June 13, 1999
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(07:26:38) Carol : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:27:14) Ken says to Carol: Hi Carol,,,
(07:28:24) Carol : Hi Ken..good morning
(07:28:41) Norm(RR) : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:29:10) Carol : Good morning Norm
(07:29:11) Norm(RR) says to Ken: Good Morning...**s**
(07:29:32) Norm(RR) says to Carol: *s*..Good Morning
(07:30:27) Ken says to Norm(RR): Good morning Norm,,,
(07:30:29) Jan : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:30:38) Ken says to Norm(RR): Hi ya Jan,,
(07:30:49) Jan : Good morning
(07:30:55) Norm(RR) : Good morning, Jan...*s*
(07:31:32) Carol : hey hey.. the gangs all here! Good morning Jan
(07:31:53) Jan : we had rain!!!!! *S*
(07:31:56) Ken : getting a cup of coffee,,,
(07:32:17) Norm(RR) says to Carol: 3 and 1/2......I am only half awake...*s*
(07:32:40) Jan says to Norm(RR): is that how much sleep you've had?
(07:32:40) Norm(RR) says to Jan: Rain......*s*...good....how much?
(07:33:08) Carol : ewww.. jealous, no rain here yet..but did ya get my icq? hehe I got TREES!! hehe
(07:33:15) Jan says to Norm(RR): I don't know...but everything is nice and wet...
(07:33:39) Carol angrily throws a book at ALL: [_P, wake up Normy hehe
(07:33:47) Jan says to Carol: yes... congrats on the trees...
(07:33:52) Ken : It's staying wet here,,,,rain, rain,,,go AWAY,,,,smile
(07:33:52) Norm(RR) says to Jan: ....it feels like that...too much wedding festivities......*s*
(07:33:54) Wairua Ataahua : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:34:24) Ken : Hi WA,,,,*s*
(07:34:29) Wairua Ataahua : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:34:29) Norm(RR) : Hi There, WA...*s*
(07:34:39) Jan : g to see you here, WA
(07:34:46) Carol says to Wairua Ataahua: Hi!...Glad you could make it today! *hugs*
(07:35:00) Jan : oops g = good
(07:35:19) Carol says to Jan: g= puter shorthand hehe
(07:35:26) Norm(RR) says to Jan: *chuckle*
(07:35:46) Norm(RR) says to PABLO: Hello
(07:35:46) Jan says to Carol: that's just Jan thinking faster than she can type... hehehe
(07:35:53) Wairua Ataahua : Hi everyone *S* having computer problems.... didn't think I was going to make it
(07:36:30) Norm(RR) says to Wairua Ataahua: ..*s*...well, you are here now,,,,,,,,.......glad you could get here
(07:36:53) Wairua Ataahua says to Norm(RR): Thank you *HUGS*
(07:37:42) Jan : how many are familiar with the first agreement?
(07:38:11) Jan : BE IMPECCABLE WITH YOUR WORD
(07:38:17) Carol says to Jan: *raises hand*..I've read the first agreement..am familiar with it
(07:38:33) Norm(RR) : BRB
(07:38:43) Jan : Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
(07:39:15) Ken says to Jan: hmmm,,,,,what does "familiar" mean to you Jan?? *smile*
(07:39:47) Jan says to Ken: just wondering if you've read the chapter
(07:39:51) Carol says to Ken: Reminds me, of a conversation you and I had once...about 'negative self esteem'.....avoid negative talk about yourself....'reframe'
(07:40:33) Norm(RR) says to Jan: does that mean I cannot tell that juicy tale I heard about Carol....?????.........*chuckle*......
(07:40:55) Carol angrily throws a book at Norm(RR): yep..LOL
(07:41:01) Jan says to Norm(RR): hehehe... why do we humans like gossip??
(07:41:32) Wairua Ataahua says to Jan: Depends how you define gossip? hehe
(07:42:06) Jan : we all gossip... what do we feel that we gain from that?
(07:42:22) Norm(RR) says to Jan: I don't know why we do....but it seems to be a great pass time.and look at all those tv talk show hosts whose main thing is gossip...
(07:42:39) Carol : the book points out, that Misery loves company....like to gossip, when we feel badly about ourselves, attempt to 'bring others character' down, by gossiping
(07:43:32) Norm(RR) says to Carol: That is probably the best explanation that I can think of
(07:43:54) Carol : talk shows? how about soap operas? hour after hour of 'gossip'
(07:44:00) Jan says to Carol: I think that's often the case...so that would mean that our self esteem also effects the way we feel about others
(07:44:22) Ken says to Jan: I have read up through the first agreement,,,and I agree with the writer,,,,not always easy to do,,but definitely the way to go,,,,I have a book I was reading several years ago,,,"Radical Honesty",,,,
(07:45:22) Carol says to Jan: humm hummm, and I like Ruiz's explanation...of 'speaking with love' about others, 'helps' us love ourselves...goes along with 'sending out negative vs positive energy', and what you project, comes back to you, smile
(07:46:06) Jan says to Ken: Ruiz talks about 'the word' as our power to create... in believing what we hear we create our experience and in repeating what we hear we can create the experience of others..
