From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Looking for plans on overflow filter..
Date: 30 Jul 1995 18:46:45 GMT
In article <3vc9fm$831@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, drakons@aol.com says...
>
>I have a 70 gal custom reef tank. Did all the pluming myself and want to
>redo the overflow filter. (I enjoy the do-it-youself mode).
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks....
>
>DrakonS@aol.com
Good for you!
I build 99% of my stuff also. Don't have any plans though, as I'm not the
best when it comes to working with plexi, I usually look for an alternative.
Most of the time I use stuff from the grocery store, in the cannister
department. Sometimes I will find an interesting looking plastic container
that I can use for the overflow inside the tank. The very last time I built
one, it was from a plastic (vinyl) container that candy came in and it
looked like a boulder of sorts, The one before that was a castle looking
thing from the last kids fad of monsters and castles theme. Before that was
a plastic garbage can that I heated so that I could squeeze it into the
corner, basically I turned it into a triangle.
Well enough for the nonsense! The important features should include a flat
syphon as they don't catch air hardly at all, if they do, the flow of the
water through the syphon pulls the air out.
I install a moveable ring around my intake box, that I slip down right
before feeding and lift back up about a half hour later. So no food gets
pulled into the prefilter.
The outside box is usually another tupperware like container, a size most
suitable for what I am doing. I always place two U channels to slide the
prefilters into between the syphon and the exit tube.
On the syphon side of the outside box, I install an overflow, so that the
top of the overflow tube, usually 1 inch below the top of the container and
1 inch above the output tube on the otherside of the pre-filter. This is to
insure that should the pre-filter get partially clogged, the water can exit
the box without running all over the floor.
The main exit tube is usually fed into a P-Trap made of vinyl hose to keep
the unit quiet. Too keep the P-Trap from sucking like a syphon, I also
install a small 3/8 diameter air vent into the output side of the P-Trap and
run it up the side of the outside box to level with the top.
If you use a denitrator, an additional rigid small tube can be installed on
the tank side of the pre-filter.
To make the slots, I usually drill 1/4 inch holes first, where the bottom of
the slots will be and then saw down to the edge of the hole. If you are
working with plexiglass, file it fairly smooth and then flash across the
kerfs with a blowtorch to polich the file marks out. To figure out how
fast,run your finger through a candle flame as slow as you can without
getting burned, that is roughly the speed you have to keep your torch
moving.
Gary
From: Bryan_lukoni@mindlink.bc.ca (Bryan Lukoni)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: OVERFLOW IS GURGLING!!!
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 08:45:11 GMT
coverdale@iquest.net (Doug Coverdale) wrote:
>In article <31AC7597.4FA@folio.com>, Jim Perry says:
>>
>>TScott1538 wrote:
>>>
>>> My 90 gal tank I am setting up has an overflow box. It is constantly
>>> gurgling.
>>> Does anyone know a way to silence this stupid thing!!?? Comments and
>
>Fold up a towel and set it on top of the overflow. It may sound simple,
>but it is very effective! (and cheap)
>
>Doug Coverdale
>coverdale@iquest.net
>
If you really want to quiet down your overflow construct what is
called a J-trap. A fellow aquarist who posts regularily on the Usenet
past this suggestion on to me.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHH Top of overflow
* air outlet (important). Drill small hole
:----*------------:
: :----- -- :
: :- : : water level
: :
: : Standpipe
Note that it looks like a J- when constructed. The water is forced
upwards into the open end end rather than being sucked in from the top
Just attach the J-trap to a stand pipe in your overflow. I
constructed mine by using two 45 degree pvc elbows. Make sure that
you drill a small hole in the top of the trap to allow air to escape.
The only moise that my overflow makes now is a slight hissing sound.
This can be alleviated by attaching a length of tubing to the hole in
the top of the j-trap.
-=Bryan=-
From: "David W. Webb"
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria.misc,rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: Anti-siphon holes
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 14:45:01 -0500
Frank Manno wrote:
>
> > I have a Magnum return fitting that I want to replace my Ehiem return from
> > my sump. The Magnum return goes to deep into the water for my sake if
> > power goes out (much to much water will drain) I believe I have seen
> > others have a small hole drilled into the pipe just below the water level.
> > Does this work? Has or does anyone use a setup like this?
>
> Of cause the drilled hole works. It's all to do with physics.
>
> Drill the hole right at the water level. It doesn't matter at all if the
> hole is slightly higher or slightly lower than the water level.
>
> So think about it, when you turn the pump off, your return tries to
> siphon back right? It can't possible siphon back if there is a hole
> there which is drawing AIR in. So it's only going to siphon air
> instead of water.
