Posted 10-11-01
12-19-01, is Teveth 3, 5762. I can't think of anything special happening on that day in Scripture. It is just 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14) before Apr. 6, 2008 (Nisan 1, 5768), when I think the Second Advent will take place on the same day the other Hebrew kings officially took office. Nisan 1 is the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year--Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is Lord of lords. That Nisan 1 is 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) after Tishri 1, because 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year.
Lots of people call the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 the Antichrist. I think the False Prophet will be the final Antichrist, because he will be Satan possessed. Rev. 20:10 says, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Isa. 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." The false prophet is called the tail of the great red dragon because Satan, the tail, is in him. He speaks "as a dragon" (Rev. 13:11).
Zech. 5:4 says of the curse, the asteroid, "I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet, a son of perdition like Judas Iscariot, a thief), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Tribulation Pope, who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."
This "stone like a great millstone" (Rev. 13:21), will cause the towers to fall. Isa. 30:25 says, "there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, WHEN THE TOWERS FALL." This makes the 9-11 fall of the WORLD Trade towers seem like a sign of the approaching Day of God's Wrath. Strange that 911 is the number to call in an emergency. Now you tell me about the 13 weeks fitting between 9-11 and 12-19 and remind me that 13 is Satan's number. hmmm Maybe that satanic looking face in the smoke was really there, as in a published photo. Sept. 13 was a very dark night too. (just as I think Sept. 13, 2007 will be the day of "thick darkness," Joel 2:1,2)
If you want the most accurate Tenach (Old Testament) you have to get Artscroll's Stone's Edition which is recognized by Jewish scholars as the most accurate translation available to date.
Place a copy of the Stone's edition next to any Christian Bible and you will see vast differences which can be at times, disturbing. I used to use the NASB but have found Stone's edition to be much, much better for studying Hebrew scripture.
When the Isaiah scroll found in the Qumran caves was read, Dr. Charles Fineberg, then Dean of Talbot Theological Seminary, said that it proved our KJV was a good translation. Only one place was pointed out that differed. In Isa. 53:9, the KJV has "And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death." In the Isaiah scroll, he made his grave with the rich, and was with the wicked in his death. Dr. Fineberg said that the Isaiah scroll proved that we had a reliable Bible in the KJV. Agape
We know that Jesus would not break any part of the Law. Yes, Jesus later called it a vision, but that should not be taken as saying the EVENT and encounter with the persons of Moses and Elijah did not occur.
I have an opinion on this, but I would like to get your thoughts first.
Also, Moses and Elijah , according to the text, SPOKE ( I.E. COMMUNICATED) with Jesus re the events that would happen to him surrounding the crucifixion "that He would accomplish " in Jerusalem. That sounds to me like He was ACTUALLY communicating to Eijah and MOSES. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED BY THE LAW IN ANY WAY INCLUDING A "VISION."
To say it was "only" a vision or a dream is to miss what was going on here. Jesus WAS LITERALLY TRANSFIGURED BEFORE THOSE 3 disciples. He did communicate with Elijah and Moses. HE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
Also, the disciples had SEEN Jesus in His Glory. That confirmed that He was THE MESSIAH. That led the disciples to ask the question, "Why then do the scriptures say that Elijah MUST FIRST COME"......IMPLYING " BEFORE the Messiah is revealed." Jesus then goes on to say that "Elijah" had already come in the person of John the Baptist and yet Elijah was still to come in the future.
The true explanation to this scene where Jesus communicated with Moses and the disciples saw the scene is perhaps stranger than fiction. If there was no true communication then why do the scriptures indicate that JESUS HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MOSES AND ELIJAH ? This sounds like he was having a conversation with them exactly as if they were alive and present and knew what was going to happen.
No, the word "vision" means it was contact with another dimension that really happened.....not a dream. The disciples entered another dimension and SAW into that dimension. Moses was alive. Why in Jude does it speak about Michael disputing with the devil about the 'BODY' OF MOSES?! Here is why...for those who can receive it:
MOSES HAD ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED!!! That is why the devil disputed with Michael, because the devil was saying it was ILLEGAL for Moses to be resurrected "before the time."
Remember in the account of Elijah being taken into heaven in a whirlwind that Elisha said, when he saw the chariot, "...the chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof." This horseman was Michael who is assigned to the nation of Israel. I believe that the "Rapture" of Elijah included and was accompanied by the RESURRECTION of Moses to picture the Rapture of the CHURCH. those dead and those alive! The area where Moses died according to Deuteronomy 34 was around Beth-peor, very close to the JORDAN RIVER, but on the East side...since Moses could not cross over.
