John Safran Versus Denton

OK: Lets start this by saying that the editor of this site doesn't have much time for Denton. I have heard on the grapevine that as the producer of CNNN - Chaser News Network, Denton paid himself handsomely (to the tune of $250k) while the Chaser team got screwed over on hand-to-mouth salaries of more like $35k. Now, you should never listen to gossip and innuendo.... but lets see if Denton is still producing the Chaser team next season.

In the mean time, here is the transcript.

There's a theory that the way to mainstream success in television is never to say anything that anyone will remember the next day. And if that's the yardstick, my next guest has a very limited future in television indeed. He's broadcast to a pitifully small audience, but what he's made will be remembered for years to come.

Starting with this, his audition tape for the ABC's series 'Race Around the World'.

John Safran (on audition tape): You're going to choose eight people. You'll choose four boys and four girls. You're going to choose one Asian, you're going to choose one Aboriginal, you're going to choose two white Anglo-Saxon Protestants, or else you'll get letters to 'BackChat' telling you the ABC's multiculturalism gone mad. You're going to choose a girl from rural Australia who's sensitive, despite the fact her parents probably have guns buried in their backyard for the upcoming race Armageddon. And finally, you're going to choose one skinny, pale, whiny person. And that's where I fit into the picture.

Andrew Denton: Your interview starts now. When you…In 'Race Around the World' you went to Mali and you had a voodoo curse put on your ex-girlfriend. What was the story there? How do you arrange a voodoo curse?

John Safran: Um, well, uh…you know, I just heard that, you know. It was actually in the Ivory Coast. I just heard you could…could do it. I just went there and got a guide, and the guide showed me to where the animist priests were that can perform this, and I'd brought along, luckily, a love letter of hers and also a photograph of hers.

Andrew Denton: That's very nice.

John Safran: And I got the…But, you know…it was all pixilated and stuff, for all intents and purposes, it kind of wasn't like, you know, a curse, sort of.

Andrew Denton: Why wasn't it a curse?

John Safran: Well, it was a curse. But on the actual television set, you know?

Andrew Denton: But the curse in real life was a curse, wasn't it?

John Safran: That depends whether you believe it.

Andrew Denton: Did your ex-girlfriend believe it?

John Safran: Well, I think there was Chinese whispers before it went to air. So I think through Chinese whispers, she heard worst-case scenario, which I don't think the actual show delivered on.

Andrew Denton: And what was the worst-case scenario?

John Safran: Oh, she dies. (Laughs) Nah, I thought she thought she was going to be named, and all that stuff like that and her photo shown, but for all intents and purposes, the whole thing could've been made up — but it wasn't.

Andrew Denton: Has anything weird happened in her life? Has anything weird happened in her life since?

John Safran: Um…not that I know of. I'm not allowed to go near her house.

Andrew Denton: Is that right?

John Safran: (Laughs)

Andrew Denton: She got another priest to take out a restraining order, did she, to keep you away?

John Safran: Yeah.

Andrew Denton: OK. Let's move to when you went to Channel Seven…

John Safran: Uh-oh!

Andrew Denton: You sent a motorised seagull onto the MCG to deliver cigarettes to Shane Warne.

John Safran: Oh, yeah.

Andrew Denton: Now, what was the fallout from all of that?

John Safran: Oh, I had to go to court, which was a bit unfortunate…

Andrew Denton: What for?

John Safran: Oh, it was because the police warned us once that we weren't allowed to drop it on and we said, "We won't do it." Then next drinks break we're kind of putting it back on again…I don't know. 'Pitch invasion' or something like that.

Andrew Denton: A pitch invasion of a seagull?

John Safran: Yeah, a remote-control seagull. So we were operating it from remote control. The seagull had a cigarette. It was when Shane Warne was going to get paid out big if he managed to avoid cigarettes.

Andrew Denton: Let's move to, um, probably your most famous piece of provocation, which, ironically, was never broadcast. It was made for the ABC but never put to air.

This is John Safran with the then-host and now-host of 'A Current Affair', Ray Martin.