This isn't necessarily true. If the hole isn't large enough, and if the
diffuser tubing exits several inches below water level, you can wind up
siphoning a noisy water/air combo back to your sump for several gallons
worth of water. I used a small hole in my 55g prior to the most recent
teardown to prevent a siphon, and it just wasn't big enough. I didn't
want to make it any bigger because then I'd risk increasing surface-air
mixing, and I have a CO2-injected plant tank (surface-air mixing drives
off CO2).
> Keep in mind that water squirts out of that hole when the pump
> is running, this is why you should keep it at or just below the
> water level. Not that it matters, just that if the hole is too
> high it will spray water onto your tank's lids :)
Agreed, mine was actually slightly below the water level, but the
problem above still happened.
> Anyways, in my opinion, the little drilled hole is the most safest
> and foolproof method. Much better than those valves and switches etc
> which can get stuck.
I have a *much* better method that I use now.
On the outside of the tank, I teed off of the line going into the tank,
and added a check valve that vents upward (to the air). I drilled the
spring out of the check valve to make it easy to operate, and hooked it
up so that water pressure in the tubing causes it to close. When the
pump shuts off, the check valve "falls" open because of the sudden vacuum
caused by the siphon and dumps large amounts of air into the return line.
I have a line from the check valve that loops back over the tank to allow
water that somehow manages to get past the valve to drip into the tank.
Photos of my diffuser/anti-siphon arrangement are included in my plumbing
article at:
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~aquaria/Krib/Plants/People/Webb/index.html
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David W. Webb
dwebb@ti.com
"He who dies with the most toys still dies." -unknown
Any correlation between my opinions and those of Texas Instruments is
purely coincidental. (I don't speak for TI)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: filefish@aol.com (Filefish)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Reef tanks and noise
Date: 24 Jul 1996 10:33:21 -0400
in a reply Will wrote,
>#2 - You do not absolutely need a sump, and not having one
>definitely saves noise, but having a place to stuff all that
>gear you don't want in plain view usually convinces people
>a sump is the way to go.
I emphatically agree with everything I have read from Will and a have kept
a successful no sump reef for 3 years. it's not worth it!! no sump means
no overflow generally and in my experience a overflow increases the
efficiency of a skimmer by about 3 fold. bite the bullet and live with the
noise. mine is barely louder than my refrigerator. One old trick I use
is to put a gate valve on my overflow hose and close it just enough to
keep the bubbles form being sucked down
just my .02 cents
mark
From: boheggus@usa.pipeline.com(Josh)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: OverFlow Box
Date: 2 Aug 1996 17:15:56 GMT
On Aug 01, 1996 16:01:49 in article , 'lnorris@ionet.net
(Larry Norris)' wrote:
>I am in the process of designing out a 75 gal. aquarium. I am an avid
>DIY'er and I'm planning on building just about everything except the
>tank and the live rock (but I'm open to suggestions). :)
>
>In any case, I'm going to use a sump for my skimmer and any other
>devices I want to put down there, and was wondering if anyone had any
>opinions on an overflow box vs. an overflow hole/pipe.
>BTW, I'm planning on using gravity to feed the sump, and two
>powerheads in the sump, one to feed my skimmer and one for return.
>
>My reservations are to both methods are;
>1. Drilling a hole in a perfectly good tank. This and having a
>non-adjustable and possibly low water level all the time.
I kicked this idea around when I set up my 125. I called around to several
glass shops (this is one job I won't try myself) and while a couple of them
agreed to do it, they wouldn't guarantee it. In other words, if the tank
broke while they were drilling it I was SOL. This and the fact that
drilling a tank will void the warranty made me decide against this option.
>2. Siphon on the overflow neck being broken and water all over my
>living room floor. That and the resultant non-too-happy wife..
Been there, got yelled at for that , though not because the siphon
broke. I run three overflow boxes on two different tanks and the siphon has
never broken in the several years I've been using this technique. My
problem has been with snails going through the overflow and getting stuck
at the gate valve in the line to the sump. The trick to maintaining the
siphon integrity is maximizing the flow through the U-tube. As long as the
flow is at around 200-250 GPH, the water moves fast enough so that air
bubbles don't accumulate, IME. Keep the flow rate in mind when you choose
the powerhead for the sump return (I'd recommend a Rio). There are other
tricks like attaching the venturi inlet of a powerhead to the peak of the
U-tube so that any bubbles that do accumulate are sucked out but I've never
tried it. Good luck!
Josh
-Ban anchors, not reef tanks!
