Dr.Joe's Data Base

Contents: in part

#0# Introduction 1
#1# Abbreviations 1
#2# Is it love or not? 1
#3# Nice guys and general stuff 1
#4# Kissing and hugging 1
#5# Snuggling and sleeping 1
#6# Gifts 1
#7# What do women want? 2
#8# Dating 2
#9# Sensitivity training 2
#A# Backrubs and massages 2
#B# Fireplace scenes and the RFA 2
#C# Breaking up 2
#D# Flowers and their meaning 3
#E# "I love you" in various languages 3
#F# ASCII graphics 3
#G# Mailing list(s) 3
#H# Literature 3

Search for the string #?# to find the corresponding chapter!

Don't expect an appropriate answer to any of your questions in this "FAQ"!
When it comes to romance no question has one simple answer, but many
different answers. It all depends very much on the persons involved.
Yet you can find many interesting ideas that could inspire your creativity.
Try to adapt them to your individual needs/tastes/styles/characters/cultures
or better try to invent something new!

Contrary to other subjects a FAQ on romance can't be a list of objective
questions and answers that everyone can agree on.
This "FAQ" is largely composed of quotes from different people's postings.
It isn't just a sterile list of questions and answers that doesn't reflect
the authors' personality and passion, but a mixture of various ways of
advice giving.
Always remember that this "FAQ" doesn't contain eternal truths, but just
the opinions of the authors! Feel encouraged to disagree! Don't take
everything seriously!

Some things to remember when posting to alt.romance:
* Feel free to ask questions that already are in this "FAQ"!
There will always be some answers that can NOT be found in a short FAQ
on the delicate subject of romance...
* If you want to prove how smart you are please post the most useful, most
empathizing advice instead of the most biting flame!
* If you need to post something that has nothing to do with romance please
consider setting the "Followup-To:" line to more appropriate newsgroup(s)!
* Advice on posting to Usenet can regularly be found in news.announce.newusers

Thanks to all who contributed to this "FAQ" by posting interesting articles
and making helpful suggestions!

Any comments and suggestions for improvements are welcome!

#1# Abbreviations:

AIDS = Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome
BF = BoyFriend
BTW = By The Way
FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions
FYI = For Your Information
GF = GirlFriend
ILY = I Love You
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO = In My Not So Humble Opinion
IMO = In My Opinion
LDR = Long Distance Relationship
LJBF = Let's Just Be Friends
MOTAS = Member Of The Appropriate Sex
MOTOS = Member Of The Opposite Sex
MOTSS = Member Of The Same Sex
POV = Point Of View
RFA = Romantic Fire Association
RP = Romantic Partner
SO = Significant Other (not Sex Object :-) Please consider using RP instead!)
STD = Sexually Transmitted Disease
XSO = ex-SO
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary
:-) = smilie (indicates humorous remark; some other smilies: ;-) :) 8-)

#2# Is it love or not?: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--

From: haywire@wpi.WPI.EDU (Haywire) -------------------------------------------
Subject: mature love vs. infatuation

While cleaning out my room I found a memo from my freshman year about planned
parenthood, social deseases, etc... Inside I found this:

TEN QUESTIONS TO ASK ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP
1. What do I want from this relationship?
2. Have I told him/her what is important to me in a relationship?
3. Does he/she tell me what is important to him/her in a relationship?
4. Am I happy with the way things are?
5. What type of changes would make it better?
6. Can we talk about touching?
7. Do I feel good about the touching we do?
8. Am I feeling pressured or am I pressurring?
9. How does the relationship affect other things or people in my life?
10 Who can I talk to when things get tough?

Then it goes into these definitions:

MATURE LOVE
*both are individuals apart from the other
*each accepts the fact that neither is perfect
*the relationship is strong in tough times as well as happy times
*the love gives each person energy to devote to all aspects of life
*the two people are close friends
*each person continues to grow as an independent human being
*there is joy in giving as well as recieving
*there is honesty and trust between the two people
*each feels a responsibility to the others well being

INFATUATION IS NOT LOVE
*the person depends on the relation for self esteem
*the person takes more from the relationship than they give
*each is jealous of the others seperate activities
*the relationship drains the person of energy
*the person is afraid that the other person will lose interest in them
*the person can only think of the other person

What do you think

From: U51754@uicvm.uic.edu (Kimikimkim) ---------------------------------------
Subject: How do you know when it's love? (Summary of replies to a survey)

[...]
1. When you see someone you like, how do you attract that person?
*I flirt and smile a lot. I try to let them see who I am by sharing myself.
*I find out what our mutual interests are and I try to find a way to share
them.
*By conversations and phone calls, make the other person know that you are
alive and interested in him/her.
*Do not put on an act, just be yourself.
*You cannot go out and try "lines" on him/her, these are normally turn offs.
*Do not try and move too fast. If it is meant to be, it will happen.

2. And once that person is attracted to you, how do you know you're in love?
*By looking into his eyes and seeing my reflections through the tears of joy
in his eyes.
*By enjoying and appreciating the little things he did for me and getting
goose bumps at the sound of his voice when he called my name.
*I would say that if you are waiting for it to happen, it will take longer or
it will not happen. Be patient with it.
*When I know that I have seen my lover's soul and I love it.
*Sharing daily things with each other and showing undivided attention to that
person.

3. When you're in love, how would you express it?
*Making the other person the most important person in your life is the key.
*By being there and being able to count on the other person. You must be
honest too.
*I do his laundry and make his dinner for him when he is too tired to do them.
*I do the mush stuff: cards, flowers, weekends away, etc.
*I treat him well. I treat him like a best friend because he is.

4. And after expressing your everlasting love, how does your significant
other return it?
*By telling me how he feels deep inside, opening up to me, and telling me
every little thing about his feelings towards things.
*He returns my love by holding my hand when we are walking across the
street.
*Just seeing the glow and smile on the other person's face means that it
must be love!
*Love is a give and take arrangement. You must give love in order to
receive it.
*He loves me all the time! He purrs when I wake him up in the morning.
He hugs me throughout the day.
*When he looks at me, I see the love in his eyes. He treats me as though
I was precious.

Failing all else, one slightly insane guru suggested a sure fire method:
*I would light my hair on fire and place a live salmon in my vest pocket to
attract her. I know I'm in love when she can enjoy my salmon, but still
respect my mind. I show her my love by doing interpretive dancing with
fluorescent lightbulbs, followed by splashing multicolored dayglow paint
against my thighs, and then dinner at McDonalds. And I know she loves me
when there's an absence of gunfire and lawsuits.
[...]

From: drl@sol.acs.unt.edu (Laakso Dianna) -------------------------------------
Subject: seeing 'the signs' (body language etc.)

peregrin@husc13.harvard.edu (James Peregrino) writes:
[...]
>1) she makes an attempt to break your personal space. i.e gets a little
>closer to you than most people do.

Yes, this is something some of us do. When standing and talking to
someone I'm attracted to, I move just a little closer. If there's
an empty seat beside him then of course I sit there. If he's done
something kind for me then I touch him lightly on the arm when I
say 'thanks'. Etc.

>2) she conveniently runs into. Especially if your daily patterns are
>predictable.

Yep. I would try to be where he is.... but not so often that I would
make a pest of myself.

>3) her dressing patterns change. But balance this with knowing that it
>could be due to a change in season.

If she begins to wear pretty things, like romantic dresses, or skirts
instead of jeans, jewlery when she never did before, perfume, a more
attractive hairstyle, then interpret it as a sign. These are all things
I find myself doing when I'm interested in someone.

>4) Is she nervous around you? Makes silly mistakes?

Definitely a sign, especially if she's just getting to know you...
however, if the nervousness diminishes, DON'T take it as a sign
that she's losing interest! Personally the more I like him and
the more I get to know him, the less nervous I am around him.

>5) When you are having a conversation with her and it is going well (or
>very interesting) does she appear inordinately happy about that?

How do you know women so well? ;) You'll see it in her eyes...if she
thinks things are going well and that you're interested in her too, then
it will show. Just take a good look into her eyes. You can't miss it.

>6) Has she made any attempt to feel you out? A personal question dropped
>in the middle of a conversation. Look for questions such as "Where are
>you from?" "What town do you live in?". And especially any information
>that could be used to determine if you are single or attached.

'What do you like to do in your free time?' 'How do you like this or that
about your job?' 'Tell me about your family' I've been in a situation
before when I was almost positive that he was interested in me, but
I got the feeling that he was waiting for me to ask about his personal
life, because it had something to do with his hesitation in starting a
relationship with me. I didn't ask though...most women wouldn't unless
they are very assertive (wish I were). Don't take it as a sign of
non-interest if she doesn't take hints like that.

>7) Body language: Either A) Looks you right in the eye. B) Avoids your
>glance. Contradictory? Sure, but it is up to you to test this. Does
>she look everyone else right in the eye? You job is to see if you can
>find a consistent pattern of things that she does differently around
>you.

I look him straight in the eye, and hold his eyes a moment longer
than I would in ordinary conversation with just anyone.

James, you're a pretty observant guy. I wish they were all!

- Dianna

#3# Nice guys and general stuff: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--

From: 274-0106@mcimail.com (Paul J. Wilczynski) -------------------------------
Subject: Nice guys / meeting women

I've been reading a lot of postings from guys who are having problems
finding a relationship. Many of them (but not all) speaking of their
being a 'nice guy' and not wanting to be aggressive.

This is coming from someone who's 43. I've wanted to comment on these
postings for a while, and finally decided to do it.

When I was a teen thru my mid-20s, I characterized myself as a 'nice guy'.
Same story I hear here on a regular basis ... lots of women would tell me
what a great catch I'd be for someone else. Sounds nice the first time
you hear it. Maybe the second, and possibly the third. After that, it
gets old really fast.

What I finally realized, after a *long* time, was that I was waiting for
"something" to happen, and it didn't. I *certainly* didn't want to offend
a women by suggesting we be something more than friends, did I? I *certainly*
didn't want to risk getting my face slapped by suggesting (in any manner)
that the bedroom might be an appropriate place to spend the rest of the
evening, did I?

Let me tell you, in no particular order, what I've learned about this whole
thing called "relationships between men and women". Take it for what it's
worth ... and remember it's often worth what you pay for it. Some of these
points are interrelated ...

1. With rare exceptions, women are not offended if you make a pass at them,
as long as it's done with some amount of taste. In fact, after a fairly
short period of time (mileage may vary), women draw an important conclusion
if you *don't* make a pass. And that conclusion is that you're not terribly
interested in being more than a friend. Let me explain that I consider 'make
a pass' to be a very broad term ... it can be something as non-threatening as
putting you hand on her arm briefly and telling her that you think she looks
especially nice tonight.

2. If you're interested in a women as possibly more than a friend, you *have*
to tell her that - somehow - fairly soon. Probably by the end of the first
date. Again, it doesn't have to be anything Outrageously Significant, but
it's got to be *something*. (see last sentence above). It doesn't have to
be words. It at least has to be some sort of signal.

3. On the subject of compliments:
a. Women enjoy receiving them.
b. But not *all* the time - they get boring and embarrassing.
c. And they *know* when you're lying.
d. You're much better off complimenting a woman on something she has
some control over. Her hair style. A piece of jewelry. Her
presentation in a class. Not particularly her eyes, her skin color,
the size of her breasts. *Especially* not the size of her breasts.

4. *Practice* dealing with women, especially if you're shy. They usually
don't bite (some do, actually, but that's another topic and doesn't come
until somewhat later in the relationship ...) How? Easy:
a. Say hi to at least 3 women a day you've never spoken to before, or
maybe even never seen before. Say it when you pass them in the hall.
When you sit down next to them in class. When you buy something from
them in a store. Why?
1) Because you'll probably at the very least get a suprised smile
which will make you feel *lots* better about yourself
2) Because they might say something back to you, and then you're
talking
Don't worry about saying anything else. Just "hi". If you want to
be brave, and it's the right situation (not passing in the hall, for
example), you could try "I don't think we've met ... my name is
<insert first name here>." But "hi" is fine the first time.
b. Don't wait until you see the woman of your imagined dreams before
you strike up a conversation. Try to talk to any woman about anything
without making a pest of yourself. The worst that can happen is that
she'll indicate she's not interested in talking. Think of that
reaction as her loss.
c. What can you talk about? Literally, anything. "Whew, it's cold
outside!". "Excuse me, what time have you got?" (possibly followed by
"that's a nice watch!", but only if you believe it (see 3c above)).
d. Who do you talk to? Anyone! It's practice, remember?

5. On the subject of being "aggressive" (which "nice guys", of course, don't
like to be) ...
a. Don't think of it as "aggressive". Think of it as "self-confident"
but not really cocky.
b. This quality (and I use that word in a positive sense) is one which
reflects your feeling (you have this feeling, don't you?) that you're
a man worth knowing. Forget about "nice guy". Unfortunately, "nice
guy" equates to wimp/dweeb in too many people's minds. Sure you're
nice - most people are. So what?
c. "Aggressive" in my definition isn't wolf whistles or cat calls. It's
not leering. It's not pawing a woman's body. It's taking some
initiative and not waiting for madam perfection to drop into your
lap (which you as a "nice guy" deserve by definition, of course).
It's showing some honest interest in something about a woman.

I could go on, but that's probably it for a start.

Comments? I'd be interested in comments from women as much as men.

Paul

From: 274-0106@mcimail.com (Paul J. Wilczynski) -------------------------------
Subject: More on Men and Women

Because of a flood of positive mail (well, a small flood) in response to my
recent posting about relationships between men and women, I thought I'd
pass along a few more random observations. Remember: advice is worth what
you pay for it, and this is based on my experience. Your mileage may vary.

Since I actually got more responses from women (saying that many of the points
applied equally to women, too), I'm going to divide this up into sections.

A. Both sexes ...

1. Remember that members of the opposite sex are people, just like you.
Women aren't orifaces, guys. Guys have feelings too, women.

2. One of the things that you'll come to find most attractive about a person
of a the opposite sex in terms of a relationship is that the person is
attracted to you. I have to give credit to a discussion in some newsgroup to
this idea, but it really hit me when I read it. Think about it: if a person
doesn't *want* to have a relationship with you, that's really not an
attractive quality about the person, is it? Ever take a course in marketing?
A market is defined in part by those people who want what you're selling. If
a person doesn't want what you're selling, the person isn't in your market!
Not everyone is going to want what you've got, great as it might be.

