Mike Allred Interview

A Q&A with Mike Allred, creator of Madman and member of Legend.
by Brad Cook

Q: Why did you join Legend?

A: When it came down to deciding whether to accept the invitation to join LEGEND it was a no-brainer. Other than not being as prolific, the other guys in LEGEND are our generation's equivalent to the talent gathered in the 50's at EC COMICS. I couldn't be more proud to be associated with them. Our goal, when all is said and done, is for our group to have left behind a legacy of quality original STORYTELLING. Let me say that word again...STORYTELLING. This group provides a standard for excellence motivated by an intense love for the comic book medium. Whether or not it's felt that my work has reached the level of excellence set by that standard, I feel I've at least grown simply for having tried.

Q: What sort of impact did you expect the group to make - either on your professional careers or on the industry, or both - and has it met those expectations?

A: I never had any expectations toward making an impact since I wasn't with the group when they were originally making goals, if that ever even happened. I know that when I heard of the formation of LEGEND I had two thoughts: 1) "Gee, what a presumptuous name." & 2) "Gosh, wouldn't it be fantastic to be part of that roster?" To be honest, If any impact has been made on any of our careers or the industry, I would have to say only a subtle one. I do believe that by the logo focusing attention on all our work as a whole, it does fly a flag that makes a declaration of quality and makes a strong argument for owning, controlling and creating original comics since all of us passionately follow our own muses. As far as meeting expectations, it's surpassed mine.

Q: When Legend first started, there was talk that the logo would follow the creators wherever they went, since it wasn't a Dark Horse imprint but actually a creator imprint. However, I've noticed that that hasn't been the case, such as with Miller's Daredevil mini-series from Marvel a couple years ago, or even the re-release of Dark Knight Returns from DC. Why is that? Are other publishers afraid of getting mixed up with Dark Horse since most comic buyers wrongly assume Legend is a subset of Dark Horse, or have the Legend creators simply not pressed the issue?

A: The LEGEND imprint represents our creator-OWNED work. Frank doesn't own DAREDEVIL or DARK KNIGHT. I did a Marvel annual with SPIDER-MAN and the FANTASTIC FOUR. I don't own those characters so you won't be seeing the LEGEND logo there either. If, however, any of us did a creator-owned project for say VERTIGO or IMAGE you could see the LEGEND icon there. That hasn't been necessary, however, since we've all been very happy with our relationship with DARK HORSE.

Q: When you talked about meeting your expectations, do you mean as a reader (before you joined) or as a creator? What were your expectations?

A: Both. I'm thrilled with the quality of work that's come from the group as a reader and a fan. I also know for a fact that my work has reached people that probably wouldn't have given it a second glance if it weren't for my association with those other guys. We've all managed to help promote the others work this way.

Since people generally have a misguided idea of the intent of the group maybe it hasn't met theirs. I get the idea most people thought LEGEND was going to be a new company with monthly titles cracking the shelves every month. That's unrealistic.

Q: Have you ever thought of getting into self-publishing, or have any of the other Legend creators considered it?

A: I'm sure we've all thought about it. We're a pretty thoughtful group. But again, since DARK HORSE has treated us, or speaking for myself, ME so well, there's no reason. I have COMPLETE control over what goes in the book, what kind of paper is used, the format, the ads. And most importantly, I have the support of all the talent at DARK HORSE from my editor, Bob Schreck, to the production and marketing staff. I also have the most accessible publisher in the business in Mike Richardson, who also happens to be a HUGE fan of comics as well as being a creator himself. These are assets I couldn't dream of having as a self-publisher. If I was self-publishing, my output would suffer terribly unless I hired all the people who already work with me at DARK HORSE. I'm in the best possible position imaginable. If at some point DARK HORSE pulled the rug out from under me leaving me without that support, obviously self-publishing would be my first consideration. But that ain't happened and I have faith that it won't. I'm betting the others at LEGEND probably feel the same way. Now before I make everything sound like perfume and violins, I don't mind telling you we've had our problems. The ball has been dropped a couple of times, but this would happen in any working relationship. And would certainly happen even more if I was self-publishing.

