Posted 11-16-01
The 2nd Rapture takes place after 6 PM, but before noon, when the asteroids impact Earth. Daniel 12:1,2 describes that. It says, "at that time (when the False Prophet shall come to his end) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."
How do we know that the "great mountain burning with fire" that is "cast into the sea" in Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea? Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel, 1948); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID (in Heaven) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod AT THE NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."
Who is headquartered in Gaza today? Are the nations right now preparing to divide God's land and form a Palestinian state? Did you hear what Bush said about it at the UN General Assembly Sunday? Joe 3:2 says, "I will also gather ALL NATIONS (Gog's united nations' army, not possible in 70 AD), and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and PARTED MY LAND."
It is funny how every time our President does something to further the Palestinian State, a disaster happens. Clinton did, and the hurricane Andrew hit Florida. Bush planned to give this speech on Sept. 11, 2001, then the WTC towers fell. Then NYC had a powerful storm. Drenching rain fell. Isa 30:25 says, "there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the TOWERS FALL." These towers will be those built for the One World Governmant and United Religions in Babylon, Iraq. Besides the Mediterranean waters overflowing the land at the asteroid impact, the waters will overflow the land because the asteroid impacts will turn the globe upside down. Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."
Bush's speech was put off till Nov. 11. He gave his speech Sunday, even deliberately naming the state Palestine (a first). The next day, another airplane disaster hits NYC. It seems that American flight 587 was broken apart by what must have been hurricane winds from the takeoff of a Japanese 747 just ahead of flight 587. Whatever they decide happened, that plane came down like the asteroids will impact earth as the Millennial Kingdom of Christ begins. As there will be 2 falling stones (Rev. 8:8,10), as there were 2 falling engines that came down separately from the rest of the plane. That boom people heard, was that God's thunder?
The unbelievers will be judged on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The Judgment Seat of Christ is after the Coronation of Christ, the Marriage of the Lamb, and the Pre-Wrath Rapture that day. The saints in Heaven will receive their rewards. At the same time, the unbelievers left on Earth will receive their just rewards for their unbelief. Rev. 11:16-19 says, "THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST, AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. And the four and twenty elders (previously caught up at the Pre-Trib Rapture, Rev. 4:1-4), which sat before God on their seats (thrones), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (the Second Advent is still 7 months future, Eze. 39:12,13); because THOU HAST TAKEN TO THEE THY GREAT POWER, AND HAST REIGNED. And THE NATIONS WERE ANGRY, AND THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, AND THAT THOU SHOULDEST GIVE REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS THE PROPHET, AND TO THE SAINTS, AND THEM THAT FEAR THY NAME, SMALL AND GREAT; AND SHOULDEST DESTROY THEM WHICH DESTROY THE EARTH. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
The worldwide earthquake (Eze. 38:20) will happen when the two asteroids (represented by the two stone tablets with the 10 commandments on them) impact the Earth at noon on the 1st day of the Millennium. This is why Moses threw down the stone tablets the first time and smashed them. Two stones will smash into Earth. One will destroy all but 1/6th of Gog's army (Eze. 39:2). The other will destroy Babylon, Iraq. Rev. 18:21 says, "a mighty angel took up A STONE like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be FOUND NO MORE AT ALL."
This has not happened yet. Babylon exists today. Saddam Hussein had his first annual Festival of Babylon there in 1987. When Babylon is finally wiped off the map, Jer. 50:13 says, "Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but AT SHALL BE WHOLLY DESOLATE: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues."
There is no way that these things happened in 70 AD. Someone is fooling themselves. These Preterists claim that the Rapture was not taught until 1830. That is preposterous. The apostles saw Jesus raptured. they knew that he said, "I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." They knew the prophecy of I Thess. 4:16-18, given c. 54 AD. It says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." The apostle John was caught up when Jesus said, "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1. He was one of the 24 elders seated on 24 thrones around the throne of god after the Rapture (Rev. 4:4). All 12 patriarchs of Israel and all 11 other apostles of Israel were caught up at the same time as John, and seated on their thrones.