3. Smile. Not grin, but smile.

4. *Try* to see beyond what a person of the opposite sex looks like on the
outside. Of course, if you look at a person and have to suppress a gag
reflex, that's probably not the one you want to spend a lifetime with, as nice
a personality as (s)he may have.

Remember all those pithy little sayings like "beauty is only skin deep"? Well,
try to remember them. Some of the most beautiful women I have ever known
you wouldn't notice walking down the street. But when they smiled that
special smile at me and only me ... whew. If their Weight isn't quite
Proportional to their Height (WPTH), so what?

Of course, on the other side of the fence, the campus beauty queen is only
human, too, beneath all that lucious, sexy, curvy ... (oh, stop it, Paul!!!!)

5. Try as hard as you can not to get involved with people who are married,
no matter what they say about the state of their marriage, unless they're
separated and have filed papers for divorce.

6. Think about what you say before you say it, from the point of view
of hearing someone else say it to you.

My worst experience in this area: the first time I ever bedded a woman was
when I was about 23. (Late bloomer, obviously). She was about 10 years older
than me and previously married. Things were going well, but I was nervous.
Right at Beginning Moment, she looked up at me and said "Is this your first
time in saddle?" The situation turned out fine, fortunately (she took the
role of Teacher), but the phrasing of the question could have used some work.

B. For men ...

1. I hate to say this is this section, but I think it may apply somewhat more
to men then women. Keep yourself clean, ok? You may have a great mind and
a stunning personality, but if your potential sex partner has to hang
odor eaters around you, it's making the situation just that much more
difficult.

2. Forget about the idea of getting into bed with a woman with the intention
of both of you keeping your clothes on all night, unless that's the way you
want the relationship to be for the rest of all time, or unless you happen
to be into the sex game called "I'm a priest, you're a nun". If it's late
at night and you're a long way from home (or drunk) and she offers with the
caveat that no Private Parts will be exposed, politely decline the offer.
Tell her that she's much too attractive for you to be able to do that without
being overwhelmed by passion (assuming you believe it, of course), then
sleep on the floor or the couch.

3. Often (not always, but very often) when a woman tells you about a problem
she's having, she's not looking to you for the solution. What? That doesn't
make sense? See intro to section C. What she's often looking for is comfort
and reassurance and knowing that you're there.

That's why, when you analyze the situation and present her the options as you
seem them in decreasing order of probable success, she looks at you like
you're from Mars and/or bursts into tears and/or storms off saying "you
haven't heard a word I said!".

Note that this doesn't really apply to a women who comes to you the day before
a final saying she doesn't know the material. She's looking for your notes or
a course summary she can stick in her shoe for consultation, not your
comforting words that she'll ace the test in spite of having no concept of
what the course was about.

I understand, the nuances of this are rough. Stick with it.

C. For women ...

[This section's a little tough for me because, frankly, I don't really
understand women. No man will *ever* absolutely understand women, hundreds
of books oriented towards Understanding Women to the contrary. Oh, I
understand them *more* as time goes on, but it would take more than one or
two average male lifetimes (AMLs, as we call them) to Understand them.]

1. Whoever invented the game of "play hard to get"? Sheesh. Lots of guys
have enough lack of self-confidence without playing *this* game. I mean,
you don't have to come out and say you want to bear his children, but try
to be honest.

2. Men's emotional swings can be just as wide as yours, PMS notwithstanding.
Your smile can make a guy's day (or week), and your lack of attention can
bring him to the depths of despair.

3. Rejection is *very* hard for a lot of guys to take, so if you're going to
be doing any rejecting, give some thought to how you phrase it. Personally,
the rejection phrase I've found easiest to take is "I'm already involved with
someone". That wasn't a rejection of anything about *me*.

That's it for now,
Paul

From: shirriff@sprite.Berkeley.EDU (Ken Shirriff) -----------------------------
Subject: Nice Guys vs. Jerks (summary of a discussion)

Q: Why do women go out with jerks instead of "nice guys"?
This is one of the age-old Usenet questions that bores nearly anyone who has
been on the net more than six months.

There are several different meanings of "nice":
Being a friendly, decent human being: generally a good thing.
Being inoffensive, shy, boring, lacking self-confidence: almost always bad.
People labeled "nice guy" usually fall into the last category; people
can be nice without it being the defining facet of their personality.

There are several different meanings of "jerk":
Being an actual jerk: not attractive to most women.
Being self-confident, assertive, outgoing: generally a good thing, but the
nice guy may consider him a jerk.

The nice guy vs. jerk debate thrives on this ambiguity, as well as the false
division of people into nice guys or jerks. Women generally prefer
self-confident guys over shy, boring ones, but this does not mean they prefer
"jerks" over "nice guys".

Men labelled "nice guy" may be submissive about their emotional needs.
They would generally rather avoid an argument rather than let one develop.
They are not loud or aggressive, and generally despise men who are, usually
on the grounds that such men are insensitive and heedless of hurt they do
to others. "Nice guys" face several impediments to relationships: they lose
out in competition to assertive men and they appear to lack self-confidence.
(Andrew Bettison)

The canonical scenario is the woman always tells the nice guy about what a jerk
her boyfriends are, but never goes out with nice guy. The nice guy remains
single and frustrated (also known as LJBF: "let's just be friends").
a) The woman probably doesn't need to discuss her boyfriend when everything is
fine, so the nice guy may form a unjustly negative image of the boyfriend.
b) A barrier to a relationship with the nice guy is "don't sleep with friends".
c) The interesting question in this scenario is why does the nice guy stick
around with this woman who is draining his emotional support when he could
find someone else. Note the symmetry that he is attracted to this "jerk" woman
instead of finding a "nice woman".

Being fun and interesting is the quality that gets you friends.
Being nice is the quality that helps you keep the friends.
Being sexy, flirtatious, and aggressive at the right moment gets you in bed
with the woman you want. (strake)

It is not true that women, in general, prefer assholes.
Women, in general, prefer guys with self-confidence.
Unfortunately, assholes are generally pretty self-confident. (slf)

"Being *nice* is not enough." Okay, fine, you're *nice*.
But you also need to be *interesting*. (Pooh)

Maybe the cause-and-effect are backwards; guys who attract lots of women are
jerks because they don't have to be nice.

Some women say "you're too nice to go out with" as a "polite" way of saying
"I don't want to go out with you".

Clearly some women do go out with jerks (e.g. codependency, women who
want extra excitement, women who want to "rescue" the jerk).
However, lots of women do go out with nice guys; after all, most nice guys
end up in relationships, married, etc. Besides, why would you _want_ to go
out with a woman who is attracted to jerks.

From: dabbott@leon.atnf.csiro.au (David Abbott) -------------------------------
Subject: Re: Helpful Hints to NicePeople(tm)

Karen Ronan <ronan@mendel.berkeley.edu> writes...
>This won't be very thorough, but here are some hints to "nice people" on
>how to stop others from taking advantage:
>
>- Give serious thought to how you feel when you have been taken advantage
>of: e.g. hurt, betrayed, disappointed, scared, embarrassed, angry. Think
>about exactly what behavior of your friend triggered exactly which
>reaction in you.
>
>- Think about whether this reaction is entirely justified, partly
>justified, possibly an overreaction, or what. Think about whether the
>reaction is the same one you've been feeling since childhood in similar
>situations. Think about whether you want to have this reaction for the
>rest of your life, or whether you are ready to change the reaction.
>(Sometimes you will still want to have that reaction.)
>
>- Think about whether you maintain your emotional boundaries or whether
>you allow others to invade your emotional boundaries. If you let them
>invade your boundaries, what are you willing to do to prevent this in the
>future? Are you willing to say "No"? Are you willing to say, "I'm
>angry"? Are you willing to say, "I'm finding it hard to tolerate what
>you did, and I'm very hurt"? Even if it means the other person will get
>defensive and angry with you? Are you willing to stand up for yourself
>because your feelings are important ?
>
>- Think specifically about what you /can/ tolerate as opposed to what you
>/actually/ tolerate. Give yourself permission to stop tolerating what is
>intolerable.
>
>- Permit yourself to refuse people access to you if they're incapable of
>treating you respectfully.
>
>- Respect yourself and respect others. Believe that others are doing the
>best that they can, even if they are operating at a very low level.
>People don't have the perception that you do. People don't know what you
>are feeling or thinking and are unconscious of hurting you.
>
>- Think of communicating your feelings as giving information to someone,
>not as imposing demands on them.
>
>Other hints welcome.
>
>Karen

- Keep a diary of everything hurtful or enjoyable, and read each entry
a week later. You soon realise if you are an oversensitive bastard.

David. [...]

#4# Kissing and hugging: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-

From: jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) -----------------------------------

>Alright guys...Here's the situation. I am not desperate, just looking for
>a variety of answers to work with on this one. Say you take a girl out
>and you get back to her apartment and it's time to say goodnight. What
>should you do to get the kiss started and also, under what circumstances
>would you throw a girl a nice kiss. Just looking for some ways I haven't
>used and/or considered. Thanks...

Well, there are many ways to do it, most dependent on your style.
You could avoid kissing altogether: a small momento to remember
the occasion with, a nice bow with a flourish, a good handshake,
a wave goodbye, a gentle caress of her cheek. You could make it
a neutral kiss: throw her a kiss, kiss her hand, kiss her cheek,
kiss your finger and touch it to her lips. And of course,
there's the KISS kiss... :-)

Tell her (if you haven't already) how much you enjoyed the
evening, and ask if she'd like to go out again. DO NOT tell her
you're going to call her just to have something to say. Many men
do this and it drives women nuts because the men never do call.
If you can, tentatively schedule your next date. If you can't do
that, at least let her know you'd like to go out again.

One good way to end things is by giving her a big hug. I don't
know of too many people that refuse a nice hug. If you hugging
isn't up to par, practice a bit, first. You'll find lots of
people willing to help you practice. :-) A good hug is firmly
snug, but not crushing, requires a relaxed holding of the other
person, (like you would hold them if you were trying to comfort
them), and often includes some small movement, like rocking from
side to side. Hugs last anywhere from one second to one minute,
depending on how the people feel.

After you give her a hug, you can look her in the face while
remaining embraced. Stare into her eyes for a moment as you
smile. If she pulls back, let her go, but keep smiling. If she
doesn't, then just hold her. If she looks down at your mouth, or
closes her eyes, this means she's expecting a kiss. Try being as
delicate as possible... That's usually a good way to kiss for
the first time. The memory of it will be like a butterfly, light
and beautiful....

It's all fairly straightforward... Anybody else have any nifty
ideas?

-Nick

From: kika.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu -------------------------------------------

[...]
Kissing.. what a great topic and one of my favorite pastimes.. :)
I can relate to a certain extent with your friend. I consider
kissing to be an artform. The more creative the kissing, the
more artistic and pleasurable to the palette. (pun intended)
Men who french kiss during the entire exchange turn me off
completely.

Slow sensual and *mutual* touching, tasting, nibbling, licking,
and variations thereof, combine to make the best kissing IMHO.
The way a man kisses, tells me a great deal about how good of
a lover he would be. Which bring me to another point.. men
that just clamp their lips on yours and never move their lips
or change the angle of the kiss, lose out on the whole rhythm
and motion of a kiss. It should be something dynamic and
explorative, but not explorative in the way that some jam
their tongues in your mouth as though they were searching
for fillings or something! :)

From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) --------------------------------------
Subject: First kiss: Are glasses a problem?

[...]
If she resists, is scared, or feels guilty, she's not ready to be
kissed. If your gentle attempt to kiss her doesn't meet with shy
acceptance, then she's not ready--and you should stop. If that
happens, tell her you understand, and ask if you can try again in a
few days or a few weeks.

> But, what embarrassing it is, if our glasses stop my way just on
> the critical moment....

From experience, glasses don't get in the way very much at all. If
only one party is wearing glasses, it's hardly ever a problem. If
they both are, kissing can still be done quite easily.

However, if you're worried about it, you might try this (and it will
give her a chance to decide if she's just a little timid or if she
wants you to stop):
Reach over and gently take off her glasses, saying softly, "I'd
like to kiss you"
(optional: take off your glasses)
Then kiss her gently

> ps. Note that the important keyword : First Time.

IMHE, first kisses don't tend to be as passionate as those shown in
the movies--you can do it with glasses on. If they get in the way,
one or both of you will pull back long enough to take them off.

From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania) --------------------------

When I first kissed my first girlfriend, our glasses bumped and clicked,
we both laughed took them off, and we kissed, not picture perfect
romance, but it was a good tension breaker, we we're both alot more
relaxed that way.

#5# Snuggling and sleeping: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}--

Subject: How to hold your SO all night long
From: RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu ----------------------------------------------------

[...]
I personally have always preferred lying on my back with my arms around her,
her head on my chest, legs intertwined. Since the last two gf's slept on their
sides/chests, they used my chest as a pillow. I gotta say, to whoever says
that sleeping with you arms around your SO is torture, I never found that to
be the case. I always got my best sleep when I was with someone else (and
that ISN'T because of being worn out...just the comfort factor). The only probl
em I ever ran into was that my last girlfriend was a late riser, And I tend to
be a bit of an early bird, especially when I get a deep sleep...and, when she
was laying on top/side, it was REAL tough to move at all without waking her...

Some Simple Observations
From My Point Of View

Redneck!

From: val@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Foxy Lady) ----------------------------------

[...]
There's nothing I love more than to fall asleep in my lover's arms,
waking up in the morning, still cuddling, is something I dream about.
But, alas! My SO can't sleep when I'm in the same bed as him - even
if I'm not in contact with him!

I spend the whole night restraining myself from touching him, and he
sleeps badly just because I'm there.

When I'm in his arms I feel so secure. I become so relaxed, I sleep
really well. I just wish he could relax with me too.

Valerie.

From: Pamela Kay <szafrans@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> ----------------------------

My spouse and I have reached a really great compromise (I think, weve
been together for 4 years...seems like yesterday..with 3 kids and one
on the way....it feels like a 100 years sometimes :)

We lay in the spoon position for a while and when he starts to drift off
(which is very quickly when he horizontal :), I roll over and we hold
hands. There are times when I wake up in the middle of the night and
we are still holding hands. Many nights we also intertwine our feet.
Close enough to touch, far enough to sleep comfortably.