From: chrisg@lplizard.com (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: SUMP or NO SUMP
Date: 15 Aug 1996 08:21:52 -0500
In article <32129F59.112F@ix.netcom.com> "Sean M. Peck" writes:
> I need a pump to get the water out of the main tank, and a return pump,
> right? OK. Now, since the main tank is 3-6 feet higher than the sump,
> once the sending pump starts, will it exceed its flow capacity with a
> "siphon" effect?, thereby exceeding the flowrate of my return pump,
> with an end result of a very WET floor, and a DRY tank? ;)
No, you definitely don't need or want a pump to get the water
out of the main tank. Gravity will do the job for you. You want to use
either a drilled corner overflow or an overflow box. Both of these
allow only a limited amount of water to drain out of the main tank in
the event of a power failure or other problem with the return
pump. This works because the water drains from the top of the aquarium
and once the water level goes lower than the top of the overflow, it
will stop flowing.
The corner overflow has a hole drilled in the bottom of the
tank, surrounded by a wall reaching up to the water surface. Water
flows over the wall (actually through small slots in the wall) and
down the hole.
The overflow box is two boxes connected. One goes in the tank
and one hangs off the back. A U-shaped siphon tube connects these
boxes. When water flows into the box in the tank, it flows over the
siphon tube into the back box. The back box has a hole in it with a
tube attached which drains into your sump. The back box actually has 2
chambers so that the chamber with the siphon tube in it overflows into
the second chamber which drains down. This is so that the ends of the
siphon tube stay submerged even when there is no water flowing so that
the siphon will restart when the pump starts again. You get the whole
thing started by draining all the air out of the siphon tube.
There are a few variants of both of these. Both systems will
keep up and down water flow in perfect balance unless the return pump
in the sump is pumping so much water that it exceeds the bandwidth of
the overflow.
I'm setting up a 125 gallon tank in a room where I DO NOT want
any serious water spills, so I'd appreciate any suggestions for
disaster prevention.
Here are some situations which can happen with either, and what the
consequences are:
overflow box:
syndrome how much water on floor
===============================================================================
0. Tank is cracked or you're screwed.
shattered
1. power loss or other none if there is enough extra volume
return pump shutdown in the sump to hold the amount of water which
siphons down the return tube. This amount
of water can be minimized by having 1 or more
small holes in the return tube just below the
water level to act as siphon breaks.
2. loss of siphon none if the top of the overflow is placed low enough
such that an entire sump's worth of water will fit
in the main tank w/o overflowing.
3. clog in return tube or this is a bad one. Water will flow over the siphon;
intake the rear box will overflow, and poor onto the floor.
One sump's worth of water will drain onto the floor.
I think this could be prevented by a design like the
following:
--------------
|-----------||
|| ||
|| |-----||----|
-----tank top-||--| | || |
|| | | || |
--------||- | | || |
|overflow | | | || |
|part1 | | | || |
| | | | || |
| | | | |
----------- | | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| ------------|
By making the top of the rear box higher than the top of the
tank, blocking the return will cause the water level in the rear box
and tank to rise. If the overflow is positioned low enough so that the
tank has enough slack to hold the entire sump contents, the water
level in the rear box and tank will not rise high enough to spill.
In scenario 2 or 3, your pump will also pump until it drains
the sump and then start pumping air, perhaps damaging the pump. This
can be prevented by using a float switch to shut off the return pump
when the water level in the sump gets to low. Though I wonder if this
could lead to an oscillation effect between the pump pumping up and
shutting off and the being turned back on when water siphons down the
return tube?
corner overflow:
===============================================================================
0. Tank is cracked or you're screwed. A drilled tank makes this some
shattered amount more likely. How much I don't know.
1. power loss or other none if there is enough extra volume
return pump shutdown in the sump to hold the amount of water which
siphons down the return tube. This amount
of water can be minimized by having 1 or more small
holes in the return tube just below the
water level to act as siphon breaks.
Note that in this scenario that if the seal around
the corner overflow leaks, you're going to end up
with the whole tank's water on the floor.
2. clog in return tube No water spilled if the volume of the corner overflow
or intake plus the empty volume between the normal water level
and the top of the tank is enough to hold the amount
of water in the sump.
--
Chris Green
From: Frank Manno
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: I need help in making an overflow!!!
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:32:34 +1100
> I would be VERY sure to box it with whatever the tank is. IE glass to
> glass, acryllic to acryllic
I'll second that.
Glass to Acrylic doesn't stick too well.
