MSCList Postings

July 1998

• a raging egomaniac writes (July 30)
• the licky one (July 28)
• monoco (July 26)
• the scent of baking (July 23)
• sun street (July 21)
• having fin (July 19)
• quizzes (July 18)
• essex (July 17)
• big giant head (July 17)
• nobody on the road (July 14)
• beach balls (July 11)
• that quiz of Sara's (July 8)
• well away (July 7)
• dreams of a journey (July 6)
• he's back (July 4)

So, why am I refering to myself as a raging egomaniac? Let me explain a little.

A couple of weeks ago, the whole row about archives blew up. I've made no secret of my dislike of having my posts archived for commercial gain. I don't think it's right at all.

I mailed the admin(s) privately to discuss this matter, and finally found out that they were talking with the people responsible for archiving our posts, and would be making an official announcement "later that day". That was Monday. As of this morning, I've seen nothing. I don't like that. It smacks of fobbing me off.

I've mailed the people doing this archiving, pointing out that I really would like to get my posts out of their system. They've not written back. Instead, I find that they've actually banned me from their system, for daring to assert the copyright in my writings. Going in by a backdoor, I find that my work is still being stored for everyone to see. I don't like that one little bit. It's a totally cowardly stunt to pull. Especially because it doesn't work.

And now I find that my work is being exploited and sold for profit, without so much as a bye-my-leave. I think that stinks to high heaven. And that is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

This situation can go on no longer. It has to stop.

I have today made plans to start up a new list. I don't intend it to replace mail-list, but to be an alternative method of distribution. One that does not, and will not, attempt to profit from people's writings.

But I fully intend and request that all discussion arising from this new list should take place right here on mail-list. To enforce this, the list will be moderated by myself. Those people who have expressed a problem - either in public, or to me in private - with having their writing archived will post. Those of you who don't object to having your work stored and sold can and should continue to use mail-list.

At this point, you expect me to give details of how to subscribe to this wonderful, shiny, so new it still smells of cellophane list.

I'm not going to give them today.

I want to give the administrator(s) of this list an opportunity to make this new list redundant before it starts.

I want to hear that she / they are concerned about this enough to bring some pressure on the company holding our mails. That they stop this archive for some - or, if needs be, all - of our mails.

If I don't get those assurances, your next mail from me will give you instructions on where to go and what to do. And the one after that will describe what you just missed.

I so don't want to split this list again. There are differences between us, but there are more things that we have in common. But it seems that the only way I can carry on talking to you without compromising my integrity is to do what I'm doing.

Admin(s). Tell me I'm wrong.

Iain

Laura muses
Last night when I was in the car with my friends Teddy, Brendan, and Chris we heard My Heart Will Go On. I started to sing it and Teddy said, "Mom, change the channel. Laura's gonna have a Leonardo flashback." His mom thought that was the cutest thing, so Teddy and Brendan both screamed at her to change the channel. hee hee, I'm terrible.
It could be worse. It could be a lot worse. A guy on uk-radio has been sent a minidisc of eight different mixes of that particular tune. He doesn't like any of them, coz they've all got Sealion Dion warbling all over them. Unlike the mix Gambo's been playing on the Classic Countdown, oddly.

Hmm, I have a suspicion Sharon would have watched Scream and ...Last Summer. Partly coz they're popular, but partly because she has a bit of a thing for some of the leading ladies.

Shana (Sun) cites these times as equivalent
1pm west coast (usa)- 4pm east coast (usa)- 9pm London, England- 5pm (monday) manila, Philippines :)
I'll add in: 14:30 South Park, 17:30 in Newfoundland, 22:00 CET, 02:45 in Bhutan.

Liz
I feel kinda LOST casue I have no idea what any of you are talking about half the time!
Only half the time.. hey, before going, could you send me some liner notes? Anyway, to get off, send a blank e-mail to so-called-off@mail-list.com (so-called-d-off if you're on digests).

Marissa, thanks for your detective work in connection with the copyrights thing. The crunch passage is
if you don't have the "official" copyright, then a person who uses your words can claim "innocent infringement," meaning that they wrote the same words as you did without knowing you'd written them first.
As I suspected, it's a way of adding to the defence of your claim. Even so, it's not necessary to do this if you want a copyright.
P.S. It's Application Form TX, if you're curious about obtaining a registration...
Probably wouldn't stand up in an English court...

Rachel
to the ethics thing, we're not going to agree and I don't really have enough facts to prove anything my way anyway, so we can agree to disagree
Hey, suits me fine. Your choices remain valid, and while the reason you've stated doesn't totally convince me, I accept that it's your call to make.

Sara
I am actually five foot five and a half, so there!!!! ;-)
Well, I must apologise for docking four cm from your height, Sara. Though it does still make President Clintern taller than you. Especially when he's in his high heels. In fact, how come his high heels are so high. Mr Starr, do you want to subpoena the President's drag outfit, coz I'm sure there are ripped up documents in those soles...

Ben, the listie? and what kind of prank?
Yip, Ben Siegal, our Friend in Detroit, and Michael Stokes. It was Michael's sister's birthday party, and her friends were busily IRCing with someone from the other side of town. He sends a picture of himself, and arranges to meet them. Only, it's not some cutie, it's brother Michael, and he's using Ben's picture, and tomorrow he's going to print out all the evidence for them to see.

technically she hasn't been on *this* list.
I don't think there's any "technically" about it. Either she has or she hasn't.

I believe that the so-called 'real power' isn't held by anyone, as our system is a system of balance and checks. Its basically held by everyone.
Well, my personal view is that the vast majority of decisions that affect you directly are made locally, by the city, town or county. The people in Whitehall or the White House think they run your lives. It's polite not to disillusion them too often...

Even if you don't post [your address], people can find it out. Its really not that hard.
Erm, yes it is. The only people on the net who know my home address are people I've told it to. It's not listed in any of the white pages databases, and pretty darned inaccessible to anyone.
Curtis used to be able to find anyone's home address and phone number by simply hacking into whichever system...ok, I don't know how he did it, I just know that he did do it, and that he wasn't supposed to know that info.
That, I suggest, shows that either Curtis knew people who knew people at the data holder, or that the security was woefully lax. Either way, it bears out the truism that security is no stronger than the people who enforce it. And, yeah, I'm a nightmare to convince to give access to a data folder at work...

You object to having your postings in the archive, right? even though they are password-protected now. But you put all your posts up on your webpage, for anyone to read, or take or do anything with.
I've shared the long and gory answer with Sara the admin; anyone else who wants to know, please write me off list. In short, though, it's the little matter of intellectual property, and that I don't want someone else (the owners of escribe.com) to profit from my works.

prkbee1757, an AOHellster, writes in response to my last post
WHO IS THIS? WHERE DID YOU GET MY SCREEN NAME????
This is Iain T. Weaver, Bloke who posts long, broad-ranging posts to this list. If you read it, you're probably mad. And I got your screen name from the name tag you courteously placed atop your monitor. Though why you should want to call your screen "Beanie Baby" is beyond me.

And deepred14, another AOHellster, is responsible for
take me off this ******* list
[The above post run past Channel Four's South Park Bleep Machine, back in the days before it became a pile of molten steel on the floor]

Scott
Wasn't there a rash of AOL members being signed up unwillingly a while back?
Erm, yes, there was. Around Christmas and New Year, IIRC (he said, too lazy to reach into the zip files). Though I would have thought that such forged subscriptions were now impossible, given that all addresses have to be added manually, and AOHell screen names are uniquely issued (so no more glitterpvc):

Incidentally, I'm using "AOHellster" to describe a certain brand of individual, rather than all users of AOL. There could easily be an AOHellster on MSN...

ali wonders if Claire (Danes, I assume) smokes. Again, IIRC, there was a report to this effect in some of the glossies around last year's Oscars. I've not heard any confirmation of this, and certainly not seen any evidence of it happening. So, like all good things concerning the world's most promising actresses, it's not clear what's going on.

Now, when I find the one post in Digest 444 is headed "Titanic", I worry about things. So, I expect, does the rest of the list. A quick glance at my archives - access through the URL in the sig, and the only place you'll find all my writings - will tell newbies why.

But, no, I'm not going to moan about the topic, but the attachment to it. Guys, team, folks, this is an ASCII-based mailing list. Please don't post binaries to it, as it tends to screw up mail servers. (Note to admins: any danger of having something to this effect in the intro message? Thought not:)

Anyway. I'll leave you with something to think about. D-Anon passed on a list of classic movies. Including
Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice
Brain-twizzler of the week: all four names are also valid words in Scrabble. Define the lot of them. No reaching for a dictionary, now. I think this is a very hard question, so here's the deal. The first person to post with four correct definitions (and I'm judging correct:) posted to the list before 06:00 UTC Thursday (07:00 UK, 02:00 ET, 23:00 Weds PT, etc) will be eligible for something small but perfectly formed. Hey, what's this, a quiz with prize? Shome mishtake shurely!

And remember, folks, I'll know if you've been using dictionaries...

icq: 14441391 * Rockette! * England in Test Match Win Shock!!!
Brum: rainy & 20 * Dr Havelange: it's time to go, now

So, let's get going. Later: democracy, turnips, EuroSong, long movies, and the ObTakeTheMickOutOfMariah.

There's a certain interconnectedness of things at play here. We've all been venting on democracy, duties of a citizen and All That Jazz, then Sara asks
what exactly is jury duty like?
In answering this, I'm going to have to point out that a) UK law prohibits me from discussing what went on in the jury room, and b) eighteen months on, my experiences still rankle. On a non-archived list, I would not let one of these points stop me from speaking.

It's like nothing else, really. My case was a relatively involved one, involving two defendents, one prosecution witness, one lawyer whose head I want to wring from his neck, and one judge for whom that would just be too nice. One of the above, and only one, was not male. More than that, I prefer not to say.
I can usually (about 99% of the time) tell [if someone's lying]
Sometimes it's not convincing yourself of someone's veracity, but convincing other people. More than that, I cannot say.

shim
let's say bill clinton resigned today
He did?! Holy nightlife!! Why hasn't the Cheesecake Noos Network been running Clintern's Gone 24?

Some Brem person (who he?) enquires
Without postoffices where would my letters go, eh?
They would be stuck in Wolverhampton, where the [expletive] "workers" have decided to strike for reasons they are singularly failing to explain to the General Public. The first person to take the lot of them to court charged with causing delay to the post will get a lot of backing from me.