Mrs. B

From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!) ------------------------------

[...] yes i like to have my fiance sleep with his head on my chest
and vice versa also. I do not really find it uncomfortable to sleep next
to my fiance in this manner. I think perhaps i can find it more comfortable
because i have some extra padding who know :) [not fat just extra padding :)]
[...]

-kimberli k roan

From: kirk@duke.cs.duke.edu (Kirk Franklin) -----------------------------------

I like sleeping side by side, like spoons, or lying on my back and having
the other person's head on my chest.

>* separate beds in separate rooms (probably the best if one or both are
> snoring too loud, or on those nasty days when you hate each other)

This is why God invented couches. It's also very healthy to recognize that
there will be times someone will be sleeping there.

I also believe in each person using their own sheets, to eliminate the
problem of hogging the sheets. It's no fun to get in trouble for something
you did while you were asleep...or while they're asleep. A former
girlfriend once had a dream about me doing something she didn't like, and I
was in trouble all the next day.

No worries,

Scooter Corleone

From: todd@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu (Todd W. Thompson) ---------------------------

aatresa@lims04.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
[...]
>I have never been more uncomfortable than when someone is trying to hold me
>while I sleep. I can't turn over, I've got someone either breathing or
>snoring in my ear, and it's just darned unpleasant. Sorry, guys. :)
>
>Teresa

YAY! Someone, and someone of the opposite sex, who agrees with me! I'm one
of those people who HAS to roll around a lot and kick covers and flip
pillows over (it's colder on the other side, you see) and so on. And it used
to annoy the heck out of my girlfriend. And now I find someone else who's
like me in this respect! ALRIGHT!

Now all I have to do is find one who'll date me.. :)

Todd

From: michael@gandalf.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Haardt) --------------

[...]
If you can't find sleep, try throwing pillows in your faces.
You soon will get exhausted enough... :-)

It is one of the most wonderful things to look at your SO's face, when
she awakes and there is nothing comparable to spend hours in the bed,
just hugging and kissing.

Michael

From: <RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu> --------------------------------------------------

As an answer to the "too hot" remark...less covers always seemed (Yes, past
tense..) to do the trick for me 'n mine. I have found that EVERY female
I have slept with (I am not saying had sex with...that limits the generality
quite a bit...and I am not saying that this is true for all women...) have
slept better with me holding them than they did without me holding them. But
my roommate and his girlfriend DON'T "cuddle up" when they go to sleep...
neither one "feels comfortable" that way. So they are pretty much back to
back, with hands held between them. I guess you just have to find a way
that both people can enjoy, and also sleep comfortably...try different ways,
and then go to what "feels best"....
[...]

From: keo@netcom.com (Kyle Elisabeth Overstreet) ------------------------------
Subject: waking up

[...] Now that we have been together as long as we have, I think it's fun
that he gets these erections in his sleep, because he wakes up very surpised
to find he's having sex!-- PLEASE don't try this with a new partner until
you find out how he feels about it! This is one way to rape a man-- and
I go slowly with him... and if he says no-- even in his sleep-- I stop.
Most of the time, this is his favorite wake up call, though

#6# Gifts: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-

From: wong@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (WONG Peter Chih Chen) --------------------
Subject: Teddy Bears

A way to deliver your gift: I strapped the first one I gave her
into the passenger seat of my car, and I told her I was bringing
a friend to meet her but to be cautious because he's very shy
and a lot younger. So she approached the car very timidly when I
picked her up and she got confused when she couldn't see anyone
as we approached the car. When I opened the door and introduced
her, her reaction was wonderful.

--Peter

From: mlb@cisco.com (Marcia Bednarcyk) ----------------------------------------

Ah, holiday and birthday gifts. They're fraught with such meaning, which makes
getting the "perfect" thing at the right time so "important". I use quotes
deliberately, because we tend to blow these things up way out of proportion.

Here are my list of suggestions for gift giving. Take them as you will, they
seem to work ok for me. BTW, I'm assuming at this point you've decided that
you would like to give your SO a gift for whatever reason :-).

1. Reduce the importance of the occasion, and give up the quest for the
"perfect" gift. This is the hardest part, I know, because you want the
person to be delighted with the gift. Remind yourself that if s/he isn't
delighted, it's not the end of the world. (If it is, you have more problems
than a gift will solve.) Remember: panic makes it harder to choose a
gift :-).

2. Start thinking about gifts early. This gives you time to think about what
you want to get, your price range, and if you happen to see the "perfect"
thing you can get it when you see it.

3. Here's the real work: *observe* your SO. What does s/he like that s/he
doesn't have? What would make his/her life easier? If you're at a friend's
house, does s/he spend the whole time playing with/admiring/gushing over
something? Is there something that consistently catches his/her eye when
you're shopping together? Does s/he keep mentioning a certain thing?

This is the real secret, since it allows you to find out what s/he really
likes. And it is hard, since it requires you to listen, observe, and
remember without taking notes. I got into this habit early, since I have
a few people I like to give things to who are impossible to buy for. But I
get ideas all year long by watching and listening, and generally I do
pretty well.

For example, 2 years ago I saw the books of the Monty Python scripts and
got them for a dyed in the wool Monty Python friend who I knew didn't know
they were out. He loved them :-). And last year I was given a watch that
I have loved for ages but never got around to getting for myself for
various reasons.

4. Help out your SO. If they've ever lamented that you're difficult to get
things for, drop a few hints. Mention you like something, or something
else would be really useful. Miss Manners may frown, but in the past I
have been so grateful for any help.

5. If you're really, really stuck, ask your SO what s/he would like. Most
common answer is "You don't have to get me anything", which, of course,
you don't listen to at all. Better to ask "What have been your favorite
presents" or "What do you think of <something>?" or anything to get the
conversational ball rolling. Hopefully you can pick up the clues there.

6. If all else fails, there's always a romantic dinner/picnic, flowers, or
candy. Assuming your SO likes those kinds of things ;-).

What it all comes down to really is knowing your SO, what s/he likes, and
tailoring the gift within your time and budget constraints to those likes.

From: mlhoward@unix.amherst.edu (Meredith Howard) -----------------------------
Subject: Romantic Care Package

> >Hello all!
> > I'm a college sophmore and my boyfriend and I go to separate
> >schools. ONe of the things we do to keep the romance going is to send
> >each other romantic care packages every now and then. The thing is,
> >I am starting to run out of ideas. In the past we have sent each other
> >romantic music mixes, candy, stuffed animals, red ribbons for tying
> >letters togehter, flowers, even pizza on one occasion. ANd lots of
> >cards. If anyone has more ideas for relatively inexpensive but romantic
> >things I could send my sweety, I would very much appreciate it. I have
> >great faith in the ability of this group's readers to come up with some
> >wonderful suggestions. :)
> > Thanks! Meredith
> >

Well, I got some awesome responses alright. I think it's only
fair that I post them for everyone to share. I think I've got everything
everyone mailed to me, but if I forgot one please post the addition- they
were all neat.
1. Have a friend take lots of pictures of you doing fun things while you and
your SO are apart. Then, find some pictures of your SO and insert him/her
into all the ones of you having fun.
2. Make a tape of yourself talking, singing, or telling a favorite bedtime
story. By the way, does anyone have any suggestions for good bedtime
stories? :)
3. Get access to a cool graphics program and a scanner, and make an
official certificate saying "World's Best Boyfriend/Girlfriend", with
your SO's pictureon it.
4. Make something childishly creative, using Elmer's glue and construction
paper.
5. Send a lock of your hair, esp. if it's in a plastic envelope that they
can carry in their wallet.
6. Send a lipstick imprint of your lips, lamenated, that they could keep with
them.
7. Send the most romantic candy- hershey's kisses, and it's new complement,
hershey's hugs.
8. Take pictures of you doing really ordinary things that will make your SO
think of all the little things that are so nice about being together. Even
stuff like brushing your teeth is good.
9. Make a little book complete with illustrations of what you have been doing
over the past week.

I think these were all great because they are all very personal,
and most are things that involve time and energy, but not necessarily a lot of
money. They are also the kind of things that you would want to keep and
remember for a long time. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
---
Meredith

#7# What do women want? @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--

From: Karen Ronan <ronan@mendel.berkeley.edu> ---------------------------------
Subject: Re: Women are all the same...

>Why do women have time for everything and everyone else but me?

Are you interesting to talk to? Are you clean, well-groomed? Do you
have a sense of humor? Do you listen to people? Do you project some
self-confidence? Do you have ideas for places to go with a woman? Do
you have any flair for conversation? Do you have decent social skills?
Are you fairly intelligent, well read, passionate about something? Do
you show any emotions?

Just a few things that I look for in potential mates.

Good luck,
Karen

From: fsquared@eff.org (Fawn Fitter) -----------------------------------------
Subject: Re: What do you want to know about a potential SO?

mmcohen@cats.ucsc.edu (Michael M Cohen) writes:

>A question for all you romantics: When you are talking with
>a potential SO, what are the questions you want answered
>before deciding that you want to enter a relationship?

Before I get involved with him, or before we take the step that leads from
casual dating to serious one-on-one exploration of whether we could have a
future together?

If the former, the list is pretty short:
- is he single?
- does he smoke, use drugs, or drink to excess?
- is he HIV-negative?
- does he have children from a previous relationship?
- is he politically progressive?
- is he attractive -- not handsome, necessarily, but not butt-ugly (a technical
term, mind you!) either?
- does he treat women with the same respect he gives to men?
- how's his sense of humor?

If the latter, tack on these things, too:
- do we have any recreational interests in common?
- is he good in bed?
- is he curious about and interested in my work?
- do we aspire to the same kind of lifestyle?
- is he a "city person," or does he prefer the suburban or rural life?
- how does he feel about his family?
- how does he feel about my family?
- is he interested in and open to personal change?
- what are his spiritual/religious beliefs, and do they conflict with mine?
- can he fight fair, or does he have a temper?
- are we friends as well as lovers?
- is he responsible?
- how good is he at expressing his feelings?

and so on, and so on. I always wonder how I managed to survive in the years
before I started choosing my relationships with as much attention as I give
to choosing a new car...

From: weaver@weitek.COM (Michael Gordon Weaver) -------------------------------
Subject: Re: What do women find attractive in men?

>Subject line says it all. I'm perpetually perplexed about this. Sorry if it's
>FAQ.

As a man, I cannot speak for women. But I would like to comment.
I think that a better question is 'what can I do to be more attractive
to women'. (If you really want to be able to predict who will be considered
more attractive by some group of women, then you can stop reading now).

If you want to be more attractive to women, I think the first thing you
have to realize is that you only make small changes in yourself. You
can't make yourself taller, shorter or change your basic personality.
Don't waste time worrying about things you can't change.

Another important point is that people pay more attention to
attitude and personality than to appearance. You should try to
be well groomed and keep in shape, of course. But if you are going
to make a good impression, you are going to have to do it by projecting
your personality, not by looking good.

You want women to be interested in you, not impressed. You might get
some attention by doing something impressive, but usually this
attention is short-lived. The most effective way to get someone
interested in you is to show an interest in them. If you adopt an
attitude that is accepting and open, and show that you are interested
in the other person (by asking questions, and paying attention to her
answers), you will seem very interesting. Avoid speaking negatively.
When someone hears you say negative things, they unconsciously fear
that you will speak of them negatively. Try to get her to speak about
herself. People have a great need to express themselves, and everyone
needs someone to listen to them.

Paying attention to someone and being a good listener will help make
the other person interested in you, but if that is all you
do, you will be taken for granted. To keep this from happening, you
need to demonstrate some independence. Show that you have a life of
your own. While you should keep the focus on her, when she talks about
something in her life, you can briefly mention something in your life
that is similar. If you do a variety of things in your life, it should
be easy to appear independent. On the other hand, if you act like you
are never too busy to drop everything to see her, and that as far as
you are concerned there are no other women in the world, you will
be seen as dependent. Dependency is unattractive.

Peace,
Michael.

From: dobbs@ast.saic.com (Lynn Bruce Dobbs) -----------------------------------
Subject: Re: What do women find attractive in men?

[...]
My female best buddy told me that she didn't like to answer this
question because her view of attractiveness varied with every man
she knows.

She and I agree that attractiveness is not a receipe to follow.
Besides the basics of hygene and curtesy (and not always those)
little can be said that translates to "ultimate truth" for any
given woman about any given man. I maintain that the same holds
true for men.

Lynn 'a guess based on personal experience and a very close
friend who hasn't lied to be yet :-)'

From: ez040933@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Melissa Hynes) -----------------------------
Subject: Re: The Six C's of Getting a Date (for men)

Boy oh boy, do you have a twisted sense of what women want!
The "perfect" guy you outlined sounds like a perfect horror.

: : CASH: One of the first things you need,

Cash is handy if you want to go anywhere, but most wealthy guys are a lot
more arrogant, domineering, and all-around stuck up jerks than your
average guy.

: : CAR: The fancier, the better. It shows

A guy with a fancy car at this age means that either A. his folks bought it
for him, which means he's used to having everything handed to him, or B.
He has absolutely no maturity in the way he spends his money. I had an
ex who had a VERY nice car, he focused all his time and energy and money
on it and got kicked out of his apartment for spending the rent money on
a new paint job.

: : CAREER: Will impress the woman, and also

Ah yes,all women everywhere wants a type A overachiever who spends all
his time in his career and never saying a word to us except to hand us
cash. Pretty fuckin shallow. Sounds exactly like my dad as a matter of
fact.

: : CASTLE: If you don't own a house, or have

According to whom?? If a guy OWNS A HOUSE at this stage in life, it
falls into the same guidelines as the car...no normal guy should have
that much money yet unless he's a bank robber.

: : COMBAT: You must show the woman that you
: : are willing and able to be the kind
: : of manipulative and controlling
: : male that is able to fight and

Oh no. No no no no NO NO! "Manipultive and controlling" guys are the
most psychologically screwed up people there are! Ever see "Sleeping
With the Enemy"?! If a guy started trying to control my life and play
with my mind, I'd run away as fast as I possibly could!!

: : COCK: It doesn't hurt to have a BIG one! Or

You're dead wrong on this one. IT DOES HURT!!! Trust me, I experienced
it once and never again!!! Not all women are built like Mason jars. IT
DOES HURT LIKE HELL!!!

And sir, if you have all of these qualities accomplished, I wish you the
best of luck in your philosophy, and pray to the gods that I never meet you.

