July 10, 1999
The Forth Agreement: "Always Do Your Best"
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(07:23:36) Jan : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:30:01) sue : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:30:15) Ken : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:31:00) 'Carol' : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:31:18) 'Carol' : g'morning ya'll
(07:31:37) Ken says to Jan: Hi Jan
(07:32:34) Ken : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:32:50) sue : good morning all, hope it' all right for me to listen in
(07:33:00) Jan : oops... good morning
(07:33:34) 'Carol' says to sue: glad to have you Sue, how did you hear of us?
(07:33:53) 'Carol' : *realizes she made an 'assumption' *blush*
(07:33:57) Jan says to sue: sure it's all right
(07:34:23) Jan says to sue: glad to have you with us
(07:35:06) sue says to sue: thanks,find your discussions interesting
(07:35:15) Jan : The Fourth Agreement - Always Do Your Best.
(07:35:43) sue : sorry that was supposed to be for all
(07:36:08) Jan says to sue: we all talk to ourselves sometimes in here.... hehehe....
(07:36:19) 'Carol' says to sue: are you the gal that left a message on the Creating Miracles guest book?
(07:36:33) sue says to Carol: yes
(07:37:03) 'Carol' says to sue: oh, that was nice of you..thanks!...and welcome! *extends hand in warm greeting* I"m Carol from NJ...
(07:37:09) Jan says to sue: it's nice to know that someone is reading them... hope you'll be able to join us regularly
(07:38:04) Jan : Your best is going to change from moment to moment. It will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
(07:38:12) sue says to Jan: If the computer permits 'hehehe'
(07:38:58) Jan : this one makes a lot of sense to me... I guess I have to admit that I don't always do my best
(07:39:41) Ken : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:40:04) Jan : *tosses ken the duct tape*
(07:40:09) Ken : Well, I'm here for now,,,don't know for how long,,hello everyone,,,
(07:40:38) 'Carol' says to Jan: Makes a lot of sense to me too, what I liked about the point in the book though, was 'best' depends on how you feel or what is going on in your life at any particular moment (sort of, don't beat yourself up if you don't meet your own expectations)
(07:40:38) Ken : Talk about taking action *chuckle*
(07:41:06) 'Carol' says to Jan: way to go girl!.. your right on top of things hehehe
(07:41:30) Jan says to Carol: I like that too... but I'm wondering where we draw that line... might get to be an excuse for us sometimes.
.. (07:42:02) 'Carol' says to Ken: Sue's been following our discussions 'From afar' Ken, and we're just getting started with todays discussion...
(07:42:26) 'Carol' says to Jan: mm you mean...'allow yourself to not 'push self' to do better?
(07:42:27) sue says to Jan: Ruiz certainly helped me a lot, as a stay at home mom. always had my doubts, but now when I go to bed at night I look at the kids and say to myself "yes I have done my best"
(07:42:59) AnonymousM : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:43:08) Jan says to Carol: he begins by talking about how we can monitor ourselves and our progress with the first of the agreements by always doing the best we can in any particular mood, or state
(07:43:09) Anonymous : Enters the Reading Area...
(07:43:30) Anonf : hello everyone
(07:43:43) Jan says to sue: I can relate to that...
(07:44:26) 'Carol' says to Jan: right.. and keeping 'action' in mind..."Doing your best is taking the action because you love it, not because you're expecting a reward" *and agree with Sue...smile..being there for kids is 'taking action'.
(07:44:43) Jan says to Carol: it's easier to do my best in some areas more than others
(07:45:15) 'Carol' : G'morning Anonys...we're here discussing the book 'Four Agreements' Please feel free to 'join' in
(07:45:21) Jan says to Carol: and our best is better in some areas than it is in other areas...
(07:46:07) 'Carol' says to Jan: right.. think 'attitude' has a large part to play in it too,,,,becoming the 'task'...even when doing things we 'dislike' doing *thinking of cleaning toilets LOL*
(07:47:02) Jan : and maybe it's good to recognize that someone else's best may be better than ours in a particular task?
