Joaquin Phoenix Joaquin Phoenix made his film debut
at age 10 in Space Camp, a lighthearted sci-fi flick in
which he and a group of campers are accidentally orbited
into space. Now in his mid-20s, Joaquin has established
himself as a serious actor with a penchant for working
with some of Hollywood's top stars. His credits include
Parenthood with Ron Howard, Return to Paradise and Clay
Pigeons with Vince Vaughn, To Die For with Nicole Kidman
and 8MM with Nicolas Cage.
He sees his latest film,
Gladiator, as the rarest of opportunities -- even though
he's never watched a Roman epic before. "I never
had!" he says. "I feel so embarrassed!"
Maybe it's not such a bad thing, though. "I had to
take my own fresh approach, and I certainly wasn't
influenced by any other films of the genre," he
says. Joaquin spoke with iCAST about the making of
Gladiator, working with director Ridley Scott and the
challenge of playing his most complex character yet, the
ambitious young prince Commodus.
iCAST: Your
performance was very satisfying in Gladiator. What did
you think?
JP: Thank you. It was an incredible opportunity, and
somewhat rare, to get not only a script that has scenes
that are multi-layered and rich, but also to work with a
director like Ridley Scott. If you look throughout his
films, he's interested in the epic film visually, and a
large canvas, but he also values the details and nuances
of a human story. And it's so rare for an actor to have
that opportunity.
This film has everything for me. I mean, more physical
aspects of the character, the sword fighting towards the
end. And you don't always get that -- you're either going
to be doing the buddy cop movie where you're like,
"No!" and running around shooting; or it's a
more intimate, character-driven drama. But this film
seemed to offer all of those possibilities.
iCAST: There must have been a point where you
thought, this is really hard; the vulnerability, the
deceitfulness.
JP: Sure. Balancing all of that is difficult. But,
you know, I had a lot of help with Ridley. And especially
in a film of this size, it can be difficult to maintain
focus. How is this scene going to fit in with the
previous scene, or the following scene? You need [to be
able to ask] a director, "Can I go here? Can I
explore this part of the character at this point, or is
it giving away too much?" So we always were riding a
fine line.
Actors always talk about their characters having an arc
throughout a film. But Commodus seems to have miniature
arcs within a scene. So it was difficult to balance that.
But it's kind of everything you want as an actor. To be
honest, you can just get plain bored. I know I certainly
have in the past with some roles. So there's this kind of
an ideal opportunity.
iCAST: What made you choose this film?
JP: This is a film where there's no reason to not do
it. I thought there was that opportunity to try something
that I hadn't done before that would be challenging to
me, and that would also be hopefully unique and enticing
for an audience.
But the chance to work with Ridley, who I've admired for
years [was a big attraction]. He actually
executive-produced Clay Pigeons, so I had met him before.
And he's brilliant, and Russell Crowe, who I just think
is this genius actor. There were so many reasons to do
this film. I think that's what an actor looks for, the
opportunity to embody characters from different periods
and different scales of production, be it a small film
that's shot in five weeks and under 3 million; or a film
of this scale, which took five months. So each process
tests you in a different way. And that's certainly what I
look for in a film.
iCAST: Have you watched movies in this genre
before?
JP: I never had! When you ask me this, I feel so
embarrassed! I never had. But I actually am glad that I
hadn't. And I hadn't going into production, either. So I
kind of had to take my own fresh approach, and I
certainly wasn't influenced by any other films of the
genre...
iCAST: You should see Spartacus.
JP: Now?
iCAST: Yeah, now. But it's funny, because you're
sort of a cross between a character in Spartacus and The
Robe.
JP: Can I ask you a really stupid question? Who
played Spartacus?
iCAST: Kirk Douglas played Spartacus. But you
actually reminded me of Laurence Olivier in Spartacus,
especially the way they use your face.
JP: Thank you for that! I really appreciate it.
iCAST: Ridley Scott is very quiet. He's standing
there with the cigar, basically in charge of it all. Is
that what keeps you going when it gets tough, this
feeling that it's okay, that someone's in control?
JP: Absolutely. On a film like this, I can't stress how
important that is. He is so patient and so calm. I don't
know how he'd do it. He'd have five cameras running, five
monitors, hundreds of extras. And he'd be watching all
this.
And I know that one of the cameras is just floating
between me in the roll box [in the arena] and Lucilla,
played by Connie Nielsen. And Ridley would look at it all
[using all the different cameras] and I'd just be doing a
bunch of stuff. And suddenly the radio would crackle,
"Ridley's coming on." And he'd come up and say,
"I like that thing that you did, try that
again." And I was like, how the hell did you see
that? You've got tigers attacking Russell over here, and
somehow he's able to just balance all of it, take it all
in, and edit in his mind.
And even between takes, they'd be setting everything back
up, and he'd be drawing the storyboards for the following
day's work, or for the scenes that we were going to do.
And they're works of art of themselves. They're beautiful
-- the detail. So I really looked for that, especially
since it was the first film of this size and caliber for
me.
Initially when I arrived on the set, I just looked up and
went, "Oh no! What have I got myself into?" I
thought it would be overwhelming. But he is so reserved
and calm. You just pick up on that, pick up on that
energy. I mean, you certainly can feel if somebody seems
overwhelmed and frenzied; and it's the last thing you
want from a director when they're going into a five-month
shoot with a picture like this.
iCAST: Talk about the complexity of your
character. Is it fun to play somebody who, from one
moment to the next, you don't know is going to cry or
just lose it?
