Atheist-Christian Debates


Bible Study

Sunday 21, November 2004

Our Savior Lutheran Church, KCMO


I'm paraphrasing this a little, but there's some good lessons to be had from this, which relate to topics elsewhere on this site. The `table 1,' `table 2' thing indicates people that were at the meeting, of which I can only remember a few names. In fairness, I've just mentioned their table, and if there's a separate person at the table talking, I add a letter.

Mark 4

RSV uses the phrase `manifest.' NIV translates it to `put in the open,' which is more informative.
Eberhart: Mark 4:21. What gifts are you hiding? Are you hiding your light? If you hide a flame under a bushel or under a bed, you'd think it would burn something, maybe part of the bed frame, or the dust bunnies under there. A light bulb can raise the temperature to 80 degrees in a freezer. We lost a lot of goods that way.
Table 1: You can't hide your light. We're going to show it no matter what we do.
Eberhart: We have a tendancy to hide the light. It's easy not to show it. It's easy to get caught up in our own fears and other things and not show it. The Old Testament says that Jesus won't put out a smouldering wick. You don't light a flat top candle with two wicks at the same time, or it will burn out. Normally. But Jesus won't put out the feeble light..."The measure we use will be the measure we get in return...What you have will be given back to you. If you have not, that which you have will be taken from you." What does this mean?
Table 2: The more you thank God for, the more you have to thank him for, or the more for which you have to thank Him for.
Eberhart: A lot of TV pastors say, "You'll get your money back if you give it." And then they add, "The pastor's not going to give it back, but God is." That's not what God is saying. 2 Corinthians 9. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. Our attitude towards giving is important. The measure you give, is what you get back.
Table 1: Sometimes I'm having a bad day at work, and I don't want people to see the cross I'm wearing around my neck. I want to tuck it inside my shirt.
Eberhart: See, there, we're not sending out anything, positive at least. If you send something positive, you get something positive in return. If you give in love, you get it back. You get double what you give. This is not a bargaining thing. We can either be a grump, or be the happiness and love of God. You reap what you sew, or `what goes around comes around.' God notices all you do. He's got a surplus, loaded for us. Mark 4:26-29 describes the mustard seed parable. What do you do for plants to make them grow?
Table 3: I just water (plants) and they grow.
Eberhart: Boy, that sounds easy. Sounds like I could do that.
Table 3a: You weed them.
Table 4: God makes them grow.
Table 2a: You just plant them and you pray they start growing.
Eberhart: The point is that we can't make growth. The kingdom of God grows. You can sow, nurture and water the seeds, but God makes His kingdom grow. You can't force people to believe or receive. In a way, it's comforting to know I'm not the savior. In other ways, it can be frustrating, because you put effort into it, but never get to see the fruit of your labors. You want to see the fruit for yourself. Sometimes you're a seed planter, and one day it will bear fruit, but you might not be there to see it. Someone else will see it. The plant will shoot up later. (Ecclesiastes 2:20-21). In jail ministry, you sometimes hear the change, hear about people forgiving themselves in the name of Jesus. It's very beautiful to see the forgiveness of God working in them. But we don't see the results all the time. We want to `count coup,' like the Native Americans did, touching the heads of the enemies you beat, to see the fruit of our efforts.
Table 2b: People need to hear about Christ, at least fifteen times. There's a song on Christian radio that talks about `what if you're number 15 and you don't do anything?'
Me: (My take was, we can't save the person, so we can't condemn them, either).
(The discussion goes back to planting).
Eberhart: You said you grew vines. You have a winery?
Table 3b: No, I like to feed the birds with them.
Eberhart: You don't use them to make communion wine? (Laughs). So what do you do with them, to keep them growing?
Table 3b: I prune them.
Eberhart: You prune them. So, like with the grapes, sometimes we are the first vines that have to be pruned off before real growth can happen...(Goes back to talking about how we are the light of Christ). "He who receives me, receives the Father who sent me..." You hear a lot of standard responses at funerals. "It's God's will," or "They've gone to a better place," are really common. What means more to them is a hug, or something. That's one way of sowing seeds of God's kingdom. A mustard seed of the kingdom of God will grow big, so birds can nest in its branches. God's rulership is like that mustard seed, that grows into a large, treelike plant. It seems insignificant at first. To merely talk about God seems meaningless. The whole thing seems meaningless, or a `fantasy,' but the word is a seed of God's kingdom. It starts out small and grows. If you went back in time five years and said I'd grow as much as I've done today, and trust Christ like I do today, I'd call you crazy. But trust in God grows, and expectations grow. The word does the work. We like to say, "oh, he'll never go to church!" but the kingdom of God grows. Plant a seed and it will grow.

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