(07:46:35) Norm(RR) says to Carol: reaping what we sow.....so to speak
(07:47:11) Ken says to Norm(RR): that's good Norm,,,"sow -- sow to speak"
(07:47:18) Carol says to Norm(RR): hehe..mmm spoken like a true farmer....
(07:47:42) Jan says to Norm(RR): it's not always what we've sown... we tend to believe what we hear about ourselves too... and what we tell ourselves... and that affects how we feel about ourselves
(07:47:57) Ken says to Norm(RR): Or would that be "speak to sow",,,reaping the same,,,*g*
(07:49:18) Norm(RR) says to Jan: yes...that is a valid point, too...so it is important to be careful to whom we listen to, and to what we choose to think in regard to ourselves
(07:49:52) Jan : what words might we have heard as children that have negatively affected us?
(07:50:17) Carol : aahhh.. there is that word again...choose....and in this case...create....important to be careful what we 'create', images and thoughts about ourselves, and others
(07:51:21) Norm(RR) says to Ken: yes....*s*...that does seem to be the case....and in the 'reaping of what we have sown', our words are probably the things we sow the most..
(07:51:28) Carol says to Jan: moi? words I heard as a child, affected me? tons..how about "children should be seen and not heard'? mmmm carried attitude, that what I had to say, was not 'important'
(07:51:45) Ken says to Jan: I think that is true Jan,,as children we couldn't do much about what we heard,,,didn't have the life experience to know better,,,and today as adults,,,,we have had the experiences,,,now we need to be responsible for what we believe,,,,and hearing is believing,,,to some extent,,,
(07:52:01) Jan : there was an interesting Chicken Soup story this week that illustrates this point... a child born with a club foot .. doctors told his parents he would have trouble walking and would never run... the parents never told the child.. because he didn't know..
(07:52:25) Ken says to Norm(RR): I agree,,,our words are powerful,,,
(07:52:53) Carol agrees wholeheartedly with Ken: .....
(07:53:00) Jan : because he didn't KNOW he became a champion runner
(07:53:08) Carol agrees wholeheartedly with Norm(RR): ...
(07:54:04) Carol says to Jan: neat story....also shows the power the child had within' to not allow his own feelings about club foot 'control' his life
(07:55:11) Jan says to Carol: it shows the power of the mind to create positive or negative experience... we're creating our own experience by the agreements we make..the things we choose to believe about ourselves
(07:57:44) Norm(RR) says to Jan: Perhaps it is that we create positive (or negative) results of our life experiences, depending on what choices we make regarding those conditions or experiences...
(07:58:54) Carol says to Norm(RR): humm humm.. agree....also, becoming aware, of the power of our words, and choosing how we are 'using' that power
(07:59:39) Carol says to Wairua Ataahua: *nudge* still with us? any words of wisdom today?
(08:00:11) Wairua Ataahua says to Carol: ~smiles~ still here...
(08:03:11) Norm(RR) : Speak with integrity
(08:03:54) Jan : Enters the Reading Area...
(08:04:11) Jan : hi folks
(08:04:26) Norm(RR) : that phrase seems to indicate a need for an underlying honesty in the individual who is going to speak..*s*
(08:04:35) Jan : did anyone else have trouble?
(08:04:37) Ken : WB Jan,,,smile
(08:04:49) Norm(RR) says to Jan: welcome back..*s*
(08:04:54) Wairua Ataahua : Hi Jan *S*
(08:04:58) Jan : thanks
(08:05:08) Carol : ah ya....you 'fell out' *hands you a seat belt*
(08:05:18) Ken : It's running slow here,,,
(08:05:34) Jan : what did I miss?
(08:06:13) Norm(RR) says to Jan: not much, I don't think
(08:06:14) Carol : yep..and book says "Just imagine what you c an create with impeccability of the word....you can transcend the dream of fear and live a different life"..also
(08:06:31) Ken says to Jan: Me I hope,,,lol
(08:06:49) Carol : "you can live in heaven in the middle of thousands of people living in hell because you are immune to that hell."
(08:07:51) Norm(RR) says to Jan: any way I have a copy,...so far...*s*
(08:08:09) Jan says to Norm(RR): good...
(08:09:52) Norm(RR) : a philosophical question here....*s*....what or where is the source of the power of those words we choose to speak..........?