Brooks launches into a polemic comparing and contrasting democracy, socialism, communism, fascism, republics, aristocracy and dictatorships. My congratulations to the gentleman; I came out of reading his article knowing less than when I went in. A career teaching politics is yours for the taking. But let me suggest Governance by Accident of Birth; the good old Monarchic system, the one that's cutting the edges off the Blur government in the UK right now.

The answer to Last Time's Question. Congratulations to Cory, who correctly answered that the most popular root vegetable in 18th Century England was the Turnip. In those far distant days, the most famous pop group were the Turnip Girls. Ginger Turnip was dyed red, Scary Turnip had a pierced tuber, and Posh Turnip married a vegetable. Some things never change...

Deliberate Misreadings. Sara
So, he's the president, and I'm going to be a mother :)...he's not any higher than me at all.
Mr Clintern is 5 foot 9. Without his high heels. Sara is 5 foot 4 (or thereabouts), without her high heels. Mr Clintern is about 12 cm higher than Sara.

Lisa wonders
Which of the characters(I guess I'm talking about the under-18s here) would stay in their hometown and which would get out as soon as possible?
Brian is going, but only to an Ivy League uni. Jordan is probably out as well, as is Rickie. Rayanne's also attracted by the lights of somewhere else. Sharon seems to be staying, so does Danielle. Angela may stay or go. Or want to go but stay.

Just look at Peter Andre's face in his new video
If you don't mind, I'll just move on to the next post while you do that.

On archives, Sara points out
I do believe that they are on most.
Well, as I said, your milage may vary. Of the five lists I'm on, only two offer a public archive.
And we've always had them on here.
Well, were they around from day 1? Andi? byron? And even if it's always happened, does that make it right?
Like Micheal stokes's one, and the many others ones that we've had?
Let me say this very carefully and slowly. I was not aware of any planned or actual archives, other than the ones byron promotes at the head of every digest post, until escribe.com came along. You may name Michael Stokes until you are blue in the face - as far as I'm concerned, he's the guy who used the picture of Ben to play a wonderful prank on his sister and her friends. I am not aware of any of these "many others" to which you refer.

On the topic of ALI
in my eyes, she'll always be considered a listie of this list
Sara, she's never even subscribed to this list. The predecessor on netcom, sure. But not this one.
just as even if I ever left the list, I would still consider myself a listie of this list
Well, I wouldn't. If you're not here, you're not here. Yes, you would be a part of the list's long heritage, but not an actual listee.

Quoting me
>Do they not have mid-term congressional elections in Wisconsin?
To be honest, I don't even know.
For the record, to answer my own question, yes, they do.
you guys are all putting in different types of governements, and putting them all together. There are different governments, from the local ones, to the county ones, to the state ones, to the federal ones. They don't all go along with each other.
No, no, and thrice no. They are just different levels of one government. Agreed, the membership of each level is different, as are their priorities, but they combine to form one government.
For me, I was talking about federal elections, and more specifically, the presidential elections.
Which are, if I understand Eddie Mair's pieces from Nov 96 correctly, one ballot in around 200 for that year alone. Maybe 1000 ballots over four years. And you seem to think that real power is held by The Man At The Top. Think harder ... think more locally...

>(Off the top of my head, the only ones that don't are Milton Keynes and Telford, both built since the 60s).
How do you know that???
Been there, visited them, bought the t-shirts...
every town has a high street, while only a couple towns in the UK have malls....I don't know how accurate that actualy is, its just my observation.
Let me complement you on your astute observation. By your definition of mall, the only ones I know of are Puddleside, Merry Hell, Meadowhall in Sheffield, ones near Manchester and Cardiff. There are High Streets in (almost) all towns.
the bigget problem that I find with the mall isn't people smoking...its the air conditioning.
Which just goes to show something. Probably that Puddleside isn't all they'd like to think they are...

what is West Mercia? a town?
West Mercia is the police force for Shropshire, Herefordshire and Worcestershire, three rural counties on the border with Wales.
and can they just do that? like, say, that they don't wnat to use it?
Absolutely. It all comes down to economics: the Chief Constable figured that his force would use CS spray on perhaps three occasions a year, and that didn't justify the expense of training his officers in how to use it.

is the EuroVision Song contest the same as EuroSong?
Yes. It's simply that "Eurovision Song Contest" is far too long a name, especially as it's a poor translation of the original French "Grand Prix d'Europe" with no mention of "Chanson". So, I refer to it as "Eurosong". Also a title used in the classic "Father Ted" episode, featuring the wonderful "My Loverly Horse"

Now, I told you "Titanic" was a long film. Over three hours. A very, very, long movie. But that's nothing to this one:

DECALOGUE (No rating; 7:56) - A 10-part look at the 10 Commandments as they pertain to a Polish housing complex. Henryk Baranowski, Krystana Janda, Daniel Olbrychski. Directed by Krysztof Kieslowski.

So, returning to the favourite sport of Dissing Mariah Cantsing, Marissa contributes
I guess [her voice] was her ploy for more listeners before she discovered skin-showing worked much better. Now you can hardly hear *her* voice on her tracks...it's covered up by fancy Puff- Daddy-ish samples and loops and "featured" guest vocalists.
For all the cack she's inflicted on the world, I have to admit a strong respect for the cover of "I'll be there" - even though the duettist didn't get a credit - for the Wall Of Sound of "All I want for Christmas is You", and "One sweet day". But I'm a radio listener. Exposing acres of pale flesh does nothing for me. Making quality tunes (even if they are rarer than I might like) will work.

And shim opines
if she wants to change her image, couldn't she at least keep it to those people who want to see her like that?
Do such people exist? Honestly? Really?

Laura enquires
What's the fastest form of snow skiing?
Ski-jumping, surely.

Elvina
it does concern me when you guys post such personal things. I mean, like Sara said, there are maybe a hundred or more lurkers here. You don't find it scary that people whose names you don't even know know your secrets, some of your home addresses, and whether or not you're a virgin?
Start with the basics. Elementary security dictates that you don't post your home address or phone number. If nothing else, that indicates that your household has some expensive computer equipment.

Now, beyond that, I think we have a difference of opinion as to what this list should be about. Personally, I would have no objection to it returning to almost totally on-topic posts, but I don't think that's going to happen. And, from that basis, I'm not going to stomp around fuming about how I think this list should be. I'll object to breaches of netiquette, and raise them with the person responsible first. And I'll politely warn people against posting their location details to the list. Beyond that, I don't think there's anything more this list can do.

But then we turn to publicly available stores of this information, a topic that I expect to return to later in the week.

Stay tuned.

icq: 14441391 * rockette! * does strange things * says jodie
Codsall: cloudy & 18 * Fourth Test: it's close

Later: archives, changes, spambots, democratic musings, malls, CS gas and any excuse to put down Mariah Cantsing.

First, this announcement from the Community Noticeboard of the Evening Telegram, St John's:

"The Mall Walkers Club meets at 8:45 a.m. at the Avalon Mall, near the ticket booth. Info: 737-2333."

Archives. I'll stick to facts. Sara
Archives are basically on any mailing list that you go on..its not like its something new
A veteran of many mailing lists writes: Um, not sure about this. I'm not aware of a Planet Claire archive, the uk-radio list isn't archived anywhere. Old MHP posts are available through the list admin only, and the wirelist has an automatic archive done by onelist. So... in my experience, archives are not part and parcel of a list. YMMV.

everyone knew that Byron was setting some up also.
Call me out of touch (five seconds... thank you) but I didn't know byron was setting up archives on a server known to all and sundry, that would publicise our mail addresses and expose all our words to the whole web community. In fact, I didn't know byron was going to set up any archive beyond the Rotating Very Old Digests. I must have missed class that day..

Nichole
a list is owned by the admins of it, and they can do what they want with their list, because its theirs, anyone who doesn't like it can choose to leave.
Insofar as anyone can "own" a list, then, yes, you're right. But what use is a list to which no-one posts? The admins may own the list, but the individual posters retain their own posts.

Again, sticking only to the facts. Demeter
most of us can't judge the validity of Alis claims, not having heard them -- we only know that an admin and a listie
Erm, not exactly. An admin and someone who unsubscribed from the list before Christmas, and has scarcely contributed in the past year. If she's not prepared to have her name on the subbed list, ALI's not a current listie.

So, to summarise everything everyone's said. There are people who do not wish their posts to be archived. There are people deeply unhappy with the way the administrator(s) have handled this matter. This is a problem that isn't going to go away on its own. I suggest we may wish to have a ballot of all the listies. If the majority is to have an archive, then we set one up. If it's against, then we don't, and insist the existing one is removed. Any takers?

Back to normalcy. Back to Sara
the list will never be the same as how it used to be.
Of course it won't. Life goes on. Things change. Sara, do you want to turn the clock back two years? Throughout your life? Nostalgia has its place, but we can't let it rule our lives. We need to move on, to let things change.

And on to Elvina
If you don't want a few hundred strangers reading it, the solution is simple. Don't post it.
The list has changed. Of course it will. Life goes on. Things change. Repeat above paragraph.

Becky, let me answer your queries.
I know what spam is, but what is spambot?
A spambot is a program that crawls across the web, or usenet (the newsgroups you may have heard of, or use). It finds anything that looks like an email address, takes notes, and adds it to its list. Later, some carbon-based life form of ill repute and iller morals will send one mail to every address found by the spambot.

what kind of monetary unit is a quid? I'm predicting it's a slang reference to the pound
Indeed it is. A quid is one pound sterling. That's $2.40, roughly. Or US$1.65. I have to spell it out because the pound sign doesn't reproduce well on non-British displays, and I abhor the use of # as a "pound" sign. It's the hash sign in printing, or a sharp for a passing musician.

curiosity may very well get me killed someday... but I'll chance it anyway ;-)
Hey, I have an open invitation for people to ask me for explanations. And I'll generally oblige.

Sara on voting
that is once every four years.
Do they not have mid-term congressional elections in Wisconsin? I could have sworn they did. And are there not city, county and state elections, not to mention primaries for the above? Plus elections for judge, persecutor, court clerk, PA to the Governor, Chemist to the Governor and Dog Catcher? Well, OK, one of the above posts only ever existed in Arkansas, and hasn't been filled for some years, but you get my drift... Here, all I have is the MP (every five years), county council (every 4), parish and district councils (also 4).