(07:47:23) Jan says to Ken: you still with us?
(07:47:43) Ken : Yep,,just hanging on,,,,
(07:47:52) 'Carol' says to Jan: hehe mm now there is a positive attitude...was thinking.....maybe someone else's best may NOT be what we expect.....*sighs*, the perfectionist in me raising it's ugly head
(07:48:27) Jan says to Carol: that's a good point too....
(07:49:42) Jan : is any of this starting to make a difference for anyone? I'm starting to become more aware of the times when I'm NOT impeccable with my word
(07:50:03) sue says to Jan: that's the point someone else's best may be better, but even if we did the same thing not quit as good it was still our best for that moment
(07:50:13) Ken : opppssss,,,,there's that word,,,impeccable,,,
(07:50:34) 'Carol' : I find it difficult to not 'judge' others actions.....attempting to focus on dealing with ME these days, let others take care of self (points out to Sue, I have a 21 year old...not always easy to accept her adult choices, and yet...know, I've done my 'best)
(07:50:49) Jan says to sue: yes... and that is the point... if it's our best, there is no room for judgment
(07:51:20) 'Carol' says to Jan: oh yea.. this has really been a good exercise for me....
(07:52:06) Jan says to Carol: sometimes I see things in my children that make me realize my BEST today is a little better than my BEST 20 years ago...but again... I did the best I could then as I'm doing now
(07:52:38) sue says to Carol: my oldest is 19, and not yet sure what he wants to do, and now after reading the book I'm even more inclined to say take your time, it is your life and you have to like it
(07:52:38) 'Carol' says to Jan: good point, and Ruiz points that out too, to 'let go of the past',, live and 'do your best' today
(07:53:58) Jan says to Carol: it isn't easy... none of these agreements are easy...but they seem to make sooooo much sense in terms of peace of mind
(07:54:42) Ken says to Jan: I think the book has been excellent,,,,I like the brief way he gets to the bottom line,,,
(07:55:21) sue says to Ken: 'impeccable' is not easy because "most' people know nothing else but gossip, how do you tell them that you are not interested in it in a nice way?
(07:55:34) Jan says to Ken: yep... makes it all so simple to understand... and that's the first step
(07:55:37) 'Carol' says to Jan: I also liked what Ruiz said about "Doing your best really doesn't feel like work because you enjoy whatever you are doing"....hehe course, does that mean, that we c an say NO, not gunna do that if we don't wanna?
(07:56:27) Jan says to sue: I guess you can politely change the subject... not sure that always works though
(07:56:47) Ken says to sue: Well,,,,I try not to join in with them,,,,pursue some other point,,,or say something that points out a good point of the person that is being talked about,,,that often shuts down the negative ones,,,
(07:57:44) 'Carol' agrees wholeheartedly with Ken: mm.. turning negative talk to positive can be a diplomatic way of dispelling gossip....
(07:58:11) Jan says to Carol: I think that's ok too... if I can get a better best tomorrow than I can today, I'd rather wait till I feel more like doing that thing, whatever it might be...
