Date: Mon Dec 13 17:35:30 1999 From: InfidelsRe@aol.com Subject: LISH Newsletter, 12/99 pt2 To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Media Equates Catholic League with Catholics By Gerry D We have written about the Catholic League before yet it is still amazing the coverage they receive for their attacks on present and former Catholics. They've been savaging "Dogma" director Kevin Smith for quite a while and apparently they are now scrutinizing his acquaintances.
Smith appeared on Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" and Maher, raised as a Catholic, took some shots at the Catholic Church, though not at Catholic persons. He basically considered the church corrupt historically.
Patrick Sculley of the Catholic League said it amounts to "anti-Catholicism." Let's get this straight: If someone criticizes the Church as an organization, that's bigotry. If they criticize a Church leader, that's bigotry. If they criticize Church doctrine, that's bigotry.
Oh. But if the Catholic League rips apart a wayward Catholic, no problemo.
Now we are all getting used to this Catholic League modus operandi, but why does the media consider the League as speaking for Catholics? The Newsday headline on 11/11/99 read "Catholics call Maher religiously incorrect." No, they did not. Newsday owes the average Catholic person an apology. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
United Methodist Minster Defrocked by Gerry D Rev. Jimmy Creech has been defrocked by a jury of 13 Nebraska United Methodist ministers for officiating at a marriage of two gay men. The denomination bans gay marriage.
The Methodists are not known as a fundamentalist sect, yet they have taken the drastic action of defrocking this minister. They had previously suspended a minister in Illinois for blessing a gay union.
Often it is argued, including by some in the gay/lesbian community, that scripture does not necessarily support the notion that gay sex is sinful. It continues to be a fruitless argument as church after church reinforces their stands against gay sex and marriage, even as society around it becomes more open to it. Orthodox religion is what the churches say it is, and their interpretation of scripture is as legitimate, and perhaps even more accurate scripturally than the more liberal interpreters would prefer. Individual believers may disagree, but it means that they are not orthodox - they are heretical.
Such heresy is unavoidable where there is doctrine and orthodoxy about untestable and unprovable claims. Yet it seems to mean nothing to most church organizations that these faith held beliefs cause pain by stigmatizing those who sincerely disagree. The final irony is that few persons then have the courage to lose faith in faith, but instead come to have faith in something their human nature prefers. The result is the ultimate moral relativism - beliefs in conflicting absolute moralities. Outside a commitment to reason and evidence, there can be no solution and no compromise. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Letters to the Editor 10/13/99 Hello Everybody: My name is Frank Carlopio and I live in Brooklyn, New York and I'm a member of a Society of Freethinkers and I'm proud of it! Let me explain, I forsook all Christianity and all organized religions as they produce poisonous fanaticism! If we look at our TV, evangelists who are the first ones to criticize everybody's lifestyle and insist on holy, pure living are the first to commit adultery, fornication, sodomy and sometimes are arrested for tax evasion and rightly so.
If we look at the history of Christianity and study the Inquisitions, the Crusades, and the Salem witch trials by Puritans, Catholics, Anglicans, Protestants and so on, you don't see people moved by a loving God, rather you see warmongers, haters and killers! If you read "Candide" by Voltaire and pay close attention to chapter 6, "Auto-Da-Fe" you'll know what I'm talking about. Organized religion is merely a moneymaking, dollar worshipping business.
I conclude with these quotes from Thomas Jefferson's Freethought Legacy: "The Immaculate Conception, his deification, his miraculous powers, his resurrection, his visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity, Original Sin, Atonement, regeneration, election orders of hierarchy, etc. have resulted from artificial systems… In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from extraordinary mind and that other parts are the fabric of very inferior minds… On the dogmas of religion…all mankind…have been quarreling, fighting, burning, and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind… It is always better to have no ideas than false one; to believe nothing than to believe what is wrong!"
I recommend everyone read "Deceptions & Myths of the Bible," "Candide," "Atheist Debaters Handbook," "What is Atheism." "Ways of an Atheist," and the "Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. Signing off and hoping you have a great day. Sincerely, Frank Carlopio, Brooklyn, NY
Response: Thank you for your views. Imagine if a current candidate for president were to agree with Jefferson's assessment of organized religion. Wait a minute - Jesse Ventura, a future candidate, did agree with the above! And yes, the flak by the religiously correct was great! The sad fact is that the likes of Jefferson, Madison, Lincoln, Adams, and perhaps even George Washington, could not get elected today! G.D. ___________________
11/15/99 I saw "Dogma" this weekend. Not a great movie but some really funny parts, you should go see it. It does touch on subjects we hardly ever see in movies at all let alone treated in this manner. I must say if all Christians thought like Kevin Smith, I wouldn't have much of a problem with them. Kevin via Internet
Response: Actually, I suspect that Kevin is more similar to most Christians and Catholics in particular than the self-appointed spokespersons such as the Catholic League. Although he is into the details of religion, and most people are not, his general point of view is heavily influenced by humanism, again as are many persons without realizing it. Asking questions is the opposite of accepting dogma, and he does ask questions. G.D. ___________________
12/2/99 There is always so much going on at meetings and I don't know when you may have time for the phone, so here is a note of some pertinent info. I'm halfway through the "Devil's Dictionary" by Ambrose Pierce. He had a razor sharp wit and a terrific command of English. He was born in 1842 and disappeared in 1913. I thought we might make a "Humor Piece" for the newsletter from his stuff, properly edited of course. This would make a teaser, in that some members would want the book.
