) The pre-trib rapture
3)The 144,000 caught up in the middle of Daniels week...calling these 144,000 "the manchild".
4)The "great multitude" at pre-wrath
5)The visible rapture of the two witnesses.
Is is interesting and perhaps one could count even more examples(from the old testament) as rapture events.
I read a lot of conflicting information regarding the identity of the manchild in revelations. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
I would urge those who value this website, it's information and forum to support Marilyn in her efforts to keep it going for us all. Agape
I disagree with this one and the placement of #5. I think the man child represents the two witnesses, Moses and Elijah, who are caught up to Heaven Mid-Trib.
The time that the man child is caught up is Mid-Trib plus 3.5 days, right after Satan is cast down to Earth as the last 1260 days of the Tribulation begin. The man child can't be Christ. He was caught up in 30 AD. It can't be the main Bride of Christ. She is caught up before Christ gets the little book, the Title Deed of the Earth, before the 1st seal is broken. Moses and Elijah are caught up right after the 4th seal is broken, when Death (the False Prophet) and Hell (Satan) ride forth. Rev. 6:8 says, "behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him (he is Satan-possessed). And power was given unto THEM over the fourth part of the earth, TO KILL with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
These are Rapture events as I see it.
(1) Enoch, Gentile type of the Pre-Trib Rapture, no fire
(2) Elijah, Israelite type of the Pre-Wrath Rapture that includes the 144,000 Israelites, Elijah taken up in a chariot of fire
(3) Bride of Christ, Pre-Trib
(4) Moses and Elijah, Mid-Trib
(5) Pre-Wrath Rapture on 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14), the day the fire falls
The 144,000 of Israel are caught up with the great multitude after the 6th seal is broken and before the 7th seal is broken. As far as I can tell, the 144,000 are the only ones that are added to the Bride group. They are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:3-5). All those mentioned in Rev. 7 come out of the Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:14). Thanks. Agape
First, it seems that the Rapture will be on a feast day. Heb. 12:22-25 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY (panegurei, a festal assembly, Thayer) and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall NOT WE ESCAPE, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven" (when he says, "Come up hither, Rev. 4:1).
Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE (ekpheugo, to vanish from) all these things (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
I think Song of Sol. 2:10-14 shows that the Rapture is likely in the spring, when the rains are over and gone and there are green figs and firstripe grapes. The former rain is in Tishri, the latter rain in Nisan. That knocks out 6 feasts, 3 in Tishri and 3 in Nisan. The only feast left is Pentecost. On it the church was born into the world. It would be a likely time for the church to be born into another new world. On that day in 30 AD, the clock stopped for Israel. It would be very like God to restart it on Pentecost as the Tribulation begins right after the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Song of Sol. 2:12 says, "and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land. Psa. 74:19 says, "O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked." Song 2:14 says of the Bride, "O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock" (i.e., in Christ).
See the article on my Home Page for more information. Agape
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