And Sara wonders where Merry Hill is. It's a large mall near Cradely Heath, about 10 miles from me. It's also the largest mall in the UK. Whether Puddleside cares to admit it or not (:

high streets are more popular over here (I think)
It depends on how one defines "popular". Certainly, there are very, very few town or city centres that don't have much on- street shopping, even if that street is pedestrianised. (Off the top of my head, the only ones that don't are Milton Keynes and Telford, both built since the 60s). As for popularity by trade: well, you've seen the massive car parks at Puddleside. They wouldn't have those if the place wasn't moderately popular.

in a mall, that smoke kinda stagnates and stays there, cause there's no wind or anything to move it.
Mmm, not sure I agree on that. I find that the action of people moving around does a good job of dispersing the pollution very quickly, as good a job as the wind outside.

'Scuse me while I just run the provincial flag up the pole. Enough people have bought copies of "Play", the recently released Great Big Sea album, to make it #4 best seller in the folk section at Tower Records in London. #Fifty years of hurt ... Joe Smallwood still dreaming...#

the plan at that time was to have all police officers issued the gas in the UK, after taking a training class. Again, it was supposed to have been all done by the end of last year.
As I understand it, the plan was to complete the training for existing officers - about 60% of the forces - by the end of last year, and train all new recruits in its use. In researching this issue, I've also found that West Mercia have opted not to use the substance at all.

Sara on last summer in the UK
it was the best summer they've seen in, like, forever.
Ah! I mentioned a typical summer, not a good one. Well, I think that the two are the same, but most people differ. Yes, last summer was the hottest, stickiest and most nasty for - ooh - all of two years. Very spookily, both summers featured Channel Four showing MSCL. Is there a connection there?

maybe you should come over for a Wisconsin summer!!
Er, I'll just take an ice cube check on that.

On EuroSong
I thought the UK hadn't won that in forever?
Aye, not since the dim, dark, distant folk memories of The Point, Dublin, in May MCMXCVII. Last year. That's how come it came to Sunny Birmingham this year.

Ross (and his family) were all grumbling about how the UK always comes in second.
Well, the last seven years' UK positions: 2-2-10-8-6-1-2.

Now, Nichole read part of a headline
"CS Gas Used..." umm used in something ;-)
Let me think. "CS Gas used to brighten up CS Lewis book"? "CS Gas used to light BT fire"? "CS Gas used to cook alphabet soup"?

Marissa, I have no idea what it was you paid for, but you did not need to pay for a copyright on your works. You got it, free and for nothing, by creating them. I suspect the steps you took were pre-emptive measures to help you enforce that copyright.

And Marissa describes
Mariah Carey...so-so vocalist with tons of potential
Potential for breaking glass and inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on a whole world. She has a six octave vocal range, you know. And she exhibits it on every track.

Laura
I'll bring my Trivial Pursuit questions
OK, I'll throw in one early Blockbusters question. What "T" was the most commonly grown vegetable in eighteenth century England? Answer next time.

Lauren's vote for
the most versatile vegetable? Corn
Oh yes! Corn on pizza: yummy!

Sergeant Scott
"ass-spanked"? That almost seems like an oxymoron to me.
Or even a tautology; two words that mean the same thing used next to each other. An oxymoron is two words that mean direct opposites, like "soft as nails".

I'll leave you guys to figure that out, and my question just above. See you soon!

Brum: showers & 19 * Lords above, Trent Bridge below

And hello some more.

Tanya adds to the linguistic pile with
Who R U Cing & Y?
Shurely, "OO R U CIN N Y?"

Carry on at this rate, and we'll turn into the classic "Two Ronnies" sketch set in a cafe...

Customer "F U N E M?"
Waiter "S, I F Z M."
Customer "F U N E X?"
Waiter "9, I F N 10 E X."

Mark makes some very cogent points about parents having a label for their misbehaving / poor achieving / handful of a child, and use it to beat the schools with. Sure, there are kids with genuine problems, and they need the best help available. Which, let me add tangentially, is not in a mainstream class where they disrupt other people's learning.

But if there's any sense of "bandwagon jumping", it does everyone a dis-service. Those with genuine needs don't have them met, because the resources are stretched to cover the malingerers. And those mis-labelled lose confidence and tend to live up (or down) to their label. Heck, just look at any episode of "Daria" with this in mind...

So, why do parents go along with it? Partly because they think it might be beneficial for their children, partly because - as Mark suggested - it's a way of getting out of their guilt at having a "less than perfect" child. And, hey, partly because it's a mark of difference, something to let their child stand out from the crowd.

Eli
Can I suggest a get together in London on Saturday, Augost 8th?
Be there or miss out. Hmm, maybe I'll have to think some more about that catchline.
I'll be thankful if someone will arrange the final settings, like the exact place or hour, since it's not my court of play
Erm, High Noon is a good hour (I think), allowing Brem and myself to travel down from the Far North. Anyone any preferences about location?

Trijneke! Welcome onto the list. Erm, how should one pronounce your name? Tree-ne'ke?

Britt replies to Mark on smoking
I smoke but I do understand Sara's surprise that people can smoke in the malls in England.
Ahem, Britain. There would be murder if they tried to stop people smoking in some of the malls in Glasgow - and I'm not kidding.

But, yes, smoking is not outlawed in malls in the UK; something to do with freedom of choice, coupled with efficient air conditioning systems, high roofs and the fact that there's no way they could ban smoking on the High Street, and the malls are in direct competition (and sometimes leading off) those streets.

The only exception I know of is the Pallisaides in Birmingham, but that's a) because it's directly on top of New Street station, a no-smoking zone in order to reduce fire risks. And b) the restriction is honoured more in the breach than the observance. I'll ask people to not smoke on the station, but not upstairs.

here they took away all public transportation
On buses is (in theory) a no-no, but see note b) above. On commuter trains, it's an enforced ban - I've seen people fined on the spot for it. Long distance trains allow smoking in selected carriages.

Even most restaraunts, bowling alleys,
Most restaurants have smoking sections, as do all (four) bowling alleys I've visited.

Sara
Me, I'm used to our mall having concern for our health,
ROTFL! Gee, Sara, that's a wonderful one! The mall is only concerned about one thing: their profit margins. Evidently, the malls in the US think that banning smoking will increase their profits; those in the UK think that step would reduce the amount of custom. Health concerns have no part in that decision.

its one in Thurrock, called Lakeside. It's rather big, really.
The largest one in the South-East. Not quite as large as Merry Hell, but they won't admit it to anyone. So, have you been watching the tv series? Seen anything to suggest the management there isn't motivated only by profit? I've not...

Mark
the risk of contracting lung cancer from inhalation of smoke at a shopping centre is practically (dare I say absolutely) impossible.
Let's not forget, you are more likely to contract lung cancer from living next to a busy road than you are from a brief time inhaling other people's smoke. But the medical establishment don't seem to want to ban use of the motor car in public places. Why might that be?

Sara
Yes, it is legal over here to smoke in the malls, and yes I can move away from it but why should I have to move?
Good question. Let me spin it through 180. Why should you have the right to dictate what other people can and can't do? People all over the world do things we don't like. For me, the over-use of cars is a major bugbear. But while I will tell people what I think of their actions, and the logical consequences, I won't whine when they carry on regardless.

it was started by the No-Smoking, Health Risk campaign, or whatever it was called. They convinced the mall to go ahead with the no- smoking. They also took polls of what people thought before they enacted it.
A-ha! So, let me get this straight. A bunch of people band together, conduct surveys - that are almost certainly intended to produce the result the proponents want, present their results to the management, and let them take their course. The managers are either stupid enough to be blinded by the unscientific methodology employed, or appropriately savvy to figure that their bottom line would be hit if they let people carry on smoking.

Maybe the mall itself's ultimate goal was to make more money...but their reasoning isn't an issue here.
Their reasoning is the only issue here.

The point is, they did it, and nobody has to have yucky stuff going into their lungs that they don't want.
Right. So explain why every time there are three straight days of sun here, I get short of breath and wind up wheezing? Why my hay fever is far worse right by the motorway than it is at my home right by the country? Would your caring, sharing mall care to ban people from driving in, so that my delicate lungs don't have to suffer from other people's cavalier transport methods? Of course not. It'll hit their profits way too much.

I agree..everyone's opinion matters.
I'm glad you think that, Sara.

Sara, quoting Mark
>CS Gas is not a standard issue to the police force.
Actually, it is. Maybe you should study up on your facts about the police force over here!! Last year, while I was over here, every police officer in Wales, England, and Scotland got equipped with that stuff.
Sara, you should check your facts about the UK police forces. There are 43 of them in England alone. None issue it to officers on routine beat work. You may wish to verify these facts with the Electronic Telegraph archive.

And Sara responds to my "quizzical" post
are you referring to Jeremy, like old Jeremy from the list?
No. I didn't even know there was a Jeremy on this list. Ever. It's just a name...

Marissa
I have actually gotten and done the paper work for a copyright-- for one of my poems I distributed--and yes, you do have to pay money for it. It is a legal procedure.
Let me put this in simple terms: You Are Wrong.

More details are in my post of Sunday - see my archive for a copy, details through the sig.

Sara quoting me on the weather
>You've come into the first Proper British Summer since '92. I'm >enjoying it...
what about last year though? thats what people said about last year
Did they? These people are crazy. Last year was way too hot - the second hottest summer in history. No-one should have to go through that again. Like, never.

For Sara's edification, a quick lesson in the Midlands tv companies. Lord Lew Grade started Associated Television in 1955; they were the ITV franchise for the Midlands, but made most of their shows in London. Including the original Muppet shows. In 1981, the controllers were worried about the lack of local content, and forced the company to move to Birmingham and Nottingham, and rename themselves Central. Central was bought by the London contractors, Carlton, in 1994, and the Midlands franchise will become Carlton Central West, East and South (as appropriate). Now, I'm not impressed at all with Carlton, so when they make their name change to CSW, I'll refer to the station as ATV. And sucks to them.

Now. Let's see if we can't sort out this whole US -vs- UK debate in one fell swoop. Sara, you appear to think that the US is the best nation in the world. (Can anyone tell what's coming yet?) Mark, you have this idea that the US isn't, and that Britain is (You sure you don't know what's coming?) Ha! They're both wrong. And, seeing as how everyone knows what's coming next, I won't even say it.