Also, PBS (Channel 13 in NYC area) is re-running FRONTLINE: "Apocalypse!" again on Tuesday Dec. 28, 10:00PM. The sequence with the fat evangelist telling his flock about the eternal punishment for unbelievers was wonderful.
Well, as Mark Twain said, "Heaven for Climate, Hell for Companionship." See you in Hell, Sherm C., Commack
Response: If it's all right with you Carl, I'll see you at the next meeting. G.D. ___________________
Re: Question of the month: What was the greatest ethical advance of the last millennium?
11/15/99 The death of Jesse Helms. I believe that he is still alive, but the millennium is not over yet. One could still hope!! Abel, via Internet
Response: That was cold, very cold. G.D. ___________________
11/16/99 I think the greatest ethical advance, still far away in its fruition, is the dawning of the concept that women may not be second class citizens, but entitled to the same considerations, rights, and privileges as men. May it take less than another millennium to truly bring this idea into reality in all the corners of the patriarchy. I'd love to say the abandonment of faith is a great advance but I don't see that sort of enlightenment ever occurring, much less in the past. Peter via Internet
Response: If one wanted to broaden further the concept, one might consider the idea of human rights itself as the greatest ethical advance of the millennium. Though it may be true that some great thinkers championed individual freedom before this millennium, it wasn't until this millennium that such rights actually existed in practice! Even today, such rights are not perfectly implemented in any one country. In the US, religious freedom is under constant attack by those who seek religious privilege, and certain classes (i.e.; gays, women, minorities, non-believers, etc.) of persons still seek equal rights in a practical sense, if not legal sense. As free as the US is, it resists signing onto international agreements regarding women and children's rights. The end of Jim Crow and American apartheid is still a recent development and there remain quite a few states where it is unconstitutional for non-believers to hold public office. The right to discriminate is a right actually championed by those who, at the same time, claim a higher moral ground. I would argue that the concept of human rights is the greatest ethical advance of the millennium and that its' full implementation in the next millennium would be one of humanity's greatest achievements ever. G.D. ___________________
11/26/99 Private property. MS via Internet
Response: Actually didn't men own their slaves, wives, children, livestock and land for centuries since before the last millennium? I do not know if this flies. G.D. ___________________
11/23/99 The greatest ethical advance of the millennium was the gradual replacement of the myths and assumptions of religion with the facts derived from scientific research based on unbiased analyses of what the results show.
I say this because I believe that one of the highest ethical objectives for which one can strive is a search for the truth.
The church has striven with all its' might to suppress facts which showed that things it was teaching were in error. From Galileo to the Inquisition to its' support of Constantine's was, this has been self-evident.
The Churches have so brainwashed their clergy into believing that it is more important to be "saved" than to be well fed that it has sought funds from all sources possible, many of them coming from poorly educated, ill fed people who could not afford to give.
This would be bad enough if that were all, but it is only the tip of the iceberg. Time and again the Church has supported wars if it looked like the outcome would produce more members. Most other mainstream religions suffer from similar flaws.
There can be no peace on earth until the mainstream religions are eliminated in the forms that we know them today. This will happen gradually, perhaps taking another 1000 years.
Meanwhile it is up to each of us to spread the good news that it is possible to think for oneself. Sincerely, Wesley R. J., Wichita, KS
Response: Thanks Wesley and this month, you get the last word. G.D. ___________________ ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Humanist Perspective on Cable TV "Humanist Perspective" public access show launched on Cablevision of Woodbury!
LISH is pleased to announce that our sponsored cable TV show, provided by the Center for Inquiry, can now be seen on the Cablevision of Woodbury system weekly on Wednesdays at 5:30 PM. Many thanks to James DeRidder for making the arrangements! The show is hosted by Joe Beck and features many well-known humanists as guests including CSH founder Paul Kurtz. Let us know what you think of the show! The Public Access channel number varies from place to place, but in Huntington it is channel 80. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Help Wanted! 1) Attention Smithtown and Brookhaven residents: We still need someone to come forward to sign an application for cable access for the Hauppauge Cablevision system.
