The Park and Kurt Show

ParkCooper: Have you noticed Marvel's new Bill of Rights for readers?
KurtEvans: Nope.
ParkCooper: Look on the bullpen page of last month's Marvel comics... try Avengers.
ParkCooper: They are saying things like that they care about the readers etc... that was what made them great intitially in the Stan Lee days
KurtEvans: Marvel is making some good moves (I hear Claremont is the new big Editor).
KurtEvans: But the industry is hurting in a big way.
ParkCooper: Oh, industry, shemendustry. Indie comics seem very safe. It's the larger corporations that we worry about.
KurtEvans: Indie comics are hurting.
KurtEvans: Everything is hurting. Comics are lucky to sell 40,000 nowadays, when five years ago, they were selling in the hundred thousands.
ParkCooper: FIVE years ago?
ParkCooper: Prove it.
ParkCooper: I challenge that the change has happened in that short a time. Back yerself up hombre
KurtEvans: Five years ago=Spawn #1
ParkCooper: One issue. example #2?
KurtEvans: Spawn #1=HUGE sales. More or less, also, X-Men (which was more like six or seven years ago, granted) sold close to a million.
KurtEvans: Superman #75 sold well over a million.
ParkCooper: I was expecting Superman.
ParkCooper: That's what started this mess, partially.
KurtEvans: Yep.
KurtEvans: Don't forget X-Force, Youngblood, Image in general...
ParkCooper: But Kurt the general QUALITY of Superman and X-Men has gone down... and people just needed time to learn that Image was all image... Spawn falls inbetween the spectrum.
ParkCooper: I'm including X-Force as Image you understand.
ParkCooper: Of course poorly done comics are selling poorly.
KurtEvans: You know why the quality has gone down?
KurtEvans: Because Superman is no longer story driven...it's event driven.
KurtEvans: Same thing with X-Men.
ParkCooper: Name an example of a high-selling comic 5 years ago that is good quality now and then let's see how it's doing... if you can think of one.
ParkCooper: I suppose there's Cerebus... _if_ you count it as ever selling that well.
KurtEvans: Most good quality comics are mid-range. Event-driven titles are in the top (that includes JLA).
KurtEvans: Incredible Hulk.
KurtEvans: Which may be subject to change in a few months.
ParkCooper: JLA should only be included because the title itself is still an event unto itself
KurtEvans: I'd still love to see a new Showcase series.
ParkCooper: okay... Heroes-Thrown-Down-the-Drain messes up the results a bit, but let's try it anyway... how's Hulk's sales today?
KurtEvans: Mid range. I'd estimate it's in the 30's of best sellers. But it's probably selling between 20 and 30 thousand.
ParkCooper: 20-30 thou today, and 5 years ago?
KurtEvans: Probably 50-90...maybe more, doubtful less. And five years ago, it was still in the mid 30's.
KurtEvans: Give or take.
ParkCooper: Well that's not such a bad drop, seems to me. Got another example case?
KurtEvans: Comic sales in general have dropped...but since ALL comic sales have dropped, it's not noticible.
KurtEvans: Remember...the top seller currently probably doesn't sell more than 40,000. 50,000, maybe. Maybe.
KurtEvans: DC and Marvel are losing money. Small press companies are going out totally.
ParkCooper: Name 2 or 3 small press companies going out
KurtEvans: Awesome, Valiant, and I think Kitchen Sink is gone.
ParkCooper: Kitchen Sink's legal problems sunk it, i think...
KurtEvans: Valentino had to end his line of black and white comics recently.
ParkCooper: I still say quality writing, well marketed, is not in danger of disappearing.
ParkCooper: Aren't comics like 50 cents more than five years ago, though, in general?
ParkCooper: Or do you write that off to inflation alone?
KurtEvans: Five years ago, ten years ago, Awesome and Valiant would never have gone out of business.
KurtEvans: They would have thrived.
ParkCooper: I didn't even know what Awesome did.
KurtEvans: Rob Liefeld's Awesome, which actually had some heralded writing (Alan Moore's Supreme) is going under.
KurtEvans: It's never a good sign to see companies go under.
ParkCooper: quality, boy, creativity. I have faith in the BASIC ECONOMIC FACTS of the situation, which is as follows...I and others like me want to BUY comics. Everyone I know on or off the net wants to MAKE comics.
KurtEvans: I still can't believe Valiant is gone.
KurtEvans: Supreme was quality.
KurtEvans: Not that I read it.
ParkCooper: Supreme and the Robiverse seem to be printing up a storm lately as far as I can tell... you saying the demand isn't there?