(08:10:28) Jan says to Norm(RR): Ruiz relates the power of the word and its impact on us, to a computer virus... it can poison our beliefs about ourselves
(08:10:36) Norm(RR) : or better put, perhaps...what, where or who is the source of that power?
(08:11:37) Jan says to Norm(RR): if we choose to be impeccable (without sin) with our words...the source would be the power of truth of love...
(08:12:27) ~*M@D M@X*~ : Enters the Reading Area...
(08:13:06) Norm(RR) says to Jan: two questions, then....*s*
(08:13:38) ~*M@D M@X*~ : hello
(08:13:39) Jan says to Norm(RR): you're wanting to hear the source of truth and love?
(08:14:06) Norm(RR) says to Jan: yes...*s*...for one...
(08:14:35) badly drawn boy nods knowingly to ALL: source of truth and love? I'm on the edge of my seat :)
(08:14:35) Norm(RR) says to ~*M@D M@X*~: hello...and welcome...*s*
(08:15:01) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Norm(RR): thanx... how is everyone today??
(08:15:18) Jan says to Norm(RR): if we speak only truth as we know it... and from a love based belief system, rather than a fear based belief system we are being impeccable with our words... that source of truth and love is our creator
(08:15:52) Norm(RR) says to badly drawn boy: .*s.*,,,welcome to our discussion
(08:16:19) Jan says to Norm(RR): that's my opinion...
(08:16:51) Jan : anyone else have an opinion?
(08:17:02) badly drawn boy orders a coffee for Norm(RR): hi norm.....interesting stuff, and I think Jan's right, but it's a bloody hard thing to do.
(08:17:46) Carol : well...pondering here Jan....'our creator' is the source of truth and love..yea...also, our 'experiences' play a large role in how we have developed our 'attitudes' about such things too...
(08:17:49) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Jan: having both truth and love may hurt....
(08:18:20) Jan says to ~*M@D M@X*~: how so?
(08:18:24) Ken : Speaking of hard to do,,,I wonder if it might be a lot like other things,,,the more often you do it,,the easier it becomes,,,???
(08:18:45) Jan says to Ken: agreed
(08:18:56) badly drawn boy : truth and love - potent (sometimes explosive) combination.
(08:18:56) Carol : what we hear, and observe around us as we grow.....plays a major role on how we 'react' and act...
(08:19:08) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Jan: if you love them and you hate there family, you cant be truthful about that... it can only cause problems
(08:19:44) Jan says to Carol: you're right... it's what we come to believe about ourselves... what we say to our children as the same impact on them...
(08:20:27) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: Well,,,problems provide opportunity for growth,,,and growth is most often individual,,,(maybe)
(08:20:57) Jan says to ~*M@D M@X*~: difficult situation... what could you choose to say that would eliminate the need to judge the family?
(08:21:00) Carol says to Ken: hummm "practice makes perfect".....
(08:21:40) Wairua Ataahua : How can you have love without truth M@D M@X?
(08:22:29) Jan : what can we do today to begin being impeccable with our words? what do we do when we hear someone else beginning to gossip?
(08:22:56) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Jan: you could take for example... I see a girl and she is nice but ugly as a dog... I don't won't to hurt a persons feelings so what do I tell her???? when I look at you time stands still but what I really mean is your face could stop a clock!!!!
(08:23:20) Ken says to Jan: Don't participate in the gossip session,,,smile
(08:23:30) Jan chuckles quietly at ~*M@D M@X*~: ...
(08:23:34) Wairua Ataahua says to Jan: If ya cant say something nice then say nothing at all.....?
(08:24:13) Jan says to Wairua Ataahua: I heard those words a lot as a child
(08:24:24) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Jan: there's ways to tell the truth without the person really knowing how you feel...
(08:24:30) Carol agrees wholeheartedly with Ken: mmmm...don't participate
(08:24:37) Norm(R) : Enters the Reading Area...
(08:24:47) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: hmmm,,,isn't it rather limiting to characterize someone by their physical features,,,and perhaps my beautiful isn't another person's beautiful,,,,
(08:24:57) Jan : *tosses the duct tape to norm*
(08:25:17) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Ken: the first thing anyone is attracted to is the appearance!!
(08:25:22) Wairua Ataahua says to ~*M@D M@X*~: I say you be honest and tell her what you DO like about her...... like she is kind and loving and thoughtful...... or whatever...... after all doesn't true beauty come from within?
(08:25:35) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: Is that an assumption or fact,,,,
(08:25:46) Norm(R) : sorry...my comp froze at 8:14:35
(08:26:11) badly drawn boy says to ~*M@D M@X*~: how so? that implies that there are different types of truth?
(08:27:04) Carol says to Norm(RR): I got it 'covered', smiles...missed Jan asking (08:22:29) Jan : what can we do today to begin being impeccable with our words? what do we do when we hear someone else beginning to gossip?