(07:58:40) sue : letting go of the past is the hardest yet,I can forgive, but not forget
(07:59:18) 'Carol' says to Jan: humm.. good food for thought there,
(07:59:40) Jan says to sue: I think it's important not to forget... you have to keep the lesson in order to learn from experience.. but you can throw away the experience
(08:00:31) sue : but again as Ruiz points out, that is in turn my problem, and will only turn back on me....and has
(08:00:39) 'Carol' : mm.. can throw away hurt and resentment in 'forgiving', and yet, remember the lesson too..or at least, do your best to
(08:00:40) Ken says to sue: I'm pretty sure none of us "forget" everything,,,the issue is does the previous action creative a negative energy for us,,,,is it detrimental for us or the other,,,perhaps if the previous action still has a negative for us,,it isn't because we haven't forgot it,,perhaps its because we have truly "forgiven" yet,,,,
(08:00:56) Jan says to sue: even in our most negative experiences there are lessons for us... and that makes it possible to see it as a positive... maybe that labeling thing is all wrong
(08:01:41) Ken says to sue: oops,,,that was "we have not truly forgiven" smile
(08:02:05) 'Carol' agrees wholeheartedly with Ken: agree, if..you meant, have not truly forgiven yet
(08:02:26) Jan says to Ken: I agree with you... if it's still hurting, there isn't total forgiveness... when we can be grateful for an experience then we are moving beyond it
(08:02:31) 'Carol' winks good-naturedly at Ken: ....oops.. spoke to soon
(08:02:46) Ken says to Carol: *smile*,,,that's what I meant,,,smile
(08:04:25) sue says to Ken: I know it creates negative energy, that is when I personally hit that bottomless pit
(08:05:23) 'Carol' : *wonders who the Anonys are, and if they're listening*
(08:05:40) 'Carol' : *hehe is nosy*
(08:05:42) Jan : each person that comes into our lives and each experience we have, COULD be viewed as a wonderful gift from God.. to help us learn lessons that we couldn't learn in any other way
(08:06:33) Jan : that thought helps me to be grateful even for those things that I previously labeled as negative
(08:06:56) 'Carol' : mm.. and each experience we encounter, with a positive attitude, can be viewed as a lesson, would sure create a peaceful world if everyone thought and felt this way...'always', smile
(08:07:51) Jan says to Carol: it's not easy... and especially when we're in the midst of it.. but after the fact it's easier... that old hind sight being 20/20 thing
(08:09:21) 'Carol' : mm...point though, when we've taken notice, that we spent the negative energy..this time...helps us to realize sooner 'next time'..Ruiz points out that...
(08:09:25) Jan : one point I wanted to cover is what Ruiz says about this fourth agreement allowing the other three to become deeply ingrained habits... any comments?
(08:09:46) 'Carol' : repetition, helps us 'be better' (not how he put it, but think that's the gist)
(08:10:02) Jan says to Carol: yes.. that is a good point...
(08:10:42) 'Carol' : yes, makes sense...this agreement, doing our best, to do the 'other agreements', and repetition, helps it all fall together,, makes a lot of sense...
(08:11:19) Jan says to Carol: it sort of takes the pressure off in judging ourselves
(08:12:59) 'Carol' says to Jan: eww.. I wish I could see that? helps take the pressure off judging? hehe I see the 'If I"m working at 'it', being impeccable in my word, not taking things personally, not making assumptions,,why are others not? hehe oh, I see...
(08:13:20) 'Carol' says to Jan: I AM taking it personally *blushes*
(08:13:43) Jan says to Carol: LOL
(08:13:45) Anonf : Leaves...
(08:14:21) Jan says to Carol: perhaps they're doing the best they can TOO...
(08:14:49) 'Carol' says to Jan: AAhhh.. hit the nail on the head I think...hehe...acceptance...gotta 'accept others' as they are too
(08:15:17) Jan : where does judgment of others fall in here with these agreements?
(08:15:44) 'Carol' says to Jan: I think...judgment falls under 'don't take things personally'?
(08:15:44) Jan : we all know it's something we probably shouldn't do...and I'm sure we all do it anyway...
(08:16:29) 'Carol' says to Jan: or is it 'assuming'? Assuming things about others is close relative to 'judgment'
(08:16:39) Jan : we are judging people constantly... when we choose friends, when we choose groups to be with, when we choose where to live... it's all about judgment
(08:17:04) Jan : I really think it's in all of them...
