Posted 7-4-01
It's true that there could be a high price of casualties, as in any war, but the longer we push this off, the higher will be the price. The Arabs have a clear strategy of threatening our very existence, in that they will block our reservists from getting to bases and preventing the army from defending its citizens. We must pay the price now, so that it will not be ten times higher later.'-"
Interestingly Isaiah 26: v 17-21 and Zephaniah 2:3 speak of this season also. What are your thoughts. Could this be the rapture? Certainly points to it. Blessings to you and Ed . Hopefully we will all meet soon in the clouds of glory! ysic
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=13501&rtn=/articles.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1 (Koenig's Internat'l News)
The Approaching Season: The 17th of Tamuz (July 8) to the Ninth of Av (July 29)- Barbara Richmond
...9TH AV 1200 B.C.- Israel told by God in the wilderness that generation would not enter The land of promise. 586 B.C .- The Babylonian army destroyed the Holy Temple. 70 C.E. - Titus and the Roman army destroyed the Holy Temple...
Historically, the twenty-one days extending from the 17th of Tammuz until the 9th of AV represented a notable time of bitterness and destruction for the Jews....On the 17th of Tammuz 70 C.E. the Romans breached the walls of Jerusalem....
(5) The ancient leaders recognized that the righteous must be hidden in the secret place of the Most High during this time of trouble, which they believed was a dress rehearsal for the birth pangs of Messiah. In Isaiah 26:17-21, the prophet Isaiah speaks of a season when the righteous are directed to hide themselves while wrath and indignation take its course. Zephaniah 2:3 also prophetically forecasts a season when the Godly are directed to seek the Lord...seek righteousness... and seek humility and perhaps be hidden in the day of the Lord’s anger.....
On July 16, 1994, which is the 9th of Av on the Hebrew Calendar, the twenty-one pieces of Shoemaker-Levi comet began its bombardment on the planet Jupiter. Jupiter is commonly recognized as a symbol of idolatry and paganism. One of the most devastating events in the history of Israel occurred when the image of Jupiter was placed in the Temple of God. We continue to observe the feast of Hanukkah as a celebration of the victory of the Maccabees in removing this pagan god from the temple and re-instituting temple worship. It is clearly prophetically significant that the Shoemaker Levi comet began its assault on the planet Jupiter on this notable date. The Heavens declare the Glory of God. It is also significant that the comet was broken into twenty-one pieces also representing the twenty-one days extending from the 17th of Tammuz until the 9th of AV...
Even though Jupiter is a symbol of idolatry for the pagan world, it is also a term for righteousness in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew name for Jupiter is Tzedeq and comes from the word eaning "righteous" or "righteous one". It is from this term that the name Melchizedek is derived denoting "King of Righteousness". Clearly, we can see that Satan has perverted Jupiter into a symbol of idolatry.
These verses depict the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the results of the asteroid impact in the Mediterranean Sea on the Day of God's Wrath:
Isa. 26:19-21 says, "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come (yalak, COME AWAY), my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were FOR A LITTLE MOMENT, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity."
Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; BEFORE the decree (choq, appointment, set time) bring forth, BEFORE the day pass as the chaff, BEFORE the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, BEFORE the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS (TSEDEQ), seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (cathar, BE ABSENT) in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea (yam, large body of water; specifically (with the article), the Mediterranean Sea) coast, the nation (gowy, Gentile, heathen) of the Cherethites (who cut or tear away)! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan (that humbles and subdues), the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant."
> > 9TH AV 1200 B.C.- Israel told by God in the wilderness that generation would not enter The land of promise.
Only Caleb and Joshua (Gr. Jesus) made it. The spies went in at the time of the firstripe grapes. They came out with a large cluster of grapes 40 days later. I have wondered if they could represent the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Looking at Nu. 10:11 (Iyar 20),33 (3 days journey); 11:20 (1 month); 12:14 (7 days), 13:21, they would have come out after 40 days on Av 9 (July 29 in 2001), if we count Iyar 20 as day #1. It would be Av 10 if we count Iyar 21 as day #1. Jer. 52:12,13 says, "in the fifth month (Av), in the TENTH DAY of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD."