In II Kings 2 where the account is given of Elijah being taken into heaven it says both Elijah and Elisha went to Gilgal then to Behel and then to Jericho. Jericho is barely west of the Jordan river. Then in verse 6 of this chapter Elijah says "the LORD has sent me to the JORDAN (river)." At this time both prophets, Elijah and Elisha were on the WEST side of the Jordan. Then Elijah smote the waters of the Jordan and they both crossed over on dry ground to the EAST SIDE. If you will check a Bible map you will see that the place where Moses was buried was in this SAME AREA EAST OF THE JORDAN RIVER. THIS IS WHERE THE CHARIOT CAME TO PICK UP ELIJAH.
Several translations have II KIngs 2:12 saying "the chariot of Israel and the HORSEMEN thereof." Could this be a reference to the fact that both Michael and MOSES (i.e. plural) were on that chariot?
Why did God bury Moses Himself where nobody would know ?? It was a "SECRET." Why did the devil dispute with Michael about the 'BODY' OF MOSES ? Why did Elijah go to the area on the East side of the Jordan before his being taken to heaven... the area where Moses was buried? I believe this explains why Moses appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration. HE HAD BEEN RESURRECTED AND WAS NO LONGER DEAD.
It was therefore not contact with the dead!! Elijah pictures those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord and Moses, when he was raised from the dead, pictures those who were dead at the time of the Rapture--a perfect composite of the RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH. Evidently Michael picked up Moses before Elijah to picture the dead being raised FIRST!
Also, Moses died when He was exactly 120 years old. Why? The scriptures say he was not sick nor his natural strength gone. He died at age 120 years because he was to represent those who at the end of 120 Jubilee periods of 50 years each, i.e. at the end of 6000 years, would be resurrected!
The New Testament says that Jesus was the "Firstborn from the dead." However other had been raised from the dead before Jesus was . What is the exlpanation? Jesus was the First person to ever be raised from death to life to an immortal, glorified Body. Therefore, what ever body Moses was resurrected to could not have been of this type.
De 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Pr 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
I believe that the "searching out of this matter" reveals the exact composite picture of the RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH...THOSE DEAD AND THOSE ALIVE BEING CHANGED TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD.
> > re the "vision" explanation. However, Jesus was seen talking to Moses. That was communication with a "supposedly" dead person.
In the Lord's words, this is "the vision" (Mt. 17:9), as you said. Here is the way I see it. In this vision, Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah. To me, that doesn't mean that Moses and Elijah were physically in their bodies and present at the time. Jesus had not yet died and been resurrected, so I can't see how anyone could have been resurrected before Jesus. He was The Firstfruit. As you know, Mt. 27:52,53 says, "the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION." I Cor. 15:23 says, "every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; AFTERWARD they that are Christ's at his coming. I know that my human reasonings should not override these clear scriptures.
It seems clear that people can talk in a vision. We could look at Acts 16:9 for one example. It says, "a VISION appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, SAYING, Come over into Macedonia, and help us." We know that the Lord can speak in a vision. Acts 18:9 says, "Then SPAKE the Lord to Paul in the night by a VISION, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace."
> > If it was "just" a vision then it would still be CONTACT with the dead.
Maybe looking up the word translated vision can shed some light on this. Mt. 17:9 says, "as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell THE VISION (horama, something gazed at, a supernatural spectacle, sight, vision) to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." I look at this as somewhat like our viewing a movie. The people in the movie all look real because they were photos taken of real people, but what we are actually looking at are just pictures. We can't reach out and touch the actors. What man can do with photographic film, God can do without film.
> > why did Jesus TAKE the 3 disciples with him up to a high mountain?
It seems reasonable that it was because it is as we will see Him at the Rapture, when we will be caught up to a "high mountain." Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (natah, came down) unto me, and heard my cry. HE BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (as Jeremiah was pulled up out of the miry pit), and SET MY FEET UPON A ROCK (Heaven), and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." Rev 21:10 mentions this high mountain. It says, "he carried me away in the spirit to a great and HIGH MOUNTAIN, and shewed me that great city, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, descending out of HEAVEN from God."