(08:17:43) sue : would be sooo much easier if I could 'bookmark "the four in my brain or somewhere, and if I'm starting to take things personally, they pop up and make me think...or not
(08:17:51) Jan : when we gossip we're judging... when we take things personally , we're judging what they say or do... and when we assume... we're also judging
(08:18:09) 'Carol' says to Jan: guess the bottom line may be.."Judge not, least ye too be judged"..again, can only take care of ME..need to allow others to take care of themselves..sort of foreign thoughts from 'domestication'
(08:18:28) Jan says to sue: sort of like a spell checker? hehehe
(08:19:05) 'Carol' says to Jan: lol.. I guess
(08:19:34) Jan says to sue: I typed up this list... and left a copy on the kitchen table for all my kids to read... and we've talked about the 4 agreements... it helps to monitor each other...
(08:20:12) Jan says to sue: also I find that in "teaching" or sharing these things with them, I'm learning more
(08:21:19) Jan says to sue: it's one of those universal laws... we get back what we put into the world
(08:21:24) 'Carol' says to Jan: ahh....'reinforcements'..to teach is to learn, smile..another 'universal truth?
(08:21:48) 'Carol' says to Jan: hehe
(08:21:55) Jan says to Carol: amen... hehehe
(08:22:32) sue : where Ruiz says " if someone takes a gun and points it at you, don't take it personally" I guess it's kind of hard to do, but yet when I think about it...it is really that person's problem ...except I might be the one who gets hurt
(08:22:43) 'Carol' : is learning all the time, smile
(08:22:45) Jan says to Carol: when it's something I feel is really important, I just leave a copy on the kitchen table... they'll read it when they're ready.... and it's like planting a seed
(08:23:10) Ken says to sue: lol
(08:23:35) Jan says to sue: that is a tough one...and very hard to see the lesson in that experience...
(08:24:59) Ken says to Jan: The lesson is,,,,if he or she shoots its: Bang your dead,,,,no more personal problems,,,smile
(08:25:10) sue says to Jan: yes, my aim is for all my kids to read the book, if they desire to do so
(08:25:36) Jan says to sue: how would any of us handle that? knowing that we are all the product of our experience doesn't really help with the danger aspect there
(08:26:13) 'Carol' : I"d probably attempt to 'babble then out of it' LOL....or die of freight before they had a chance to shoot
(08:26:25) Jan says to Ken: good point... what do we do with our fears?
(08:26:55) Jan says to Ken: where do fears fit in with the four agreements?
(08:27:21) Ken says to Jan: Besides Jan,,,,another life may be even more productive than this one,,,we just don't know,,we have a limited experience,,,only this life to make decisions from,,,so we think this is the only game,,and that perhaps makes it seem more important than it is,,,
(08:28:01) Jan says to Ken: well , it's all we have right now.. that's pretty important... LOL
(08:28:20) Ken says to Jan: *smile* Agreed,,,hehe
(08:28:29) sue says to Ken: I believe our fears either stop us or we use them against what make us fear, I think
(08:28:49) 'Carol' : *thinking*..also, the life of the 'person with the gun', has it's journey/path too, ouch,
(08:29:16) Jan says to sue: sometimes fear paralyzes... sometimes it motivates us... what makes the difference?
(08:29:40) 'Carol' agrees wholeheartedly with sue: mm fears can 'prevent' or 'encourage' us...depending on our attitude about them..good point
(08:30:40) Jan says to Carol: that's what I meant about the person with the gun being the sum of his experience... he is really a victim... or seeing himself as a victim and turning that into aggression
(08:30:56) 'Carol' says to Jan: attitude, makes the difference? I think so
(08:31:18) 'Carol' says to Jan: mm...I see
(08:31:23) Jan says to Carol: I just love talking about fears (you may have noticed) hehehehe
(08:31:33) Ken : Well, ladies, this has been an enjoyable discussion,,,,thanks for your comments,,,and I'm looking forward to our next discussion,,,and for now,,,I'm going to rest,,,,
(08:31:43) Jan says to Carol: talking about them reduces them for me
(08:31:47) sue : with a gun pointed at me it could go either way... with the exception,if I had to protect my family, it would definitely mobilize me..question.. why can't I do that for myself
(08:32:08) 'Carol' says to Ken: *hugs*...sweet dreams cowboy..thanks for joining us ~~waves, have a great rest of the weekend
(08:32:09) Jan says to Ken: glad you could be here...