2) A person to investigate the forming of a Secular Singles group and help with the End of the World Brunch would also be helpful. Anyone interested? Don't be shy!
3) Another exciting opportunity would be for some volunteers to begin Campus Freethought groups on Long Island colleges. Once again the work may be significant at first but then the groups become self-operating.
4) Public relations is an intriguing opportunity for some creative LISH member! We need to publicize meetings, issues of interest, and membership in LISH with TV, radio, print media and the general public. Special days for humanists, such as February 12, "Darwin Day," and June 7, "World Humanist Day" must be publicized and planned for. We need to make elected officials aware of the Standard Ten Commandments. We need to plan and promote public appearances of LISH and LISH members for the purpose of furthering humanist goals and values.
5) A person who can plan fundraising events or activities would be very appreciated. Since no one gets paid, all of the money goes to promoting LISH, secular humanism's values and services to the secular that are lacking, such as Secular Organization for Sobriety.
6) LISH members who would like to be on the Board of Directors should make their intentions known. If you'd like to run for the Board, (Pres., V.P., Secretary, Treasurer, Director) please submit a letter that can be circulated with your ideas, intentions and what you offer to LISH. Members only will be notified via the mail regarding the elections. Seriously, if you have never been an activist, the pride one feels when helping the community is startling and real. Call Gerry Dantone at 516 742 1662 if interested! ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Standard Ten Commandments Update By Gerry D LISH's Standard Ten Commandments (STCs) have been submitted to the Council for Secular Humanism and the American Humanist Association's Boards of Directors for consideration as the subject of resolutions. LISH is simply seeking statements of their being praiseworthy and/or useful as a guide for an ethical society.
"Official" endorsement is not being sought nor is it considered appropriate. However, it is believed that a commendation from the CSH and/or the AHA would help make the STCs a more viable alternative, legally and politically, to the biblical or biblically derived Commandments that are under consideration for posting in government run facilities, including schools. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
In Memoriam Dr. Sol Warren of Garden City, NY has passed away. He joined LISH early in 1999 and contributed to the creation of the Standard Ten Commandments. Dr. Warren was a member of the AHA for over three decades. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
NOTICE to LISH members only: Send in the questionnaires you've recently received as soon as possible! ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
A Portent of Things to Come!
Friday, 11/19/1999 - was the last day that would have all odd digits in its date until 1/1/3111. We're sure that meant something - to somebody! ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Problems of Peace By Gerry D In a column about the wariness of the Israeli people toward the peace process, Mort Zuckerman of the NY Daily News recounted a poll displaying good reason for that wariness. The poll was of 1600 Arab persons and among the findings were the following: 1) More than 75% believe Barak does not want peace. 2) 81% would not continue to support peace if the balance of power tipped in favor of the Arabs. 3) 80% believe the conflict must go on. 4) If it comes to conflict, two-thirds believe the Arabs should destroy the state of Israel. 5) 82% reject empathizing with Jews, especially victims of the holocaust. 6) 53% believe the Holocaust never occurred. 7) 87% support the militant activities of Islamic Arabs against the State of Israel.
Though figures for Israeli attitudes on similar questions were not provided, the very theme of the column, Israeli "wariness" indicates that the responses may also be very pessimistic.
The recent Wye Agreement that Barak has revived provides for a committee to lessen incitement of hatreds. How can this be done when fundamentalist religious teachings are at the core of that hatred? To remove the incitement would require removal of traditional religious beliefs, and few leaders have the stomach to attack religious beliefs, no matter how unethical and hateful.
What a government can do is become neutral and secular. Although I am sure it has never occurred to many of the political leaders in the mid-east, secularism is their only hope, and at the same time, it is almost hopeless to expect them to adopt such a course. Still, even Arafat must be weary of the turmoil caused by the more extreme religious factions he must rule. Although he'd probably be assassinated (as was Rabin) before he could implement any reforms, complete secularization of Palestinian and Israeli government and publicly funded schools is a necessity to achieve lasting peace.
The alternative is the continuing of publicly funded religious instruction in schools that teaches children and other citizens the divine nature of their cause, and their reward for being instruments of a vengeful God.
Supposed eternal bliss and reward while millions suffer versus peace on earth: Is there any better argument for fighting superstition? ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Highway to Hell? By Gerry Dantone If the path to hell is paved with "good intentions," does anyone know to where the road paved with indifference or bad intentions leads? ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
All articles in this newsletter may be reprinted by organizations affiliated with the Council for Secular Humanism with a reciprocating reprinting agreement with LISH, so long as the article is used in full and with complete crediting. Edited versions can be used with written permission. ______________________________________________________________________________ _________________
Editor: Gerald D Design: John W A Thumbs Up Publication Copyright LISH 1999