> > There would be no need to take them any place if it was just a vision. They could have remained in Peter's house.
That's true, but the Lord doesn't miss a trick in giving us clues. The high mountain was to help us understand what he was trying to teach us. The unbeliever wouldn't get anything out of that clue, but we have the Holy Spirit to help us pick up on that clue. We will see Christ transfigured after we are caught up to Heaven, as in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:14-16.
> > That sounds to me like He was ACTUALLY communicating to Eijah and MOSES. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED BY THE LAW IN ANY WAY INCLUDING A "VISION."
It sounds like people are actually communicating in a movie, but their talking went on long before we see it. Does the Law really lay down any rules concerning how God can give a vision? Isn't the Law for man instead of for God? The Bible says that the Law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. We really can't limit God. He can do whatever he pleases. He has the power, and there is no higher authority to tell him what to do. Every time I think of this, I am so grateful that he is a good God. We have no power against Him, either way.
> > To say it was "only" a vision or a dream is to miss what was going on here. Jesus WAS LITERALLY TRANSFIGURED BEFORE THOSE 3 disciples. He did communicate with Elijah and Moses. HE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
Yet, "Jesus charged them, saying, Tell THE VISION to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead" (Mt. 17:9). We have it on the authority of God. We can't change that.
> > If there was no true communication then why do the scriptures indicate that JESUS HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MOSES AND ELIJAH ? This sounds like he was having a conversation with them exactly as if they were alive and present and knew what was going to happen.
> > No, the word "vision" means it was contact with another dimension that really happened.....not a dream. The disciples entered another dimension and SAW into that dimension.
When we watch a movie, we take it for granted that people talk with each other. Why does this seem so different? The word translated "vision" doesn't even hint at entering into another dimension.
> > Why in Jude does it speak about Michael disputing with the devil about the 'BODY' OF MOSES??!!! Here is why...for those who can receive it:
> > MOSES HAD ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED!!! That is why the devil disputed with Michael, because the devil was saying it was ILLEGAL for Moses to be resurrected "before the time."
I am guessing here for sure, because we have not been told, but the dispute about Moses' body seems to revolve around his returning to Earth during the first 1260 days of the Tribulation. In my mind, the clear teaching of Scripture is that none were resurrected before Christ was resurrected. I can see why Moses wasn't raptured, because that would have made us think there were 3 Raptures. There are only two, typified by Enoch and Elijah, but those only picture the living being taken up. We know from I Thess. 4:13-18 that the dead in Christ will come back with him and receive their resurrection bodies. Then the living will rise up with them to meet Christ in the clouds. Because of the resurrected saints, it seems that we should look for any clues that would tie in. At the same time, they can only be types if we find them, because no one could be resurrected until Jesus was resurrected.
Have you thought about this? I can't be certain, but I think Moses died and will come back to Earth from the dead during the first half of the Tribulation to prove something to the rich man in hell, and all like him. He said to Abraham, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him (Lazarus) to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but IF ONE WENT UNTO THEM FROM THE DEAD, THEY WILL REPENT. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:27-31) I think Moses himself will prove that's true. Man is given every chance, but some will not make it in spite of even that.
> > In II Kings 2 where the account is given of Elijah being taken into heaven it says both Elijah and Elisha went to Gilgal then to Bethel and then to Jericho.
I think I have figured out the symbolism of these places. See what you think. Gilgal means circle, wheel, or revolution of the wheel, which represents Heaven, visually, a disk, but actually a sphere that orbits and is even surrounded with 7 wheel-like rings. Bethel means the House of God, which is in Heaven. Jericho means his moon, his month, or his sweet smell. The new moon is the first of the month. This seems to be telling us that the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which Elijah was a type of, will take place on the new moon of Tishri, the Feast of Trumpets. That is the only feast that falls on a new moon.
> Elijah says "the LORD has sent me to the JORDAN (river)."
Jordan means the river of judgment. Crossing the Jordan is probably a type of crossing over to Heaven on the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. I expect that on Tishri 1, 5768.
> > Several translations have II KIngs 2:12 saying "...the chariot of Israel and the HORSEMEN thereof." Could this be a reference to the fact that both Michael and MOSES (i.e. plural) were on that chariot?
The KJV and all but one that I checked have "horsemen." I wonder if the horsemen could have been Michael and Gabriel too. We are not told there, but Mark 13:27 says, "then shall he send his ANGELS (plural), and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Food for thought.