KurtEvans: It's gone. Rob fired everyone working for Awesome.
KurtEvans: They ran out of funding.
ParkCooper: Funding?
KurtEvans: So Rob is probably going to turn to Marvel or DC for work. Sad.
KurtEvans: Yep. Funding.
KurtEvans: "As of 5:00 PM yesterday (Thursday, March 26), Awesome Entertainment went out of business. The financier pulled a Houdini and pulled out all his backing with little explanation.”
ParkCooper: Yeah, sad in that I can hardly imagine either of them taking him...
ParkCooper: Although Rob and that guy currently drawing Hellblazer would just about tie.
ParkCooper: Especially DC...
KurtEvans: Sad that one of them probably will.
KurtEvans: I think DC should cut down on Superman titles. Cut them back to two.
ParkCooper: How can you deny my econimic reality principles of supply and demand
KurtEvans: There is no demand anymore.
ParkCooper: Maybe minicomics will be the new wave.
ParkCooper: You don't think all those Supreme fans will try new titles to spend that extra money on and so forth?
ParkCooper: You think they'll just kinda stop?
KurtEvans: They might follow Alan Moore, but the solution isn't to redirect fans interest, it's to get more fans interrested all together.
ParkCooper: Why NOT to redirect? As long as we don't lose any, and keep making new ones fast enough, of course.
ParkCooper: Fast enough being a highly debatable detail.
KurtEvans: Who's to say? I bet you there will be a few thousand fans who stop collecting comics when Moore ends his run on Supreme.
KurtEvans: But the point is, we don't need to worry about losing them, but we DO need to worry about getting more.
ParkCooper: I would be surprised... how are Supreme's sales lately?
ParkCooper: ...since you seem to know these things...
KurtEvans: I couldn't tell you. I couldn't even guess. All I know is that I've heard nothing but good things about it (except for the people saying that Supreme is just a ripped off Silver-Age Superman).
ParkCooper: We all knew that, though
ParkCooper: Silver Age DC is one of Alan's specialites, so that's a good thing really. Except for DC.
KurtEvans: Yeah. If Alan Moore went back to DC...
KurtEvans: And the only way that he will is if they stop using the Mature Readers label...
KurtEvans: Then maybe sales will go up on some titles he does.
ParkCooper: He never, ever will. Not this millenium anyway. Ask me again if I think he will in 2001.
KurtEvans: I think we'll both know the answer then, too.
ParkCooper: Maybe they should just get rid of vertigo and age-rate all their comics...Books of Magic is more for 16 year olds anyway...
KurtEvans: One thing that's been hurting is that Liefeld has been sucking up all the hot artists into Awesome.
ParkCooper: Well that'll stop, won't it.
KurtEvans: If they went over to say, DC...then maybe sales will go up.
ParkCooper: They'll go somewhere.
KurtEvans: I think that comics should revert back to a kids thing. Archie comics sell in the hundreds of thousands.
KurtEvans: Make comics more kid oriented, and sales probably double.
ParkCooper: They do?
KurtEvans: Yep.
ParkCooper: Archie comics outsells JLA?
KurtEvans: By far.
ParkCooper: well whattayaknow.
ParkCooper: That gives me hope right there.
KurtEvans: One idea I had was to make DC Comics Silver Age for six months just to see how things go...
KurtEvans: But they'd never do that.
ParkCooper: It would work though.... but make it 3 or 4 months. Anything can get old.
KurtEvans: (of course, the second part would be to make all DC titles extreme for a second six months, but that would be bad)
ParkCooper: Extreme?
KurtEvans: Yeah. All mature readers only. Like Vertigo, except with Superman. But I don't like that idea anyways.
KurtEvans: Y'know...they could have Lois Lane running around naked...Superman accidentally killing Lex Luthor...the good stuff.
ParkCooper: We did that once... it was known as the post-Frank Miller/Watchmen era. Everyone copied the surface but not the thought behind it. Ruined comics.
ParkCooper: No one wants THAT again.
ParkCooper: Not even you.
KurtEvans: It helped ruin comics, anyways. There was more than one factor.
KurtEvans: I'd rather read Superman aimed at 4 year olds than Superman aimed at 24 year olds.
KurtEvans: They should make it like Animaniacs. Aimed at kids, but full of jokes for adults, too.
ParkCooper: I don't mean it was the ONLY thing that ruined comics. Gimmicky covers didn't help either. Nor did the glut of #1 issues, but it helped a lot.
KurtEvans: #1 issues...gah. That's why I hate Fantastic Four, Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, and the upcoming Thor.
