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Your work has been extraordinary of late. In fact, I think it's better than it's ever been, even though you have been unhappy and frustrated with the way Luke and GH are being written. Such excellence usually tends to come when an actor is at the height of great material, when all the elements are in synch. Obviously, this is not the case now -- so explain yourself. Why are you flying so high?
The only thing I can say that I'm really clear about is that when Bob Guza came on as head writer a year ago, he put me solidly back on track. He plucked me out of the barren wasteland of moral certitude and put me back on the craggy cliffs of danger and emotional anarchy. He put me back on track so solidly and he was so courageous about letting me push the boundaries -- things you and I have talked about before, the darker side of Luke Spencer and his obsession with his family and his enemies, real and imagined -- he put me so solidly on track that I've really just been coasting on that. I noticed this a long time ago: When you're on a show for years, good stories come and bad stories come; there's always going to be a lag. It's all cyclical. And I've always noticed that when we come off a really good story that is character-driven, and I know exactly what Luke is doing, I can coast on his adrenaline when the less spectacular material comes along. And I think that is what's happening now. When Bob allowed us to reopen the doors to the darker chambers of Luke's heart again, it fleshed him out. He's a cardboard character unless he's got the darkness. That's when he's a lot richer, more real, more appealing for me. So my intent when I pick up a script that is not as dramatic or focused as one might hope, is to just try to find Luke somewhere in a joke or in a line or in a relationship with another character, and just play that. And I underplay the rest of it.
Yes, you certainly do. Other actors would get self-indulgent in times of crisis. Some we might mention would be hanging from the chandeliers. I swear, we'd never know by the honesty and subtlety -- and apparent joy -- in your performance that you are so at odds with the material.
A long, long time ago a great acting teacher -- it was [Lee] Strasberg -- said to me, "The weaker the material, the less you do with it." So when you don't do much for days at a time, because the material is weaker than you would hope, you really have to fall back on the character and the relationships. The relationships are really strong on GH. The history holds us up. I can be in a scene with Jackie Zeman, and I don't care what we say -- it's still gonna work on some level. It's pretty much the same with Genie, although it's much more complicated -- it's difficult to have two people driving the scene. It can be easily off-balance. There are times when she's got to be strong in certain ways, weaker in others. It's a dance. The Luke and Laura relationship is always more complicated. But Luke's relationships with Bobbie or Tony or this new one developing with Carly, these dynamics are so clear that you can pretty much look at the other person and get through it. I always feel that if you've got one good moment in a scene, you're ahead of the game because you can focus on that and it'll put everything else in order. When you can't find anything in a scene, then you're f---ed. That's usually when Luke winds up smoking a lot of cigars.
Some actors have chemistry with nobody, some with select people, but you have it with everybody -- no exceptions. You turn on every costar. What is it about you?
I don't know. I guess you'd have to ask them.
Well, has this always been such a natural state for you that you don't even think about it?
Chemistry is an odd word. And what makes it I don't really know. I don't go into any scene saying, "OK, there's gotta be chemistry." There is no way to play that. It's either there or it isn't. I really try to look into the other person's head. I play a game where I try very hard to combine, say, John York with Mac Scorpio. The qualities I love about John become the person I call "Bubba" and the qualities about Mac that I can't relate to become the person I call "Scorpio." I always try to find two or three different names for the other characters, because people do that -- a guy like Luke has nicknames for everybody. Part of that is so I can clue into a certain part of that person. I just one day started calling John York "Bubba" because he is -- he's just a great big Bubba! A lovable sweetheart! And John brings that to Mac, and you can't deny the truth of that. So even when Luke thinks Mac is square or he disagrees with him, whatever, there's still a way to listen to him that embraces him. Even when Luke doesn't like characters, I try to embrace them. Even with a nemesis like Stefan. Tony Geary still likes Steve Nichols, so if I can pull things out of him... [Long pause] Oh, I don't know... I'm looking for a way to answer your question here...
