Currently nominated for Outstanding Lead Actor and Actress in the 1996-97 Daytime Emmy race, Tony Geary and Genie Francis -- General Hospital's legendary Luke and Laura -- have been enjoying a career renaissance that few (including themselves) could have predicted. They rarely do interviews (and almost never in tandem), so I jumped at the chance to sit down with them in Geary's dressing room during a GH lunch break.
Watching the two of you work is thrilling, especially during the [former head writer Bob] Guza regime when the Cassadine story was really kicking butt. You've always been brilliant but never more so than now. Are you impressed with you?
Genie Francis: What you say is nice to hear. [Ponders the question.] Hmmm... I don't watch the show because I like doing it more than watching it. Honestly. And I have a life. When I'm done with my day's work, I go home and take care of a child and a home and, hopefully, spend time with the husband. I'm very hard on myself, so I don't like to watch myself. I like to do it.
I can't believe this! What is it you so dislike?
GF: I always think I could have done a better job. I never think I did a good enough job. But that's what keeps me going; that's what keeps me coming back here every day. I want to do a better job.
Tony Geary: My experience with this lady is that she's happiest -- and feels most fulfilled -- when she has an opportunity to unzip her little heart and bleed all over the place. I just don't know anyone else who does it better. Or anyone who looks for that emotional release more than she does. Literally every day she wants to give you a big ol' chunk o' heart. When we have to struggle to do that on the show is when we have our most trouble. When the material or the situation doesn't allow Genie the full expression of what there is to offer -- when the audience doesn't get as much as she wants to give -- she's not happy. She just wants to bleed for ya.
And that's the epitome of what we want with our soap programming. We don't want couples on the run -- no offense, you guys; I know you started it all -- what we want is heart. We want to feel and suffer and cry and laugh with you. We don't need y'all going on location and doing spy things.
GF: Right! It's all about people and sharing innermost feelings. I love that -- sharing your deepest, darkest secrets through the material.
Yet, interestingly, you're both very private and don't share much in interviews.
GF: That's why we only talk to you.
Yeah, right.
GF: [Laughing.] It's true!
But there are actors who love to do what you do on camera -- lay themselves bare emotionally -- but they also love to spill their guts in print. They'll tell a reporter things that most people wouldn't tell their shrink. What's that difference all about? You both give so much on camera, yet so little off.
GF: Because we went through such a blitzkrieg of it. [Looks at Tony.] Right?
TG: Right.
GF: That whole Luke and Laura phenomenon was overwhelming and scary and -- speaking for myself -- I don't think I ever want to go through that again. It was really hard. I think there's also something to be said for the predictability of the press: They build us up to tear us down. We've been around a long time. Actually, I've been through a few build-ups and tear-downs, and it's difficult. I'm tired of it, you know? I like when I can talk to somebody and they tell the truth about me. What I say to you is what you actually write and that's great. That's why we talk to you.
Well, thanks.
GF: But sometimes people have their own agenda about what they want to say about you -- and it doesn't really matter what I say or who I am.
TG: I agree. I also think for me that the more the audience knows about me, the more trouble I have selling Luke. I would rather they be pleased with him than pleased with me. The more people know about you personally, the harder it is to be an open slate to them. So my reserve is not only shyness with the press and everything Genie mentioned -- having myself been raked over the coals, built up and spit out -- but it's also career preservation. I think the less known about me, the more room, the more freedom I have to create.
It's kind of the way the stars of old Hollywood were -- they knew the value of mystique. And to this day, we're still fascinated by the recluses, the ones -- like Katharine Hepburn -- who didn't tell all. For that reason we will always be interested in Tony Geary and Genie Francis. Why don't more of today's actors see the value in that?
TG: You get everything when we work, you'll get everything we have to give, but you're not gonna get everything from me when I'm not in front of that camera or on that stage. That's not why I'm in this business. I don't know why other people are such open books. Maybe it's the joy of having their own ego and their character's ego all mixed up. I did that for a while, 20 years ago, 15 years ago. It's murder. Now I'm real clear about keeping me and Luke Spencer separated.
It seems like somebody's rerunning the Luke and Laura wedding every 10 minutes. How do you two feel when you look at that footage now?