That time could be significant because we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and two earthly temples WENT UP IN FLAMES on Av 9 and 10. In 70 AD, the fire was started on the grounds on Av 9 and burned into the temple proper on Av 10. Elijah was taken up in a chariot of fire. Hmmmm, food for thought.
> > On July 16, 1994, which is the 9th of Av on the Hebrew Calendar, the twenty-one pieces of Shoemaker-Levi comet began its bombardment on the planet Jupiter.
That sure got the attention of the world. July 16, 1994 was Av 8, but at 6 PM, Av 9 began. That date was really emphasized for some good reason. Why? 1994 + 7 good years = 2001.
Some have said the tribulation period is part of the end Sabbath of 1000 years. However this seems unlikely since in Revelation it indicates that the 1000 years is a full period in and by itself---after the 2nd return.
Please tell me again why you have decided that the tribulation period is "not part of time" and how you came up with that conclusion and if you still believe it.
LIke most others I am re-assessing the times in which we live and still trying to see where we are on the timeline of prophecy. If it is true that the tribulation is not part of either the 6000 years or the 1000 year millenium then I may have a pretty good idea where we are. Therefore I would like to know how you came up with that idea.
Blessings to you and Ed
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2nd e-mail:
One verse below indicates that "a wise man's heart....DISCERNETH.....BOTH Time AND Judegment."
Ec 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.
Ec 8:6 Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.
In these verses I wonder if verse 5 alludes to "qualifying" for the Rapture by "keeping the commandment" and therefore that person "shall feel (experience) no evil thing"--that is the tribulation. Then in verse 6, right after the mention of the word "judgement" it says "THEREFORE the MISERY of man is great upon him." Could this be a reference to those that are going into the "judgement " of the tribulation ?
This leads me to believe that there is at least the possibility that when the 6000 years ends, there follows a period of JUDGEMENT , i.e. the Tribulation, that is NEITHER a part of the 6000 years NOR a part of the 1000 years of the millenium. That is, the period of judgement stands by itself as distinct from "time." If this is true and if there are to be 2000 Biblical years from the crucifixion until the time for the Judgement to start, then this explains the error in our expecting the Rapture to occur this year. The book of Revelation shows that the tribulation is NOT part of the 1000 year millenium. It also may not be part of the first 6 days of the 6000 years. In some future posts I will try to give some scriptural evidences that indicate this is indeed the case. It was Marilyn Agee that first wrote about there being a difference between "time and judgement."
Again, if this understanding is correct, then according to what I know about the prophecy of Hosea chapter 6:1-4, then we are not QUITE at the end of the 6000 years just yet. The date I see the conclusion of the 6000 period would be 2004 A.D.
More to come later. If any of the Doves or other readers have insight or comments on this then I would appreciate hearing from you. CAPS
Back c.1968, I figured that TIME and JUDGMENT were 2 different things. If not, why are they listed separately?. It says "both." I think TIME is 7000 years. That is when mankind is being tested being mortal and knowing both good and evil. I think there are 2 other blocks of years that are not counted as part of this 7000-year block, Adam's testing when he was innocent and the trial that is to come upon the whole world (Rev. 3:10), the Tribulation. It is called the "ENDS" of the Ages. I Cor. 10:11 says, "all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom THE ENDS (plural) OF THE world (aionos, AGES) ARE COME."
I think there are three 2000-year ages, the Age of the Gentiles (when God dealt with all mankind), the Age of the Jews (when God dealt mainly with the Jews), and the Age of the Church (when God is dealing mainly with the church). This 6000 years plus the Millennium is called TIME.
OUTSIDE OF TIME
Adam seems to have been tested in the Dispensation of Innocence 40 years. Forty means testing and probation. The Israelites were tested in the wilderness 40 years. The second Adam (Jesus) was tested 40 days. The years before TIME seem to be 40.
INSIDE OF TIME
The Ends of the Ages seem to run concurrently and are inserted between the normal end of the church age and the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord. Since we know from Dan. 9:27 how long the Age of the Jews will be extended, the End of the Age of the Gentiles and the End of the Age of the Church will be extended by the same amount. This extension is called JUDGMENT. The Lord showed it to us via the Jews, just as he brought all Scripture to us via the Jews. He used the Israelites to speak to the whole world.