I'm pretty tired of this argument that you can't be completely independent unless you're self-publishing. Self-publishing is an incredibly risky venture at best. It's become a naively romantic idea to self-publish. But please think about it. It's impossible to create, publish and distribute in a vacuum. NO ONE is completely independent. Show me the self-publishers who write, draw, COLOR, print, distribute and retail their own comics. We're all dependent on others. Especially the enthusiasm, word of mouth, loyalty and good will of the fans. It feels good to get behind someone in the trenches plowing away in the world of self-publishing. It's insane to then pull away that loyalty when situations change and the creator finds he or she can be MORE creative with the support of a publisher. To me, self-publishing ONLY makes sense if a publisher can't or won't give the support felt needed for the work and it's actually EASIER to create doing all the grunt work solo. Or, it's affordable to hire a production staff to keep the creator's time spent creating. There're a lot of facets to this argument, but as long as my relationship stays as good as it is now, I won't waste time thinking about it.

Q: What is Legend, legally speaking? Do you have any sort of collective bargain advantages when dealing with Dark Horse? Do you promote yourselves as Legend through Dark Horse's booths at comic cons?

A: Sure, we are very protective and supportive of each other. Existing as a kind of union is certainly an advantage of the group. And at conventions we'll often appear on panels together and booths together if you ever catch us staying in one place for long. Still, our interests outside of comics are very diverse.

Q: What was the genesis of Madman, and what were your initial expectations for the character?

A: Madman came to me when my two boys reached school age and were wanting to take my comics to school for show and tell to show their friends what their DAD did. I realized my work wasn't something that reached them in a positive entertaining way. Two words that have become unpopular in pop culture over the past decade or two. I dug up all the comics I loved when I was their age and had an epiphany, a revelation. I realized that I still loved the classic work I loved as a kid. [It] still held up and, more often than not, surpassed the quality of artwork and storytelling the majority of comics offer today. Through MADMAN I rediscovered the JOY of comics and set out to make a comic that could be enjoyed by all ages. Adventure with a little philosophy thrown into the mix.

Q: What does the future hold for Madman?

A: Madman will eventually conclude. I've always intended for his story to end as all GOOD stories MUST. I was originally intending the story to go for 10 to 15 48 page issues, something like the TIN TIN library. For awhile I reset my goals for 100 comics ala Kirby's work on FANTASTIC FOUR. Realistically, I'm thinking Frank Einstein's story will end at about MADMAN COMICS no. 30. I have more stories to tell and I want to start telling them.

Q: So will Madman be gone forever at the conclusion of number 30? I've noticed that many creators are trying long-running series such as this. Aside from Sim's Cerebus, we have Jeff Smith's Bone (I believe he said it would end around 50 or 60); Bissette's Tyrant (about 30, I think); Martin Wagner's Hepcats (100), etc. This is in stark contrast to the way comics have been created for the last several decades: create characters which are corporate-owned and then stick them in never-ending serial stories in which they remain static for as long as people are buying the book. What do you think of this? Is this a new revolution in the way comics are being created, and do you think a company like Marvel will ever come around and see the light? (DC allowing Gaiman to end Sandman was an unprecedented action for a major publisher when you think about it.)

A: When MADMAN'S story has been told it'll be told. If, on the other hand, I feel there's more to tell that's up to me, isn't it? That's the beauty of creator ownership. This is the way it should be. I think there's so much common sense involved it'll be hard for the large companies, if you can call them that anymore, to ignore. If not creator-ownership, then at least creator-control (as in the case of Neil's Sandman) will have to be a given if any company expects top talent to work WITH them (notice I said WITH not FOR). A story should be as long as the STORYTELLER feels it needs to be.

Q: What do you think the cause was of the recent industry recession, and how do we make sure we don't repeat history?

A: The cause for the recession is complicated by several events, but I'll give my simple humble opinion. 1. Hype that's impossible to live up to. 2. A decline in the craftsmanship of CONSISTENT characters included in quality stories. 3. Pushing comics as collectibles instead of the entertainment that they are. 4. Ignoring the female audience. 5. Giving true fans of comics who actually read them little reason to keep coming back.

Q: Did the recession affect Madman? If so, how? If not, why do you think your book wasn't affected?