GF: I feel that it's not my best work. [Laughing.] The damn thing haunts me! It goes everywhere I go. Every talk show I'm on, it goes on right before me. And I just feel like it's not an example at all of my best work. It's an example of a big ratings event, but I wince a little when I see it [laughing, arms folded around her very pregnant middle]. I don't think I did a good job.
And you?
TG: Oh, I just remember how hot it was and how I hate my hair.
GF: It's crazy and a little creepy to have one moment follow you for 15 years.
Would you agree that the Luke and Laura phenomenon -- coupled with the explosion of GH's popularity -- is something that could never happen on daytime again?
GF: Oh, no. I certainly hope it could happen again. I do think it could.
Really? It seemed like a once-in-a-lifetime thing to me. Simultaneous with your enormous popularity was the "coming out of the closet" of soaps themselves. Suddenly, daytime drama -- but most especially GH -- was the hip thing to watch.
TG: One of the things that was so spectacular about that time was the innovation. Soaps were breaking new ground -- and there's always new ground to be broken.
GF: Somebody had a clear-cut vision. They broke the mold, and that's why people watched. There was this huge, nationwide feeling of "Wait a minute, we didn't expect this from soaps!" When a phenomenon like that happens, it's not because any one person was fabulous -- it's that all the right people came together at the right time and magic happens. That's what I believe.
TG: So, sure, it can happen again -- but it has to do with newer ground. The answer is not trying to imitate nighttime and going on locations. It has to do with people.
GF: I get frustrated because I don't want to do a poor copy of myself. I don't want to redo my old Laura. I want to continue to evolve.
Which you've both been able to do so well since Luke and Laura became parents. The sense of family you've achieved on this show -- with Jonathan Jackson and the little Lesley Lu twins -- is incredible. It's so rich, so heartfelt, so real -- especially your maternal instincts, Genie. Could you have done this without having children in real life?
GF: I think it was playing out the mother role here on this show -- with Lucky -- that enabled me to do it in my real life.
Really?
GF: Oh, yes! I really think it was letting that into my heart and my soul and seeing how much I loved it that made me decide that I can do this [patting her belly] in real life and that I need to do this. I learn from this show: In my life, I've always done everything on the show first. It's been a dress rehearsal for my life.
Yes, but you take the motherly love so much further and deeper than any actress I can think of. When the Nikolas story was really starting to kick in, you'd look at that kid as if you were the ultimate earth mother. The way you played those scenes was so "right down to your DNA" primal! Other TV moms don't achieve that. Tony, you know what I'm talking about.
TG: Yeah [he grins]. I do know.
GF: Thank you so much. This is the flip side of Laura. She began as a child who'd been bounced from home to home in search of a mother. I came onto this show with a deep longing for a mother -- that was the heart and soul of Laura at age 14. So the mother-child connection is a very important element in her life, and I like that.
TG: The roots of these characters are so deep and solid and understood by us. They were created by both Doug Marland and Gloria Monty, who really cared. They built an extraordinary foundation. I could play Luke till I drop dead -- and probably will -- and there will still be things to play based on that foundation, those roots. And that's really lovely. I see that in Genie every time we do scenes about motherhood -- where Laura comes from is always present in Luke's mind.
GF: Luke and Laura both really come from the same place -- they're both orphans. That's an unbreakable bond.
TG: We were our first family together.
Stop, I'm getting weepy here. Now you, Tony, have not had children, yet you also beautifully relate to the dad stuff. By the way, are you two aware there's a rumor on the Internet that Jonathan Frakes is not the real father of Genie's children -- that the father is actually Tony?
GF: Oh, really?
TG: Oh, really?
GF: [Laughs.] That's great! [She reaches over and pats Tony on the leg.] Well, thank you, honey!
TG: [Laughs.] Listen, I should be so lucky to be the father of her children -- Jameson is so beautiful. You know, so much of that sense of family that we have on this show has to do with Jonathan Jackson. He has absorbed us. I couldn't imagine anybody being more our kid -- everything about him! I think Luke wants to be a good parent, a good dad -- maybe he is and maybe he isn't -- but this [pointing to Genie] is the real parent in the house. I look to Genie and Luke looks to Laura to lead the way in terms of parenting. As long as we're not conventional parents, I'm OK with that. I don't think Luke expected to be a dad. So if I ever became a dad, I would probably be similarly permissive, open and a little too dangerous. But who knows -- with a girl -- Luke might go the other direction.