Besides these 24 Israelites, there were other "saints" before the throne of God. They were "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation," not just out of Israel like the elders (Rev. 5:9).
In his approx. 1500-word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627 AD) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." (Alexander, Paul J. "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition [Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985] p. 210).
I copied the following from my copy of his whole sermon. This man understood what the Preterists do not. He expected it in his day, but he understood that the Rapture would precede the Tribulation.
"Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and PREPARE OURSELVES FOR THE MEETING OF THE LORD CHRIST, SO THAT HE MAY DRAW US FROM THE CONFUSION, WHICH OVERWHELMS ALL THE WORLD? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: 'Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord?' FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ELECT OF GOD ARE GATHERED, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION THAT IS TO COME, AND ARE TAKEN TO THE LORD LEST THEY SEE THE CONFUSION THAT IS TO OVERWHELM THE WORLD BECAUSE OF OUR SINS.
"And there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been since people began to be on earth...and no one is able to sell or buy of the grain of the harvest, unless he is the one who has the serpentine sign sign on the forehead or the hand. And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know and on the day which the enemy or the son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints".
The Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30) will be seen on the last day of this age, just before 6 PM, when the millennial Day of the Lord begins. Rev. 6:14-17 says, "the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"
Jesus commanded us "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE (in the Pre-Trib Rapture) all these things that shall come to pass (in the 70th week of Daniel, the Tribulation), and to stand before the Son of man."
The Preterists even believe that the 70th week of Daniel happened in the 1st century. Dan 9:24-27 says, "Seventy weeks (of years, 490 years) are determined upon thy people (Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression (it hasn't been finished yet), and to make an end of sins (they haven't stopped yet), and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness (it hasn't happened yet), and to seal up the vision and prophecy (all the prophecies have not been fulfilled yet), and to anoint the most Holy (Christ hasn't been anointed yet). Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (49 years), and threescore and two weeks (434 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times (it was, in BC 454). And after threescore and two weeks (483 years) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself." The Crucifixion was in 30 AD, 483 years after BC 454. 483 - BC 454 + 1 because there is no zero year = 30 AD.
Continuing in Dan. 9, "and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (the False Prophet, the final Pontifex Maximus) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (the Romans, not Israelis, burned Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD); and the end thereof (of the False Prophet's rule) shall be with a flood (caused by the asteroid impacts), and unto the end of the war (Armageddon) desolations are determined. And he (the False Prophet) shall confirm (strengthen) the covenant (probably Oslo Accords) with many (maybe the UN/OWG) for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (when he takes over from THE BEAST after 1260 days, Rev. 13:5) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (because he will sit in the temple 'shewing himself that he is God," II Thess. 2:4), and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he shall make it (the temple) desolate, even until the consummation (of Armageddon), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (desolator). Agape
For better than 40 years, I have been trying my best to understand all of Scripture, not guess, although on the way to understanding some sticky passages, it is sometimes necessary to guess and then prove or disprove that by Scripture. I'm sure now that both the "great mountain burning with fire" in Rev. 8:8 and the "great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:10 are asteroids. I'll tell you some of my reasons, then see what you think.
Remember that Isa 28:9-13 says, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? (the church when she is old; Heb 5:14 says, 'STRONG MEAT belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.') and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; HERE A LITTLE, AND THERE A LITTLE; THAT THEY MIGHT GO, AND FALL BACKWARD, AND BE BROKEN, AND SNARED, AND TAKEN." Scripture is written so that prophecy won't be understood by the wicked. Dan. 12:10 says, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND; BUT THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND."