You make other actors listen -- even the neophytes. They all come to the party when they act with you.
Part of that is because I purposely try to do something different with every take, to keep it alive for myself. I'm not interested in playing games with other people's heads, I'm not a practical joker. But I do believe in living in the moment. I change words sometimes, or someone will say something I think Luke needs to comment on. I had a scene with Kristina Wagner the other day and I decided Luke was just going to flirt like crazy with her because she's adorable -- and his wife's outta town. So I lit a cigar and just flirted with Kristina, not Felicia. I tried to get into Kristina, past the Felicia facade, and that sometimes brings out surprising things for both of us. Is this making any sense? Oh, f---, I don't know what chemistry is.
What you're talking about could freak out the other actor.
It does sometimes. And when they get too freaked out I don't do it to 'em. But most of the people I work with look forward to it -- which may be one of the reasons they come to this party a little more on their toes. Like Kristina said before our scene, "You're gonna f--- with me, aren't you?" I said, "No, I'm not -- you've got me mistaken with your husband!" [He flashes an evil grin.] And we laughed. She ended up having a good time. She wasn't dead in the scene -- not that she ever is -- but you can't be dead if you think the other actor might throw you a curve. I love curves! Jonathan Jackson will throw 'em, Genie throws 'em -- anybody who's confident will throw 'em. And that ignites a scene more than anything a writer can provide you with.
Are you in much contact with the writers?
I am in contact with the story editors -- Michelle Val Jean etc. I call them about things. I had a couple of meetings with Mr. Culliton. I had a couple of meetings with Bob Guza -- but after having one dinner with Bob Guza I was in heaven. He came from the roots of Luke and Laura and he obviously came in ready to put us right back there. With Claire [Labine] I had a lot of contact. I like her very much and have tremendous respect for her, but that marriage didn't work out too well for the character.
Would that have been different if you'd done anything differently -- more communication, better communication?
She tried to "get" Luke Spencer, but he's a very difficult character to get. She had a certain place she wanted him, but it wasn't where I wanted him to be. We had a talk about it and I said, "OK, you're the writer -- write him the way you want him to be and I'll see if I can do it." And I did. And I fell through the sofa cushions. Her attention wasn't on us.
Do you think you scare writers?
Yes. But you know what? It's not my problem. I can't take care of people.
But if you had a writer who was scared, it does eventually become your problem because they'll react in any number of adverse ways. It's not natural for a writer to say, "OK, I'm going to push aside my fear of this pushy, powerhouse star and write something fabulous for him anyway!" Fear can easily lead to dislike. Or a writer can stop writing for you altogether, or pull a passive-aggressive number and quietly take it out on you with illogical material -- which is, by the way, what I suspect happened with you and Culliton.
All of those things have happened over the years. But that's the only way I know how to work. [Former GH executive producer] Gloria Monty taught me and Doug Marland, who created the character, taught me. I was invited in very early on to be a part of the birth of Luke Spencer. So now I really see no reason to diminish him for any writer's comfort. There is a malady in this business -- and it happens all over daytime -- writers come onto a show and rather than stick with the characters who have brought the show along thus far, they want a clean slate. They want to bring in all their new characters. It's just what they want to do, partially because they get residuals for the new characters, partially because they understand them better, partially because they don't have to do the background work. And we have tremendous background on this show. It cannot be ignored -- the actors will know it and the audience will know it. But inevitably new writers will come in and go, "Oh, OK, I got Luke figured out -- he's a wild one" or "He's a whatever" and it's never as simple as "He's this, he's that." There's no simple category that fits these characters! So, yeah, I am demanding and I do ask for changes, but -- as you can tell by what you're seeing on air -- there's only so much I can do.
If Doug were still alive and writing this show today, could he still be satisfying you?
I think he could, and the proof of it is that Bob Guza could. Bob worked with him, under him, he learned about these characters right from the source.