(08:32:42) sue says to Ken: bye Ken
(08:33:04) Jan says to sue: that's a very good question... and one I had thought of too... my first thought would be of my children... "what would they do without me?"
(08:33:42) Jan says to sue: guess I'm assuming I have a lot of importance there, huh?
(08:34:06) Jan : oh... question???
(08:34:31) sue says to Jan: and again comes the thought...if I did my best...they will be Al right!!!
(08:34:34) Jan : shall we cover these last couple of chapters in this book or are we ready to move on to another book?
(08:34:53) 'Carol' : I'd like to continue through the book yes
(08:35:08) Jan says to sue: I'm starting to see how all these agreements make a pretty good circle...
(08:35:42) Jan says to Carol: ok...sounds good to me...
(08:36:03) sue says to Jan: hope I didn't talk to much...I'll try to be here, if the computer is
(08:36:09) Jan says to Carol: and I guess we should all be thinking about what we want to read together next
(08:36:41) Jan says to sue: it's wonderful having you with us... you made me think..and that's always good
(08:36:44) 'Carol' says to sue: thanks for your comments, enjoyed your input! I do hope you can join us again
(08:37:41) sue : thank for letting me be here, have a wonderful fearless Sunday
(08:38:06) Jan says to sue: thanks... you too
(08:38:09) 'Carol' says to sue: will do 'my best smile....bye now
(08:39:10) 'Carol' says to Jan: still have Celestine Prophecy..'on my list'?
(08:40:13) Jan says to Carol: that would be a good choice... I have the facilitator's manual on that one
(08:40:42) Jan says to Carol: did a local group with that book about 4 years ago
(08:40:48) 'Carol' says to Jan: hehe ut oh, you do? is that a 'volunteering' to facilitate? or am I assuming?
(08:41:09) Jan says to Carol: the jury's still out... I'll let you know
(08:41:32) Jan says to Carol: I sort of like the idea of sharing the chapters...
(08:42:03) 'Carol' says to Jan: K.. think Ken read it ages ago too, and I have the 'Experiential guide' purchased also...started it last week
(08:42:16) Jan says to Carol: if each of us takes a chapter it's easier for everyone... and we really get to learn more when we teach... hehehehe
(08:42:35) 'Carol' says to Jan: good point, commits us to read and BE HERE too hehe
(08:42:51) sue : I think you two have the greatest personalities,gotta go now,bye
(08:42:57) sue : Leaves...
(08:42:58) Jan says to Carol: we can talk about it more later... take a group vote
(08:43:21) Jan says to sue: it's nice having you here... do join us again... we love new input
(08:43:36) 'Carol' says to Jan: right...I need to move along now too...we'll talk..just a quick question? Norm ok? haven't seen or heard from him in two weeks either
(08:44:16) Jan says to Carol: he's out of town today... and he's usually online early mornings... on link... I think he's been busy with wheat harvest lately
(08:45:03) 'Carol' says to Jan: K thanks.. have a great day..we're off to 6 flags..argg, ,hehe...BYE ANONYMOUS, ~~Waves...
(08:45:34) Jan says to Carol: have a great time... see ya later
(08:45:52) 'Carol' says to Jan: K.. ba bye *poof*
(08:45:54) Anonymous says to Carol: bye Carol
(08:46:23) Jan says to Carol: bye
(08:46:44) Jan says to Anonymous: adios
(08:47:02) Anonymous says to Jan: adios
(08:47:16) Jan says to sue: bye... see ya later
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