My one word on this archives lark, prompted by Sara
I'm not sure if they can take out one persons e-mails.
If they can't, then I suggest that they're not as good as we'd like them to be, and that we should seriously think about taking our traffic away from them. Add to that the patronising ALT text they use -- "Graphics off equals potential spambot". No it doesn't. Graphics off means someone, somewhere, can't or won't download massive graphics files. Personally, I'd bin them for that alone.

Dr Demeter
Perhaps his attempting to justify Catholic theology with his sexual orientation made him aware of the fallibility of such absolute dictates? just a thought...
Just a thought, maybe, but a good one. Even so, would Rickie be comfortable with the concept of abortion, totally separate from his homosexuality?

Cory's party. Hmm. London to Tucson for 750 quid. Think I'll give it a miss, sadly.

Shana (Sun) writes
I see my name getting used in posts about the admins and I have NO idea what the hell is going on.
Shana (Sun) is an admin. Other listies are discussing the whys and wherefores of other admins. Therefore, I see nothing at all unreasonable about using Shana's name in such posts.

Hello people! You do not have the right to use my name on this matter!
Hello Shana! You're one of our admins, and we do expect to be able to state this fact without you getting all worked up about it. It's, like, one of the downsides of being an admin.

Judging from the rest of Shana's post, it seems that the whole "group admins" thing has ceased to exist, and Sara is the only active admin. I have no problem with this list having just one admin, but if it is the case, please be open about it, so we can all discuss matters as they are, not how we think they are.

Now, the subject line for this post is inspired by Laura's earlier subject line
Walking On Sunshine!
Which means that in eleven years time, I get to use the post title that won Eurosong for the UK last year. That's this month's ObEBU, and this time's post.

icq 14441391 * Me Dipsy, me Julia, me Jodie, me Rockette!
Brum: sunny & 21 * More men than women will marry the same person
again, says a survey * NYY 3 DET 3 (after 34 innings)

And there's more. Look out below for a bit of a theological lesson, for thoughts on copyright and western societal ethics, and other matters.

Cory invites us to a party.
October 24th, in Tucson
Let me do a little homework before declining this invite. Like, can I get there with just one change of flight, and for under 700 quid?

Shana (Storm) writes as Rickie
>20.Pro-life or Pro-choice?
pro-choice.
Erm, isn't Rickie meant to be, like, this staunch Catholic? And isn't there this slight contradiction in all this?

Anna's aunt
"Women have been smoking *fer* hundreds of years, and that *ain't never* hurt nobody."
Or, to translate into BBC English: Womyn in Western culture have been inhaling poisons and carcinogens since Sir Francis Drake introduced tobacco to the court in the late sixteenth century; during that period, many have suffered premature deaths owing to their habit."

Jenn
I don't see my presence as important enough to force a change
Quite honestly, I do. If one person feels strongly about an issue, then it is incumbent on all of us to hear them out and give due regard to their opinion. Not just sweep it under the carpet.
Canada is *so* great...
In every composite post of mine, there is a comment that I just repeat, adding the words "This Is True" to express total agreement. This is the This Is True moment for this post.

Shannon, there's not much to say. Other than to give a h-u-g-e supportive hug. I wish you all the very, very best of everything. [(c) Kris 1997]

Sara
its always really yucky out here
You've come into the first Proper British Summer since '92. I'm enjoying it...

On renaming foodstuffs
you still call them that? doesn't that tend to confuse people though?
No, because just about everyone still thinks in terms of Opal Fruits and Marathon Bars. Admittedly, my use of ATV in place of Central does cause a few people to look askance, but it's way better than Carlton Midlands West.
>Raisin Splitz and Bran Flakes.
what are they really?
Raisin Splitz and Bran Flakes, dummy (: Marketed as Raisin Wheats and Healthwise Bran Flakes. Neither name has the right cachet, IMO.

Rachel
2 Corinthians 6:14.

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"

First, let's not forget that this comes from St Paul, one of the original apostles. And probably Jesus' best spin doctor of the time.

Now, it's generally accepted that the church in Corinth (south Greece) had been infiltrated and pretty much taken over by elements who called Paul a liar, charlatan and general cheat. "You fib! You lie! You never met this Jesus bloke! You're bally well making it all up! Remember that money that he collected for the poor in Jerusalem? Don't see any people helped by him, while he drives around in the latest Ford Edsel Chariot with unleaded hay. Bit fishy, if you ask me..."

And, because Paul's itinerary had changed, and he had had to delay his trip to Corinth, the opposition were making capital of this. "Oh, just look at this bungler. Not only is he a liar, but he can't even sort his priorities out to visit us! Follow us, we're the real teachers."

So Paul writes, telling the church at Corinth to keep their faith, carry on trusting him, and he will be over to see them. Very soon.

Now, what's my point? That Paul's message was intended for the audience of 55AD, in Corinth. Throughout the first five chapters of his letter, Paul has been railing against the nay-sayers in Corinth, comparing them to Devil-worshippers. Given this, it's not surprising that he should advise against having too much to do with them, as he fears his squad would come out worse in that struggle of unequals.

In a wider perspective, I'm not uncomfortable interpreting it as a warning against marrying someone whose aims are inimical to those of the Christian church. But I do think that using that verse as justification to only marry an active Christian is twisting it a little.

that point I was trying to make was I'm not going to marry someone who's not a Christian.
Well, that is your choice, and I do respect it.

Still on the ethics post, Deca adds (quoting me)
>There's no stigma to being gay, or the child of unmarried parents.
There isn't? Not from my point of view, of course, but apart from all the openness on this list and in some tv shows there are still all kinds of conservative parties and people to whom being gay or bi is abnormal and totally not what a good law-obeying citizen is supposed to be.
Oh, certainly. I'm thinking in the wider picture. Even 20 years ago, being the child of unmarried parents was very unusual, and a source of stigma. Today, it's common. There's more legal protection for gays, women and ethnic minorities. You can't advertise a job as "woman's work", or "coloured person required"; even if you wanted to, society has adapted to a point where that becomes counter- productive. Sexual preference will be the next bridge to cross, but I suspect it'll be reached well within my lifetime.

There are still those who think that if you're not white, male, middle-aged and rich, you're no-one. Just as there are those who think the earth is flat.

I think rebelling by means of conformity is just plain stupid. :)
As I pointed out, there is very little room to become more permissive. Communism / Stalinism is dead. The few goals of the hippie movement of the 60s that are compatible with capitalism have happened. (Possible exception: legal soft drugs). Society has become as Liberal as it's going to get. The only way to turn is to make it more Conservative. Case in point: Tony Blair.

We hear Claire will star with Minnie Driver and someone else in a Japanese animated film. Which reduces my Degrees of Claire to four. Minnie has been hanging round Hollywood with Emma Forrest, sister to our own Lisa, whom I met a couple of weeks ago.

Sara
the US laws still protect you...your writings are your writings, to do with as you please. If somebody takes something of yours, and passes it off as theirs, the law will still protect you.
This is enshrined in the Berne Convention, under international law. Provisions have been enacted into national laws; if the person breaking your copyright lives in a different country that has ratified the Convention, you can go after them in either juristiction.

Scott
if it's not copyrighted people can get away with ripping it off
Ah, but by creating a post, you create a copyrighted work. And by posting it, you create reasonable proof that you posted it when you claim you posted it.
copyrighting isn't free anyway
Darling, you get a copyright free with every post that you write. It's enforcing it that costs the money. ):

Nichole quotes an excellent copyright resource one copy.
Fan fiction and other work derived from copyrighted works is a copyright violation.
but fails to add the rider that this does not apply if (and only if) the fiction falls under a reasonable definition of parody.

Codsall: showers and 19

Well, the subject says it all, I guess...

Full name: Iain

Nick name: Weaver

E-mail address: See the header to this mail. Or the "mail me" links at the foot of the page.

Personal Info-height, Eye and hair color, weight: 179cm, brown, blue/grey, betwixt 5 and 500 kg. Not in that order, maybe.

Personal style: Competent, efficient, outspoken and calm.

Fave thing to wear: Clothes.

Fave movie: Pass.

Fave song: Whatever I listened to last. Currently "Save tonight".

Fave actor/actress: Larisa, Claire, Kevin, shimelle and Matthew. But not the ones playing all over France recently.

Fave musical group: Um, Great Big Sea, at the mo...

Hottest Guy/Girl alive: Is probably reading this...

Who r your best buds: See previous answers

1. R u gay, straight, or BI??
Yes

2. Who r your crushes and y?
(Who wrote this? Did they not have a good command of written English?) Erm, see previous answers. Pin me down? Oh, Sarah from work.

3. Are u single?
Depends who's asking.

4. If not-- who r u seeing and y?
Gee whizz, this is rotten spelling. Don't follow this example, Eli!

5. What do u think about ur parents?
Ur parents must, logically, come from Ur, or one of its suburbs - Ah, Um, and Watchermacallit. As I don't know anyone from those places, I'll have to pass.

6. What r your greatest fears?
Being alone.

7. What is the scariest thing u have done?
Landing in Toronto airport. Don't try this at home, kids.

8. What's the most embarrising thing that has ever happened to u?
"Hi, Dave". "Steve".

9. What is the first thing u look for in a guy?
Answering this in the sense it was written: pride jewellery.

10. What is the first thing u look for in a friend?
Someone to laugh or groan at my jokes. I'm not picky, and neither is my humour.

11. In your own words-What is a true friend?
Someone who will let you fowl up and still respect you.

12. Who do u hate?
This response is self-censored under fight rules.

13. What is the most dangerous thing u have ever dreamed of doing?
Flying back into Toronto airport.

14. Are u a virgin?
No.

15. Who do u trust the most?
You.

16. When was the last time u actualy cried?
Listening to Mike Ingham's stream of cliches when Petit knocked in the last goal on Sunday: "A big goal for a small chap"... "The contest France invented" ... "in the stadium built specially for the contest" ... "Jules Rimet looks down in pride" ... "First final, first victory". Every cliche and fact that the Five Live team had studiously avoided since the opening games came flooding out in one torrent. Hilarious.

