Namaste All,IMO,

Namaste All,IMO,

Kundalini is our own Universal Mind. It rises in the Heart and goes directly to the brain on awakening. Prana or energy is the instrument of Kundalini-Sakti, Sakti/Grace isn't the energy but the Creator/Goddess/Saguna Brahman of the energy. With the disturbance of the gunas, action or karma begins. There is only karma and prana in this universe.

The nightly surges may or may not be kundalini-prana.

Let us assume that they are, then it is a cleansing action that is working on the mind, particularly the intellectual/awareness sheath or Vijnanamayakosa. As the sheath is cleansed so to speak the surges will diminish, until at a more advanced level they will be barely perceptible in meditation.

There may be some disturbance of thoughts and ideas during this cleansing, like a broom disturbs all the floor not just that which it is sweeping so to speak.

There is only one way to control the surges and direct them and that is through, prayer or japa/rosary, (or something similar as an affirmation.) It has to be channeled back so to speak, so it flows much easier as it accomplishes its Spiritual task so to speak. Otherwise unchanneled prana may disturb the mind or the sexual activities in the lower cakras, instead of rising to the Heart Cakra initially.

This is the importance of practise or sadhana. One has to concentrate on Prayer or a Godform of some kind. Or even an affirmation of some spiritual nature. 'Who am I' will do fine. The first time the prana surged in me, or the first time it really was heavy, I fell over in shock. I was sitting cross-legged on the floor meditating. I had felt surges throughout my life from childhood, but attributed it to rocks and my surroundings etc. This time it was heavy for I had stepped on to the path through taking up meditation, so opening the door so to speak. I had also taken up some preparatory breathing exercises or pranayama.Many people sometimes wake up in bliss, which lasts for a few moments or minutes and is probably due to a direct awakening from deep sleep as opposed to transversing the dream plane. It has happened to me on occasions and on awakening from meditation sometimes. Recently I awoke from my unconscious meditation in a bliss state and it lasted an hour or more. I or something was observing the bliss state, and the world was more ephemeral and didn't matter at all. I couldn't really tell if I was the state or was even separate from it. It lasted just as long as I was observing, as soon as I started to function in the world it began to diminish progressively....The memory or residual is still there though......

I notice mild and pleasant movement during meditation, these days, and as Sarada Devi said, Japa will raise the Kundalini, or Consciousness.

Kundalini arising to the Crown Cakra doesn't result in Moksha the Kundalini-Prana or mind has to be absorbed into the Heart or Self. In the end the timing of all this is Karmic as is everything.....

It is probably a little late to wait until the surges occur.

One should be doing meditation and japa/rosary either constantly in the back of one's mind or doing meditation before retiring to bed. It is wise to meditate at a similar time everyday. A few minutes will do. I used to do the corpse pose and grab meditation at work during the day sometimes. This pose has the benefit of easily de-energising the muscles, so there is no tension.

You say 3 am used to be your usual meditation time. Yes, this is the Brahma Murtha and advised for spiritual seekers. Unfortunately most of us work and cannot meet this schedule in many cases. However if you are used to meditating at this time, then 'God' is looking for the appointment. You may have to change the regular appointment time, then the energy will be absorbed/transmuted into the normal meditation.

There are only two ways of getting help, either from a Realised Master/Mukti or from your own Inner Self, which amounts to the same thing.

The other problem to avoid, as I mentioned in my original post, is psychological and psychosomatic, due to not enough Spiritual Direction.

It may require intense prayer and meditation/japa for a while, but the answer truly lies 'within'. Which is the only advice I can give, as I am not a Jivanmukta or Realised Master.

Ramana and others say that if one just repeats the mantra it is ineffective; one has to be emotionally involved with it. The Vedic sounds of a mantra have to be concentrated on, so rote is impossible, if one is doing it properly. If I had a penny for each time I heard the Gayatri chanted incorrectly, I would be a rich man. The sound of OM/AUM of course is within manifestation and is not Liberation itself. Sakti is not the energy per se but Saguna Brahman that projects it.

I know to many, my opinions on Kundalini are somewhat different. That is because IMO 99%+ of so called Kundalini-Prana isn't! One has to identify if one is 'experiencing' the cleansing prana, for K of course is everything as, the Universal Mind. So K-Prana is a Spiritual event.

1.There are the movements of energy impulses at the biological nerve level, and this may be due to any physical condition; arthritis, pinched nerves, spine problems, psychosomatic etc etc.

2.There is the movement of prana in the nadis, that may not be necessarily in the Sushumna. Acu-puncture type movements of energy can take place and this may not be K-Prana. These may seem to be spontaneous and out of control, and painful.

The five pranas or modes are quite complicated to the uninitiated. Without going into them to deepy, they are involved in breathing, and expulsion and sometime it seems they get out of sync. Badly performed pranayama can cause this as well.

When a person is dying there is a feeling of a need to defecate, for this is the prana starting to leave. A good example is my best childhood friend died a few months ago, of a heart attack. He felt an urge to defecate so he went upstairs to the toilet and took a book with him. His wife found him some time later leaning against the wall, book on his knee and dead as a doornail!--a heart attack!

Kundalini being the Universal Mind is everything and doesn't make random mistakes IMO, in stimulating the cleansing of the kosas or sheaths. The nadis and sushumna, (the tunnel of light), are after all only concepts and constructs to describe the connectors of the body to the kosas. A person not on the spiritual path is not going to be subconsciously cleansing their vijnanamayakosa are they? There has to be a trigger!!!