#8# Dating: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}

From: PAISLEY@auvm.american.edu -----------------------------------------------
Subject: Dating skills for women

[...]
Again, I'm not working from any kind of list, but here's my input
from a guy's point of view--these are the things I would like to
expect from a date:

1. Appreciate your date. Remember that he asked you out because he likes
you, and wants to get to know you better. And you probably think roughly
the same of him or you wouldn't have agreed to go out with him. Keep this
in mind.

2. Since one of the reasons he asked you out was to get to know you better,
LET HIM. The most frustrating date I ever had was when, after the date, I
didn't know any more about the girl or how she felt about me. On a date,
let some of yourself out. You don't have to tell him your life story, but
some insight into who you are would really be nice.

3. Remember his feelings. Hopefully, he has given some thought to make the
date something you will enjoy, but if he hasn't, don't let that ruin things
automatically. First of all, he may just be uncreative. Or, you might just
find out that it wasn't as bad as you originally thought.

4. Be understanding. Chances are, he is just as nervous as you are, and so
he may say or do some really stupid things. Try to be patient, unless he
REALLY screws up.

5. All the ideas about making your date feel special still apply. Look
at him when you talk, listen to what he says, make him feel like he really
matters to you.

6. Remember your manners. Again, this sounds really silly, but little things
like saying thank-you for dinner mean a lot. Well, it's not so much that
they mean a lot, but THEIR OMISSION means a hell of a lot, and in a bad way.
There is not much worse that to take all the time, money and effort to take
someone out and not even get a thank-you out of it. It's so little and it can
mean so much.

Well, that's all I can think of right now, just try to remember these, along
with basic common sense, and above all else, ENJOY YOURSELF!!!!

From: userisra@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca (Mark Israel) ------------------------------
Subject: Dating skills for women

1. Be on time. Unpunctuality is a fault with *no* redeeming features.
(However, if your date is late, don't let it spoil the evening --
remain pleasant!)

2. Wear something that makes you feel pretty -- an outfit that's proved
itself, with comfortable shoes.

3. Tell yourself you're not nervous, just excited.

4. Read a newspaper or watch a news program that day so you'll have
something to talk about and sound as if you know what's happening in
the world.

5. If you can begin with the exchange of warm relaxed smiles, you have
a lot going for you.

6. Be open -- to him, his plans, and the shape the evening takes.

7. Use every opportunity to be observant, sensitive, perceptive, and
appreciative of what your date does or may have done.

8. If something embarrassing happens, "confess" so that you can both
laugh over it.

9. If you're having a good time, let him know it.

10. Call him because you've just heard something that he'd love to know
about, a joke on a favourite subject, or a piece of news relating to
one of his heroes. He will feel that you two are really on the same
beam, and it will encourage him to think of you when *he* has news
he wants to share with someone.

11. Be busy. Projects of your own make for much more interesting
discussion than last night's TV program.

12. Caring about each other more than petty victories is the essence of
positive loving. Equality is not measured by a single act.

From: jed189@ecs.soton.ac.uk (JE Dixon) ---------------------------------------
Subject: Dating skills for men

1) Don't lie. Never lie. NEVER. Its OK for one night. You lie thru
your teeth to be interesting. Great ! You get the second date. Now you
have to be consistent with all the lies you told on your first date.
Tricky. Five dates later you have to revise for two days before each
date.

2) Don't pretend to be someone you're not. Your date might like this
other person. She'll call this other person, she'll come to see this
other person, she might even sleep with this other person. But when
she says F*** YOU, she'll be saying it to you not the other person.

3) Never surprise your date with a movie, meal etc on the first date.
Not until you've got some vague idea of her likes and dislikes.
Putting a poor unsuspecting girl thru 'Meatslayer And The Wartoids
From The Planet SoftPorn' is not a good idea.

4) A sense of humour (refined if possible) is your best ally. Women
like someone that makes them laugh.

5) Clean nails. VITAL.

6) Don't lie to anyone else about the date and what happened. It
always goes horribly wrong.

ADVANCED TIPS:

7) Never take your pants off before your socks.

8) Roll over, go to sleep. WRONG. Cuddle, kiss, roll over, go to
sleep. RIGHT.

Practice makes slightly better, but never perfect.
You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince(ss).

Good Luck!

From: mars@eddie.mit.edu (Anita Hsiung) ---------------------------------------
Subject: First dates

josh@viewlogic.com (Josh Marantz) writes:
>Do other people have a great deal of trouble with first dates, or is
>it just me? I seem to have problems getting some sort of spark going
>over dinner, even though the conversation is usually pretty good.

I usually have fantastic first dates. (After that, they become
normal.) First of all, by definition, first dates are when you are
excited, interested in getting to know the other person, your hormones
are working overtime, your adrenalin is pumping. It's almost, but not
quite, like opening night of your show, but that's another matter.

Anyway, first dates, I "test" my date on body language (I love reading
on that stuff and trying things out on people), you know, how you
"divide" the table up, is the other person as nervous as you are, what
kind of impression are you giving, all in good fun, of course!
There's always lots to talk about, after all, you don't really know
anything about the other person. What do they do? Personal hobbies?
Do they sing in their car? Anything's fair game!

>What do you think is a good first date activity? Maybe at dinner
>there's too much pressure on intelligent conversation, and there
>should be more of an emphasis on distraction?

Dinner is great! There is nothing like face-to-face to gauge a
potential SO. After all, you may be spending a lot of time talking to
this person, and you want to know how you react to each other. You
already know how people react at movies or fairs or other impersonal
stuff like that. But, pressure. I hate it, but I thrive on it!

>While I'm at it, how do people tend to meet their dates?

Well, when you're out of school, it's work, clients (make sure he/she
isn't in charge of your contract!), things you do after work (theatre,
volunteer work), NetNews, old high school chums' parties.

-- Anita --

From: mars@eddie.mit.edu (Anita Hsiung) ---------------------------------------
Subject: First dates

angelok@misg.csd.harris.com (Angelo the Postmaster ) writes:
> As far as body language goes... are you looking for an "OUCH"
> or a "AHH" when you pinch him? *smile*

Actually, to tell the truth, SHOULDERS. Y'know, when you're walking
along and you're not at the hand-holding stage, you kind of bump
shoulders and see how he reacts. Or if you're sitting down together
at a comedy club or a movie, again, you touch shoulders. There's a
whole world of language with them body parts! You can do a touch-n-go
with the shoulder, a longer caress, a friendly contact when he's
explaining a joke that went over your head, almost snuggling into his
shoulder when you lean over to ask him a question...

-- Anita --

From: chrisc@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org (Chris Carstens) ---------------------------
Subject: First Date Ideas (summary of replies to a survey)

[...] This is 1992. What is a fun thing to do on a first date? Is it
still dinner and a movie, or are there other things that work well?
[...]

In the fitness spirit...anything outdoors is good. Taking a walk, or
cycling. You can get to know someone without having to focus 100% on them.
Sometimes the complete focus is uncomfortable.

-- Teresa

Okay, here's a few:

Bowling. Asked her outta the blue. Little did I know she was a SERIOUS
bowler, and really beat me bad. I work with her, so asking her wasn't a
problem. Patching up my male ego afterwards was, however.. :)

Horseback Riding. Happens I asked her out for a movie. She has horses,
wanted to go riding instead. I hadn't ridden in years, so we took it easy.
Then, my horse acted up, and threw me...being injury prone, I should have
expected it! The sympathy was nice, though I could have done without the
pain..:)..we are still going out regularly, riding in addition to more
"Traditional" dates, like movies. I guess a "memorable date" like this
one tends to help cement a relationship...it has been several months now.

Dancing in Strange Places. I was eating dinner alone a few years back, it
was late and I was the only person in my end of the restaurant. My waitress
was very nice, very pretty, very funny. Since I was her only customer, we
talked a lot through the course of the evening. The everplaying tape they
use in restaurants had another song come on, and I asked her to dance.
She blushed prettily, we danced for a short time. I hung around until she
got off work (I ate more that night than I have in my life, just so I
didn't have to leave) and we went driving around. Dated her for over a
year.

Redneck! The Official Lumberjack
and Woodgatherer of the RFA

My vote goes for lighting up the barbeque, doing up a rack of ribs and sitting
on the porch playing guitar after the sun sets. But that's just me - I'm
looking for the woman who wants to do the same!

- Pat

Well, I'm a college student and Ice Skating seems to be a pretty big
option, next to dinner and a movie.

Erich

I find miniature golf tobe a great first date, and evening at the symphony
& dinner to be good, an afternoon at Kennywood or the conservancy also
works well.

John

What are fun things to do on a first date? Well, it seems to
me that the key ingredients are 1) Something enjoyable (fun
as you say) for both people, and 2) Something where both people
will have the largest possible chance to talk and get to know
each other.

Exactly what is best depends, I think, on the circumstances
* How the people met, and
* What their interests are

I also think the word 'date' has to be thought about very carefully.
Does it refer to *any* occasion where two people decide to do something
together, or does it have the stronger connotation of a get-together
in circumstances of 'courting' or 'actively looking for an so' (for one
or both people).

Some specific points in answer to your question:

1) Dinner and a movie still works well, but it works a lot better
if you know the other person beforehand (i.e. s/he is a casual
acquaintance, co-worker, person you met in a group activity etc.).
If you are on a blind or near-blind first date, I have found dinner
alone to be best -- you can sit and talk and then perhaps decide
what to do on the second date.

One big risk with movies is compatibility of interests. I will
go to just about anything that gets a reasonable critical review,
but I have too-often found that women I have dated have had a much
narrower tolerance. A first date movie where there is a lot of violence
or sexual explicitness can make things uneasy.

2) Looking back the only things I have done on *first* dates were
* Simply dropping by to have some tea (I think this counts as a date -
we stayed and chatted for hours)
* Meeting at a cafe & nothing more (once)
* Dinner only (several times)
* Dinner & movie & talking afterwards in the car or at her place
(several times)
* Dinner followed by a play (several times)
* Going skiiing, followed by a mid-afternoon lunch (once)
* Going to a formal *do* (once)
* Going to help out at a soup kitchen! (once)

3) Some of the funnest dates (non-first) I have been on were:
* Going to an exhibition, then going out to eat, then going
to my place to watch some TV, then doing more talking. The
key here was that we were able to communicate all the time
(discussing the exhibit, second-guessing what was happening
on TV). At a movie you can enjoy yourself, but you can
enjoy yourself just as well alone.
* Driving to an area of natural beauty, stopping off along the
way to check out the goings on in several small towns.
Stopping at a cafe on the way back and exploring some
backroads.

I think that activities like these could have been used as first
dates too).

- Tim
--

my first date with my wife: we went to hear a couple of reggae bands.
we both enjoyed it. i knew the next day that I was going to marry her.
that was five years ago next month, so it may not apply to 92. also,
we were late 20s. can't get any better than that!

-- clint

1. Race cars at Malibu Grand Prix.
2. Shooting range.
3. Video arcade.
4. Cooking dinner together.
5. Going to a "coffee house".

Then there is the "California version".

1. Tatoos.
2. Piercings.
3. Activist rally.

Tee hee. Only kidding!

rf

a racquetball game!!! people (specially women) these days are a little
apprehensive about dinner and movie on a first date. doing something in
the gym, one can be himself/herself and not have to pretend to be
someone else. i've met a lot of women this way. if the game is fun, i
usually invite her to a soda afterwards or if i really like her i
squeeze fresh oranges for her.

bip

One of the first things my current SO and did after having a lunch or two
is go to a boat show during a Sunday afternoon. It was really fun and
there was no preassure. We spent almost the whole day together at the boat
show and walking downtown.

barry

I always like the walk by a lake or river approach. Simple, romantic,
non-threatining. the movie/dinner idea still works but here (York, PA)
dinner is 10-15 (for fast food) 25+ for real food and a movie runs
5.50 each plus the popcorn ($4), and soda ($3)

hope this helps..
Jamie

You might think I am a little young to offer advice(21) but I have some
ideas. I thinking dinner is part of a good first date but what happens
after that is up to the people. I have gone dancing which is my absolute
favorite because it gives you a chance to get to know the person. I have
also gone to a musical, minature golfing, go carting, walks, going
somewhere and cuddling and, of course seeing a movie. I hope I have given
you some good responses.

mike

Picnics, on a beach or in a park ( preferably near the water ), are
always fun. Skiing is also an idea.

Dan "Fish" McMillen

My wife and I went out to eat after church for our first date. Later
that day we went to a Christian rock concert (Greg X. Volz) with mutual
friends. We had a REALLY enjoyable time. It was very relaxed, with no
pressure what so ever. We both think that the first few dates are more
enjoyable and relaxed when you are with mutual friends.

Andy & Deb

A picnic is still one of the best first (or subsequent) dates.
You look at each other and talk in a very non-threatening en-
vironment, there's lots to observe, no distractions unless you
want them to be distracting, no pressure on either for decisions
or actions they're not ready for or don't want at all with the
other person. Even ants can't ruin a good picnic.

BDW

I met my boyfriend through the personals. I placed an "ad" on alt.personals
in the newsgroups and he responded. About 250 guys responded to that one
ad. Steve, my boyfriend, and I talked constantly on the computer..than he
flew down to see me. He lives in Illinois and I live in North Carolina.
Since then, we have seen each other as much as possible, he has applied to
transfer schools to be with me, and we are always on the computer with each
other as much as possible. Also the phone when we can afford it. If he
gets accepted to attend school with me, we have tentively made plans to get
married this summer.

Lisa

That's one thing that really bothers me. These days, date seems to be a
four-letter word (meaning foul). There are too many hopes IMHO pinned on
going out with someone. A first date is just a meeting...expectations of
happily ever after don't belong.

Teresa

#9# Sensitivity training: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,--

From: jad@atux01.att.com (Jessica Danielson) ----------------------------------

This article was built from responses from members of alt.romance
in response to my request for "sensitivity training." I have tried
to organize the responses and have also attempted to summarize.
[...]

WHAT IS SENSITIVITY?

Respondents' outlook on what sensitivity is varied considerably.
Some believed that sensitivity is in fact a sort of native talent.

I think it has a lot to do with personality traits that
you are born with. Some of my friends really do care
for people, but have a hard time "reading" them.

Others believed that sensitivity is something which is not so much
developed, as allowed to exist.

It's called "empathy", and it's a trait that isn't so
much developed as allowed to exist. Many things in our
modern world tend to cause us to believe that we
shouldn't empathize.

WHAT CAUSES INSENSITIVITY?

What is responsible for sensitivity problems? Respondents felt
that problems might be associated with self-absorbtion.