(Archival footage.)

John Safran: Now, today we're going to find out exactly when Ray decides it's finally time to leave and go to the office. Now, to keep an accurate time of the exact point when he does leave his home, we've brought along our official timekeeper. Shane Paxton, thanks for joining us.

Shane Paxton: How're you, John?

John Safran: What time do you have?

Shane Paxton: We have 9:15 and still no Ray.

John Safran: I know that Ray knows who I am, so I've brought along a disguise — my Mike Munro papier-mache head. (Presses gate intercom buzzer repeatedly) Will you please come out, Mr Martin? It's 9:30, Mr Martin, why aren't you at work?

(Ray Martin covers camera, physically theatens John Safran.)

Shane Paxton: (Intercedes in scuffle) Ray, don't. Don't. It's not worth it, alright? Don't! Ray! Ray! Ray, don't! It's not worth it.

Ray Martin: Don't be silly because…(Knocks camera away)

Andrew Denton: Ooh.

Editors note: See it all via the link on the main page.....

John Safran: (Laughs and grimaces)

Andrew Denton: You look back at that and go, "Ugh!" What's your memory of that day?

John Safran: I remember, you know, in the car on the way back going, "Oh, that was…big. That was a big reaction."

Andrew Denton: I mean, you must have had some idea of the reaction you were hoping to get.

John Safran: Um, not necessarily, Andrew. I reckon the story would have worked, you know, if he just was, like, looking like a stunned mullet, for example, like, you know…I don't think I was expecting him to grab me by the collar and stuff, but, you know, I deserved it — I guess I was annoying.

Andrew Denton: That's an interesting point. Under the same pressure, do you think you would have reacted coolly, if you'd been in Ray Martin's shoes?

John Safran: No, but that was always the point of the piece, where it was like if you can go to Ray Martin's house and just say the most ridiculous accusations like, "You don't get out of bed until late," and falsely accuse him of stuff and get the host of a current affairs show to give the classic reaction of, you know…It's like how often have we watched current affairs shows where people have done that and we've judged them guilty? Because obviously if you grab a reporter or push with your hand, you must be guilty, and so that was kind of the point.

Andrew Denton: Shane Paxton, who had, of course…His family had been kind of displayed in front of the country by 'A Current Affair', he was your offsider. Was he happy with the day's events?

John Safran: I just don't know. I think he might have been happy with the actual story or whatever, but maybe not with the way it kind of, you know, came out like in magazines and stuff. That's the impression I gathered.

Andrew Denton: 'Cause some people would think you were just using him — a man who had a legitimate grievance — for laughs. Was there more to it than that?

John Safran: Uh…no, I don't think so. It's because I kind of…I knew someone who knew him. So we were going to do the Ray Martin thing and just kind of send up what current affairs does to other people, and then just 'cause I knew someone who knew him, it was like, "Do you want to come along?"

Andrew Denton: Music is, of course, one of your great passions — 'Music Jamboree' was all about music, and, in fact, you devoted one entire episode pretty much to the failure of your band Raspberry Cordial to break through to the next level. In your dream world, John Safran, what sort of musician would you be?

John Safran: Oh, there's no question about it. When I was fronting Raspberry Cordial, MC. Yeah, I just wanted to be a rapper, and I tried pretty damn hard. But the world wasn't ready for white rappers then.

Editors note: John apparently hasn't heard of the white, jewish Beasie Boys... and neither has Denton.

Andrew Denton: No. No.

John Safran: (Laughs) But I feel like, you know, I broke down the wall that Eminem's been able to walk through.

Andrew Denton: (Laughs) I've never heard him cite Raspberry Cordial as an influence. Dr Dre, but never Raspberry Cordial. Uh, did you have, do you think, the necessary equipment to break through, had society been with you? Did you have the voice? Did you have the moves?