> > The New Testament says that Jesus was the " Firstborn from the dead." However other had been raised from the dead before Jesus was. What is the exlpanation? Jesus was the First person to ever be raised from death to life to an immortal, glorified Body. Therefore, what ever body Moses was resurrected to could not have been of this type.
I feel sure that those like Lazarus that were brought back to life were in the same body they had before they died. They would die again later on. While thinking about Moses' body, here's another thing you might want to try to figure out. What kind of body will Elijah have during the Tribulation. He was raptured in OT times. In the Tribulation, he comes back, dies, then is resurrected.
I don't know much about different kinds of bodies. I looked at I Cor. 15. Verse 40 says there are celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial. I know the terrestrial fairly well, but don't know much about the celestial. Verse 42 says that it is sown in corruption and raised in incorruption. That's great. Verse 44 says, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." I believe it because Scripture says it, but it is not entirely clear to me, either.
You mentioned Paul being caught up to Heaven, and him still not knowing whether he was in the body or out of the body. If he don't know, I certainly don't....It's 12:47 AM. Gotta get some sleep. Shalom and agape
For Rev. 18 "Alas, alas' that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgement will come.
I see how you thought this was the WTC disaster cus you think this verse was NY but America will be judged by a nuclear bombs. America will be destroyed. IT ONLY TAKES 1 HOUR FOR AMERICA TO BE DESTROYED BY ATOMIC BOMBS. We will be bombed by Russia. Before this alll the people will trying to get out of the country and some of those people are gonning to be jews and they will return to israel.
"Now Learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tenderand puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near-at the doors! Assurredly, i say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till these things take place. Mark 13:28,29,30
In 1948 the jews became nation. So according to this passage this generation will not died with out with out all the end time bible prophecies to take place.
REMEMBER: BABYLON = AMERICA & FIG TREE = ISRAEL Thanks for your time. Great Website! Please Reply
> > In revelation it talks about a great city, Babylon, but it is really is talking about AMERICA all together not just New York.
Many years ago, in a darkened room, I saw a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2. I was in awe as I read, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces." I will be very glad to talk about the destruction of Babylon. She will be obliterated by the "aster" (asteroid) of Rev. 8:10, which is the "stone like a great millstone" of Rev. 18:21. It is also called the "flaming sword" in Gen. 3:24 and "The sword of the LORD" Isa. 34:6.
Jer. 23:18-20 says, "For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked (False Prophet). The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly." This could not be understood until asteroids were discovered.
I think Rev. 18 is really talking about Babylon in Iraq. Jer. 46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country BY THE RIVER EUPHRATES." The river Euphrates is in Iraq.
Listen to what the LORD has to say about "Babylon, and great destruction from the LAND OF THE CHALDEANS" (Jer. 51:54) in Iraq.
Jer. 51:36-45 says, "Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will plead thy cause, and take vengeance for thee (Israel was exiled to Babylon for 70 years; Iraq has attacked her)...Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, WITHOUT AN INHABITANT. (THAT HAS NOT YET HAPPENED, Saddam Hussein has been rebuilding it; those that work there live there) They shall roar together like lions: they shall yell as lions' whelps. In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. I will bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams with he goats. How is Sheshach (another name for Babylon) taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations! THE SEA IS COME UP UPON BABYLON: SHE IS COVERED WITH THE MULTITUDE OF THE WAVES THEREOF. Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby. And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his (the False Prophet's) mouth that which he hath swallowed up (Satan): and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall (when every wall will fall worldwide (Eze. 38:20). MY PEOPLE, GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER, AND DELIVER YE EVERY MAN HIS SOUL FROM THE FIERCE ANGER OF THE LORD."
That last part is echoed in Rev. 18:4,5 says, "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS, AND THAT YE RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."
When Babylon falls, every wall will fall worldwide. Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. "A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD...a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth" (Jer. 25:31-33). Rev. 16:19 says, "And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell (including New York): and great Babylon (in Iraq) came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."
Jer. 50:13 says, "Because of the WRATH of the LORD IT SHALL NOT BE INHABITED, BUT IT SHALL BE WHOLLY DESOLATE: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues." Babylon has never been this "wholly desolate." Saddam has been having annual festivals there. Her final destruction is still ahead. It will come on the Day of God's Wrath. I think that will be Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768, the Feast of Trumpets). Agape
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