-Frankie
From: odenwell@cyberramp.net (Bob Odenweller)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: New Sump Setup Question
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:32:38 GMT
rjmaas@nwlink.com (Robert Maas) wrote:
>Currently I have a 55Gal Reef setup using a TopFathom 100 Skimmer. The Skimmer
>is set above the Tank, with an otto 1200 pushing water into it. Gravity is
>feeding the run off back into the Tank. I now know the otto should have been a
>2000, thus the tank isn't being skimmed properly. So instead of getting a 2000,
>which is a beast in size. I want to go ahead and set up a Sump, and Place the
>TF in it. But I can't convince myself of how to run the pipes and what size
>pump to use.
>I suspect I would have an Over the Side Box running down to the sump. And one
>pump feeding into the Skimmer and Y'd off to feed back up to the Tank. Things
>to think about are that the top of the Tank is 6 Feet from where the sump would
>be, and what size pipe should I use. And how do I keep the Over the Side
>running down from the tank at the same rate it's going back into the tank. And
>what happens if there's a power failure.
>Any help would be great..
> Robert
If you use a properly designed overflow box you will not have to worry
about the tank running dry in a power failure or about the rate of
water movement. The way it works is this; as you pump water out of
your sump the level in the aquarium rises. To keep it from rising
over the top of the aquarium, the water will begin to pour into the
part of the overflow box that is in the aquarium. A siphoning "J"
tube is used to continously drain the water into the external side of
the overflow box. From here the water goes down the drain into the
sump.
If for some reason the pump is turned off, then the water level in the
aquarium will drop until no more water pours into the overflow box,
thus the whole process comes to a stop. The amount of water that
pours into the overflow box is determined by the size of the pump, so
the size of your pump is not critical for the system to function. The
smaller the pump, the less water being pumped up to the aquarium, the
less water pouring into the overflow box, hence the less water being
returned to the sump.
For your 55 gal. setup, I would recomend using a RIO 2500 or Otto 2000
(or something similar) as a return pump and have a dedicated pump for
your skimmer. I'm not familiar with your skimmer so I can't recommend
a pump for it. As far as your plumbing, I would think 3/4" PVC would
be adaquate. I would use at least a 10 gal. sump considering that the
water level will rise somewhat when the return pump is shut off before
the siphoning process comes to a halt. Too small of a sump may not be
able to handle the water level rise.
From: Frank Manno
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: I need help in making an overflow!!!
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:16:26 +1100
> Most commercial production tanks are all-glass with an acrylic back,
> don't think I've ever seen one leak, yet.
I forgot to mention Silicone. Glass doesn't stick to well to
acrylic when gluing it with silicone.
I dunno what kind of wonder silicone you Americans have, but here
in Australia we never glue acrylic with silicone. It will stick,
only for a while.
Excuse my ignorance here, but what's the purpous of a glass
tank with an acrylic back? Why not a glass back?
-Frankie
From: Frank Manno
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Overflow Box Siphon Problems
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:23:26 +1100
> Outside of converting to a drilled reef ready setup, how can I fix this
> problem? Can I use some sort of valve that shuts off when power is
> interrupted?
Drill a small hole right at the water level on whatever pipe brings
water back into your tank. The hole will squirt a little water into your
tank when it's all running of cause, which is cool, a little surface
movement never hurt anyone.
That way, instead of the 'system' siphoning water back down to the
sump during a power failure, it will siphon air from that small hole
instead.
Any pipe that is drilled this way, can no longer siphon any water
whatsoever.
-Frankie
From: jacktrax@aol.com (JackTrax)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: Air in overflow tube
Date: 4 Sep 1996 20:26:23 -0400
It is a bad idea to siphon out air bubbles in the overflow tube by
running a small hose into it and down to the sump. If the power goes out
the hose siphon will continue and draw all the water out of the overflow
tube, breaking the main siphon. Then when the power comes back on, you
lost your return siphon and will either run the sump down below the pump
level and/or overflow the main tank. So DO NOT use this method to remove
air bubbles..
From: sdponj@mars.superlink.net (Dan & Sam)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech
Subject: Re: Air in overflow tube
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:50:38 GMT
jacktrax@aol.com (JackTrax) wrote:
> It is a bad idea to siphon out air bubbles in the overflow tube by
>running a small hose into it and down to the sump. If the power goes out
>the hose siphon will continue and draw all the water out of the overflow
>tube, breaking the main siphon. Then when the power comes back on, you
>lost your return siphon and will either run the sump down below the pump
>level and/or overflow the main tank. So DO NOT use this method to remove
>air bubbles..
A good way is just to increase the flow or halve the cross sectional
area. I added a bigger pump and the air just gets whisked away. But
I've heard that you could take out your tube and get get two smaller
ones, you get the same area but a larger velocity, so the bubbles will
just get pushed out.