JP: It's endless -- the directions that Commodus could go
into. It's always fun exploring it. I remember going into
this scene, which after is what we called the "Busy
Bee" scene, in which I explain, "If his mother
so much as dah-dah-dah, he will die..." and this
whole kind of thing. I had always wanted Commodus to have
this kind of confined rage - so that you were never sure
in which direction he was going to go. He always seems to
be twitching and boiling underneath. I thought it was
kind of the ideal opportunity for him to just lash out
and blow his top. And I said to Ridley, "Do you
think that's right? I was thinking about just screaming
right now here at the end, 'Am I not merciful?' when he
reaches the line." And he said, "Yeah, yeah.
Try it." So we did it.
So it's things like that that are fun and exciting. When
you get to set, there are a number of paths to take with
a character. It seemed like the work was never done. We
could never do enough to discover this guy.
iCAST: Can you explain how you prepared for the scene
with Richard Harris? Working with Richard Harris is quite
an achievement as well.
JP: First, the dialogue in and of itself just was
powerful. When I first read it, it hit me emotionally.
And then I just -- I magnify those moments. And I go away
alone, and I just play the dialogue over in my head, over
and over. I'm afraid that I can't really do myself
justice in explaining the process. But I just tried to
get to the root of that pain, of a child's feeling of
neglect, and this great regret.
What's important is, he's fighting to hold back this
emotion, and yet it's finally this confrontation. I
always imagine that the speech that he has is something
that he's said in his head a thousand times in his
fantasy, talking to his father -- as if it's something he
always wanted to say. And then suddenly he has the
opportunity. But there's almost this reluctance and this
fear to give in. And finally, the emotion just becomes so
overwhelming, and it's just this sudden outpouring.
iCAST: Did you have to gain weight for this role?
JP: No, I put on weight. Initially I thought that I
wanted to be built, muscular, throughout the course of
the film. So first, leading into pre-production, I worked
out for a couple of months, just eating a lot, putting on
weight, and getting more muscular for a lot of fight
scenes. And then once I became Emperor -- we shot
somewhat in sequence, suddenly I was like, "Oh, fuck
all that! I'm not going to the gym!" And I started
eating a lot. I wanted him to put on weight. I wanted to
try and show this decadent nature, and I thought it would
help me age a little bit. Because in the beginning of the
film, I really wanted him to be the young prince in
waiting, and there's something more disheveled and
scraggly about him. Like, I had my hair permed twice.
And then as he becomes emperor, I just wanted to alter
his physical appearance, because you leave that story for
a few months, and it's Russell's journey. And when you
come back, I thought it was really important to alter his
physical appearance as much as possible. So at that point
I put on some weight. I don't know if you noticed, but
there's this fabulous Roman bloat that I had.
iCAST: And you're a vegetarian, aren't you? So what did
you eat?
JP: Pasta! And also if you have vodka before bed,
like three times a week, it helps a lot.
iCAST: What was it like being with the cast after
hours?
JP: It was this little community. We shot in Malta,
and it's an island. And we called it The Rock, because we
just felt imprisoned. There was nowhere to go. The first
week, you go all over the island -- that's it. So we'd
all just get together every night after work and talk,
play backgammon. But mostly, we just had political
debates. Derek Jacobi and I just started those. But he
was really interested in an actor's responsibility, if
any, for political causes. So we used to get in these big
table discussions -- of which I won't share any with you!
[Laughter].
iCAST: Do you feel now that you are more
comfortable working on films of this size?
JP: Yeah, certainly. In many ways, this was the
icebreaker. But, you know, honestly, I go into every film
petrified. There's so much riding on it. And once you're
done, it's done. It's in the can. There's nothing you can
do about it. And it's overwhelming. Once you get into the
wardrobe and you get on set, you really forget about how
much money is being put into your production. It's just
you and the director and the actors.
iCAST: That's the part that you enjoy, the intimacy?
JP: That's all I want. That's all I'm after. The process
is what interests me the most. Ridley and I would sit
between setups, and I'd just stay on set all day long,
and just talk to him, and pore over the script. And
there's nothing more exhilarating. It's kind of the
greatest high in the world -- to discover something new
about the character that you hadn't seen. It's just that
moment where the light bulb goes off in your head, and
you go, "Oh my God, yes! We could play it like that.
This would be really interesting if we..."
It's kind of endless. In the scene with Connie Nielsen,
where I talk about a father's dream, "Life, it's a
dream, a frightful dream." And at the end of that
scene, it kind of ended as a number of the other scenes
had ended, with me saying, "Stay with me
tonight." And she said no and walked away.
And all three of us were trying to find a more
interesting version of that scene. So we came up with
laying her down on the bed, talking during this whole
thing. She feels very sympathetic towards my character.
And I lay her down, and go in for the kiss. We called it
the Abort Mission scene, because as I went to kiss her, I
just decided no, because it's not really what Commodus
wanted. His sexual desires were just masking his true
needs.
And so that kind of thing, it's just rare. And it's so
exciting to take a scene in a completely different
direction. I mean, we absolutely altered what that scene
was, and what an audience would have walked away feeling,
had it stayed in its original condition. There's nothing
quite like that. That's what I love to do.
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