17. What do u wish to become in the future?
A Canadian citizen.

18. What is the one thing u want to do before you die?
See above answer.

19. What's ur dream car?
Trains, darling, trains.

1. All "everyone but Rickie is gay" kidding aside, which of the characters do you think might have been bisexual?
Certainly Sharon, probably Rayanne, and Brian; possibly Angela, maybe Jordan. Not Delia, somehow.

2. If you had to spend your life with one (and only one) of the MSCL characters, who would it be, and why?
Mmm, toughie. I guess Jordan, the whole hidden depths thing.

3. Which of the guys would have followed that weird George Clooney hair trend and gone with the short 'n' spiky look?
Kyle. Corey. And maybe Katimski.

4. The Spice Girls are coming to Three Rivers. Who has tickets?
Rayanne, Rickie, Danielle, maybe Delia, Corey. Heck, probably Brian, just to show Angela he does have a life.

5. If you had the chance to slow-dance with any member of the cast, who would it be? Why?
Sharon. I'd need guidance, on where to, like, put my feet.

6. You have the chance to go to Disneyland with three of the cast members. Who are they? Why?
Rickie, Danielle and Angela. The first two would whoop and holler at everything, and be really up, while Angela would add some ironic thoughts on the whole spectacle and calm me down.

7. What are the character's fave kinds of
a) candy
b)sandwich
Jordan's would have to be yesterday's roast. And I can see Sharon being into strong cheese. Oh, sorry, we're not discussing her sex life any more, are we.

1) If you could have celebrities for parents, who would you choose?
Erm, can I have June Whitfield, John Major, Liz Taylor and Willie Rushton (RIP) for grandparents?

2) If you could be in any movie what would it be?
Oh dear. You shouldn't have asked that. I'd make a dozen or so cameos in "Titanic", holding up Road Runner boards to totally take the dramatic tension out of the film. Then realise that there was no dramatic tension to take out, and just say "Ooh, the ObLeoWetScene Is Next".

Incidentally, a woman's weakly over here claims Mr di Laine said kissing was disguisting. He says they're making it all up. But he's not denying that he goes after women who wouldn't give him a second glance, which does explain why he's been so secretive about his engagement this past year...

3) Who's your favorite Disney character?
The hosts of ABSuck's American Football coverage. Always cracks me up, whatever his name is.

4) Iced tea or lemonade?:
Yes please! Iced tea if it's summer (more than 17 C), lemonade otherwise.

5) Can you do a split?:
No.

6) What's your favorite girl's name?:
Megan. Just because.

7) What's your favorite boy's name?:
Justin. For obvious reasons.

8) Which would you rather do, bungee jump or sky dive?:
Pass the parachute, Maude.

9) Ever been arrested?:
Nowhere near, AFAIK.

10) Ever been so scared that you couldn't scream?:
Erm, nope.

11) What are you most afraid of?:
See answer in part one.

12) What kind of car do you drive?:
I choose not to drive. It's faster that way.

13) What's your dream profession?:
101 minutes a day designing great web pages.

14) What's your driving pet peeve?:
Drivers who think they own the road. They don't. We pedestrians do.

15) Where's your dream vacation destination?:
Sound Symposium 00. See you there, then.

16) Whipped cream or Cool Whip?:
I'll take a rain-check on that, Jeremy.

17) If you could have an autographed picture of anyone living, who would it be?:
I may just try to fix this before the end of the summer.

18) What's your favorite present sit-com?:
Mmm, "Third Rock".

19) Who's your favorite comedian?:
Two words: Mark Steel. [obradio4] The Mark Steel Revolution airs 1830 Tuesday, repeated 2300 Wednesday. History in a compost heap.

Codsall: sun, showers, 19 * Tonight's numbers: 4, 11, 12, 34, 38, 44

OK, the promised post looking at the ethical matters we've been discussing recently.

Rachel
the bible says don't be united with an unbeliever (non Christian), because everyone you are around affects the way you are, the way who act, and being that close to someone can really effect you. Do you know what I mean?
Erm, not really. First, I'd like you to cite chapter and verse for your Biblical claim. Then, well, we're straight back in that denial of responsibility arena again. You seem to be suggesting "Oh, my faith is so weak that if I dare associate with people who don't believe, then I'll have so many doubts that I'll be taken in by their suggestions, and lose myself." Which, I suggest, shows that either your faith is not all it claims to be, or you're scared of something. If your faith was strong and right, then surely there would be no issue in living with other folk, as you'd be right and they wouldn't.

Shobi chews over the related ethical issue of obedience as a societal norm. My personal view is that there's always been a strong undercurrent of disobedience from the stated norm: Christians in ancient Rome, witches in the Middle Ages, Catholics in 18th Century England. For every person who is happy to accept what society portrays as "normal", "accepted" and be obedient to those rules, there's someone who doesn't like that, who wants to change.

It seems to be innate in all humanity to be scared of a crowd. To be scared of losing one's identity, to be submerged in the masses.

This could be the first society in many generations that actually encourages this process of differentiation. There's no stigma to being gay, or the child of unmarried parents. This leaves those who want to rebel against society no room to kick in that direction: instead, they tend to move in the other way, back towards organised religion, conformity, and some strong lining to their lives. Witness the rise in "Christian" and millennial cults, the campaigns to bring prayer back into US public schools.

Food for thought, anyway...

Julia of another list * Can't you see? Can't you hear?
Brum: showers & 19 * Orangemen turned into squash

Right, this will be the first of three or four posts from me over the next few days. In an hour or so, thoughts on the morals of the world. Tomorrow, my multiple questionnaire post. But first, this...

Britt's fave foods:
chicken and cheese
Hmm, that's a new one. I'll have to suggest it to my sister, to go with her anchovies and custard.

It also reminds me of the latest idea they have at a pub near me: cheesy garlic bread. It's garlic bread, but it's cheesy. So no garlic smell afterwards, but no garlic taste to start with.

So, I hear that ads are running in the NYT, WP and UsaT from groups comparing homosexuals to alcoholics, compulsive thieves and sex addicts. Can we expect them to set up freecall numbers for Bailey Salinger, Nikka Lott and Bill Clintern, only to route them through to unsuspecting fisherfolk in Stephenville?

The whole Tori Amos thing. I think everyone knows about "Little Earthquakes". For my money, "Under the Pink" is a logical development from that album, with no real surprises and two of her most hummable tracks (Cornflake Girl and Pretty Good Year). "Boys for Pele" went off into a broad left field obscure kick. It is very, very hard to get into, and even now there are bits that just go right over my head. "From the Choirgirl Hotel" is probably her most accessible work to date; parts of it remind me a lot of the Adiemus project meeting Enya. Which is good. And this doesn't touch on her Other Career, as a dance diva.

Swirlee
she definatly hit mainstream when spark came out.
Not over here, she didn't. Off the top of my head, Tori's only gotten wide airplay for one release since finishing with "Under the Pink", and that was Armand van Helden's drastic remix of "Professional Widow". Tori remains an underground, cult, act, who has played the Wolverhampton Civic (capacity: about 1200) on each tour since 94.

Mel
she just sells the arenas out which sucks!!!!
Erm, would someone please explain why an arena show would be any less valid than the traditional piano-on-a-stage show? Especially when the whole sound of FtCH - which is what she's promoting the most, lest we forget - screams for a gig on a sunny summer evening. Outdoors.

Incidentally, I gather that Tori's married a British producer. Which makes her eligible for a British passport, and hence eligible for a nomination as the Best British Female at next year's Brit awards. Now, who is her competition? Des'ree, and, er that's it. Clear a space on the mantelpiece...

Ashley
Does anyone else have "The Box" station on their cable?
I gather Birmingham cable offers it. Though the UK operation is based around an 0500 freecall number. It's the only way they can get requests.

Shana (Sunshine)
la la la
See! Knew the Tubbies would get her in the end (:

'Chelle! Co-ordinates! Thank you!! We like it, and we're using it!!!

Scratch my beard, it's the Wizard of SalliWoo!
Monday I stopped over at my friends house and we watched Greece!
Oh, her holiday videos from the only country that gives Cyprus 12 at EuroSong. Sounds (yawn) exciting.
Cie la Vie (or whatever) by B*Witched!
Ah...

#Say you will, say you won't
#Say you'll do what I don't
#Say it true, say to me, c'est la vie.#

Sara wonders about "The Boys of Summer". It is an utterly wonderful Don Henley song, from his 1984 album "Building the Perfect Beast". It's named after the Yankees side of the late 50's, and perfectly describes the feeling of late summer, when the chill is back in the air, clouds are in the sky, and all you have left are memories. And, for no obvious reason, it's back out as a single, and I've bought it, and it's wonderful.
Iseen a temperature thing yesterday for at home, and it was someting like 92 degrees (F). Ooh, how I wish it was the same temperature over here!!!!
No you don't. In Britain, that heat is always accompanied by excessive humidity, and it feels absolutely horrible. You don't want it to be 92. Take a nice, comfortable, 72.

I don't want to do companies webpages, cause they're SO boring. ugh..white backgrounds, and black text...yuck, yuck.
This just shows the paucity of imagination behind that company's design. And if the website is unimaginative, why should A. N. Purchaser think that the company has a spark of a new idea?
You have to admit..business pages are just so boring. I know, I know..businessy webpages are supposed to be for information, but still...I hate going to those kinda of sites, cause they bore me to death, and I can hardly read the information that I have to.
Which means that the page is failed. It has ceased to communicate. It is not fulfilling its purpose. It has stopped functioning. It's probably pining for the fjords.
I wonder how much I'm responsible for ;-)
By my calculations, about 14326.4%. Or something.
I meant it directed towards love.
Ah. Directing toward the inevitability behind an emotional process. Then my criticism is not valid, and I apologise for the inconvenience caused.

Cory
Iain, have you never heard of a karass? A wampeter? Amber Valone would be ashamed. ;)
Hey, a chap's entitled to argue a point. It seemed as though Sara was abdicating responsibility for everything, a concept that really offends me. I'm very glad to find out that I misunderstood her comments.
"There's no bad time for something chocolaty."
Which reminds me: Mark, shim, you said something about Cadbury World... can anyone come?