Well, I have this problem; it comes from being so wound
up with my own problems that I don't "have time" for
others. Don't know if this is your sticking point, but,
if it is, it shows in the tension you project. Semi-
silly idea: ask a friend to unobtrusively follow you
around with a camcorder and take candid shots of you in
public. This would probably be very difficult to
implement (too much "camera awareness"), but you could
really see how you present yourself to others. I've
already found that I've acted inconsistent in cases
where I told myself I wanted to pay attention to someone
I could care less about, and it showed. *sigh*

A lack of self-honesty was also blamed.

Playing games with oneself will surely cause problems in
dealing with others.

BE PREPARED!

Keeping an open mind prepares you to be sensitive to others.

... I find that keeping a VERY open mind helps. You
have to always be on your toes, trying to relate to what
the person is saying, even though you may not have
experienced what they have.

SENSITIVITY AS A SKILL

Most respondents believed that sensitivity to others could be developed.

Some people DO have this ability, but most just fake it.
It comes with experience...

People learn from their experiences, and make
judgements based upon these. If certain behaviour
results in favourable responses, we tend to repeat it.
Given unfavourable responses, we tend not to repeat it
(at least, not very often). So any sense of
"prediction" is mainly the application of past
experience.

LISTENING

One frequently discussed "technique" was listening.

The trick (for me, at least) was to listen more
carefully to people. I used to be caught up in a little
world of my own, and when I'd hear a key word that
related to something that was in my little world, then
I'd jump in the conversation.

Suggestions for effective listening techniques were made.

My best advise is that listening is an interactive
activity. As you learn how to communicate immediacy,
the rest begins to come more and more easily. For
example, as you are listening to someone, try to
understand not just what they are saying, but why they
are saying it. Then, as you start to guess, ask
questions which indicate an interest not just in the
what, but the why. You will probably be wrong most of
the time, but by asking, you don't have to guess.
The other person can tell you if you understand or not.
It takes some practice, but it is well worth it!

HOW TO LISTEN

Look directly at the other person. Don't look away at
other things, no matter how distracting.

Nod in agreement occasionally -- if nothing else, this
will keep the other person talking -- better still to do
it at the right places.

Completely refrain from trying to insert a comment of
your own. (I have trouble with this, and tend to
trample conversations, because if I don't say it
I'll forget what I want to say in trying to listen to
the rest of the conversation).

Lean towards the other person just a little (too much
can look confrontational).

These things will convince the other person that you're
listening. As long as you stay focused on him/her and
don't try to butt in, you'll be able to listen and
really hear what they're saying. "'Tis better to be
silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth
and remove all doubt." Waiting till the other person
finishes is polite and it gives you time to compose an
answer, rather than blurt out something.

Listen -- listen very carefully, look into their eyes,
don't let outside things interrupt your concentration on
what they are saying. If you don't understand exactly
what they said ask questions and get them to go over
things. Summarise what they have told you. Don't always
offer advice -- it's not always wanted -- often a
sympathetic ear is just enough. The important thing is
to show the other person that you are willing to drop
all outside distractions and to focus on their needs for
a while -- to show you care for them and they will like
wise return the favour when needed.

Another suggestion was to literally take notes, whenever practicable.
This was also recommended as it tends to build up the mental
note-taking habit.

NON-VERBAL COMMUNICATION

Acquiring an understanding of non-verbal communication was recommended.

People say so much, their gestures, looks, and body
language in general. Even the way they build sentences
is different when they are happy or sad. Sometimes it
is obvious, sometimes you have to know them for a while.
That's one part of it. The other is using this
information.

Touch was suggested as a way of "testing the waters."

There's a good way to know if someone is ready for your
friendship. Find an excuse and touch their hand. You
can lie and you can keep your face calm, but few people
can stand a touch from someone they don't like.

Looking at the way people are acting gives an indication of
their feelings, too.

I've also found that watching people helps. If I have
known someone for a long period of time and watch how
they behave, then eventually if they start doing things
that are "out of character", I'm better at picking that up.

DEVELOPING TRUST AND ENCOURAGING OPENNESS

Getting the other person to feel comfortable with you is a
critical need. This is your responsibility!

Most people are more open than one may think, if they
feel comfortable with it, so you have to give them that feeling.

Trust is the key to openness.

The major word is trust. Once you've won someone's
trust and respect they open to you. But a trust is easy
to loose too. And if you loose someone's trust you can
never get it back.

Asking questions was heavily recommended for getting people
to open up, even when on uncertain ground.

When you know SOMETHING is wrong, but have no idea what,
bluff. Ask leading questions, like you know something
already, but {be subtle}.

Ask people about themselves. If someone finds out that
you are actually interested in THEM, it is amazing how
they will respond. You can ask questions about their
family, about their work/school, or about everyday
things, i.e., "Did anything exciting happen today/this
week?' (and follow up -- the standard response is "no"-
I usually say "C'mon, surely SOMETHING interesting happened.")

It was pointed out that it is critical to listen BEFORE asking questions,
and to consider the impact of the question on the person asked.

At first, don't ask and just listen. Never ask if you
at their place wouldn't like the question.

Be open yourself. Let people know how YOU feel.

Basically if you want to show people that you're
sensitive to have to open yourself up to them as well.

Remember, NEVER assume anything. Sure, you can guess,
but remember that you are only guessing. The main
point, though, is to tell the other person how YOU
feel...

'You seem to be nervous... Are you?'
'You still seem to be upset, and that bothers me....'
'You know, I love it when you smile at me that way....'
'I really appreciate it when you do things like this....'
'That was really fun! I'd like to do that again!'

The 'mind-readers' just voice their concerns and
thoughts, that's all. Try it. With some practice,
you'll become quite adept at it....

Advise on encouraging trust included sharing your own "secrets".

As for getting people to opening up - share activities
with them, get to know them better, most importantly,
share your feelings too.

Real concern helps too, as does a willingness to help out.

Best advice I know of is to honestly care about other
people. Then you can pick up their "vibes" almost
naturally (since you care, you pay attention to what
they like and dislike, and become aware of these things).

Be friendly, honest, and open, and you will develop the
friendships you want. Be consistent, so that people can
see you can be trusted, and they will begin to open up.
Above all, be there when your friends need you.

USING YOUR OWN FEELINGS

Understanding the causes of unconfortable feelings in yourself
is helpful in understanding others, even if it means confronting
unpleasant realities about yourself.

That's exactly the way how it works. If you get that
[uncomfortable] feeling, try to find out what initiates
it. Of course, it means thinking more about people. It
helps a lot to talk with a really close friend about it.
When you get that feeling while talking to him/her.
Most people I have met who have this capability (if you
like to describe it that way), think it is based on
rational understanding your own feelings. The results
are not always nice, because nobody is perfect. I mean,
nobody likes to think about his bad properties, but
doing so is the consequence. Once you started it, you
can't run away.

SOME OTHER VALUABLE THINGS TO REMEMBER

Be open, yourself, and remember that

1) Everybody is entitled to their feelings, no matter
how illogical they are;

2) There is no such thing as 'blame'... Everybody
involved is equally at fault;

3) Don't attack, but express -- Not 'You did
this/that,' but 'I feel this/that';

4) Don't leave a problem unresolved -- it will just get
worse with time;

5) Nobody's perfect -- not even you....
[...]

#A# Back rubs and massages: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}--

If you want to know more about back rubs and massages read the FAQ file(s)
of the newsgroup alt.backrubs! In alt.backrubs you can also find addresses
of people who might want to exchange massages with you.
Here are a few introductions:

From: barrett@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Dan Barrett) -------------------------------

Torsten Wesley Adair <torsten@cwis.unomaha.edu> wrote:
>

0) The most important backrub rule in my opinion: never break contact.
Once you start touching the person, do not stop until the backrub
is over. Even if you must rest or switch positions, keep a hand
touching his/her back.

>1) Keep your fingernails short, and not sharp.

1.5) Scratching (lightly or hard, depending on your victim) after a
backrub can be wonderful. Follow this with extremely light touching
(a backrub where you are hardly touching the person at all, except
with fingertips). Careful not to tickle too much -- add more
pressure if you're tickling. Finish up with very light "real"
backrubbing.

>2) Before you start, ask the receipient to tell you if anything you do makes
> her or him uncomfortable.
>3) Rub firmly, but not hard.
>4) Use all parts of your hand. Sometimes use your fingertips, your palms,
> even your knuckles.

4.5) Play piano scales all over his/her back. Some people really like
this.

>5) If you use a substance, use skin lotion, and use it sparingly. Scented
> oils are acceptible (but be cautious of allergies).

5.5) Johnson's Baby Oil is great.

>6) Backs are nice, but don't limit yourself.

6.5) DO limit yourself if you don't know the person very well. Unwanted
touching will ruin both of your evenings.

7) If you don't know the person very well, offer a backrub ONLY if you
really mean "backrub." If you say "backrub" when you really are
just trying to get the person into bed, then (in my opinion at least)
you are a slime.

8) Have fun!

Dan

From: dontask@camelot.bradley.edu (Keith Nugent) ------------------------------

Giving an Effective Massage (Made Easy)

Three Basic Rules:

1.) Enjoy yourself
2.) Stay Comfortable
3.) Keep the Massee Comfortable

(Massage from friend to friend, not intended to be sexual.)

Start with conversation. Without even touching the person,
talk to them. Get attuned to how they're feeling etc at the time of
the massage. Find out how their day,week,month has been (Depending on
how often you talk to them. =) Ask them if there are any areas that
are painful or sensitive that they'd like avoided or paid special
attention to. Remember that if they're not comfortable with you,
they won't be comfortable with the massage they're recieving from you.
Ask them if they would be uncomfortable with taking their clothes off.
Let them know that you won't see them completely nude, but the purpose
of the removal of clothing is so that lotions or oils can be used and
so that the friction between cloth and skin won't cause discomfort for
either the masseur/masseuse or massee. If they're uncomfortable
with taking off their clothes, let them know that it's okay to leave
them on. Again, they have to be comfortable in order to enjoy the
massage. If they do wear clothes, don't use lotins or oils, but
instead decide (Depending on the type of clothing) if you're going to
cause the friction between your skin and the cloth or the massee's
skin and cloth. If the clothing is very loose, you're best to keep
the cloth with your hand. If the clothing is tight, it's best to keep
it with the skin of the massee.

Assuming that not everyone has a massage table available, the
floor is the next best thing (In some cases, it's better, IMO). Lay
out an exercise mat or similar pad if you have it. If not, a blanket
or comforter will work fine. Make sure that the surface that the
person is lying on won't hurt their skin. (Don't use a rough feeling
blanket... The smoother, the better.) Make sure that there's room
enough for the person to stretch out on and spread their arms and legs
out a little on without falling off the edge. Tell the person that
after you leave the room, you want them to take off their clothing and
lie on their stomach on the matt, covering their butt with a towel.
Have another towel handy to cover the breasts of a female massee when
she turns over. When they're lying on the floor properly covered,
they should call you back into the room to begin the massage. You
should have a natural oil or lotion ready. If possible, have a warm
water bath that you keep the bottle in (A bowl of warm water works
good). You'll want to use an organic oil or lotion rather than an
animal fat-based oil or a mineral oil. These can harm some people's
skins. Vegetable oils and lotions work best. Personally, I use
a Keoki Papaya Aloe Lanolin lotion. You can usually find a good
natural lotion or oil at GNC or any health store.

Start by rubbing the lotion between both hands to warm it up
if it isn't already warm. Gently spread it across the upper back and
shoulders, getting the massee used to your touch. IMPORTANT: Once
you have touched the person, never lose touch til you're done. You
want to create a bonded feeling between you and your friend through
touch and if you break contact, that feeling is ruined. Keep talking
to the person while you spread the lotion across the upper back and
shoulders.
Spread the lotion in a circular motion of each hand for a few
rotations, gradually moving your hands to the shoulders, cupping the
hands over the tops of the shoulders, pulling down on the muscles
between the neck and shoulder joints with your four fingers and
pushing up with the thumbs on the same muscles, pushing up along the
back of the neck muscles. Use circular motions with the thumbs along
this area while gently pulling these muscles with the fingers. Move
the hands down the shoulders, pulling on the muscles with fingers and
pushing with the thumbs. IMPORTANT: Don't push on the spine! Keep
the hands on either side of the spine, working down along the muscles.
Work your way back up the back with both hands cupped to the sides of
the back, thumbs along either side of the spine. Pull out from the
spine with the thumbs, working back to the top of the back. Return to
the shoulders, again cupping the hands over the shoulders and pulling
with your four fingers and pushing with the thumbs. Starting at the
top of the back pull down along either side of the spine with the four
fingers, pushing down with some force, being careful not to hurt the
massee. Work back up the back and use both hands on each shoulder,
switching from side to side. Repeat the above as nescessary.
When you get bored working on the back [kidding] move gently
down the sides to the legs. Rub gently down to the ankles. Cup both
hands over one ankle, moving your body around to one side of the feet.
Holding both hands over the ankle, knead the legs by pulling up on one
side of the leg with the thumb of one hand while pulling back with the
fingers of the other hand, keeping both hands next to each other.
Move back and forth like this with both hands up and down the calf of
the leg. Rotate the hands ninety degrees so that both thumbs are in
the middle of the knee and the fingers are cuppping over to the sides
of the thigh. Pull away from the center of the leg with the thumbs,
using the fingers as leverage (but not pressing too hard so as to hurt
the person). Work up and down the thigh pulling out from the center
with both hands. When you reach the top of the thigh, pull down the
center of the leg til you reach the bottom of the thigh and start
working back up. Work back down to the ankle and swithch legs.
Repeat on the other leg. Work back up the thigh to the back, cupping
the hands over both thighs with the thumbs off center to the outside
of the leg, pressing with the fingers. As you move your hands up,
your thumbs will rub along the buttocks and the fingers along the
sides. You will be cupping each hand on the side of the lower back of
the massee. Work up the back repeating what you worked on before.
Move down the arms, gently rubbing lengthwise. Work back to
the back and rub the neck. Rub the fingers up into the scalp, moving
back and forth with all your fingers as if scratching, but without the
nails of your hands. Show the person the other towel and move your
body around, placing yourself above their head. Have them turn over,
keeping your hands on their head. Move down their arms, rub the
fronts of the legs in a similar way as to the backs of the legs, and
rub the feet, if you have the knowledge. Unfortunately, it takes a
lot of explanation to properly describe a foot massage, but as long as
you're careful, you can't hurt the person, so experiment.