(08:27:08) Norm(R) says to Jan: therefore I have a 10 minute gap in my copy
(08:27:17) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: For example I have seen pictures of people in African tribes with their lips all stretched out,,,,not beautiful to me,,,but beautiful to them,,,perhaps the same with other body images,
(08:27:27) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Ken: John see's Jane walking down the road... now what would move him to go talk to her??? A. good looks or b. A personality that he doesn’t even know that exists?? (08:27:37) Jan says to ~*M@D M@X*~: if you choose to speak with love as a base... you would choose to say only those things that illustrate love... not those things that might be hurtful...
(08:28:15) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: Maybe John needs to clean up his mind,
(08:28:51) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: And with time, most physical beauty changes,
(08:29:05) Norm(R) says to Jan: (08:24:13) Jan says to Wairua Ataahua: I heard those words a lot as a child................. I must have missed that....sorry...
(08:29:13) Jan : many a plain bookcover contains a beautiful story...
(08:29:22) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Ken: I do agree that a personality of a person holds the relationship together but attraction is at first site..
(08:30:12) Carol says to ~*M@D M@X*~: mm what about here on computers? We often learn about people...from the 'inside out', not having the visual abilities to 'see' them first
(08:30:37) Wairua Ataahua says to ~*M@D M@X*~: So then what attracted you to your GF? *S*
(08:30:43) Carol : now my screen is messing up...
(08:30:49) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: Perhaps a person's being attracted by physical beauty says more about the person, than about physical beauty,,,perhaps rather shallow,,,*smile*
(08:31:43) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Carol: thats is not in real life.... I can't believe most on the net...TO MANY SECRETS!!
(08:31:58) Carol says to Norm(R): words referred to were "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"..when referring to 'how do we tell truth in a loving way' at times
(08:32:00) Norm(R) says to Carol: yes...there seems to be some tech problems here...
(08:32:38) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Wairua Ataahua: her looks at first.... then we grew together by our personality...
(08:32:45) Ken says to ~*M@D M@X*~: True Max,,and that is what we are discussing,,,,being impeccable with life,,,
(08:33:01) Norm(R) says to Carol: say the nice things or nothing...*s*yes...I know that one too.../s*
(08:33:59) Wairua Ataahua says to ~*M@D M@X*~: Sorry I am confused????? You said......I see a girl and she is nice but ugly as a dog...
(08:34:36) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Wairua Ataahua: that was for an example!!! Talking about truth hurts...
(08:34:37) Jan : where do we begin with impeccability of word?..
(08:34:51) Carol says to ~*M@D M@X*~: mmm 'real life'...it is 'real', discussion here, is how we, as individuals live....and...today especially, discussing 'be impeccable with your word'....cannot control 'others' words, only our own
(08:35:02) badly drawn boy says to Wairua Ataahua: I think that might have been a hypothetical....correct me if I’m wrong, max?
(08:35:47) Wairua Ataahua says to ~*M@D M@X*~: OK
(08:35:51) Ken : Well, departure time has arrived again,,,thanks for the discussion folks,,and Jan, thanks for facilitating the discussion,,,I'll see everyone next Sunday,,,btw,,,,I'll be on the road Tues nite,,,so I won't be able to make the meeting that night,,,
(08:35:54) Norm(R) : That which is ...True, Good, and Beautiful...*s*....think on the ultimate source of those attributes....
(08:35:54) Jan says to Carol: we cannot control their words...but we do have the ability to decide how we receive their words... whether or not to believe and pass on what we hear
(08:36:10) Carol says to Jan: *grins*..Begin at the very beginning? 'Listen to our words' I guess
(08:36:22) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Carol: it is to hard to tell if someone is telling the truth on the net... I need body language to tell
(08:36:52) Jan : I think we have to begin with our own self esteem...
(08:37:09) badly drawn boy says to ~*M@D M@X*~: too true....the written word is a great liar.
(08:37:11) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Norm(R): so your that person that writes those fortune cookies!!!
(08:37:33) Carol says to ~*M@D M@X*~: mmm...yes, hard to tell, but as Jan just pointed out, ultimately, all we can do, is be aware of how we speak, and how we 'receive' others words...
(08:38:15) Norm(R) says to ~*M@D M@X*~: *chuckle*....no, not really.....
(08:38:24) ~*M@D M@X*~ says to Norm(R): hehehe!!
(08:38:31) Carol : Thanks Jan...my puter is messing up here, need to empty things out...good discussion!
(08:38:45) Jan : when we feel good about who and what we are... we can source our words from truth and love
(08:39:28) Norm(R) says to Ken: sorry that you cannot be with us Tue nite
(08:39:32) Wairua Ataahua : Enters the Reading Area...
(08:39:38) Jan : thanks for being here all.... next time we'll cover the second agreement... "don't take anything personally"
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