ON TAOISM
Interview
with Leonardo Arena
Please
may you draw an outline of Taoism from the beginning?
Taoism was born from wu female magicians. This Chinese word characterized long-sideburned shamans. They used to live in clearings, far from human beings but not their sons. Lao-tzu, "the old child", was likely to be born from one of these women.
The magic origin of Taoism is certain and widely documented. There is an odd thing. Some misogynous Orientalists part Taoism from women but not the female element. Unlike them, I would say that women have the right to consider themselves to be the mothers of Taoism.
Later on, Taoism showed the characters of a peasant ideology. It is Fung Yu-lan's thesis, which historians take up. I have discussed it in Living by Taoism as a consideration of some consistence.
In any case, I think that early Taoists were anarchic. In order to understand what I mean you may see the second-last chapter of the Tao-te-ching. There Taoists hoped for a small utopia or an ideal State. The goal of freedom came back more and more during the developments of the movement. You may think of the Yellow Caps or other social riots inspired by Taoists.
It is a very complex issue. Philosophical Taoism should be distinguished from religious Taoism, which was originated by the tradition of the Heavenly Masters. Alchemical Taoism, diffused during the Middle Age, was the link between the other two kinds.
I must
say that my interest is concentrated on philosophical Taoism as a particular
way of life. Sometimes, alchemical Taoism is also stimulating.
Who
are the most significant figures in Taoism?
The answer is easy and immediate: they are Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu. I have a slight preference for the latter, who seems to me to be more original than the other. It may be because I do not like too "inflated" philosophers. For example, I like better the Old Testament than the New one.
Nevertheless, the Tao-te-ching is still partially unknown. I mean that it is very difficult to understand it fully. It will never be made simple, in a way.
Lieh-tzu seems to me to be less significant. His work should be considered besides Lao-tzu's and Chuang-tzu's. In spite of all, however, it gives us some clues.
In a second place, I would collocate the exponents of the hsüan-hsüeh stream, who are also called "Neoataoists". Wang Pi and Kuo Hsiang are the most relevant, but their work is more exegetical than ground-breaking or inspired. I like better the latter, as is showed in my books.
I dare
to say that a few contemporary Chinese writers, such as Acheng, possess
Taoist qualities.
What
does the word Tao mean?
Tao is the main road, from a literal and metaphorical point of view; one should never part from it. What does it mean? Paradoxically, it is Carlos Castaneda that offers us a key of reading: a way (tao) must be only followed if it has a heart. It is the only suggestion we can make. All the rest, even the hint at the wei-wu-wei is secondary. Spontaneity cannot be a goal; it can only be lived.
Taoism is not a complex of doctrines, but rather a way of life. Some of us are Taoist without knowing it. We make the choice of being Taoist, which, after all, is not a choice.
I know that such phrases are too much "lapidary", but it might not be otherwise. I propose a "radical" re-reading of Taoism.
In my opinion,
Taoism has more chance than any other Far Eastern way to liberation: it
does not risk falling into dogmatism, unlike the kind of Buddhism which
has been transplanted in the West.
What
are the living traits of Taoism in the present East?
I would say that, from a certain point of view, in China the situation is very difficult. If Taoism is meant from an existential point of view as a specific discipline, I would assert that its traces have got lost. Only religious Taoism remains alive in very "popular" forms.
However, if Taoism is to be meant as the wider substratum of the Chinese culture, I would say that it can be found in several places, such as medicine and dietetics, martial arts, painting, music, and so on. It is almost everywhere. Liberal movements of the present China draw on it more or less directly.
If we consider
the East overall, the discourse becomes vague. Can we speak of Chorean
and Japanese Taoism? In these cases there are Taoist remnants that intertwine
with indigenous traditions and doctrines, but it is another thing.
How
can the Western culture approach Taoism?
It is a very good question. As well as the other ones, it invites me to illustrate my point of view much better.
I consider Taoism to be the way of non-violence. From an ecological point of view, it could teach us many things. I think of some passages from the Chuang-tzu, which suggest precise interventions - I should say "non-interventions" - to us. We should consider the female traits of our approach to the nature or to our fellow creatures in a new perspective. Some assertions are good both on interpersonal relationships and environment. I like psychological approach, and I think that Taoism may particularly evaluate it.
Sun-tzu's "The Art of War", too, is a Taoist work, provided that we may be able to consider it in its right context, that is, as a struggle against ourselves.
Taoist suggestions may be applied in all professional contexts. For example, I would not be able to define my teaching, but I think that it is based on Taoism. Let me make another example. If we admit the pluralism of views, we can entertain a best dialogue with our interlocutors; we can avoid from hurrying to contradict or criticize them. This seems to me to be an advantage of Chuang-tzu over the socratic approach, according to which a dialogue should be violent and belligerent. I have sought to apply such principles in my teaching. However, they may be useful in all fields, like marketing, for example, has already shown.
In conclusion,
I would suggest that kindness should be acknowledged as the fundamental
value of ethics. Whether it is a Taoist value or not is not the important
thing. It is a Taoist value, anyway.
Selected
List of Books by Leonardo Arena
(Mondadori Publisher)
Il canto del derviscio (The Chant of the Dervish).
Storia del Buddhismo Ch'an (A History of Ch'an Buddhism).
Antologia del Buddhismo Ch'an (An Anthology of Ch'an Buddhism).
I maestri (Masters).
Il Sufismo (Sufism).
Il bimbo e lo scorpione (The Child and the Scorpion).
Vivere il Taoismo (Living by Taoism).
La via buddhista dell'illuminazione (The Buddhist Way to Enlightenment).
Chuang-tzu
(translation).
(Rizzoli Publisher)
Haiku (translation).
Diario Zen.
L'arte della guerra di Sun-tzu (translation).
Poesie
cinesi dell'epoca T'ang (translation).
(Quattroventi Publisher)
Del nonsense.
Tra Oriente e Occidente (On Nonsense: East and West).
NB: the
present interview has been published in: "Shiatsu-do", n. 10, June 1998,
pp. 25-6. I have made some slight editing to the text.