In order to maintain contact, you'll have to apply the oil or
lotion with one hand, but have to warm it before you apply it. To do
this, use one hand to pick up the bottle and squeeze some oil or
lotion into the nape of the opposite hand, then rub the hand that held
the bottle ove the nape to warm the oil, gently working the oil onto
the skin. Just remember that you're free to experiment with these
different techniques and don't have to follow this description
exactly. If you're interested in a more detailed account, write to me
or call your local AMTA chapter for a list of schools in your area.

Keep in Touch!

Keith

From: " (M.A.STONE)" <stonema@aston.ac.uk> ----------------------------------

A short addition to the massage manual:-face massage. This can be very
relaxing and, as long as it is done carefully, fun for the masseur too.
Make the victim/patient lie on their back with their eyes closed. Using
plain unscented carrier oil (very important) sit/kneel behind their head.
Start on the front of the neck and use the tips of the first two fingers
only. You have to sort of draw lines on their face and neck, very lightly.
Massage up the neck and out towards the ears; from the chin, along the
jawbone to the ears again. Then up the cheeks to the temples and along the
cheekbones under the eyes to the temples.
Then from between the eyes above the nose in an arch along the forehead to
the temples again. Cover all the area on the forehead by drawing arches
from between the eyes to the temples. Massage the temples lightly with
small circular movements, in both directions. Then, using one finger only,
dot along underneath the eye from the nose to the temple, and above the eye
in the eyesocket the same way. It is very important to make sure that the
patient is completly relaxed, and that you are 'in tune' with them.

[...]
Margaret

#B# Fireplace scenes and the RFA: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-

In November 1991 jcm@acsu.buffalo.edu (Joe McCorquodale) asked people
on alt.romance to post their most romantic ideas for an evening in front
of a warm fire and jokingly signed his article with "President of the
Romantic Fire Association" (RFA).
Many people replied with fireplace stories and became "Secretaries",
"Vice-President" and many many other roles within the RFA thus founded.
If you want to become a member of the RFA, go to alt.romance.chat and
post your application (romantic fire story)!

Here are just two of these stories:

From: afdenis@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison) -------------------------

You couldn't keep me out of this thread with a fire hose ! :-)

Well, let's see. Start off with some fine wine or hot chocolate, depending
on the taste of you and your SO. Also, the setting *outside* should
consist of suitably cold and snowy conditions and be visable through some
nearby window, just to add that "ain't it great to be in here rather than out
*there*" ambience. Music is a must. The entire Dan Fogelberg catalog comes to
mind, or, better yet, I'd drag out the old acoustic guitar and sing love
songs to her personally. This may not be an option for all of you, thus
the Fogelberg option is suggested. After the music, we'd cuddle up, backs
against some suitable cushion, on a (simulated) polar bear skin rug and
take turns reading to each other from books of favorite poetry or, better
yet, from the works of Gibran.

That should blend smoothly into a verbal sharing of our dreams of the
future, which would eventually trail off into her and I sharing the
mesmerizing sound of the crackling fire, eyes locked together in a timeless
gaze, listening intently to the sounds of our hearts beating as one. A brief
embrace and, then, it's time for the swapping of massages. Again, at the
option of the reader, either warm scented oil or perfumed powder is used
as the friction inhibitor, and no less than an hour is spent soothing and
stimulating every muscle and each square inch of skin. This must, of course,
be accompanied by playful licks and nibbles and the occasional whispered
endearment, the low, sweet vibration of the soft voice coupled with the
sensation of the warm breath in the ear driving the other to the very edge
of torturous delight.

When, finally, the skin of both people has been massaged to the brink of
tingling numbness, and the fire's warmth has been absorbed by each to
the point of saturation, you take each other's hands and, once again, share
a deep, soul stirring visual embrace, followed by a real and passionate one.
You draw back, to drink in the beauty of your SO bathed in the soft,
sensual light of the dancing flames and your love becomes a real and
tangible pain in you, driving you almost to tears. You express that love in
a minimal verbal statement, and then you seal it with a deep and passionate
kiss. The fires inside build to match the roaring flames that light your
way, and in wild abandon ...

Uhh... excuse me ... I gotta get out of the office for a minute ... :-)

ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHJHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! (Primal Scream)
[...]

Stephen "How do those Campfire Girls *stand* it? " Dennison

From: ames@biostat.washington.edu (Diane Ames) --------------------------------

It's a cold, stormy night and my love is working late. So I take advantage
of the extra time. A little extra care fixing my hair, doing my makeup. I
pick out "something more comfortable" to wear, both for myself and for him.
I put *my* something comfortable on, and lay his out on the couch, checking
on the fire as I do so. I collect every pillow, large or small, from every
room, and create an island in front of the fire. Massage oil is at hand,
wine is opened and breathing, resting on ice. Soft jazz plays on the stereo.
And so, I wait.

Somehow, in between claps of thunder and driving rain, I hear him pull
up. He runs in the door, shaking rain from his jacket, and nearly bowls
me over as I stand in the hall. I see exhaustion in his eyes, but as he
looks at me, a small, inquisitive smile lights up his face. He starts to
say something, but I gently put my fingers to his lips, and lead him to the
couch, and the warmth of the fire. I slowly undress him, kissing the
raindrops from his face, warming his chilled flesh with gentle caresses.
The music plays softly, occasionally drown out by the thunder, or a
particularly emphatic slash of rain across the window. The fire blazes,
and so does my heart, and the rest of the world is forgotten, as we enter
our own, private pillow oasis.

Again, he tries to speak, and this time I silence him with a kiss. This
followed by featherlight kisses to his eyelids, and he understands. His
eyes remain closed and he begins to relax. The fire roars on, warming
us through and through, as I shower his body with kisses, feeling the
tension and stress of the day bleeding from him. His breathing deepens
as he nears sleep, and a gentle, oiled massage takes him the rest of the
way. And now I can study his beautiful face, all aglow in the firelight.
I can bask in the warmth of the fire, and the warmth of our love. Time
enough when he awakes, refreshed, to put the fire to shame with the fire
of our passion. I sip some wine and smile, content just to watch him sleep.
Content to wait.

Yes, forever should be time enough.

#C# Breaking up: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,--

From: lisad@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Lisa Dominique) ----------------------------
Subject: Staying friends after breaking up

[...]
One of the biggest factors in breaking up and still staying
friends, is that you _both_ need to be sincere and honest
about the breakup with each other, and you _both_ want to
sincerely stay friends. If one wants friendship, and the
other is still bitter, problems will evolve, and that's
a certainty. If, by chance, this happens, the person
who wanted to stay friends can at least know within themselves
that they made a sincere effort.

I think, or this is something I have learned, that it
is very important, after breaking up with someone, to let
yourself "grieve" the loss for a reasonable amount of time,
get the feelings out instead of holding it inside you, which
can cause major problems. Try to focus on finding peace
and serenity within yourself by coming to terms with the
reality of your situation.... How do you _really_ feel
in your heart?? If you want to try to be friends with
your ex-SO, then make your efforts, and if you continue
to get emotionally and/or verbally rejected, then at
least you tried. You have to live with yourself forever,
ya know.... **wink** Be True To Yourself.... **smile**

Hope this helped you some....

Lis
Secretary to the President of the
Romantic Fire Association

p.s. Heaven is a *hug* and a *smile*
**hugs** :-)

#D# Flowers and their meaning: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @

From: ae498@yfn.ysu.edu (Dawn Bott) -------------------------------------------

[...]
this whole flower language started in Constantinople in the 1600s,
and was brought to England in 1716 by Lady Mary Wortley Montagu
who had spent time in Turkey with her husband. The interest
then moved to France (of course) where the Book Le Langage des
Fleurs was printed with over 800 floral signs. Many were toned
down in the English translation at the time of Queen Victoria
because they were quite lusty and risque! (aww..wish i could
get my hands on an original Frence copy!!)

anyway...here are a few "nice" ones.. [...]

White rosebud - heart ignorant of love
Crocus - abuse not
Rhubarb (!) - advice
Indian jasmine - attachment
Holly - Am I forgotten
Deep red carnation - Alas! for my poor heart
Deep red rose - bashful shame
Full red rose - beauty
Burgndy rose - unconscious beauty (hmm?)
Unique rose - call me not beautiful

Turnip(!) - charity
Chrysanthemum - cheerfulness in old age
Buttercup - childishness
Great yellow daffodil - chivalry
Lettuce - coldheartedness (i guess! [iceberg..get it?] ;)
Moss rosebud - confession of love
Red poppy - consolation
Red tulip - declaration of love
yellow sweetbrier or yellow rose - decrease of love
Mistletoe - difficulties, I surmount
Yellow carnation - rue, distain
Thornless rose - early attachment
Anemone - expectation
Scarlet poppy - extravagance, fantastic
Blue violet - faithfulness
Purple lilac - first emotions of love
Forget-me-not - hmm....gee?
Damask rose - freshness
White rose - i am worthy of you
Peach blossom - i am your captive
Iris - i have a message for you
White daisy - innocence
yellow rose - jealousy
dandelion - love's oracle
Lotus flower - estranged love
Ivy - marriage
Provence rose - my heart is in flames
yellow iris - passion
Dog rose - pleasure and pain
Christmas rose - relieve my anxiety
Filbert - reconciliation
Spanish jasmine - sensuality
Peony - shame
White poppy - sleep
yellow chrysanthemum - slighted love
Amarylis - splendid beauty
Honeyflower - sweet and secret love
Pansy - thoughts
Zinnia - thoughts of absent friends
Forget-me-not also means true love
White and red rose together - unity
Parsley - useful knowledge
Pink carnation - woman's love
lady slipper - win me and wear me (i swear that's what it says!)
Marigold - vulger minded
Rosemary - your presence revives me
Ice plant - your looks freeze me

From: barrett@server.cs.jhu.edu (Dan Barrett) ---------------------------------

FLOWER IT MEANS...
===========================================================================
Red rose Love
Yellow rose Friendship
White rose Fear
Pink rose Indecision
Green rose I am from Mars
Lily I am dead
Dandelion I am very cheap
Dandelion going to seed I am very cheap and I am dead
Buttercup I do/don't like butter (rubbed on chin)
Chrysanthemum I have periodontal disease
Carnation I ripped this off of some guy's tuxedo
Posey I want sex immediately
Daisy I want sex immediately with a large yak
Sunflower I am hungry
Crabgrass I just escaped from a mental institution
Scallion I am clueless

From: jggoslin@vela.acs.oakland.edu (The Seventh Stranger) --------------------

The Language of Flowers.

Flowers may be combined and arranged so as to express even the nicest
shades of sentiment.
If a flower is offered ``reversed'', its direct signification is likewise
reversed, so that the flower now means the opposite.
A rosebud divested of its thorns, but retaining its leaves, convays the
sentiment, ``I fear no longer; I hope.'' Stripped of leaves and thorns, it
signifies, ``There is nothing to hope or fear.''
A full-blown rose places over two buds, signifies ``Secrecy.''
`` Yes,'' is implied by touching the flower given to the lips; ``No,'' by
pinching off a petal and casting it away.
`` I am,'' is expressed by a laurel leaf twined arround the bouquet; ``I
have,'' by an ivy leaf folded together; ``I offer you,'' by a leaf of
Virginia creeper.

COMBINATIONS.

Moss Rosebud and Myrtle.
A confession of love.

Mignonette and Coloured Daisy.
Your qualities surpass your charms of beauty.

Lily of the Valley and Ferns.
Your unconscious sweetness has fascinated me.

Yellow Rose, Broken Straw and Ivy.
Your jealousy has broken our friendship.

Scarlet Geranium, Passion Flower, Purple Hyacinth, and Arbor Vitae.
I trust you will find consolation, through faith, in your sorrow; be
assured of my unchanging friendship.

Columbine, Day Lily, Broken Straw, Witch Hazel and Coloured Daisy.
Your folly and coquetry have broken the spell of your beauty.

White Pink, Canary Grass and Laurel.
Your talent and perseverance will win you glory.

Golden-rod, Monkshead, Sweet Pea and Forget-me-not.
Be cautious; danger is near; I depart soon; forget me not.

ABOR VITAE - Unchanging friendship.
CAMELIA, WHITE. - Loveliness.
CANDY-TUFF. - Indifference.
CARNATION, DEEP RED. - Alas! for my poor heart.
CARNATION, WHITE. - Distain.
CHINA-ASTER. - Variety.
CLOVER, FOUR-LEAF. - Be mine.
CLOVER, WHITE. - Think of me.
CLOVER, RED. - Industry.
COLUMBINE. - Folly.
COLUMBINE, PURPLE. - Resolved to win.
DAISY. - Innocence.
DEAD LEAVES. - Sadness.
DEADLY NIGHTSHADE. - Falsehood.
FERN. - Fascination.
FORGET-ME-NOT. - True love. Forget me not.
FUCHSIA, SCARLET. - Taste.
GERANIUM, SCARLET. - Consolation.
GERANIUM, ROSE. - Preference.
GOLDEN-ROD. - Be cautious.
HELIOTROPE. - Devotion.
HONEY-FLOWER. - Love, sweet and secret.
HYACINTH, WHITE. - Unobtrusive loveliness.
IVY. - Fidelity.
LADY'S SLIPPER. - Win me and wear me.
LILY, DAY. - Coquetry
LILY, WHITE. - Sweetness.
LILY, YELLOW. - Gaiety.
LILY OF THE VALLEY. - Return of happiness.
MIGNONETTE. - Your qualities surpass your charms.
MONKSHEAD. - Danger is near.
MYRTLE. - Love.
OATS. - The witching soul of music.
ORANGE BLOSSOMS. - Chastity.
PANSY. - Thoughts.
PASSION FLOWER. - Faith.
PEACH BLOSSOM. - I am your captive.
PEAR. - Affection.
PRIMROSE. - Inconstancy.
QUAKING GRASS. - Agitation.
ROSE. - Love.
ROSE, DEEP RED. - Bashful shame.
ROSE, YELLOW. - Jealousy.
ROSE, WHITE. - I am worthy of you.
ROSEBUD, MOSS. - Confession of love.
SHAMROCK. - Lightheartedness.
STRAW. - Agreement.
STRAW, BROKEN. - Broken agreement.
SWEEP PEA. - Depart.
TUBEROSE. - Dangerous pleasures.
VERBENA. - Prey for me.
WITCH HAZEL. - A spell.