This is a bit over-simplified, but the time line would look about like this:
40 yrs in Innocence - 2000 yr Age of Gentiles - 2000 yr Age of Jews - 2000 yr Age of Church - 7 yr Ends of the Ages - 1000-yr Day of the Lord
The whole world is to be tried during the Tribulation. At the end of the shortened Great Tribulation, the judgement will fall upon the whole world. Every wall will fall in the worldwide earthquake (Eze. 38:20).
> > if there are to be 2000 Biblical years from the crucifixion until the time for the Judgement to start, then this explains the error in our expecting the Rapture to occur this year.
I don't think the 2000 years of the Age of the Church began with the Crucifixion. I think they began when the wise men gave the nearly 2-year old boy Jesus gifts that indicated that he was Deity, King, and Priest in BC 3. According to this, the 2000 years would have ended in 5758 (1997/1998). That year was definitely marked. It was the 480th year of the Modern Parallels (5278 [Oct. 1517] + 480 = 5758). I expect the Tribulation to start this year, the 483rd year of the Modern Parallels. I have a file posted on the Modern Parallels.
When I figured out the Modern Parallels, I thought the Pre-Trib Rapture would take place in 5758 (1997/1998), because it was definitely marked and 8 means new order. Instead of the Rapture, it seems to have been the end of the 6000 years and the beginning of the four years in the parable of the barren fig tree. In the parable, Christ comes each of the first 3 years to check for fruit on the fig tree (Israel). He only speaks in the third year, saying, "Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?" (Luke 13:7). This may be a clue that the Rapture will take place in 2001 (1998 + 3 = 2001).
> > Again, if this understanding is correct, then according to what I know about the prophecy of Hosea chapter 6:1-4, then we are not QUITE at the end of the 6000 years just yet. The date I see the conclusion of the 6000 period would be 2004 A.D.
Note: I still think the Rapture will be in 2001, and that the end of the 6000 years was in 5758 (1997/1998).
I do not believe in the 360-year so-called prophetic year. I think the exact count of days in Daniel and Revelation lock them into the correct place in the calendar. They fit in the correct year. God set the Sun and Moon for days and years. Gen 1:14 says, "God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons (mowed, appointments, festivals, signals, as appointed beforehand), and for days, and years." We can't figure the feasts by the solar year and the events they prophesied by a 360-day year. They won't match up correctly. Both feasts and prophecies need to be figured by solar years. The Jews need aviv barley for Firstfruits. That is controlled by the solar year.
If I remember right, the solar year is about 365.25 days long. If we were to figure 360-day years in Dan. 9, it would not match solar years or come out right for a 30 AD Crucifixion. I don't think Sir Robert Anderson figured it correctly. As it is, it comes out perfect. Martin Anstey found an 82-year error in the era of the Persian kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454. Daniel's 483 yrs - 454 + 1 (no zero yr) = 30 AD, right on the mark. This agrees with all other time clues if we remember that Tiberius became Co-Rex with Augustus in 12 AD. Tiberius was completely in charge of Palestine from that time on. Augustus busied himself with other parts of his realm until his death in 14 AD. The temple was begun in BC 20/19. It had been 46 years in building at the 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry. I think Jesus was born in BC 5, went to the temple when 12 in 8 AD, and was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius, 26 AD. I believe that Jesus going to the temple in 8 AD to prepare for his mitzvah the next year is a clue that Jesus will come to his temple again in 2008 AD. The number 8 means new order. The Jewish year of the Second Advent would be 5768 (2007/2008).
Jesus speaks in Hos. 5:15. He says, "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early." Israel speaks in Hos. 6:1-3. They say, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (2000 years) will he revive us: in the third day 3rd millennium) he will raise us up (fulfilled in 1948), and we shall live in his sight. Then (after 1948) shall we KNOW, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, as the latter (malquowsh, spring rain, i.e., Second Advent on Nisan 1, Eze. 29:17,21) and former rain (yarah, prop. to rain, fig. to point out, as if by aiming the finger, to teach, i.e., First Advent on Tishri 1) unto the earth."