Finally as Sarada Devi says, Japa will raise the true Kundalini-Prana, perhaps even emperceptibly. IMO opinion if one has a true K experience happening it is more important to pay attention to their behaviour not the experiences. If one isn't becoming more spiritual, following a sadhana, becoming vegetarian for example, and in fact becoming a Sadhaka, in some form.

Finally one has to take into account that Lakshmana Swami says the K goes straight from the Heart to the Brain, and not from the Muladhara. This indicates to me that pranas may or may not be of a spiritual nature. i.e cleansing or otherwise.

The yardstick to me though is that a person become more the spiritual, less attached to the world and its sensual activities and pleasures. That is the difference between the pranas and kundalini-prana

Yes I agree with that statement of Ramana's. Sometimes when 'God'

calls we aren't ready in our ego mind, so we look for ways to slow

it, change it, divert it into illusion etc etc.

There is no Ego stronger in the world than that of an unrealised

spiritual seeker.

I had energies from a young person, but it really surged as an

adult. There is a lot of psycho-babble and rubbish written on this

subject as well of course. It is the realm of psychotics,charlatans,

false gurus, hurdy-gurdy men, as well.

I can only write from my own experience and comparing notes with

Ramana's teachings. I was lucky that at the time of the great surge,

I was already practising some Sadhana of sorts. After that I was

thrown in totally to being absorbed in this spiritual path, and

doing meditation and japa. I was using an Ishtadevata, as well. Also

I had a Sufi guide name Ibn el Rasa, whether he was a spirit or from

my own subconscious he was helpful-------take the middle path was

most of his advice, if I remember. Of course in a previous life I

may have gone through something similar to ERAs. Nowadays I am aware

of the movement of energy during pre meditation but I don't dwell on

it, I just stick to my point of meditation between the nose and lip,

and Om Namah Sivaya in the background.

In the end result we can only take our own advice.........

I realise that what I am saying is heresy to many people, who are attached to their 'surges'. That sounds funny actually hahahah. However my last paragraph reproduced below shows that my judgementalism only goes as far as the resulting spiritualiy.

> > The yardstick to me though is that a person become more the

> > spiritual, less attached to the world and its sensual activities and

> > pleasures. That is the difference between the pranas and kundalini-

> > prana.<<

I am aware it is all one, but the pranas are broken up so to speak to play roles, udana, apana etc, and of course Kundalini-Prana. My observation about many people, particularly Westerners, claiming K-Activity is not very enlightening. Many are attached to Sex, the surges or whatever, and I see little to claim a modicum of Spirituality. Many are charlatans, and many others are deluded or suffering from some mental breakdowns.

In the end result the K-Prana activity is to result in a more cleansed Vijnanamaykosa and subsequent rise in 'awareness'. I am sure my opinon is very similar to many in India.

As Lakshmana Swamy says prana raised to the sahasrara may result in some increase in siddhis but that is all. IMO it will not go down the amrita nadi to the 'Heart', if the vijnanamayakosa isn't cleansed of its vasanas and samskaras. So if it cannot do that, it begs the question doesn't it?

Much of the K-activity in the end may just be people observing and experiencing the pranamayakosa, Vivekananda remarks on this

I'm not trying to be judgmental or rigid. I am expressing an opinion that it is not a tantric one in the common understanding. Then again nobody in tantra will admit there is another step to Moksha via the concept of the amrita nadi as Ramana says.

They believe the union of Siva/Sakti occurs at the Sahasrara and that is it.-Kula-Arnava-Tantra 8:109. I find this text quite confusing and contradictory. 9:14 it talks of Nirvikalpa Samadhi and then goes on to talk of it as an ecstasy which is an experience and therefore Saguna. They are in the main attached to the surges and ecstasies. Bliss is not the end result it is the final impediment to Moksha. Tantrikas even talk of Sahaja as being ecstatic as well. So here we are dealing with what the Sufis call 'states', and others Samadhis, in term somewhat different to Vedantic or Buddhist. Ramana says that in true Samadhi there is only Peace, as does Jesus. Ecstasy is a kind of memory that occurs approaching and leaving Samadhi.

The ultimate though is that once one merges with 'God'-one becomes God and the mind is destroyed, according to Ramana.

So there is a lot of different interpretation here as in Vedantic Samadhi and Buddhist Samadhi for example, a lot of semantics.

IMO opinion still, what passes for K-acivity can be explained in other ways, in many cases...I understand my path is more Advaitic than Tantric and this may lead to some being confused by my statements of opinion................Tony.************************************* The intoxication of the Sufis is probably savikalpa samadhi of some kind, or they obviously remember it. Many people sometimes wake up in bliss which lasts for a few moments or minutes and is probably due to a direct awakening from the bliss sheath as opposed to transversing the dream plane. It has happened to me on occasions and also on awakening from meditation sometimes. Recently I awoke from my unconscious meditation in a bliss state and it lasted an hour or more. I or something was observing the bliss state, and the world was more ephemeral and didn't matter at all. I couldn't really tell if I was the state or was even separate from it. It lasted just as long as I was observing, as soom as I started to function in the world it began to diminish progressively....The memory or residual is still there though...........Tony.