#E# "I love you" in various languages: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}

From: (various; this list is maintained and posted regularly to soc.penpals
by Richard Kamenik <00180634@ysub.ysu.edu>)

This is the latest information that I have. Please send any additions or
corrections to me. Also, feel free to repost this list in it's entirety,
including this message, to any other group.

Thank you,
____ _ _ ___________________________
| _ \(_) ___| | __ | |
| | | | |/ __| |/ / | Character is what you do |
| |_| | | |__| \ | when no one is looking. |
|____/|_|\___|_|\_| |___________________________|
00180634@ysub.ysu.edu

ver 16 04-03-95
=========================================================
"I LOVE YOU" in:

Afrikaans : Ek is lief vir jou
: Ek het jou liefe
Albanian : Te dua
: Te dashuroj
Alentejano (Portugal) : Gosto de ti, porra!
Alsacien : Ich hoan dich gear
Amharic : Afekrishalehou
American Sign Language : __ (signed with right hand)
: __ ( )
: ( ) |__|
: |__| __ __ | |
: | |( )( )|__| __
: |__||__||__|| | / )
: | (__)(__) | / /
: | |/ /
: | / /
: \ /
Arabic (formal) : Ohiboke (male to female)
: Ohiboki (male to female)
: Ohibokoma (male or female to two males
or two females)
: Nohiboke (more than one male or females
to female)
: Nohiboka (male to male or female to male)
: Nohibokoma (male to male or female to two
males or two females)
: Nohibokom (male to male or female to more
than two males)
: Nohibokon (male to male or female to more
than two females)
Arabic (proper) : Ooheboki (male to female)
: Ooheboka (female to male)
Arabic : Ana behibak (female to male)
: Ana behibek (male to female)
: Ahebich (male to female)
: Ahebik (female to male)
: Ana ahebik
: Ib'n hebbak
: Ana ba-heb-bak
: Bahibak (female to male)
: Bahibik (male to female)
: Benhibak (more than one male or female to male)
: Benhibik (male to male or female to female)
: Benhibkom (male to male or female to more
than one male)
: Nhebuk (spoken to someone of importance)
Assamese : Moi tomak bhal pau

Basque : Nere maitea
Batak : Holong rohangku di ho
Bavarian : I mog di narrisch gern
: I lieb di
Bengali : Aami tomaake bhaalo baashi
: Ami tomay bhalobashi
: Ami tomake bahlobashi
Berber : Lakh tirikh
Bicol : Namumutan ta ka
Bolivian Quechua : Qanta munani
Brazilian/Portuguese : Eu te amo (pronounced 'eiu chee amu')
: Amo te
Bulgarian : Obicham te
: As te obeicham
: As te obicham
Burmese : Chit pa de

Cambodian : Kh_nhaum soro_lahn nhee_ah
: Bon sro lanh oon
Canadian French : Sh'teme (spoken, sounds like this)
: Je t'aime ("I like you")
: Je t'adore ("I love you")
Catalan : T'estimo (Catalonian)
: T'estim (Mallorcan)
: T'estime (Valencian)
: T'estim molt ("I love you a lot")
Cebuano : Gihigugma ko ikaw
Chamoru (or Chamorro) : Hu guaiya hao
Chichewa : Ndimakukonda
Chickasaw : Chiholloli (first 'i' nasalized)
Chinese : Ngo oi ney (Cantonese)
: Wa ai lu (Hokkien)
: Wo ai ni (Mandarin)
: Wo ie ni ( " )
: Wuo ai nee ( " )
: Wo ay ni ( " )
: Wo ai ni (Putunghua)
: Ngo ai nong (Wu)
Corsican : Ti tengu cara (male to female)
: Ti tengu caru (female to male)
Croatian (familiar) : Ja te volim (used in proper speech)
: Volim te (used in common speech)
Croatian (formal) : Ja vas volim (used in proper speech)
: Volim vas (used in common speech)
: Ljubim te (in todays useage, "I kiss you",
'lj' pronounced like 'll' in
Spanish, one sound, 'ly'ish)
Croatian (old) : Ljubim te (may still be found in poetry)
Czech : Miluji te (a downwards pointing arrowhead
on top of the 'e' in te)
: Miluju te! (colloquial form)
: Ma'm te (velmi) ra'd (male speaker, "I like
you (very much)", often
used and prefered)
: Ma'm te (velmi) ra'da (female speaker)

Danish : Jeg elsker dig
Dutch : Ik hou van je
: Ik hou van jou
: Ik bemin je (old fashioned)
: Ik bemin jou ( " )
: Ik ben verliefd op je
: Ik ben verliefd op jou
: Ik zie je graag

Ecuador Quechua : Canda munani
English : I love you
: I adore you
: I love thee (used only in Christian context)
Esperanto : Mi amas vin
Estonian : Mina armastan sind
: Ma armastan sind

Farsi (old) : Tora dust mi daram
Farsi : Tora dost daram ("I love you")
: Asheghetam
: Doostat daram ("I'm in love with you")
: Man asheghetam ("I'm in love with you")
Filipino : Mahal ka ta
: Iniibig kita
: Mahal kita
Finnish (formal) : Mina" rakastan sinua (a" = 'a' with two dots)
: Rakastan sinua
: Mina" pida"n sinusta ("I like you")
Finnish : (Ma") rakastan sua
: (Ma") tykkaan susta ("I like you")
French : Je t'aime ("I like you")
: Je t'adore ("I love you")
French (formal) : Je vous aime
Friesian : Ik hou fan dei (sp?)
: Ik hald fan dei

Gaelic : Ta gra agam ort
German (formal) : Ich liebe Sie (rarely used)
German : Ich liebe dich
Greek : S'ayapo (spoken "s'agapo", 3rd letter is lower
case 'gamma')
Greek (old) : (Ego) Philo su ('ego', for emphasis)
Greenlandic : Asavakit
Gujrati : Hoon tane pyar karoochhoon.
: Hoon tuney chaoon chhoon ('n' is nasal, not
pronounced)

Hausa : Ina sonki
Hawaiian : Aloha i'a au oe
: Aloha wau ia 'oe
Hebrew : Anee oheivet otkha (female to male)
: Anee oheiv otakh (male to female)
: Ani ohev otakh (male to female)
: Ani ohevet otkha (female to male)
: Ani ohev otach (male to female)
: Ani ohevet otcha (female to male)
: Ani ohev otcha (male to male)
: Ani ohevet otach (female to female)
Hindi : Mai tumase pyar karata hun (male to female)
: Mai tumase pyar karati hun (female to male)
: Mai tumse pyar karta hoon
: Mai tumse peyar karta hnu
: Mai tumse pyar karta hoo
: Mai tujhe pyaar kartha hoo
: Main tumse pyar karta hoon
: Main tumse prem karta hoon
: Main tuze pyar karta hoon ('n' is nasal, not
pronounced)
Hopi : Nu' umi unangwa'ta
Hungarian : Szeretlek te'ged
: Szeretlek

Icelandic : Eg elska thig
Ilocano : Ay ayating ka
Indonesian : Saya cinta padamu ('Saya', commonly used)
: Saya cinta kamu ( " )
: Saya kasih saudari ( " )
: Saja kasih saudari ( " )
: Aku tjinta padamu ('Aku', not often used)
: Aku cinta padamu ( " )
: Aku cinta kamu ( " )
Italian : Ti amo (relationship/lover/spouse)
: Ti voglio (friend/relative)
: Ti voglio bene
Irish : Taim i' ngra leat

Japanese : Kimi o ai shiteru
: Aishiteru
: Chuu shiteyo
: Ora omee no koto ga suki da
: Ore wa omae ga suki da
: Suitonnen
: Sukiyanen
: Sukiyo
: Watashi wa anata ga suki desu
: Watashi wa anata wo aishithe imasu
: Watashi wa anata o aishitemasu
: A-i-shi-te ma-su
: Watakushi-wa anata-wo ai shimasu
: Suki desu (used at the first time, like for a
start, when you are not yet real lovers)
Javanese : Kulo tresno

Kannada : Naanu ninnanu preethisuthene
: Naanu ninnanu mohisuthene
Kikongo : Mono ke zola nge (mono ke' zola nge')
Kiswahili : Nakupenda
Klingon : SoHvaD vIghajtaH bang
: qaparHa'qu'taH ("I like you!")
Korean : Tangsinul sarang ha yo
: Nanun dangsineul mucheog joahapnida
: Nanun dangsineul saranghapnida
: Nanun gdaega joa
: Nanun gdaereul saranghapnida
: Nanun neoreul saranghanda
: Gdaereul hjanghan naemaeum alji
: Joahaeyo
: Saranghae
: Saranghaeyo
: Saranghapanida
: Zaran ha yo
: No-rul sarang hae (male to female in casual
relationship)
: Tangsinul sarang ha yo
: Tangshin-ul sarang hae-yo
: Tangshin-i cho-a-yo ("I like you, in a
romantic way")
: Nanun tangshinul sarang hamnida
Kurdish : Ez te hezdikhem

Lao : Khoi huk chau
: Koi muk jao
Latin : Te amo
: Vos amo
Latin (old) : (Ego) Amo te ('Ego', for emphasis)
Latvian : Es tevi milu (pronounced 'es tevy meelu')
('i in 'milu' has a line over it,
a 'long i')
: Es milu tevi (less common)
Lebanese : Bahibak
Lingala : Nalingi yo
Lisbon lingo : Gramo-te bue', chavalinha!
Lithuanian : Tsve myliu (Ta-ve mee-lyu)
Lojban : Mi do prami
Luo : Aheri

Macedonian : Te sakam (a little stronger than "I like you")
: Te ljubam ("I really love you")
: Jas te sakam ('j' sounds like 'y' in May)
: Pozdrav ("Greetings")
Madrid lingo : Me molas, Tronca!
Maiese : Wa wa
Malay : Saya cintamu
: Saya sayangmu
: Saya cintakan mu
: Saya sayangkan mu
: Sayah chantikan awah
: Aku sayang enkow
Malay/Bahasa : Saya cinta mu
Malay/Indonesian : Aku sayang enkow
: Sayah chantikan awah
: Saya sayangkan engkau
: Saya cintakan awak
Malayalam : Ngan ninne snaehikkunnu
: Njyaan ninne' preetikyunnu
: Njyaan ninne' mohikyunnu
Malaysian : Saya cintamu
: Saya sayangmu
: Saya cinta Kamu
Marathi : Mi tuzya var prem karato
: Me tujhashi prem karto (male to female)
: Me tujhashi prem karte (female to male)
Mohawk : Konoronhkwa
Moroccan : Kanbhik (both mean the same, but spoken)
: Kanhebek (in different cities)

Navaho : Ayor anosh'ni
Ndebele : Niyakutanda
Norwegian : Jeg elsker deg (Bokmaal)
: Eg elskar deg (Nynorsk)
: Jeg elsker deg (Riksmaal)

Op : Op lopveop yopuop
Osetian : Aez dae warzyn

Pakistani : Mujhe tumse muhabbat hai
Pig Latin : Ie ovele ouye
Pilipino : Mahal kita
: Iniibig kita
Polish : Kocham cie
: Yacha kocham
: Kocham ciebie
: Ja cie kocham
Portuguese/Brazilian : Eu te amo (pronounced 'eiu chee amu')
: Amo te
Punjabi : Main tainu pyar karna
: Mai taunu pyar karda

Quenya : Tye-mela'ne

Romanian : Te iubesc
: Te ador (stronger)
Russian : Ya vas lyublyu (old fashioned)
: Ya tyebya lyublyu (best)
: Ya lyublyu vas (old fashioned)
: Ya lyublyu tyebya

Scot Gaelic : Tha gradh agam ort
Serbian (formal) : Ja vas volim (used in proper speech)
: Volim vas (used in common speech)
: Ljubim te (in todays useage, "I kiss you",
'lj' pronounced like 'll' in
Spanish, one sound, 'ly'ish)
Serbian (familiar) : Ja te volim (used in proper speech)
: Volim te (used in common speech)
Serbian (old) : Ljubim te (may still be found in poetry)
Serbocroatian : Volim te
: Ljubim te
: Ja te volim ('j' sounds like 'y' in May)
Shona : Ndinokuda
Singhalese : Mama oyaata aadareyi
: Mama oyata adarei
Sioux : Techihhila
Slovak : Lubim ta
Slovene : Ljubim te
Spanish : Te amo
: Te quiero
Srilankan : Mama oyata arderyi
Swahili : Nakupenda
: Naku penda (followed by the person's name)
Swedish : Jag aelskar dig
: Jag a"lskar dig
: Jag :alskar dig
Swiss-German : Ch'ha di ga"rn
Syrian/Lebanese : Bhebbek (male to female)
: Bhebbak (female to male)

Tagalog : Mahal kita
Tahitian : Ua here au ia oe
: Ua here vau ia oe
Tamil : Naan unnai kadalikiren
: Ni yaanai kaadli karen ("You love me")
: N^an unnaki kathalikkinren ("I love you")
Telugu : Ninnu premistunnanu
: Neenu ninnu pra'mistu'nnanu
: Nenu ninnu premistunnanu
Thai (formal) : Phom rak khun (male to female)
: Ch'an rak khun (female to male)
Thai : Khao raak thoe (affectionate, sweet, loving)
Tunisian : Ha eh bak
Turkish (formal) : Sizi seviyorum
Turkish : Seni seviyorum
: Seni begeniyorum ("I adore you")
(g has a bar on it)

Ukrainian : Ya tebe kokhayu
: Ja tebe kokhaju (real true love)
: Ja vas kokhaju
: Ja pokokhav tebe
: Ja pokokhav vas
Urdu : Main tumse muhabbat karta hoon
: Mujhe tumse mohabbat hai

Vietnamese : Anh ye^u em (male to female)
: Em ye^u anh (female to male)
: Toi yeu em
Vulcan : Wani ra yana ro aisha

Welsh : Rwy'n dy garu di
: Yr wyf i yn dy garu di (chwi)
Wolof : Da ma la nope

Yiddish : Ikh hob dikh lib
: Ich libe dich
: Ich han dich lib

Zazi : Ezhele hezdege (sp?)
Zulu : Mena tanda wena
: Ngiyakuthanda!
Zuni : Tom ho' ichema