Yeah, especially if she grows up and starts dating a Cassadine.
TG: Yeah, right.
GF: [Laughs hysterically at the story prospects.]
TG: I treat Jonathan -- and Luke treats Lucky -- more like a peer than a child. It's always dangerous when parents do that with their kids, but I figure that the balance is here [he gestures to Genie]. And somebody might get hip to that somewhere along the line and write us a nice story that incorporates those differences between us.
Talk to me about the hardest period for the two of you.
GF: It was really hard to make that return in '93. That reentry was terrifying for both of us. There was all this weight on our backs. "Can they do it again?" "Will anyone care?" And we were both wondering, "Will we be snickered at?" For me, that was one of the hardest times. That's why we cling to each other. We're each other's reality check. We've always kind of clung to each other through this process because we have the same history together. Everybody else is new to us here, but we know who we were. [Laughs.] We know who we are. We're very bonded to each other as actors, don't you think?
TG: Absolutely.
GF: [Smiles contentedly.] We're a team.
TG: I saw a scene on the air the other day that really upset me -- the one where I called Nikolas a "little bastard." And you said to me when we were taping, "I don't think you should do that. I think that's a bad choice." And I hung with it. I said, "No, this is how I feel about him." And I saw it the other day, and you were right. I was wrong. It was just one step too far.
Was that in the script or was it improvised?
TG: No, I threw it in. I'll take the heat for that one.
Are there ever severe tensions between you?
TG: We don't really have tensions. We're both emotional people and we go up and down. But if I can make her laugh or she can come over, put her arm around me and say, "I know, honey," we're fine. Don't you think?
GF: Totally. Totally. People always ask me about our private relationship, because this has been such an epic love story. But I don't like to put it into words because I think it somehow diminishes it. There's a very profound and real love between us, and that's about all I can say. You try to explain it to people and you end up doing it a disservice.
Yet you chose not to see each other after the Luke and Laura fuss of the early '80s.
GF: Because of the pressure of that whole thing, we didn't see each other for a few years -- just because we both needed to forget about it, we both needed to [decompress]. Now it's something that brings us together.
TG: We're adults now. I mean, Genie really was a child when she joined this show, but I put myself in that category back then, too. I was a lot older than her, but we both grew up real fast with all that attention. We both survived the same extreme success and the extreme disappointment that followed. Genie is the only other person on the planet that knows that part of me.
GF: Yes.
TG: We both know that disappointment real well.
GF: And the disillusionment. I've thought for many years to research this topic and to write a book on it, because it's such a bizarre thing to happen in a career. Truly bizarre.
And there's just a handful of you stars that it's actually happened to -- to be the absolute hottest thing in the country. How can anyone else really relate?
GF: And that's why we're so respectful of each other's boundaries. We know what it's like to have them ripped away. We get it. [She laughs.]
Genie, you gave a very cryptic acceptance speech at the Soap Digest Awards.
GF: Cryptic?
Yeah, I'd say it was cryptic. Whereas we were under the impression that you might be making your maternity leave permanent, your "thank you" seemed to indicate otherwise. You expressed such strong love for playing Laura that it seemed a message to the fans that you wouldn't be abandoning her -- and us.
GF: I never made a statement that I was leaving, so it's news to me.
Well, word has definitely gone 'round about that. In this age where everybody's comings and goings and contract negotiations are in the magazines -- and you have had a lot of comings and goings -- that impression was clearly out there.
GF: Right.
I mean, this has been very confusing. We thought you had left on maternity leave, then suddenly you're back for a month -- in your eighth month of pregnancy, no less. There have been rumors of your unhappiness with things on GH. So, you understand why we were both thrilled and mystified by your speech.
GF: Right.
Were you -- are you -- seriously considering not coming back?
