as modified for the dance.
Created May 5, 2000. Updated May 7, 2000. Updated May 15, 2000. Updated May 17, 2000. Updated August 28, 2000. Updated September 25, 2000
Click on any image to see the full size image
First Impressions (5/4/00)
Notes on the images below: the images you see is not the stock configuration. Stock from Special Weapons was: with flapper, SEF plastic lower, wide forearm. Modification and additions done which are visible in the images: Small pin was cut and installed in the ears of the plastic lower giving the swing-down look. Wide handguard was removed and SD barrel shroud installed. Aimpoint scope mount is installed (waiting on aimpoint to arrive). In person, the barrel shroud is not as blue as it appears in the flash photography below.
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First Impressions
finally arrives after nearly 1.5 years of waiting and countless delays. Ordered in late 1998 it was initially scheduled for delivery in September 1999, then February 2000, then April 2000, and finally arrived in May 2000.The packaging has improved tremendously over the original SW3 (which was packaged wrapped in bubble-wrap in a box and stuffed with foam peanuts). The SW5 came in a nice cardboard box with 3 sheets of foam, the center one cut out to fit around the rifle. The box also contained the instruction manual, a sheet on breaking the firearm in and a coupon for the 10 round magazines or a discounted pre-ban 30 round magazine - to be submitted in the future.
The SW5 is build solidly - welds are nice and clean and the finish is as expected. Very well put together. The cocking tube does rattle as the cocking handle has some front-back play in the tube when the cocking handle is locked down after cocking. This is just an observation - it would be nice if it didn't do this, but I don't have an MP5 or HK94 so it may be normal. The foregrip (wide) does not move much and the trigger group sits very tight - no play (unlike some earlier delivery reports by others who apparently had loose trigger groups and looser front hanguards).
The rail slots for the A3 stock are not milled out to the H&K dimensions and the two slots in the rear of the reciever are not cut. It is thus impossible to attatch the collapsible A3 stock but this is not a problem as the A3 stock is prohibited by the 1994 Clinton Crime Law. Special Weapons has indicated that later in 2000 it will begin milling the necessary places to accept an A3 stock although it is still illegal to attach a collapsible or folding stock to the SW5 at this time (2000). It is hoped that the future will again allow the use of such a stock. Such a legal status change or the fixing of the A3 stock into a permanent location by a gunsmith ad then attaching would require these milled locations. For now, this causes no problem.
The selector lever is extremely hard to rotate from safe to fire and back. It requires a high degree of force to get the lever to move - not something a child or small female would likely be able to do - I guess its a sort of built in safetly lock. After working the lever somewhat, the edges of the indentations on the trigger housing became broken in. Combined with a small degree of filing on the selector-detent on the back side of the selector lever has allowed the selector to move a little easier.
The rear sight drum rotates way too easily and in fact does not lock down solidly in the center. The back aperature can easily swing from left to right - something there is definitely wrong.
The flapper magazine release lever - installed at an additional cost of $100 is a bit sticky. When the lever is activated to release the magazine by pulling it forward, it hangs there and will not return on its own. This means a new magazine will not seat itself until one manually pushes the flapper back down. It is unkown at this time if this is a normal operating feature or a problem with the flapper.
Update : May 6, 2000
The problem with the rear sight drum was easily fixed. Removing the sight and checking the spring and bearing magically fixed the problem. It seems the bearing was not properly seating in the bottom of the drum as it rotated. Reinstalling the spring and the sight back onto the SW5 resulted in a rear sight that locked solidly in the middle where it should; for each of the four range values.
Update : May 7, 2000
The A1 butt cap came in and it installes fine. It looks like the following picture - only with the longer barrel-SD plastic shroud and without the 'clip' for the sling on the mag- and with an SEF group.
Let me make this clear as it seems folks are confused: the following images is not an image of my SW5 with an a1 butt-cap on it. It is an image borrowed from the HkPro website to illustrate what the SW5 would look like with an a1 butt-cap installed. The image you see is of an actual MP5-SD4. Heck, does that mean its an A4 butt-cap?
The basic problem is is the over all length. Measured with the tape measure from the front of the SD sroud to the back end of the but-cap (not including the sling swivel is slightly under 26" at 25 9/16 inches. If I pull out the sling swivle so it is extended, then the length comes in right at 26". Needless to say, using the buttcap on the SW5, and I'm guessing HK94 as well, seems to get one VERY CLOSE of not too short for the 'over all length' requirement of 26" of the National Firearms Act. A firearm, as covered by the act, is a rifle with a barrel less than 16" or a rifle or a firearm made from a rifle with an overall length of less than 26" (along with other firearms) - so if you want to putt such an A1 butt-cap on your SW5... be carefull and figure out if that is a firearm that may require registration under the NFA - as an SBR I would imagine... or is it an AOW? Time to re-read the FAQ and ask some questions... I'll clarify this section with what I find out once I find it out (but as always, verify for YOURSELF anything you read or hear form the internet).
Update : May 15, 2000
I've had the SW5 at the range on two days now and can report on what I experienced shooting the thing.First, its FUN to shoot. It shoots very well, its light, very low recoil, is accurate, of course not nearly as loud as a rifle calibre rifle.
Day 1: I went out with 200 rounds of IMI +P 9mm ammo and 200 rounds of IMI normal 9mm 115 gr ammo. Loaded up the +P first, oiled the chamber, carrier, bolt, reciever - and away we went. Cycled fine - I had 1 failure to eject the case completely. Then loaded up the regular 9mm - no cleaning, just some more breakfree added to the respective areas - and went at it again. Here I found much more failures to eject - the cases that were extracted ended up inside the chamber as the next round was trying to be chambered. Pulling the cocking handle back and shacking out the spent case and the now loose next round got the SW5 back in action.