John Safran: No, I just wasn't good enough. I did a lot of things that just…weren't good enough. I tried to do comic books when I was in primary. I just tried everything. From about Grade 6 up until about week four on 'Race Around the World', it was me trying different things and not quite getting it right or not quite having the right skill or something, and I'm afraid the band was another thing. I really tried for two years — we got a CD out and stuff like that — but, you know…

Andrew Denton: The lesson is if you're not good enough at anything, go into television — there's a career for you?

John Safran: Pretty much.

Andrew Denton: Good to know. I think you're underselling yourself.

This is from 'Music Jamboree', which was on SBS last year. This is John Safran as Prince. You be the judge.

(Archival footage, courtesy SBS.)

(Safran sings in high-pitched voice)

"That's the coming Armageddon
Will you return to dust
Or join the 144 in heaven?
The warning signs have been since 1914
Read Timothy, Matthew and Revelation
And join the New Power 'Watchtower' generation…"

John Safran: I told the sound guy to sweeten that voice, but there was only so much he could do.

Andrew Denton: No sound guy in the world could sweeten that voice. You were Prince trying to sell 'Watchtower' because he's a Jehov…

John Safran: There was a speculation he'd become a Jehovah's Witness.

Andrew Denton: That's good enough to go out there and sing like Prince. Is that the stupidest thing you've ever done on television?

John Safran: Yeah, probably that, and streaking on…I remember when I was streaking through Jerusalem, I was going, "I really have taken this little detour now. I've kind of gone a bit dadaist." You know, I've been a bit more focused and kind of more obvious subtext up until that point. But the Prince thing is another kind of going out on a limb.

Andrew Denton: Where do you…? 'Cause you're not…By your own admission, you're a shy guy. You're a pretty anxious guy. How do you work up the nerve to go and do stuff like that?

John Safran: I so don't enjoy it on any level. Besides, like, you have to do it to…

Andrew Denton: But why do you have to do it?

John Safran: Because, like, doing creative stuff is what makes me happy, and…I like writing. Writing the ideas, that's where I'm always the big mouth and stuff. The guy I write the show with, and we just kind of…You know, it's like, "OK, now I'm going to dress up as Prince," and I'm all real big brave then, and then it's like, "Oh, God," on the day, yeah.

Andrew Denton: So when you're travelling around dressed up as Prince, you're basically wishing you were anywhere else and someone else? Or are you thinking, "This is a great chance for me to go out there and just really confuse people"?

John Safran: It's a creative opportunity, and it's just like what I have to do to get the end product I want.

Andrew Denton: You mentioned streaking through Jerusalem. We'll look at that in a second.

John Safran: Oh.

Andrew Denton: Now, you had a religious upbringing — you're about to do a series on religion — but here you were at the centre of religious dissent in the world and you did a story about your football team, St Kilda. What led to that?

John Safran: It was just, like, I grew up in a St Kilda family where my grandfather and my mother, particularly my grandfather — real passionate St Kilda supporter — so it was kind of for him and…And the premise was…'Cause a lot of Jews go for St Kilda in Melbourne, and the only time St Kilda ever won a final was on…happened to match up with the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur, where all the Jews are in synagogue. So there was this kind of urban myth around Melbourne — like, "'Cause there were so many Jews in synagogue praying that day, that's why St Kilda won." And so I kind of went to test that out to see…well, if you go and do religious stuff for the sake of, you know, your grandfather's, you know, team, whether you can affect the outcome of a game. And it worked.

Andrew Denton: Did it?

John Safran: Yeah, we selected a particular game. I think they were playing Port Adelaide or something like that, and, um…Yeah. It, um…They won.

Andrew Denton: St Kilda won?

John Safran: Thanks to me.

Andrew Denton: Goodness me.

John Safran: (Laughs)

Andrew Denton: Let's look at what can only now be termed as a modern-day miracle.

(Archival footage: John Safran stands in Jerusalem street, wearing only zinc cream and beanie in St Kilda colours.)

John Safran: This is really silly, and it's quite lowbrow also. It's not, like, you know…it's not clever. Fuck it.

(Streaks through Jerusalem to the tune of 'Up There, Cazaly')

Oh, my God! I can't believe I'm doing this.