Rev. 8:8-11 says, "the second angel sounded, and as it were (symbolic language) a great mountain (not a mountain, but symbolized by a mountain as being something capable of being understood in the days before asteroids were discovered in the 1800's) burning with fire was CAST (ballo, THROWN VIOLENTLY) into the sea" (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5). How can a chunk of soil and rock be burning? only if it is heated by atmospheric friction as it comes in very fast through the air. A mountain standing on Earth does not suddenly raise itself up in the air, catch fire and fall into the sea. A volcano can belch out fiery rock bombs, but no mountains. The lava runs into the sea sometimes, leaving hollow tunnels behind. That will not fill the bill. A mountain-sized asteroid comes in from space, breaks up somewhat at the Roche Limit, about 11,000 miles out, bursts into flames as it descends at tremendous speed through the atmosphere, and can fall into the sea as easy as it can fall on land.
Continuing in Rev. 8, "and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR (aster, star, asteroid, or flaming meteor) from heaven, burning as it were (symbolic language) a lamp (lampas, lamp, light, torch)." It is not an oil-burning torch, but it looks like one as it descends.
Continuing, "and IT FELL upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And THE NAME OF THE STAR (ASTER) IS CALLED WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood (meaning bitter); and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
This 2nd asteroid is the one described in Rev. 18:21. It says, "a mighty angel took up a STONE like (symbolic language) a great millstone (not a millstone, but a large stone), and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be THRONE DOWN (ballo, cast or thrown down violently), and shall be found no more at all." This has not happened yet.
Jer 23:18-20 says, "who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD (Moses at Sinai and with Elijah at the Transfiguration), and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? (I have, he said, "Be still and know that I am God," and there are many others; to some he said that they would never die; I know one personally). Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury (it's the Day of God's Wrath), even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked (the False Prophet). The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the LATTER DAYS ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly." Only in the latter days have we known what an asteroid was. Therefore, these latter days started when Ceres was discovered by Piazzi on 1-1-1800. It is therefore certain that we are living in the latter days. Those living in 70 AD were not living in the latter days.
Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high (in the heavens), and that graveth (chaqaq, to hack, to enact laws cut in stone tablets) an habitation for himself in A ROCK (first on his planet Rahab that split apart, then on a piece of Rahab, an asteroid called Wormwood)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away (tuwl, cast down) with a mighty captivity (taltelah, overthrow, rejection), and will surely cover (atah, turn aside) thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE (symbolic language) A BALL (not a ball, but similar to one) INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (IRAQ): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station (matstsab, military post), and from thy state (am'amad, office, place) shall he pull thee down" (harac, throw down, break in pieces). Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ, Isa. 53:1); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old (i.e., before Adam). Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split or quarry stone) Rahab (Satan's planet), and wounded the dragon (Satan)?" The same kind of thing that split Rahab will destroy Babylon in the latter days, more exactly, in "the end." Therefore Rahab was split by a "stone" (Rev. 18:21).
Psa. 89: 10-11 says of the God, "Thou hast broken Rahab (Satan's planet) in pieces (now it's the Asteroid Belt), as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies (Satan and his fallen angels) with thy strong arm (the pre-incarnate Christ, Isa. 53:1). The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them."
Eze. 7:5-8 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; An evil, AN ONLY EVIL (the asteroid impact), behold, is come. An end is come, THE END is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come. The morning is come unto thee, O thou that dwellest in the land: the time is come, the day of trouble is near (starts at 6 PM on the last day of this age), and not the sounding again of the mountains (nations). Now will I shortly (at noon, Zeph. 2:4,5) pour out MY FURY upon thee, and accomplish MINE ANGER upon thee: and I will JUDGE THEE (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) according to thy ways, and will recompense thee for all thine abominations."
It looks like a binary asteroid is the curse that will hit Earth. It will break in two at the Roche Limit. Zech. 5:1-4 says, "I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (rolling thing). And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (rolling thing); the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits (the asteroid is twice as long as wide). Then said he unto me, THIS IS THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH (orbits) OVER THE FACE (surface) OF THE WHOLE EARTH (i.e., orbits around Earth): for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it (what one stone tablet with commandments on it represented); and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it (what the other stone tablet with commandments on it represented). I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (FALSE PROPHET, who steals the world church and the bank accounts of those that will not take the Mark of the Beast), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Pope, THE BEAST, who says he's infallible): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof. " Their towers will fall in Babylon on the Day of God's Wrath, the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, on the same day that Christ will receive his kingdom. He will be crowned in Heaven. The Second Advent is 7 months afterward (Eze. 39:12,13).