Sara
opal fruits are now called starburst over here :) snickers used to be called marathon over here....but now they're called snickers
Heck, you can call them what you like. So far as I'm concerned, they are Opal Fruits and Marathon bars. Just like the breakfast cereals are Raisin Splitz and Bran Flakes. Some of my colleagues work for Lybrand Associates, not PriceWaterhouseCoopers (PWC!) And the independent television contractors for the midlands is ATV, not Central, and certainly not Carlton Midlands.
basically, what the fancy digest does is, when you want to reply to a message, somehow it will just take out that one particular message from the whole big digest
Naah, it'll never catch on. Chop and paste is the way forward into the 13th Century. (:
I can't drive :( they took my lovely little license away from me.
Let's be strictly accurate about this: Sara can drive, but the bizarre state of Wisconsin does not permit her to.

[taps side of head]

These Americans are crazy.

[/obasterix]

Elaine
are shim, brem, deca, other people here?
shim is here, and having fun in Brighton. Brem is no longer moving amongst us, and Deca is having a brief visit to Lurkerdom.

icq: 14441391 * and the beat goes on... * Dipsy d'elsewhere
Brum: showers & 19 * No snowflake falls in the wrong place

To be frank, any excuse to play "The Boys of Summer" is a good excuse. And when the excuse is that I have the re-released single of this Don Henley classic in my mitt, it's utterly wonderful. Indeed, if I hadn't made this Single of The Month (March 1985), I might give it the honour for this month.

Unlike the weather. Heavy storms and general nastiness. In the middle of July, for Pete's sake!

Though "Daria" popped back up on (5) Sunday. 11am, for those of you who can get it. And it's the New Episodes, coming just a few weeks after they first appeared on MTV. Coolness!

Jill
I got me a pair of awesome purple PVC sandals!!
Oh, excellent! Not only are they purple, but they're PVC as well! Which reminds me, does anyone know a synonym for the word "location" that begins with the letter "c". Coz I've got "Person of Variable Location" to describe someone who doesn't sit at their desk all day, but I'd like the acronym to be PVC.

Roman
Is this the unraveling of the Liberty fabric we're seeing here? The sadness, the quiet. The end?
Er, I don't think so. In the past week, we've had a lot of people posting a lot of material about themselves, courtesy of the questionnaire Sara forwarded. We've had news of people planning to meet in California, and we've had five disparate listies spend a day terrorising London. No, I don't think this list is falling to bits.
What have you been doing over the summer?
Looking for a better job than the one I'm doing.

Minna, welcome! Let me just reach over, and colour in Finland. Anyone on here from Russia? Or Africa?

Shelby on Disney characters
i don't wanna think about the physical merits of animated people
They're all awfully flat, and very two-dimensional. No depth to them. What you see is what you get.

Sara
isn't that just your messages? I didn't know you had an archive of the list...
I don't. Not on my web pages; plain text versions of messages since May 1 this year would be 10Mb on their own. Besides, I'm not comfortable about putting up other people's messages without permission. I reckon some glimpse of the topics we've been debating is better than none, and put forward the archive of my posts to fill that gap. It's also around 250K over the same period. Which means that I'm responsible for about 2.5% of the list postings... shoot!

Minna
Trent from Daria *IS* cute:)
Mmm, in a way that's totally appropriate for the show, but not necessarily in real life...

Angie, well done for your footy prediction.more...

For the past ten years or so, there's been a little snippet of lyric that's been bugging me. A male voice, singing softly "I, I'm never gonna break your heart". Then the news jingle cut in. And I never quite worked out what it was from. Until I heard it the other night. Answer at the end of the post.more...

Sara
If something is going to happen, it will. Whether you want it to or not.
Brem would have had a field day with this kind of line. It's the mentality that says that none of us can make a difference. Everything is pre-ordained for us. We're all reading from someone else's script. It's a denial of the individual free will, and a promotion of some form of superior force.

Some things appear fated to happen, but you have the power to change them, bend them, shape them, in the way you want them to go. And if you have a good case, and/or a powerful manner, then you will be able to change things.

shim
obneighbours
Mark! Stop corrupting her! You do realise that "Neighbours" clashes with not only "Light Lunch" but also "Working Lunch", starring Adrian Chiles, the one (and only) West Brom fan. What's that? You watch the tea-time repeat? Good call.
reading listmail is more time consuming than reading a novel or two.
[checks time-and-motion study] In fact, reading and responding to this list's mail is as time-consuming as reading 6.16 novels per month. Or 42.1 Jeffrey Archer books.
why the hell is phil collins' national fan club centered in the suburbs of kansas city? it's the wrong frigging country, for one thing!
Because Phil Collins only has one fan in the entirity of North America. Sadly, that poor, misguided individual lives in a suburb of Chief City. And supports the Broncos. (can you tell it's only eight weeks till kick-off yet?:)
Do you like to dance?
yay! yes...as anyone who's met me in london can reassure you.
A London sputnik writes: This Is True.
the weezer video was cute. i just said weezer was cute.
Noooooo.... you just said the Weezer video was cute. This does not extend in any logical way to suggest you think the band itself is at all deserving of being described as cute. And, as a Dot of the list, you should know about cute.

The connection between Kenickie and Green Day? Well, other than they cropped up in close proximity in Marissa's post recently, I'd probably have trouble reducing it below 25 Degrees.

PVC and jelly. Although both fall under the description of "Man- Made Fibres" [ob Just a Minute], jelly deforms slightly to the touch. PVC is shiny.

And for Ariel's information, PVC is the work of a major deity, and is worn by other major deities. See also: glitter.

Shannon
why did the chicken cross the road?
Because there was a sundial on the far side?

Actually, can I change my answer to Prettiest Disney Girl? To Daria? No? Oh.
i'm not sure what font this is. i think it's 10 pt. ariel.
Looks more like 9 pt Courier New, till I paste it into Notepad, when it becomes 9 pt System. Unless I'm doing it at work, when it's 11 pt Trebuchet (one cool font...)

Becky! Welcome aboard!

Addenda to the US-UK guide:

• Buns. Don't forget about having one in the oven (obSara).
• Naff. Of poor, disreputable quality. From the RAF marking No Apparent Function. See also: Labour backbenchers.

And finally. I'm listening to a track called "Run Runaway" off the ultra-cheap album "This is Modern Folk" (2.99 from all good record stores - a snip!). It's performed by Newfoundland's biggest band, Great Big Sea. But it's not a traditional Newfie song, no. It was written by Jimmy Lea and Noddy Holder, of Slade. A group who wrote their early material in Slade Gardens, less than a mile from my home.

Life goes in cycles... * Dipsy of another place, other lawn's Jody
Brum: showers & 19 * St John's Connexion * does strange things

So, what else is happening on this list? This post, for starters.

Sally, welcome back. A check of my archives will fill you in on exactly what you've missed: follow the link down in my sig.

Thanks to Nichole for telling us about the Claire calculator. Nice. The receptionist at work loves the Leo di Laine one, as well. Mmm, nice biccies for me (:

Christina asks
any other Natalie Imbruglia fans out there?
I wouldn't necessarily call myself a dyed-in-the-wool fan, but seeing as how I've been looking for her album to be chopped down to 10 quid, and still don't retune the radio when they play "Torn" (a mere 37 weeks after it first charted..) (that's 8.5 months), I guess I could fall into that category.

Well, you've seen my questionnaire. So I suppose that gives me the chance to comment on other people's.

Sara... hey, you started it (:
pick a duck!
Ed! Orville! Quackers!
I kinda like all of them, except Uranus. That's such a dumb name.
The GSPCU [Galactic Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Uranus] writes: That's because you're not pronouncing it correctly. The accent should be on the first syllable. YOOR-unus.

chelle
i think lara croft is a damn cool ass-kickin chick and i think that's pretty awesome. i don't have a crush on her tho.
Not sure how far this has got outside the UK... the makers of that game have managed to find a "body double" of Ms Croft. Actually, she looks nothing much like Croft: they're both tall, and have long black hair, but that's about it. She's called Rhona Mitra, and is probably now best known for presenting Channel 5's music chart show. The same channel that plugs Xena after that show every week. Go fig.

The Priestess Cory! The Laa-Laa of the Desert!! Is back! Yay!!

Shana (Sun)
I've been to Disneyworld 17 times
pluto. dunno why, but I like it.
Could these two favourites be linked it any way?

Shana (Storm)
Kanga
Thank you! Someone else who admires the Antipodean team.

James Ahab
if you're pro-choice, go to hell
I'll send you a card from there... [obmscl]

Deca likes bands
From A-Ha to Tom Waits.
XTC speak highly of you as well (;

Cory states her preferance
cute
Dammit. I've just this week figured out who I think is the Dot Warner of the list. Ack.

ALI cites as cool
my Mom, cuz she rocks.
This is true.

And in loudness...
My Siblings
This is also true. My ears are yet to stop ringing.

Lisa!!
this guy has a memory and a half.
You do me a disservice. A memory and three quarters, if you'd be so kind...
I forced them to enter the "Trocadero"
This was, of course, in order for shim to buy some Really Tacky Mugs (tm), and with the Troc being the Nastiest Place In Europe (tm), the two kinda went together. Incidentally, nastiest place on Earth is Platform 1a at Birmingham International station, but that's another story.
Gum is only exciting for a few minutes.
Carry on at this rate, and I'll have to start another page: Lisa's Home Truths.
What's a pocket watch?
Have a quick look at "Alice in Wonderland". It's what the Dormouse (or is it the Mad Hatter? One of them anyway) uses.
89. Do you read the newspaper?
Not enough. Always film and TV sections.
...and not the Grauniad Wot section Mondaily? What would Emma think? And, more importantly, who cares?more...
95. What bands do you like?
Elastic
ROFL. It took me three reads to get this. I must be tired...

Sean, I would like to respond to your writings, but I don't have the nous to translate them into English. I knew I should have taken Latin at school. (You did - Ed). Oh.

OWC: 3rd: Ned - Eng, 19h today * Final: Brz - Esp, 19h Sun
Codsall: showers & 18 * And this to the marching Oranges: squidge

Heck, it's a real quiet day.

Name: Iain. Previous messages have disclosed the middle name.
1a. Sex: male. D'oh!
1b. Preference: Is an indication of liking something over another thing.

2. Who was the best teacher you ever had?
Miss Goss, the mad Latin teacher.

3.If you could say anything to anyone and not get in trouble for it, what would you say, and to whom?
Quite frankly, I don't care to bite my tongue for anyone. So if I want to say it, I'll say it.