Andrew Denton: Terrific. You were on your own in Jerusalem, clearly — you're holding the camera. Where did you go at the end of this?

John Safran: (Laughs) Well, I kind of went into…There was some shop, and I told the guy what I was going to do — "Can I leave my clothes here, 'cause I'm just filming this story?" And people are such lunatics in Jerusalem, that probably seemed relatively normal or whatever. Considering some guy probably came into his shop 15 minutes earlier and said they were the Messiah or something. So then I ran and ran around…

Andrew Denton: But you had to get back. You ended up naked somewhere, and then you had to get back.

John Safran: Yeah, I had to run back. This was one of the later stories — we'd been overseas alone for a while and…(Points to head and whistles crazily) So…

Andrew Denton: Did anybody say anything to you at all?

John Safran: Well, bizarrely, once I kind of finished filming that, I kind of looked at the rushes on my little camera and I was going, "There's not too many people in the background. Maybe people in Australia will think I'm gutless and I particularly chose an empty street or something." So I decided the next day to do a 'take two', and I went down to this marketplace and I ran with the camera and stuff, and the Israeli soldiers stopped me and started screaming at me and all this stuff like that, so I had to then go back and put my clothes back on.

Andrew Denton: So they could strip you and search you?

John Safran: Yeah, I didn't realise what a fluke that was, that I'd actually managed to get my whole body in, 'cause when I was running through the market it was just the head, and I was like, "Oh, God. Can't believe I've run naked and haven't even got it on camera."

Andrew Denton: Do you know what's in this envelope? (Safran shakes head) You have no idea?

John Safran: No.

Andrew Denton: This was part of your audition for 'Race Around the World', and it's your answer to question 7 — "What are the most important things in your life?" Now, it's never been opened, as far as I can see. Shall we open it now?

John Safran: I guess, you know. I'm…I'm brave.

Andrew Denton: What do you reckon might be in here?

John Safran: I can't remember. I hope it wasn't like the one question where everything else was stupid and then I thought, "I'd better do a serious one, show I've got some depth to me."

(Denton opens envelope.)

Oh, no.

Andrew Denton: Well, it's a card which says, "I love you."

John Safran: This could be quite embarrassing.

Andrew Denton: OK. The most important things in your life.

John Safran: Oh, no! No, no. If you like…No, no. Like what…You know. No. Just read it.

No, but can you just warn me? Give me five seconds advance on the audience? Am I going to…? Like, what is this?

Andrew Denton: It's going to be difficult for you.

John Safran: Uh-oh! Oh, really? Oh, no!

Andrew Denton: Your last chance — should we read it out?

John Safran: No, no!

Audience: Yes!

John Safran: No.

Andrew Denton: No, fair enough. We'll take a vote. All those against?

John Safran: No!

Andrew Denton: All those for?

Audience: Yay!

Editor: GET ON WITH IT!!

Andrew Denton: OK, here it is.

John Safran: Oh, no!

Andrew Denton: The most important thing in John Safran's life…

John Safran: Oh! Oh! Oh, no! Oh!

Andrew Denton: (Reads) "Dearest judging panel, I guess I have to concede that the most important thing is love…"

John Safran: Oh, no!

(Audience laughs.)

Oh! Oh, no! Oh, can you just read it fast?

Andrew Denton: Oh, no. I'm enjoying it too much.

John Safran: What? How can…? I swear every other question I answered was a smart-arse thing. And then…

Andrew Denton: Mmm. Well, let's continue, shall we?

John Safran: OK.

Andrew Denton: Brackets — "(the boy-meets-girl type). And even though I am — quote — 'in between drinks at the moment,' I will resist the temptation to become one of those cold-hearted cynical people who pretends love ain't such a big deal. Yours forever, John. Kiss, kiss. Hug, hug. PS — My CD collection comes a close second."

Aw!

And then you went off and put a voodoo curse on your girlfriend.

John Safran: Yeah.

Andrew Denton: John Safran, we look forward to whatever's next with interest.

John Safran: Thank you very much.