GF: [Long pause, then she sighs] It's been very hard for me ever since I had my son to balance being an actress and being a mom. I can't possibly divide between Laura, Jameson and my daughter because the piece for the kids will just keep getting smaller. Kids are the most important thing in my life. I'm grateful for my work, but it will never be first for me again. Well, at least not for many years. I took an early maternity leave because I wanted to spend time with Jameson before my second one arrives. There are these precious few moments left where it's just me and my firstborn, these romantic, wonderful moments, and I didn't want to miss a day of it. I don't want to give up being an actress. I know I will always be an actress. That much I know. When I will come back to acting, after having my daughter, I can't answer that. When I had Jameson, I thought I'd take a six-week leave and I'd be right back -- but the change from a single person into motherhood is profound. You have no way of knowing who you're going to be after this happens to you -- and all of a sudden, it just wasn't important to come rushing back after six weeks. It was more important for me to be home. I feel now that if something takes me away from my children it damn well better be good. I'm not coming back just to have a job, I want to come back because there is some wonderful story written for us -- something that is worthy of my time, because my time is more valuable now.
Tony, this will affect you one way or the other -- and I realize you respect Genie's personal choice here -- but what happens to Luke? How do you keep him dramatically viable when you really don't know when -- or if -- Genie will return?
TG: I don't like to be Luke without Laura. She is his heart and his humanity. I don't want a major storyline without her.
GF: [Genuinely touched.] That's sweet, honey.
TG: I don't want another romance. I'd rather lay low in Genie's absence and protect the Spencer franchise. She's the only woman for Luke. They're not going to do any affairs -- we're not going down any of those usual roads. He can flirt with everybody -- and he does, shamelessly -- but the man is not going to violate those vows. No way. The marriage will be on hold, and I'm OK with that as long as we've got the family. She's got part of the family -- Lesley and Lesley Lu -- in one place, and I've got Lucky here, so we'll never close that door. There's plenty of stuff to do. I can always support other storylines. I'm not that concerned about it. Hopefully, Genie will do what she needs to do for her family and still want to come back.
GF: The truth is -- I'm not withholding any information here -- I truly don't know how I'm going to feel. I felt with Jameson like I wanted to stay home forever. With my daughter, I'm not going to try to second-guess. I may be saying, "Get me out of the house -- there's two of them, I'm outnumbered!" [Laughs.] I really don't know. Or I may feel that this is such a miracle that I'll want to stay home for the next four years. I'm lucky that the show has been understanding about this. As it stands, I can give them two and a half months' notice and then return, so the door is being left very open.
Wendy has strongly indicated that a return in November is possible.
GF: That's what they want. But, like I said, if something takes me out of my home and away from my kids, it better be good.
TG: And that's great for me, too. Because that gives them more impetus to come up with something.
I love it -- blackmail! So let's talk about the Emmys. What would winning this year mean to each of you?
GF: I would be absolutely shocked to win. This nomination has me in total shock -- I'd pretty much accepted that this was a party I would never be invited to. During the first go-round with Luke and Laura, Tony and I were on the cover of Newsweek together. They stopped Fifth Avenue in Manhattan to have us ride in on a coach together. But when it came time for Emmys, he was nominated and I was not.
TG: Two years in a row.
GF: It will never hurt worse than it hurt then. I dealt with that by not dealing with it. I stopped hoping for nominations. I stopped even knowing when the Emmys were on TV. So this nomination comes as a total and complete shock 20 years later. Did I finally get old enough? Did I finally pay enough dues? I don't know why I've been recognized this year, but I'm grateful.
They didn't have the younger actress category back when you were, well, a younger actress. And it would have been rather cheeky if you had cracked the Lead Actress category.
GF: Right! I'm so glad they added that younger category. They asked me if I wanted to judge on an Emmy panel -- this is when I was pregnant with Jameson -- and I said, "Yes, but there's only one panel I'm interested in -- younger actress." It means something to me that the kids get the recognition they deserve. I'm very glad it exists. I'm a little annoyed that the category gets abused sometimes. That really bothers me.
You mean the age limit of 25?
GF: Yes. If you're really 28 or 29 and putting yourself on the ballot in this area, I think you're abusing the category.
You may think this nomination comes because you've finally paid your dues, but I have to break it to you: You've blown everybody away with your performance. The fans certainly acknowledged it with the Soap Opera Digest award. The critics at all the soap magazines have been peeing in their pants over your performance. C'mon, admit it, you've been brilliant!