A: EVERYONE was affected by the recession! Fortunately, most of the folks who read my work READ my work. We haven't lost readers from the defection of speculators. Our timing was good too...I got involved in other projects during the worst part of our recession which I hope will bring new people back. I've always felt fans of film and music, if properly introduced, would be equally enthusiastic about comics. That's what happened to me. The RED ROCKET 7 project is a multi-media project which will attempt to be that ambitious.

Q: Tell me more about this project. What is it, who's producing it, and when will it come out?

A: We're planning for the first issue of RED ROCKET 7 (the first of seven monthly issues) to be released in June '97. [That date] gives me time to finish the series so it will come out in one sweeping wave.

DARK HORSE said they wanted to produce it on the strength of two or three sentences in a conversation. That's why this particular LEGEND book will come out from DARK HORSE. With that kind of faith and enthusiasm for my work you might understand why I'm so pleased with my relationship with Mike Richardson and Dark Horse.

I'll give you the slightly longer explanation of the project. RED ROCKET 7 is the name of my band, which is named after a character associated with my film ASTROESQUE. We'll be releasing a concept album inspired by the RED ROCKET 7 comic series along with the film on video around the same time as the comics. A true multi-media creation. Film-music-comics. This alone might explain why I'm so stoked about this project. But what I'm most excited about is the RED ROCKET 7 story told in the seven issue series which will join the American artform of comics with its stepchild, rock n roll. Out of fear of imitators I think I'll leave it at that for now. I will tell you it's SCI-FI adventure based on factual events.

Q: Do you see any major issues which the comic book industry needs to address as we reach the turn of the century? If so, what are they?

A: Few. Frank is fighting the anticensorship fight which I feel needs to be fought. But as a father, I'm not in total agreement with some of his arguments. I believe as long as the artist is allowed his or her art, all conceivable issues will be addressed. My only concern is work not appropriate for children, especially MY children, slipping by me. I'm a HUGE fan of alternative entertainment, but I have to use my best judgment as to what my kids are mature enough to bring into their brains.

I have a great example: BIG BLOWN BABY is a wild, crazy, energetic comic with amazing craftsmanship in the cartooning and on the surface it looks like a REN & STIMPY cartoon, which creator Bill Wray worked on. HUNDREDS of comics come through our house every month and with the time I have I try to determine which our appropriate for the kids. BIG BLOWN is not one of them. It nearly slipped by me. In this case I, selfishly, wanted to read it first since I'm a big SPUMCO fan and it has that look. Bill even did a great piece with B.B.B for the second MADMAN card set. The point is, under other circumstances my kids would have seen it first since ON THE SURFACE it looks like good ol' gross fun. It's NOT for kids and there's very little to alert an adult to that. Let alone a store clerk who would sell it (to be fair, there IS a tiny warning on the cover which did little to alert me to its contents. A label isn't the answer. On this I agree with Frank). If EIGHTBALL existed when I was six I would have dove on that book like a hungry dog simply because of the amazing cartooning, but would my mind have been ready for it? Yes, I'm a genius. But other kids wouldn't. Artists should never be stopped from what they want to create, but there's a fine line when it comes to who their creations are exposed to. A very fine line. Jeez, I honestly didn't expect to go off on that. It's this simple...I love my kids and don't want their minds destroyed until I'm finished destroying them myself.

Q: What previously-untapped themes would you like to investigate through Madman? Do you see him as a vehicle for expressing certain ideas and beliefs?

A: You'll have to wait and see. They'll ALL be tapped.

Q: If you had to sum up Madman in a TV Guide-style capsule review for a non- comics reader, what would you say?

A: The story of a confused young man who must do the boogaloo at all costs.

Q: What did you think about Marvel's Heroes Reborn storylines? I heard that a Marvel secretary said that the company wants to regain its previous success - which they define as when Liefeld and Lee were there. Do you think any creator has the ability to single-handedly bring a company out of its doldrums, or are the problems deeper than that?