I believe the Tribulation is an inserted interval or gap. Isa. 28:17-23 prefigures it. That passage says, "Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell (Satan) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge (tsunami caused by the asteroid striking the Mediterranean Sea, Rev. 8:8) shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it. For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim (which means INTERVAL or GAP), he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK; and bring to pass HIS ACT, HIS STRANGE ACT. Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts A CONSUMPTION (kalah, destruction), EVEN DETERMINED UPON THE WHOLE EARTH. GIVE YE EAR, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech."
The Age of the Church is extended to the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath. Mt. 13:39-43 says, "The enemy that sowed them (the tares) is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (SUNTELEIA TOU AIONOS, CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE); and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (SUNTELEIA TOU AIONOS TOUTOU, CONSUMMATION OF THIS AGE). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
Five Dispensations are superimposed on the more general ages. Innocence was before the ages began. Kingdom is after the ages end. In these 5 Dispensations, man is tried under Conscience, Human Government, Promise, Law and Grace. The Dispensations are more accurate than the more general ages. The Dispensation of Law actually lasted until the Crucifixion in 30 AD. The Dispensation of the Church started with the Crucifixion. Agape
I used to have an orchard of 30 trees. One tree was a fig tree. Figs will show up before the leaves in June and the second crop shows up in September.
The term "fig tree puts forth figs" could apply either to Pentecost or to Rosh Hoshanah. When I pruned trees, I always wanted to do that in the fall or winter because the sap was beginning to go down into the roots and I wanted to store up the most energy to be directed to the branches capable of bearing the most fruit when spring came around again.
I agree that the turtle dove is seen in Israel from May to October. The translation LXX which you cited is very interesting when it says "the turtle dove HAS been heard." This might imply the fall as opposed to the spring.
Regarding Tammuz 17th. I grant you that it commemorates the destruction of the golden calf, but what would have happened if the people had been obedient? Perhaps on that date a remnant who has been faithful will be rewarded. That would be a sad day (consistent with a fast) for Israel, because their most heartfelt supporters are true believers in their Messiah.
Let me know what you think. This is a very, very exciting time. Agape
> > Figs will show up before the leaves in June and the second crop shows up in September
Thanks a bunch. No wonder the fig tree represents Israel. She showed up in 1948, before she grew leaves in the Six-Day War in June, 1967. I think she will have the second crop September 13, 2007.
> > Tammuz 17th. I grant you that it commemorates the destruction of the golden calf, but what would have happened if the people had been obedient? Perhaps on that date a remnant who has been faithful will be rewarded.
That's possible. Isn't it strange that Moses threw down the two stone tablets on Tammuz 17 and the Shoemaker-Levy-9 comet pieces started to hit Jupiter on Av 9 (July 16, 1994), two dates commemorated by the Jews? The year 1994 + 7 good years = 2001 too.
However, I favor a major feast day instead of a minor fasting day. The Bride of Christ was an important part of his plans that were made before the world began. Heb. 12:18-23 says, "ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire (Mt. Sinai)...And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words...ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly (panegurei, FESTAL assembly; Thayer) and church (ekklesia, called out ones) of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant." Agape
Seeing that when the temple was destroyed when Jesus was alive, that it wasn't until the END of 40 years, don't you agree now that when Jesus said this generation shall NOT pass until ALL this is fulfilled - 1967 plus 40 years, means we won't go UP until 2007 and then the trib starts? I believe we have to WAIT until the END of the 40 years for the rapture now. Thanks!
> > don't you agree now that when Jesus said this generation shall NOT pass until ALL this is fulfilled - 1967 plus 40 years, means we won't go UP until 2007 and then the trib starts?
No, I don't agree. Mt. 24:32-34 says, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel grafted into her old rootstock) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., not over 19, Ex. 30:14), and putteth forth leaves (grows, as she sprouted Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, Sinai and West Bank in the Six-Day War of 1967), ye know that summer is nigh (that war started June 5; summer started June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (Israel back in the land and growing leaves), know that it (the Rapture) is NEAR, even at the DOORS (thura, ENTRANCES). Verily (amen, so be it, i.e., this is both sure and important) I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till ALL THESE THINGS (BOTH ENTRANCES OR RAPTURES) be fulfilled (ginomai, FINISHED)."