GF: But there were other years where I felt like I've done better work -- the year I did the incest story on All My Children, for instance. I do believe that was some of the best work I've ever done, not just on a soap opera but anywhere. It was every bit as good as what I did off-Broadway. But, hey, I'm not complaining. There's one thing worse than not being nominated for 20 years -- and that's being nominated for 17 years and not winning it. Imagine. That's the hardest.
Will you be too pregnant to fly to New York for the ceremony?
GF: I have just enough of a window of time that I might be able to make it. And I tell ya, after 20 years, man, get me a bejeweled black tent! Extra large. Draped! I want to be draped! My actual due date is June 6, but more than likely my doctor wants to try to have the baby on May 28. The awards are on the 21st, so I'm cutting this rather close. [She laughs and holds her head.]
TG: I told her she should go and try to break water on stage and put herself back on the cover of Newsweek.
GF: If I did actually win, I would probably go into labor. But I want to go. It's been 20 years of my life. I want to go. Who knows if I'll ever get nominated again. I want to go! I want to be a part of it. So do that drape, baby!
Mr. Geary, you already have one of these things. What would another Emmy mean to you?
TG: I don't know. I think the nicest thing about this is the acknowledgment of all of us together -- Genie, Jonathan, Jackie Zeman, Brad Maule, a lot of our actors. We know what we've all been through. We're all pulling for each other. That is a very nice feeling. Also, after such a big dry spell for me -- not having been nominated since, like, '83 or whatever -- this is kind of a treat. I don't think anyone, least of all Genie and me, could have predicted we'd still be playing these parts -- and be nominated -- 15 years after all the hoo-ha. I wouldn't mind doing this every 15 years.
I know you've been warned by Wendy Riche not to talk about the writing, but let's talk about it anyway! [Head writer] Richard Culliton has really thrown you some zingers -- especially the faking of Laura's death and the intimation that Stefan might be the father of Nikolas... pardon me, I must digress, why the hell don't you GH people just pick a pronunciation of Stefan and stick to it?
GF: [Laughs.] It was a big topic of debate during the first few days he was on. "Stefan!" "No, Stefan!" God. We never did decide.
Anyway, you guys have made the impossible work. Even some of Bob Guza's best storylines -- like Laura never telling Luke about Nikolas -- were a bit hard to swallow. I couldn't imagine how Laura, who has shared everything with Luke -- or so we thought -- would not have crumbled under the weight of that heavy secret. Still, you both made it play beautifully.
TG: I was just so happy to have a strong story.
GF: I was happy to have Laura return to being a real human being. I didn't like the Laura who was Mother Teresa. I respect Mother Teresa but I don't relate to her. I want to play a woman with feet of clay -- Laura always did have feet of clay. She very badly wanted to do the right thing and be honest about Nikolas, but she just couldn't. Everyone relates to that. That's humanity. We felt that this shameful secret gave Laura back her humanity, and for me, that's where the passion of the character has a chance to come through. Otherwise, you're into that trite, white-hat kind of a typical soap-opera heroine. That is antiquated. I'm not interested in that. I wanted her to have something to be ashamed of.
TG: The great characters in soaps are all flawed.
GF: I'm the one who brought up the idea of Laura having had another child -- I brought it up in '93. The producer liked it, but the writer who was writing at that time did not. And so it was abandoned. Then when we got another writer, Bob Guza, who actually knows us from back then -- he came from the early days of Luke and Laura --we brought it up again, and he loved the idea. I had wanted to do it because it would explain the one period of time that has always been left unexplained -- when Laura just walked off the pier and was gone. What happened? Where was she? What went on? For two years! Anything could have happened. I said to Guza, "She could have had a child and totally recovered and never told anyone about it." And he was able to tie that into something the audience knew about -- the Cassadines.
TG: When we first talked about coming back, there was an idea floated around the table that we would come back because Lucky was sick and that Sly, his cousin, would be the bone marrow donor. But again, the writer didn't like that. But they did take that idea and use it later with Lesley Lu. So you can put ideas in their minds -- and they might blossom later.
GF: Bob took the best of what we both wanted and put it together and made that story.