BLECHHH!!! HHHAUAAAAKKK!!! It's very simple...comics should stop feeding off creations that were originally popular sixty, thirty years ago! Captain America?! PuhlEEEZE! He was a World War Two hero for crying out loud. Comics can't be topical and have characters stay the same age decade after decade. I thrill to the thawing out of Cap in AVENGERS no.4 ...but come on! It's gone too far. Artists and writers have been creating original works for THOUSANDS of years. Why was it decided that comics must constantly recycle the same creations for time eternal?! The revamping attempts get more ridiculous each time a corporate nimrod raises its greedy hand. They all had their time and place. Jim Lee is doing himself a disservice. He has created phenomenally successful comics of his own. OF HIS OWN!! That's the future! If our industry is to survive it MUST be allowed to grow and change. Your question supports ever other answer I've given so far in this interview! FANTASTIC FOUR should have ended when Jack Kirby left the book or at least when Stan Lee stopped writing it. I don't care how many great stories were told later by John Byrne or whoever. Those stories could have - SHOULD have - been told with different characters. NEW characters. Batman as much as I love him is not the be all and end all of comics. Superman is the only character that makes any sense as an eternal character. But in the wrong hands he's PAINFULLY BORING! Superman also supports my argument for creator control. If creators of today can't learn from the example of the fate of Superman's creators then...then...WHY ISN’T SUPERMAN STILL DEAD?! Why kill him in the first place?! Answer those questions and you'll answer a lot of questions about what's wrong with our industry and why the recession [happened]. STUPIDITY meets THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

By the way, did I mention that I love everyone dearly? Let me make this last point on this subject. Sherlock Holmes is a great character, right? Please let's not bring him from the dead so he can investigate who REALLY killed JFK. Wait a second...What a great idea!

Q: I've gotten the sense in this industry that many fans will buy a book because of the name on it - witness Image's initial flush of success, or the fact that Gaiman always sells well - whereas once upon a time characters were more important. Do you agree or disagree with that statement, and why?

A: Yes, the reputation and value of a creator's name should eclipse any character. This discourages corporate control and ownership. It also encourages quality or at least consistency. I would rather get a terrific comic from a creator once or twice a year than watch an assembly line sweat out a rushed monthly PRODUCT. Frank Miller's SIN CITY, Mike Mignola's Hellboy...You get what I'm saying. It should always have been Jack Kirby's NEW GODS in every way.

Q: Who's bigger - Madman or Mike Allred? Do you want to be synonymous with your creation, or do you have future plans for more characters?

A: Arguable. I'm about an inch larger than MADMAN I think. Clearly I would prefer to be more than just the "MADMAN GUY," but if that's my fate then at least I'll always be appreciative of at least that success which is already more than I had hoped for. I've managed to parlay this into other things I've always wanted to do, [such as] films, music, [and] meeting and collaborating with people I respect. MADMAN has provided us with the beautiful house we live in. I refuse to be coy or nonchalant about the wonderful things MADMAN has made possible. I could stand back and whine about how successful it's not.

It's unlikely to reach TURTLES proportion or even SPAWN levels of success. Success is relative. I have an amazing wife and three terrific kids. As long as I've got them, health and security I shouldn't complain, although I just might. If RED ROCKET 7, ASTROESQUE, the MADMAN movie and other projects, characters and creations never take off, I'll be disappointed but will be thrilled and satisfied at having done them if I did my best. THAT'S what's satisfying. If I don't do my best work it will always eat at me. There are comics (and other things I've done) that I feel I didn't give my all to and it stings a little. Even if they're popular. I've found that being popular isn't the goal. It's empty if you don't believe in what you're doing. Among my contemporaries, I think Frank Miller has the integrity, reputation and body of work that I aspire to. His work speaks for itself whatever the character or project may be. Harvey Kurtzman, Alex Toth...These are the names that speak louder than any single piece of work.

Q: If you could travel through time and pick any period of history in which to publish Madman, what period would you pick and why? Have comics readers' attitudes changed over the years?

A: Now is the time. No contest. As crummy as certain conditions may be, they've never been more rewarding for the creator. That's why it's so frustrating when someone like John Byrne chooses to play with other people's toys instead of making his own. Comic readers are better as well in the respect that they are more educated as to the potential of this artform. My complaint or disappointment is that they seem to be in the minority, especially since comic book readership seems to be at an all-time low. The ideal situation would be if we still had the vast numbers of readers like comics had in the forties and early fifties, when virtually EVERYONE read comics, coupled with the diversity of material present today. I don't know if we'll ever beat down the taboos and prejudices comics suffer from. But I remain hopeful.