KurtEvans: I liked 'em a lot more when they had the high issue count.
ParkCooper: Yeah... the #1 glut never ended, just slowed down. At least gimmicky covers dried up to a trickle.
KurtEvans: Then there was the "bad girls" phase...
KurtEvans: So my question is...what's the current phase?
KurtEvans: Park...get this.
ParkCooper: uh... is the bad girls phase over?
ParkCooper: Darkchild, etc etc?
KurtEvans: Top Cow will be making some comics that not only have various covers, but various backup stories. So if you want to buy say, #1 of Fonebone Man, you'll have to buy four varients to get all the backup stories.
KurtEvans: Except the problem is, they're selling them in a 2:1:1 format, which means that in order to get them all, you need to order 4, which means you have one extra that no one wants.
ParkCooper: I guess you don't see those Avengeline-types like you used to.
ParkCooper: Anyway, what do you think of DC's upcoming female-issues?
ParkCooper: Like New Years Evil was, but with girls... girl week...Girlfrenzy.
ParkCooper: So why is only one of them going to be written by a girl?
KurtEvans: Testosterone?
ParkCooper: The best girls are not working for the big companies. Though lots of them wouldn't mind, I'm sure.
KurtEvans: At least the creative teams on Superman will be changing soon.
KurtEvans: And Batman is looking at a shake up, too.
ParkCooper: I'm speaking of writers only not artists... or management.
KurtEvans: If only Waid and Busiek could type faster...
ParkCooper: Waid type faster? you're gonna kill the guy...he’s only human.
ParkCooper: Alisa Kwitney does have good days... and I'm looking forward to seeing Devin's Titans... I think it's much more the right vehicle for her.
KurtEvans: Titans sounds like it'll be cool.
KurtEvans: Jurgens was stupid to try to start 'em over from scratch.
ParkCooper: But the only female writers for Marvel are Weezie Simonson and Ann Nocenti.
KurtEvans: I didn't even know that Weezie is doing Marvel stuff anymore.
KurtEvans: I thought she was (until the shakeup, anyways) exclusively Superman.
ParkCooper: My point exactly.
KurtEvans: Waid's fast...but hell, he only does like five or six titles, right?
KurtEvans: And he has help on most of them.
ParkCooper: Waid's not as prolific as Chuck.
ParkCooper: Chuck's the writing machine.
ParkCooper: And he's consistent, you gotta say that.
KurtEvans: Yes he is. Tho’ you dropped Robin.
KurtEvans: If I were in comics, I would try to do ten titles a month.
ParkCooper: You would DIE Kurt.
ParkCooper: Even I wouldn't try 10...
KurtEvans: I wouldn't die. I would be living in a dream.
ParkCooper: I dropped Robin?
KurtEvans: I thought you did.
ParkCooper: I bought the last 3 or 4 issues...
ParkCooper: I didn't say _I_ was consistent...
KurtEvans: Imagine it. Kurt Evans...handling all the Superman titles. Or all the Batman titles. or all the JLA and JLA related titles.
KurtEvans: ...or all the Marvel mainstay titles like Amazing Spiderman, Avengers, Daredevil, etc.
ParkCooper: Oh please...
ParkCooper: But I'm saying Chuck does 9 titles or however many and never burns out.
KurtEvans: He's a man.
ParkCooper: Even I couldn't do 4, Kurt.
KurtEvans: I couldn't do it now, I know that.
ParkCooper: Oh, this is when you're 60?
KurtEvans: But give me a few years, and I could do 10 titles. Hell, I'd even draw two or three.
ParkCooper: Will they still have comics in a few years, Uatu?
KurtEvans: When you only sleep three hours a night, you'd be surprised at how much you could produce.
ParkCooper: Or will they die because you can only watch, pledged not to interfere...
KurtEvans: Never said they wouldn't...but the small press industry is dying out. And DC and Marvel are losing money.
ParkCooper: So what the heck do you see happening, Doom Boy?
KurtEvans: Things getting worse until they get better.
KurtEvans: Remember...things work in a cycle. Every few years, comics start to hurt. Then they'll do well again.
ParkCooper: Then stop complaining.
KurtEvans: I will complain until comic companies start to make money.
KurtEvans: In the mid 80's, back and white comics were popular. Then they weren't. Now they're getting popular again.
ParkCooper: When the great wheel comes back around, I'll still be here. Will you?
KurtEvans: Of course. I'll probably be spending more on comics than I am now.
ParkCooper: Why do you care if the industry recesses?
ParkCooper: YOU'RE not in the industry...