Yes, but Guza had a long, long break from the show. Soap-writing tends to wear out even the greatest talents. Beyond Claire's unsuccessful job with Luke, she did many great things for this show but eventually, even she, too, went haywire -- at the end, there was way too much disease, way too many breakups of popular couples and too damn many animals brought in for comic relief. She was screwing up in major ways. This is part of the nature of the beast: The great talents commit so thoroughly, so fiercely that when they go haywire, they go really haywire.
Well, Doug might have gone haywire somewhere along the line, too -- but the kind of haywire he would have gone would still have been closer to the source.
OK, give us the lowdown on your notorious meeting with Culliton. Word is everywhere that you were incredibly crucial to his departure. It is said that you threatened to quit if he wasn't canned. Some even say you punched him -- which, I must say, has done wonders for your reputation. You were already considered King on the Internet. Now you are God. So what's the scoop?
Did I have anything to do with him leaving? I couldn't say for sure. I know that shortly before he left we had a meeting. The meeting did not go well, but I certainly made no ultimatums and there was certainly no violence. I really don't know if I had anything to do with his departure, but I wouldn't shed any tears if I did -- I don't know any actor who wasn't complaining about the writing, about lack of story, about nothing happening and about everything happening off-camera etc., etc. So perhaps I had something to do with it. The truth is, I don't know. It seems to be my position to be the loudest of the actors -- I sort of represent the group.
Who else was at this meeting?
It was just he and I. At the end of it, I said, "Look, I intend to take a humongous time off this summer. Maybe you can get things straightened out when I'm gone." And I also said, "I must leave you with one thing -- writers come and go, the producers come and go and, true, actors come and go, but the characters remain. So I figure my biggest job right now is keeping this character intact until you're gone." That is how our meeting went. And then I was very pleased to hear within five to six days that he had taken a powder -- so if I had anything to do with it, God bless me. Now I don't know how you're gonna write that without making me sound like a total a--hole.
Well, I certainly don't think you sound like an a--hole, and neither would anybody else who's invested their heart in this show.
I really feel at this stage after 20 years with these characters -- and I hate to speak for Genie, but I think she feels the same way -- the biggest part of my job these days is hanging onto the franchise, making sure that it's not destroyed or discarded by people who either don't have the ability or the time to look into the history and build their stories out of what the audience already knows.
We are now in this era where writers and producers come and go so quickly that nobody assumes they'll be keeping the job they currently have for very long. Therefore, they have no long-term investment in the future. It's like living in a community and not giving a damn that vandals are spray-painting graffiti in the school yard, because you won't be living there in two years.
Exactly.
It's up to you -- the actors -- to maintain that history.
When Bob Guza came in, he didn't suddenly flood the show with new characters but actually reached into that treasure chest of past experience and relationships -- and as a result of that we had 18 Emmy nominations. I rest my case. I guarantee you that the actors who were nominated -- and I've heard from practically every one of them -- that they chose scenes from the first four months of the [qualifying period]. Because after that, Guza was gone. We were stumbling the rest of the time.
Let's get back to this meeting -- was there any follow-up with [executive producer] Wendy [Riche]? Why are people under the impression you made an ultimatum?
No, I didn't say anything to her at all except, "You can do better."
And you swear it didn't get physical? I was hoping that part was true.
[Laughing] No! I did not punch him out. It did not get ugly. I stated my case and he tried to state his, but it made no sense to me and I said, "Well, if there's any way I can help you..." Because I've offered and offered and offered. I'm willing to sit with these people, I'm willing to talk with them -- and Wendy has been willing to have that happen. At least Claire Labine would sit and talk to me before she said, "I can't write this character." This guy thought he was writing it! So I have 10 weeks off this summer and I'm going to take it. I love the show and I love the character, but it's very painful year after year to get three months of good story that then goes completely to s---. It's very, very painful. But I'm sure it's as painful for the others as it is for me. But I must say this about Wendy: She has given me free reign to do what I can to keep my own stuff afloat, and I have to hand it to her for that. She truly tries not to restrict me from full-character bloom.