Observing the case ejections, I notice that the ejection process is very erratic. Some cases fly several feet in a nice high arc remeniscient of the SW3 while others just pop out and drop about a foot just outside of the ejection port - landing on my range back at the bench - the trajectories varied forward sidways far , near and every once in a while a case would not clear the sw5 and cause a stoppage. I didn't consider it a problem, its still the initial break in shooting session and the weapon has not been cleaned so any crud or wear-in debris is still in the firearm.
One mechanical stoppage happened when suddenly the bolt carrier stayed locked back. I had seen this before on the SW3 when the rivits on the recoil rod came off and the carrier was caught behind them and thus locked to the recoil buffer and stock so after waiting to ensure the firearm was clear and safe, removed th buttock. I was greeted with the folded over recoil spring snaked into 3 parts. I pulled out the spring and rod and discovered that one end (the back end) of the recoil rod had the screw endcap work itself loose and thus allowed the spring to come off of the rod during operation. The screw was in the reciever and dropped out - the spring was put back on the rod, and the screw was replaced with the washer and hand tightened and everything was back in operation. Some blue Loctite might be called for on those screws before going to the range.
Day 2: After a thourough cleaning and a 2 day wait, it was back to the range with the SW5 with 50 more rounds of +P IMI and 150 rounds of normal 115gr IMI 9mm. The recoil rod, which had been Locktited at the offending end, gave me no further problems. The 50 rounds of +P went first then the 150 of normal 9mm. There were still failures to eject about 1 or 2 times out of a 30 round magazine with the normal ammo and the ejection is still all over the place with the trajectory of the shell caseing. I will take a more accurate survey on range trip 3 in a week or so. At this point we have 250 rounds of +P and 550 rounds of normal 9mm 115gr through the SW5 - it could be it still needs not so much more rounds through it but more sessions of shooting-cleaning-shooting-cleaning. Next sessions will tell as I'll try to keep track of failures to eject and see if they get less over time and the trajectory of the spent caseings become more consistant. The parts were well lubed with breakfree before this shooting session as well.
The paddle mag release still sticks at the end - it moves much easier now, but if you pull it forward, it will catch at near the end of its travel and require you to manually push it back. I'm not sure if all of the paint and such is yet worn off - since disassembling the mag catch system is not quite as easy as no an AR15, I'm not going to do it just yet to try and clean the 'ramp' off myself. SW has indicated they are changing the position of something inside the flapper system - I'm not sure what this addresses or if there is anyway to resolve the issue with the existing flappers.
The SD shroud has held up very well- its still rock solid on the SW5 and has not melted. Even after some rapid fire form a magazine or at the end of the range session , the shroud is only 'warm' but is not melting. The area at the barrel where the shroud contacts the muzzle also doesn't appear to be suffering any melting or deterioration from shooting. The inside surface of the hole where the round exits is a little scared from what comes out of the barrel but other than that is stil fine.
Summary after 2 sessions: Failures to completely eject the round are bothersome - I'll give it some more time via a couple more range trips before action needs to be taken. The flapper still hangs after well over 100 operations of the mechanism and it is lubed as directed - could still be in break in. Over all its a fun rifle to shoot at the range. Given the flapper mag issue which will prevent a rapid magazine change, especially without looking and the failures to eject, I will say that at this point the SW5 is not reliable enough to 'count on it' for anything other than target shooting. Time will tell if those problems resolve themselves with further break-in and cleaning cycles.
Update : May 17th 2000
What 250 rounds of +P and 350 rounds of regular 9mm does to
the E&L SD barrel shroud on an SW5. I was able to snap a picture of the front of the shroud so you can actually see the only change in the shroud after firing the 600 rounds I've sent through it so far. The inside surfaces of the muzzel opening have been scared somewhat but the thing is still well intact.
Keep in mind, this image is taken at an angle so it looks like the area obove the muzzel is worn away a bunch and that area below the muzzel is untouched. That is NOT the case - there is slight wear evenly around the muzzle opening on all sides and not as much is worn away as the angled image might lead you to believe at first glance. I figure I'd better state this now or someone will go running around with some story about the SW5 eating a hole in the SD shroud or some such thing. ;-)
How to fit an A3 stock (8/28/2000)
There has beem much discussion on putting an A3 stock on the SW5. If the stock collapses, it will be illegal - so don't think about making a collapsible stock verison. However, as it is with the SW5, there rail slots on the sides of the reciever are too narrow and the stocks rails will not collapse into them - so the stock is defacto fixed. Its been done and at least seemed legal to one ATF agent at a gun show - reportedly. Whatever that is worth - nothing really.
Leaving the stock extended requires some adjustment. The SW5 also does not have the cut-outs on the back of the reciever to allow the proper seating of the A3 stock and thus the aligning of the pin holes. To accomplish this, you can modify the reciever.
The two (2) cut-outs are on the left and right of the reciever and this can be done, carefully, with a dremel or hand saws. Making these slots will allow the A3 stock to seat on the back of the reciever correctly.
Other Alternatives proposed were to modify the stock - not sure how good of an idea that is. Given the demand, I've posted this info with the two images submitted to me by fellow HK enthusiasts when I asked about it some time ago.
Here are the exact dimensions:
When doing your construction, take care. The work will be under the stock and not visible and it helps having a stainless reciever, but still, touch up that cutout with some Birchwood-Casey and you should be good to go.