4.How long can you hold your breath?
Until I let it out (: About 25 seconds.

5.Who is the coolest person you know?
Someone standing at the North pole? Maybe. A lot of you listies are very cool - I'll not name names, otherwise people will be annoyed I've left them out.

6.What came first-the chicken or the egg?
The egg.

7.What is your favorite game to play at the carnival?
Spot the silly people who think they can win at the seriously rigged games.

8.Would you rather go to Disneyworld or Disneyland?
I'd sooner spend time with some of you guys.

9.What is your favorite planet?
Saturn. Though I do have a soft spot for Chiron. And Eros. And there's nothing wrong with Uranus.

10.Stripes or spots?
Stripes.

11.What is your favorite kind of gum?
The sort that's a mug.

12.How many times have you seen Titanic?
Nil. Next question. ["phew" - the entire list]

13.Can you swim?
Yes.

14. Do you like to swim?
Not hugely.

15.Superman or Spiderman?
Spiderman, at a pinch. Superman is just too - well - nice.

16.Fellback or Fusion?
?

17.Do you say AH ranges or OR anges?
I have an almost perfect BBC accent (well, it is to a North American ear), so it's Or-in-jez

18.If someone offered you a million dollars for them to sleep with your spouse, would you accept?
This question is not applicable at the present moment. But putatively, no.

19.Do you like plaid pants?
On the right person, they're great. I'm not the right person.

20.Pro-life or Pro-choice?
Pro choice. Even if you have the option, no-one is forcing you to use it.

21.Do you like Chris Rock?
I prefer the Rock.

22.What would you do if you knew you would die tomorrow?
Time to dig out those MSCL tapes...

23.Have you ever tried running away?
No.

24.Do you prefer pools or oceans?
Oceans. The whole grand expanse thing...

25.Who do you most wish you were?
See earlier comments about not offending other listies by exclusion.

26.Do you watch Buffy The Vampire Slayer?
[through gritted teeth] I'd like to...

27.Pencil or pen?
Pen, except on a hot day.

28.Who's better......boys or girls?
Who's batter, the AL or the NL?

29.Would you like to own a motorcycle?
No.

30.Do you sing in the shower?
It has been known. Though listening to Wimbledon commentary is not generally condusive to exercising one's vocal ranges.

31. Wrist watch or pocket watch?
Wrist.

32.Who's the best looking person you know?(besides famous people)
Usual listie caveat.

33.Who's the prettiest Disney movie gal?
Quasi.

34.What kind of animal do you think you look like?
A human bean?

35.What do you think is the best way to die?
Suddenly.

36.Have you ever called a 900 number?
Seeing as how some Wolverhampton numbers were 01900, yes. Don't think this is what our question setter had in mind somehow...

37.Gold or silver?
Silver, if you must.

38.Would you ever go bunji-jumping?
Noooooo...

39. Do you like dressing up?
Not really. If I must, I must, but it's terribly restrictive.

40.Do you find Ben Savage at all attractive?
Pass the barf bag, Marjorie.

41. Would you go to Australia?
No.

42.Would you rather be short or tall?
No. Average does me fine.

43.Do you enjoy reading?
Indeed.

44. Do you watch TGIF?
Seeing as how the closest I get is TFI (Thank Four [or something else] it's) Friday with the media part Cliff Evans, no way.

45. Do you like nothin but beef Guilbealt?
A translation of this question is available somewhere, I'm sure.

46.Which Winnie the Pooh character do you like the best?
Kanga. Wise, but not a show off.

47.Do you sleep with a stuffed animal?
No.

48.Do you think you're attractive?
Not particularly.

49.What's your favorite Super Nintendo game?
Find the Off Switch.

50.Genesis?
Aging prog rockers. Went downhill badly after Johnathan King discovered them.

51.Play Station?
Codsall station is better. So's Euston. To be blunt, so is New Street. And I hate New Street.

52. Nintendo 64?
LA Lakers 95.

53. Atari?
No, a coffee, please.

54.What's your biggest fear?
Being alone.

55.Favorite animal?
Animal! Animal! Animal! [/obmuppet]

56.Who is the least attractive person you know?
I would respond to this, only I'd leave myself open to a warning from the admins.

57.What is your opinion of Amy G.?
A vastly under-rated singer.

58. Are you an optimist or pessimist?
Optimistic, within bounds.

59.Would you ever have cosmetic surgery?
No.

60.Do you like to dance?
Not usually, but if the moment and the company are right.

61.Do you smoke?
No.

62. Better to cry or laugh?
It depends.

63.Do you think socks are fun?
Socks are nice, but bare feet are a lot more fun.

64.Do you drink?
In moderation.

65.Blue or black ink?
Blue every time.

66.Do you think men and women can ever just be friends without wanting eachother?
It's possible, certainly.

67.Is happy or depressing music better?
Is being happy or depressed better?

68.What's your "type"?
Memorandum, the type used in the MSCL closing titles. Or Times Roman.

69.What do you think of the way everyone makes such a big deal of this number?
Now, 222, that's far more interesting.

70. Do you bite your nails?
Yes, but only when they need cutting anyway.

71. Ever been in love?
Yes.

72. Ever wanted to kill yourself?
Yes.

73.Do you floss?
Very rarely.

74. Who do you admire the most?
People who know what they want, and have the confidence to get it.

76.Which movies have you cried at?
None, I think.

77.Do you believe in God?
Not in the conventional sense. There are deities around us right now...

78.Did you ever cry over someone of the opposite sex?
Is the moon in the sky?

79. Have you ever stolen anything?
Yes.

80. Do you watch Happy Days?
Nope.

81.Did you ever have a crush on a cartoon character? Who?
No.

82.Have you ever worn sandals with socks?
D'oh! No way.

83. Did you have a mini-backpack in 6th grade?
No. I always had a full-sized backpack. And my current one is a nice dark red (:

84.Who was your first crush?
Mmm, Claire Jacques at 13.

85. Do you organize your CD's?
Yes, by broad category of music. From Girl Power through Guitar based Rock, to Adult, Shows, Classicals and Dance.

86.How often do you shower?
Every day or two.

87. Whose your favorite Sesame Street character?
Cookie!

88.Do you like Marilyn Manson?
Who?

89. Do you read the newspaper?
Most days. Internet newspapers are the best.

91. Who is the loudest person you know?
Annoying workmate Anthony. All bluster exhorting us to do something, and never doing it himself.

92.Who is the weirdest person you know?
Me, probably.

93. Do you sneeze a lot?
Only in hay fever season (ending soon, I hope)

94. Do you find this survey fun, or just a pain in the ass?
There were more boring things to do today.

95. What bands do you like?
Almost any from Abba to 22 Top.

Brum: sunny & 21 * Spain -v- England 19h UTC

Later: party in the park, and words from our sponsor. But first

Mark's middle name
james
Good choice. Shall we start a "James in the Middle" club?

James Ahab, hello there.

Shana (Sunshine)
if you go to my site and click on "So-called IM List" (or whatever it's called) it'll load a really fucked up page thanks to geocities fucking me over (yay geocities... NOT) So yeah.
Oh, what an amazing surprise! That never ever happens to me. Not at all. I never get the "This service is unavailable" message. And there's no bug at the bottom right corner of my page. To find out which one of these claims is true, write me off list.

Lisa (welcome back!) challenges
Lisa Milan Albarn-Arquette-Bing-Burgess-Cusack-Depp-Perry-Rudd- Williams Forrest
That'll be Damon, Patricia, Chandler, Tim, Sinead, Johnny, Matthew, Mrs, and John. I think.more...

Cassandra, see you next month...

Last time, Sara claims
Hey hey now, you forgot Lisa both times!!!!
Whoops! OK, so I missed meeting Lisa in April.. sorry, chuck. I did point out that
I think only Sara and Ross are still active posters.
Active. And, at the time I wrote, Lisa wasn't active. Weasel, weasel, weasel (:

Deca reports
the 1998 comeback of German band Modern Talking.
Mmm, I noticed. Not that I like. Not at all.

Shana (Sun)
tinkywinky... dipsy... la la... poe. [wakes up] [screams] aaah... those damn teletubbies... ugh... such a horrible nightmare... I thought it'd never end. [giggles and runs from Iain]
And the resident Laa-Lae of the List: the Laa-Laa of the Desert and the Laa-Laa of the Plains (currently of the Rock).

Jaime
The friends I've told about me liking him (I only tell people who don't know him) think going out with a bi guy is only asking for trouble. I disasgree.
A bi guy writes: Erm, I disagree as well. Dating me is not asking for trouble. Dating me gives you access to someone who will care deeply and intensely for you. Just not hamstrung by your gender, that's all.

This Week's New Album:
* BARENAKED LADIES - Stunt
If I had a million copies, I'd be quite barking, really.more...

Kenickie. Is. Guitar-based three girls and a lad (when they made their first album) band. Combining self-confidence and arrogance with vulnerability and self-doubt. Responsible for consuming 42% of the UK's gross use of glitter during 1997. Oh, and semi-official band of the list. Buy "At the Club". Just once.

Incidentally, the trails suggest there's some Kenickie sound files at www.dotmusic.com this week. I'm damned if I can find it.

Shobi refers to
that hopefully not patented but sometimes quite fragmented Iainesque manner.
It's not patented. It's just not innovative enough to be patantable. Anyone can do it. And you're more than welcome to. Just don't try to pass your writings off as mine.
Lisa, Shim, Mark & Amal. Tell just one of them to post more often.
Seeing as how I left out at least three obvious things from my post, I'm hoping they'll all chime in with their sides of the story.
What is Amal doing in Europe anyway? Vacationing?
Yes. So much for the enigma line. Well, he says he's on holiday.
I promise to post again soon
Oh good. If it carries on at this rate, there will be nothing for me to respond to other than my own posts. And that would be just too bizarre for words.

Back to the epocsoerazzib.

icq: 14441391 * Semi: Brazil 1 Netherlands 0 * Spa -v- Eng 19h Brum: rain later & 17 * Don't stop now, just when we're hating it

I was wondering to myself, why the blazes am I here. Here being platform 2 at Stafford station, waiting for a train that was going forward to engage reverse gear and head towards London. Within two hours, it had indeed engaged reverse gear and was arriving at Euston.