KurtEvans: Did you know that by the standards of inflation, comics cost less now then they did in the 30's? If we dropped inflation, comics would cost under a nickle.
KurtEvans: No, but the comics I read are.
KurtEvans: I would hate to see Hepcats die out because of bad sales.
ParkCooper: Oh Hepcats. Pardon me while I do not keen an Irish wail.
KurtEvans: I would hate to see DC cancel titles I read because no one is buying them, tho’ they rightfully should be.
KurtEvans: I would hate to see Marvel go bankrupt...oh...wait... too late.
ParkCooper: Well if they rightfully should be, what's wrong with you?
ParkCooper: That's right, they went bankrupt and here they are, a little wiser.
KurtEvans: Did you read Aztek?
ParkCooper: No, did not read Aztek.
KurtEvans: Aztek was a good comic. It got cancelled.
ParkCooper: Oh, Grant will live.
KurtEvans: You liked Nightforce, right?
KurtEvans: A good comic, wasn't it? Got cancelled, didn't it?
KurtEvans: Why? Because no one read it. Why? Because fewer and fewer people are reading comics now. Yes, the industry has been in recession before. But never this bad.
ParkCooper: I thought Nightforce had promise, but it wasn't worth 2.50, probably not 2.00... I have issues from the quarter and 75 cent boxes.
ParkCooper: Never this bad? ...how about between the gold and silver ages?
KurtEvans: You know about how X-Men got cancelled originally, after issue 60 something, and then went into reprints?
ParkCooper: Yes I know all about the X-Men.
KurtEvans: X-Men was selling over 100,000 comics a month when it was cancelled.
KurtEvans: Today, X-Men is selling half that much.
ParkCooper: I just don't feel sad about that.
KurtEvans: Those were low numbers back then.
KurtEvans: On the bright side, due to a small print run, we can expect all our comics to be worth a lot one day...
ParkCooper: Comics will survive, Kurt. What bothers me is cancelling things that are not the same old thing. Awesome was just a bunch of superhero comics.
ParkCooper: So are the X-titles
ParkCooper: EXCEPT the X-Men underground special.
KurtEvans: The fact that any comic book company is in danger of getting closed down is a bad sign for the industry. Valiant is gone? Did you see their lineup?
KurtEvans: They had Waid, Busiek, Priest, and a wide assortment of others working on their stuff. And they get cancelled.
ParkCooper: X-O Man of War, Magnus Robot Fighter. Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom.
ParkCooper: They brought in the pros too late.
KurtEvans: X-O was written by Waid.
ParkCooper: First I heard of it. maybe we should blame poor marketing for this one?
KurtEvans: They had a decent lineup. And they've all gotten canned.
KurtEvans: Yeah...because Wizard, that which makes or breaks comics nowadays, didn't give them any publicity.
KurtEvans: The only Valiant title Wizard ever talked about was Quantum and Woody.
ParkCooper: I had issues of Magnus Robot Fighter and Doctor Solar when I was a kid. Whitman, i think it was...
ParkCooper: Quantum and Woody was Valiant? I didn't know that
KurtEvans: Wizard is another reason why comics are in trouble.
KurtEvans: (sure, sure, I subscribe to Wizard, but still...I recognize it's evil)
ParkCooper: Yeah Wizard. #1s, gimmicky covers, event-driven comics, blood and guns... it all leads back to Wizard.
KurtEvans: Yep.
ParkCooper: Since I don't ever read or buy Wizard I forget sometimes where the root of all evil lies. Thanks for reminding me
KurtEvans: Wizard made Image. If Wizard never talked about Image, they wouldn't have done jack.
ParkCooper: Yeah.
ParkCooper: So how are WIZARD's sales?
KurtEvans: God knows.
KurtEvans: Wizard made comics too event driven.
ParkCooper: Well, that's it. We've found the cause of the problems with comics. We're done.
KurtEvans: What with their chronium cards and half issues and all that. Articles about the next big change, instead of the comic that's remained constant...

ParkCooper: Time to call it a day... AOL-wise, anyway
KurtEvans: Sarcasm gets you no where.
KurtEvans: Except maybe a kidney shot.
ParkCooper: What sarcasm?
ParkCooper: I have got stuff to do
ParkCooper: No one has kidneys on AOL.
KurtEvans: Not yet. Wait until you see version 4.5
KurtEvans: I'm going to turn in, too...tho I won't sleep. Cubs game tomorrow...I'm going to need to get up early.
ParkCooper: Remember, if Batman and Superman are Cheers, then Starman is Frasier... and Hitman is Norm.

Article by Kurtis Evans & Park Cooper

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