The entrances are the two Raptures, one Pre-Trib, the other Pre-Wrath. The first "open door" is set before the Philadelphians. For them, Jesus has no words of condemnation. At the first "trump of God," they will go through the first door around 7 years before the Tribulation saints go through the 2nd door at the "last trump." The last Rapture has to take place by the time one generation ends. Therefore, the 1st Rapture would take place about 7 years ahead of that.
I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints will take place on the Feast of Trumpets on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Counting back 7 of those feasts lands us on the Feast of Trumpets on Tishri 1, 5762 (Sept. 18, 2001). The feasts, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, would fall on the days below. I wonder if the 2 Raptures could be on the 1st and 7th Feast of Trumpets. Since the latter half of the 7 years is to be shortened, there is no conflict.
(1) Tishri 1, 5762 (Sept 18, 2001)
(2) Tishri 1, 5763 (Sept 07, 2002)
(3) Tishri 1, 5764 (Sept 27, 2003)
(4) Tishri 1, 5765 (Sept 16, 2004)
(5) Tishri 1, 5766 (Oct. 04, 2005)
(6) Tishri 1, 5767 (Sept 23, 2006)
(7) Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept 13, 2007)
From Dec. 20, 2001 (by inclusive reckoning) to Nisan 1, 5768 (when I think the Second Advent will take place) is 2300 days, as in Dan. 8:13,14. The 70th week of Dan. 9:27 could start Dec. 20, 2001. Right now, the Holy Spirit in us is hindering the revealing of the False Prophet. If the Rapture is in the night of Sept. 17,18 (Jerusalem time), the Holy Spirit would stop hindering the False Prophet's appearance at that point. Things could then come to a head by Dec. 20. That is the last day of autumn.
The thing that has kept me from thinking the Feast of Trumpets could be the first Rapture is Song of Sol. 2:10-17 in the KJV. Here is Young's Literal Translation. It makes it sound more possible.
"My beloved hath answered and said to me, `RISE UP, my friend, my fair one, and COME AWAY, For lo, the winter hath passed by, The rain hath passed away--it hath gone. The flowers have appeared in the earth, The time of the singing hath come (we sing a new song after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9), And the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove, symbol of the Holy Spirit) was heard in our land (heard in Israel from Apr. to Oct.), The fig-tree hath ripened her green figs, And the sweet-smelling vines have given forth fragrance, RISE, COME, my friend, my fair one, yea, COME AWAY. My dove, in clefts of the rock (in Christ), IN A SECRET PLACE OF THE ASCENT, Cause me to see thine appearance, Cause me to hear thy voice, For thy voice is sweet, and thy appearance comely. Seize ye for us foxes, Little foxes--destroyers of vineyards, Even our sweet-smelling vineyards. My beloved is mine, and I am his, Who is delighting among the lilies, Till the day doth break forth, And the shadows have fled away, Turn, be like, my beloved, To a roe, or to a young one of the harts, On the mountains of separation!"
The mountains of separation speaks of the two Raptures. Bether in the KJV means separation. This is alluded to in Song 7:7 (KJV): "This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and they breasts to clusters of grapes." That just might be a clue that both Raptures would be during the vintage, and the Feast of Trumpets is during the vintage. Pentecost is not. It is the time of the firstripe grapes. The vintage is in Elul and Tishri.
The rain being over and gone seemed like the Rapture would be on Pentecost, because the latter rain stop after Nisan. Tishri 1 starts the time of the former rain, but if we were caught up in the night, that rainy season could start as soon as we are gone. The 2nd Rapture has to take place before noon on Tishri 1, because the asteroids impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5). Maybe the 1st one is similar in that we would be gone before noon on the Feast of Trumpets.
Have a wonderful 4th of July. Agape
p.s. that foto of the picture of Jesus in the tornado - I saw that several years ago.
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