The binary asteroid seems to have been symbolized by the flaming sword of Gen. 3:24. It says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (planets in the sky), and a flaming sword (chereb, cutting instrument, i.e., a piece of his cherubim, planet), which turned every way (rotated as it orbited), to keep the way of (to) the tree of life." This seems to refer to the planets as if they are all diagramed in one line to the east of the Sun. Josephus told us that the candlestick in the temple represented the Sun and planets. At that time, the naked-eye planets were all that were known. The lineup was Sun, Mercury, Venus, EARTH, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Therefore, the planets considered as being east of Earth were Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (the 3rd heaven, II Cor. 12:2, our Heaven). The flaming sword (i.e., asteroid) would be in the middle of this lineup--Earth, Mars, flaming sword, Jupiter and Saturn. The flaming sword (asteroid) was to guard the way from Earth to Heaven to keep evil ones from Earth out of Heaven.
Eze 28:13-19 says to the king of Tyrus (rock, i.e, Satan), "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (both heavenly and earthly ones); every precious stone (planet) was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. THOU ART THE ANOINTED CHERUB THAT COVERETH (cakak, fences in, protects, defends, guards); and I have set thee so (Gen. 3:24): thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (on Rahab in the midst of the planets that look like lamps in the sky). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (cast out of Heaven Mid-Trib, Rev. 12:9): and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I WILL CAST THEE TO THE GROUND, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries (on Rahab, Wormwood, and Babylon) by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Agape
This is what I'm seeing...Christians today are being confronted with scripture that shows their theology in many places is flawed. But the REAL question is what are they doing about it? Once they see the truth do they change their views or just ingore the truth?
Just a thought...a thought you might want to pray about because God holds the teachers of scripture to a very high standard.
Christ will not have the 7 trumpet judgments cast on him. On that day, he will judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ and cast the 7 trumpet judgments on the False Prophet and his empire. On that day, Zech. 11:16,17 will come true. It says, "lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land (Israel), which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! (he goes to Babylon after taking over the OWG and UR from THE BEAST, the Tribulation Pope) the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened."
Some say that the commandment to build Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes. That is not correct. The Lord tells us the truth, it was Cyrus. Isa. 44:24 says, "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer (i.e., the pre-incarnate Christ, Isa. 44:6). Then in v. 28 the LORD "saith of CYRUS, HE IS MY SHEPHERD, AND SHALL PERFORM ALL MY PLEASURE: EVEN SAYING TO JERUSALEM, THOU SHALT BE BUILT; AND TO THE TEMPLE, THY FOUNDATION SHALL BE LAID."
Ussher said that Cyrus' decree was in BC 536, the widely accepted date. However, Martin Anstey, in "The Romance of Bible Chronology," told how he found an 82-year error in the period of the Persian kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454. The 483 years - BC 454 + 1 because there is no zero year = 30 AD, the exact year of the Messiah was "cut off" (killed).
> > Just a thought...a thought you might want to pray about because God holds the teachers of scripture to a very high standard.
I pray for his help in understanding his word, and I know that to whom much is given, much is expected. I am doing what the Lord showed me I should do after I asked what he wanted me to do. I saw a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2 in a darkened room at twilight. It said, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; PUBLISH, AND CONCEAL NOT: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces." I asked to understand all the deep things, everything he wanted man to understand in the Bible. I'm doing my best to understand what he wants me to understand in the Bible and to do what he wants me to do, "publish, and conceal not."
As for changing my view, I will change it in a flash if I see that Scripture indicates something else. Agape
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Updated 11-16-01