Whoosh! Down to the Underground ticket machine, and to the Northern line (City branch) (Southbound) for a train to Bank. Curses! As one pulls out before my eyes, and another doesn't arrive for five minutes. Then whoosh! along the path to Monument, and a District liner to Tower Hill.

Upstairs at Tower Hill, it's bright and sunny. And sitting in a very visible place is a Laa-Laa backpack. "That," I thought to myself, "must be directly behind shimelle." And it was. Sitting next to shimelle was a young man who could only be Mark. Mainly coz he was.

We said our helloes, and sat back to wait for Lisa and Amal. Pondering deep, meaningful questions about the meaning of life and the intrinsic power of the Teletubbies, we spotted Lisa lurking by the exit to the station. Now, lurking in the shadows is not something that should come naturally to Lisa, so we waved hard and invited her up to join us. Then, while my back was turned, Amal appeared from nowhere. And we were set...

First on the agenda was something to eat. Eating, we decided, is A Good Move. Eating near the Tower, though, is Not A Good Move, being all fast food joints and shoddy and expensive ice cream parlours. So we made the tube connections to Piccadilly Circus, posed nicely for photographs, and started finding somewhere to eat.

This process, though, was interrupted by shimelle's desire to pick up some Really Tacky Mugs (tm) for her grandparents. We hawked round a tea shop, but rejected their wares as just too staid and plain. Then we found a store that sold utter crap. We could tell that by the preponderance of Diana memorabilia in the window, and the statement that "(store X) has made a donation to the Diana Memorial Fund in respect of these items". A donation of size adjacent to one new penny, I'll be bound.

So, with two Union Jack mugs in tow (as opposed to in Laa-Laa), we set sail for a restaurant. Finally alighting on a Decently Cheap Restaurant, we all selected our favourite Chinese dish. Dead animals and rice for Lisa; dead animal and noodles for Mark and Amal; rice and vegetables for shim and myself. Go fig. And the dessert is a large plate of orange segments. The spirit of Brem is with us still.

After our repast, we decide to head for Covent Garden. It's somewhere to aim at, and Lisa's map shows the approximate way to go. Not that Lisa will ever admit to leading us: she's just the one with the map, natch. Indeed, some touristy types are looking for Oxford Street, and Lisa's map tells them the way to go. Up Charing Cross Road till you find it. Lisa's map doesn't show the Exceedingly Nice Bag Shop, though; shim spots it and dives in for an Exceedingly Nice Paper Bag.

We, however, need to go down Charing Cross Road, towards Trafalgar Square. And we stop by a film and pop culture memorabilia shop. Lisa is struck by the preponderance of "South Park" goodies. ["South Park" begins its run at 11:30 this Friday on Channel Four. Lisa points out that they'd better not show the version edited for language, as this will be more beep that word.]more...

Mark is struck by the number of cards and posters devoted to his lovely Babara Streisand. That's "S-t-r-e-i-s-a-n-d, pronounced 'Frost'". Lisa would go bananas over the amount of "Friends" goodies and knick-knacks there are floating around, but she's way too cool to go bananas over anything. Amal just watches on, amused at everything that's happening.

Between them, shim and Lisa buy a collection of postcards of Leo, Rocky Horror and sundry other cultural icons de nos jours. And shim picks up some very large (like, massive) posters for "Romeo + Juliet" and "Rent". Posters that even Mark has trouble lugging around.

Then, from one pop culture shop to another. Lisa wants to pop in "just for a moment". We spend a good half hour in there. We spot autographed pictures of various famous stars: Claire's autograph is 60 pounds, the same as Courtney Cox. Neve Campbell is ten pounds cheaper, while one of Leo, Kate Winsome and James Cameron will go for a whopping 499 pounds. Ouch!

This is a cool store. It features a full rack of postcards starring young Leo di Laine, and some "Romeo + Juliet" postcards that even movie-mistress shim hadn't seen before. As well as prints from the publicity photo-section for that movie. I bought one of those, and wonderful it will look when framed. shim spotted some fake dollar bills, bearing the head of her fiance. Very much so.

Sated by all this Hollywood art, we finally complete the journey to Covent Garden. It's taken us the better part of two hours to walk the mile or so.

Amal is somewhat taken by the crowd of artisans in the area. There's one chap playing something that looks like a set of bedsprings of different lengths (well, more musical than my singing...) and another chap going through his yoga exercises while painted pink with yellow splodges. Mark is of the opinion that this is just a waste of time. I call up Sky Sports to offer rights to the pay-per-view boxing his comment causes.

shim heads into the Doc Martens store, looking for - well, what was shim looking for in there? Something glittery and boot-tastic, no doubt. She sees that band's boots, as well as ones from Aerosmith. And on the CD player conveniently placed on the second floor, it's a Kenickie CD! Two of them, in fact! The two singles for "Punka" from last year. This, my friends, is how to make Laa-Laa dance in the middle of the store.

I'm getting rather thirsty by this point, so we head towards the nearest cafe. En route, we pass by the Channel 5 / Major League Baseball exhibition. Showing brief highlights of last weekend's games between the Mets and the Yankees, and featuring batting and pitching exhibits. Passing up on this showcase - there's not a Royals cap in sight - we head to the Transport Museum cafe, where cappuchini are the order of the day. We pass around a postcard to one of the people who couldn't be with us today, and discuss reasons why Carol Vorderman will be a great choice for President of the UK.

And then, the end is near. We meander back to Covent Garden tube station, and board a train headed West. Lisa's staying on to Hammersmith, Mark and shim leave at Green Park, but I go just 350 yards down the line to Leicester Square.

It was a great day, spending time with the uber-cool Lisa, the enigmatic enigma that is Amal, and the oddball couple that is Mark and shim. Kudos to you all.

Brum: bright & 17 * England's cricketers: crap * so what's new?
The heart asks pleasure first from MGV

Ooh, it's good to be back.

Discovery of the week: Radio 10 Gold. Playing some of the greatest music of all time: the Jackson's "Can you feel it", and no mentions of chimneys at all. Diana Ross' "Coming out", sans money or problems. And it's in Dutch, of which I don't understand a word, but the presenters still make more sense than the local Top 40 station. 675 kHz across north west Europe.

Eric Geyer reported on the start of my problems last Sunday - the cable cutting in Ohio. As soon as that came up, psinet's cross- Atlantic cable went whoomph, not to be repaired till Friday. It meant no list through hotmail till I hit the 'rents' over the weekend.

Eric again
on a 1:1 square screen like a TV screnn
Bzzz! TV screen is 4:3. Widescreen TV will be 16:9. The BBC shows most movies (and News 24, curiously) in 14:9, a halfway house between the two. Regular viewers lose the last edge on each side, widescreeners watching the digital transmissions get a wider box at top and bottom. See, knew the MHP would come in handy on this list (:

Where I learn that "Friends" in Australia features five commercial breaks. In a 30 minute show. Here, I get annoyed at the one.

Roman relates a tale of some eedjit who wouldn't drop him a dime to make up his bus fare. Gosh. A whole 6p. Now, I can see many reasons to refuse to give money to a stranger - like, he didn't have the change, or feared attack. But there's no reason to be uncivil about it. Still less spit on the pavement - a criminal offence, I'd hope.

Shana (Sun)
I don't know what the US country code is
Same as Canada's, 1. Don't forget your International Access Code before it (00 from most of Europe...)

~Laura's music questions
In the morning: something bright, tuneful but not too loud.
In the car: what's a car, ma? Some of us travel everywhere by train (:
At night: whatever comes to hand.
Song that says the most about me: "Alisha rules the world".
To do an Angela-dance: "Freedom" or "The edge of heaven". Both late-era Wham! Or "Diva!", the Eurosong winner. Though my Angela dances are more vocal than physical exercises.
Down time: Adiemus and Karl Jenkins' other works, or some Nyman.
Erstwhile crushes and loves: Everything and nothing. Just about all the stuff I listen to I associate with other people, so I tend to forget about the baggage and enjoy the now.

Alikat enquires
please excuse my stupidity, but what is a spam??
A spam (small letters), is a small pink creature that roams the high ground in South Wales (near Brecon, mainly), Devon and Cornwall, and Brittany. About six inches long when fully grown, the spam is known to botanists only for its amazingly large wardrobe. It's able to disguise itself as a mole, rabbit, vole, weasel or any other small furry mammal. The only way a trained spam-trapper can tell it apart from the real animal it's imitating is by the tell-tale small white label attached to the underside of the costume; being notoriously poor at telling their whites from their delicates, spams always keep the washing instructions attached to their purchases.

A Spam (initial capital), is a can of meat-substitute. It was given this name owing to the originals' shape being almost exactly that of a wild spam. Subsequent revisions have made the can taller, and with more pronounced edges.

Jenn proposes a Brian-Rickie axis. It's very possible, though I think that at the moment, it's more to do with them both feeling excluded from their definition of "the in crowd" - Brian looking to Sharon's apparent staid life, Rickie to Rayanne's apparent glamourous existence. I don't think there's any attraction there at the moment, but then Brian doesn't know that Rickie's out. Maybe he'll change his ideas when he does...

So, posting Joan Osbourne quotes gets Brandy out the woodwork. Posting
"everybody needs a bosom for a pillow..."
(Wolverhampton's Cornershop, quoted by Kori)
gets me up and about. So what happens if I quote
"I swear, by the moon and the stars in the sky, I'll be there..."

~Laura's summer addict questions
TV reruns: I gather there will be old Monty Pythons, which is always enjoyable. And the Fawlty Towers the other night was fab. Though with new series of South Park, Friends, Xena and many others, I'll mainly stick with first-runs.more...

So, Brem's gone. With just two Staffordshire people on this list, I think we've now been pipped for the Large Area You're Least Unlikely To Bump Into A Listee By Walking Randomly Down a Street honour. By New York, probably.

~Laura, Eli, also part of our Heritage.

Oh, I'm staying. Sorry to spoil all your days with that news, but I was genuinely surprised and touched at the number of posts pondering my enforced absence this week. None is one too many.

[Dammit, the spirit of Brem lives on]

shim enquires
who all was at that last big london get-together?
April 4: Brem, Phil, Deca, James, Sara, Ross, Marguerite and her pal, and me.
Of last August, I think only Sara and Ross are still active posters.
But, if you and/or Mark need to contact me, your housemate has my number. Go fig.

Codsall; cloud & 17