Explanation of Languages
------------------------
Afrikaans -> spoken by people of Dutch heritage in South Africa
Alsacien -> French/German dialect (live in France, but speak
like Germans)
Arabic -> language spoken in the Arab countries including
but not limited to Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan,
Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and
the region of Palestine.
Assamese -> language spoken in the state of Assam, India
Batak -> northern Sumatra province of Indonesia
Bavarian -> language spoken in the state of Bavaria, southern
Germany (actually a German dialect)
Bengali -> language spoken in the state of West Bengal, India,
as well as almost all people of Bangladesh
Bicol -> Philipino dialect
Cebuano -> language spoken in Philipines near the town of Cebu
Chichewa -> language spoken in Malawi, Central Africa
Chickasaw -> North American Indian tribe (southeastern Oklahoma)
Dutch -> language spoken in the Netherlands and the provinces
of East- and West-Flanders, Antwerp, Limburg, and
Flemmish-Brabant, Belgium
Esperanto -> The International Language
Farsi -> language spoken in Iran. Dialects of Farsi spoken in
Pakistan and Afghanestan. Farsi is sometimes called
Persian.
French -> language spoken in France, Canada, and the provinces
of Luxembourg, Namur, Liege, Hainault, and Brabant-
Walloon(Brabant of the Walloons), Belgium
Friesian -> language spoken in northern Holland, northern
Germany, and in some parts of Denmark
(mainly west coast)
Gaelic -> language spoken in Ireland
Gujrati -> language spoken in the state of Gujrat, India
Hindi -> language spoken in the northern states of India
Hopi -> North American Indian tribe (southwest, Arizona)
Ilocano -> Filopino dialect
Kannada -> language spoken in the state of Karnataka,
southern India
Kikongo -> language spoken in Zaire, Africa
Klingon -> Spoken in Star Trek. Proper term for the language
is "tlhIngan Hol". The Klingon homeworld is
Qo'noS, in English it's Kronos.
Letzeburgisch -> language spoken in Luxemburg, a mixture of French and
German, with the emphasis on German
Luo -> language spoken in Kenya
Malayalam -> language spoken in the state of Kerala, India
Marathi -> language spoken in the state of Maharastra, India
(Bombay is the capital city)
Mohawk -> North American Indian tribe (New England, maybe one of
the Seven Nations/Iriquois?)
Moroccan -> language spoken in Morocco, North Africa
Navaho -> North American Indian tribe (southwest)
Ndebele -> language spoken in Zimbabwe
Punjabi -> language spoken in the state of Punjab, northern India
Quechua -> language spoken by Mayan Indians (South America)
Quenya -> Elvish language invented by J. R. R. Tolkien for his
books. Notably, "The Lord of the Rings".
Shona -> language spoken in Zimbabwe
Sinhalese -> Language of the non-Tamil (majority) people of
Sri Lanka
Sioux -> North American Indian tribe (upper midwest)
Tagalog -> Philipino dialect
Tamil -> language spoken in the state of Tamil Nadu, India,
and in Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia, Mauritus
Telugu -> language spoken in the state of Andhra Pradesh, India
(eleventh most spoken language in the world)
Urdu -> language spoken in Pakistan
Vulcan -> Spoken in Star Trek
Walloon -> literally Welsh(not English Welsh), a little used
French dialect with certain German influences
spoken in the provinces of Luxembourg, Namur,
Liege, Hainault, and Brabant-Walloon(Brabant of
the Walloons), Belgium
Wolof -> dialect spoken in Senegal
Zazi -> Kurdic dialect

a' -> a with the acute accent (') over it
a" -> " above a (umlaut)
e^ -> ^ above e

=======================================================
(no guarantee for correctness though....)

#F# ASCII graphics: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-

Here are some flowers and other things that you might want to include in your
love-letters: :)
__ __
/ \./ \/\_
__{^\_ _}_ ) }/^\
/ /\_/^\._}_/ // /
( (__{(@)}\__}.//_/__A____A_______A________A___
\__/{/(_)\_} )\\ \\---v-----V-----V---Y-------
( (__)_)_/ )\ \>
\__/ \__/\/\/
\__,--'

. .
... :``..':
: ````.' :''::'
..:.. : .'' :
``. `: .' :
: : : :
: : : :
: : : :
: : :..''''``::.
: ...:..' .''
.' .' .::::'
:..'''``:::::::
' `::::
`::.
`::
:::.
..:.:.::'`. ::'`. . : : .
..' `:.: :: :' .:
.: .:``::: : .: ::
.: ..'' :::.' :': :
: .'' .:: : : '
: .'`::
::
::
::
::
::
::

/-_-\
/ / \
/ / \
\ \ /
\__\__/
\\
-\\ ____
\\ / /
____ \\/___/
\ \ -//
\___\//-
-//
\\
//
//-
-//
//
\\
\\

.-~~-.--.
: )
.~ ~ -.\ /.- ~~ .
> `. .' <
( .- -. )
`- -.-~ `- -' ~-.- -'
( : ) _ _ .-:
~--. : .--~ .-~ .-~ }
~-.-^-.-~ \_ .~ .-~ .~
\ \' \ '_ _ -~
`.`. //
. - ~ ~-.__`.`-.//
.-~ . - ~ }~ ~ ~-.~-.
.' .-~ .-~ :/~-.~-./:
/_~_ _ . - ~ ~-.~-._
~-.<

_____
/ ___ \
/ / _ \ \
/( /( /(_)\ )\ )\
( \ \ ___ / / )
( \ _____ / )
/( )\
| \ / |
| \ _______ / |
\ / \ / \ /
\/ | | \/
| |
| |
|_|

H H
H H H H H
H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H H
H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ @ H H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ @ H H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ @ @ H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ @ H H H H H H H H H H H H
@ @ @ H H H H H H H H H H @ @
@ @ H H H H @ H H H H H H @ @ @ @ @
@ @ H H H @ @ H H H H H @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ H H H H @ @ H H H H H @ @ @
@ @ H H H H @ @ H H H H H @ @ @
@ H H H H @ @ @ H H H H H H @ @ @
H H H H @ @ H H H H H H @ @
H H H H @ @ H H H H H @ @ @
@ @ @ H H H H @ @ H H H H H H @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ H H H @ @ @ H H H H H @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ H H H @ @ @ H H H H @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ H H H H @ @ @ H H H H H @ @ @
@ @ @ H H H @ @ @ @ H H H H @ @ @ @
@ @ @ H H H @ @ @ H H H H @ @ @
@ @ @ H H @ @ @ @ H H H @ @
@ @ H H @ @ @ @ H H @ @ @
@ @ @ H @ @ @ @ @ H @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @
@ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @
@ @ @ @
@ @ @ @

VAMPIRIC HUGS & KISSES
FROM COUNT DRACULA
.- -.
_..-'( )`-.._
./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\.
./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )o o( ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`"'` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. .|||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\.
/'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.`
'.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
|/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
` ` ` " ' ' '

From: y0l8009@zeus.tamu.edu (R.G.Z. Lee)
____ ____
/,,,,\_____________/,,,,\
|,( )/,,,,,,,,,,,,,\( ),|
\__,,,,___,,,,,___,,,,__/
/,,,/(')\,,,/(')\,,,\
|,,,,___ _____ ___,,,,|
|,,,/ \\o_o// \,,,|
|,,| | |,,|
|,,| \__/|\__/ |,,|
\,,\ \_/ /,,/
\__\___________/__/
________________/,,,,,,,,,,,,,\________________
/ \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,___________,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/ \
( ),,,,,,,,,,,,,,/ \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,( )
\_/____________,,/ \,,____________\_/
/,/ \,\
|,| *H U G S* |,|
|,| |,|
|,| |,|
|,| |,|
\,\ O /,/
/,,\_____________/,,\
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\
/,,,,,,,,_______,,,,,,,,\
/,,,,,,,,/ \,,,,,,,,\
/,,,,,,, / \,,,,,,,,\
/_____,,,/ \,,,_____\
// \,/ \,/ \\
\\_____// \\_____//

From: grx0262@uoft02.utoledo.edu

+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+
|| (1) OFFICIAL ALT.ROMANCE NOTE ONE ||
|| ||
|| /\/\ ||
|| #1 ___--- ---___ (!) ||
|| -----____----- ||
|| ||
|| ONE ONE KISS PAYABLE UPON DEMAND (1) ||
+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+

From: grx0262@uoft02.utoledo.edu

KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSK __ __ SKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKI _/ \/ \_ SSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS / __--\__/--__ \ KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKI / _-- --_ \ SSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS /_-- --_\ KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKIS -- *SMOOCH* -- ISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSK \-_____ _____-/ SKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKIS \__ ------ __/ ISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKIS \__________/ ISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS
KISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISSKISS

From: klaskala@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Henning Klaskala)
________ ________
_,=**************,_ _,**************=,_
_,*********************,_ _,*********************,_
,***************************, ,***************************,
,*******************************, ,*******************************,
,*********************************, ,*********************************,
,************************ ,;ssssssss;. *********************************,
******************** ____sSSSSSSSSSSSSs, ********************************
******************* / __O)SSSSSSSSSSSSSSs ********************
****************** / ___O)SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS _-TTTTTT--_ ******************
***************** / ___O)SSSSSSSSS' |///|||\\\\\\\\ *****************
**************** / __O)SSSSSS(@)S' ====/=_ '||||\\\\\\\\ ****************
**************** \sSSSSSSSSSS() ~=|_ ~ ||||\\\\\\\\ ***************
**************** {SSSSSSSSSS' | ||||||||||| ***************
T*************** {SSSSSSS' _/~' ||||||||||| **************T
`*************** {SSSSS' \ (x) ||||||||||| **************'
`************* / ~-_ /~ ||||||||||| *************'
`************ | / ~~~\______--~ ||||||||||| ************'
`*********** | | \ ****** / ||||||||||| ***********'
`********* | _-----__ | \ **** / ||||||||||| **********'
~******* | ~~-__`----/ __----_||||||||||| ********~
~***** | ~~-_/ / |||||||\\\\\ *****~
~** | ~~--__ \\\\\\\\\\\\ **~
~** ~~----\\\\\\\\\\**~
~** \\\\\\\**~
~** --__ \\\\**~
~**,. ~~--__ ||**~
~****;,.. ~~~---____ .**~
~************;,.. ~~~~~~~.**~
~***********************~
~*******************~
~***************~
~***HK'93***~
~*******~
~***~
`*'

From: stefanos@concour.cs.concordia.ca (KIAKAS stefanos)

* * *
* * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
** * * * * * *
* * * * * * *
* * ***** * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * *
* * * * *
* * * * *
* * * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * *
* * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * *
* * * * *
* * *
*
*
*
*
*>
* * *
* * *
<* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
* * *
** *
* *
*
*

From: cowpatti@netcom.COM (Patricia Mae Anthony)

"" ""
"""" ** """"
""""" " *** **** *** " """""
"""""" """ *** **** *** """ """"""
""""" """"" ********** """"" """""
"""" """"" ********** """"" """"
"""" "" """"" ******** """"" "" """"
"""""" " """" ******** """" " """"""
""""""""""""" ******** """""""""""""
"""""" " ****** " """"""
@@ """" """ **** """ """" @@
@@@@ @@ " ----- "" ----- " @@ @@@@
@ @@@@@@@@ "" ------- "" ------- "" @@@@@@@@ @
@@@@@@@@@@@@ " ------- "" ------- " @@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@ " ------- "" ------- " @@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@ " ------------------ " @@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@;;@@@@@@ " ---------------- " @@@@@@;;@@@@@
@@@@@;;;;@@@@@"""" -------------- """"@@@@@;;;;@@@@@
@@@@@;;;;@@@@@ """" ------------ """" @@@@@;;;;@@@@@
@@@@@@;;@@@@@@ "" ---------- "" @@@@@@;;@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@ "" -------- "" @@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@ "" ------ "" @@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@ "" ---- "" @@@@@@@@@
@@@@@ """""""" "" -- "" """""""" @@@@@
@@@ """ """ " " """ """ @@@
*** "" " "" "" " "" ***
******"" " "" "" " ""******
******** " """" " ********
********* ------ " "" " ------ *********
*********** -------- " "" " -------- ***********
********** ----------- """""" ----------- **********
********* ------------ "" ------------ *********
******** ---------------- "" ---------------- ********
******** ------::::------- "" -------::::------ ********
*** *** ------::::::::----- "" -----::::::::------ *** ***
* ***-----:::::::::::------------:::::::::::-----*** *
"***-----:::::::::::::--------:::::::::::::-----***"
" * -----:::::::::::::::----:::::::::::::::----- * "
" * -----::::::::::::::::--::::::::::::::::----- * "
" ----::::::::&&&&&&::::::&&&&&&::::::::---- "
" -----:::::::&&&&&&&&::&&&&&&&&:::::::----- "
" -----::::::&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&::::::----- "
" ------:::::&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&::::::------ "
" ------::::&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&:::::------ "
" ------::::&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&:::::------ "
"" """" ------::::&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&::::------ """" ""
""""""" -------:::&&&&&&&&&&&&&::::------ """""""
""" """""""" -------::::&&&&&&&&&::::------- """"""" """
""" " """"" ------::::&&&&&&::::------ """"" " """
"""" " """ -----::::&&::::----- """ " """"
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""""" """"" ----::::::----- """"" """""
""""" """""" ----::::---- """""" """""
""" """""" ----::---- """""" """
"" """""" -------- """""" ""
""" ------ """
----
--

From: tapi2@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Alan Wui Tze Lim)

'''````'''''````''```
''''''````'`'`'`'`'``
''''`````''`'`'` '`'```
'''```` ''''`````` `'
'' '''''`````'`'`` ''''''' ''
'' '''```'''````` ''''
````` ''''`` ''' ``'' ''''
'''`` ````'` ''''```` '''``
' '' `` `` ```' ``
'` ```` '''' ```` `` ``
' ` `'' `` `` `` ''
' ` \\\\\\\ `` `` ``
' ` ` \ \\ ////////
' \ / ` \ \%%%%%/ /
` / \ / ` \ \%%%/ /
` / \ / ` \ \%/ /
` / \ / ' \ / /
` / \ ' \ / /
` \ ' \ /
` ' \ / `
` ' \ / ' \ `
`' ^^^^ ' /\ `
\\ | | ' / \ `
\\ |||| ' / / \\\ `
\ \ | || '/// \ \ \ `
\ \ |||| ' //// \ \ '
\ \ |||| ' // \ \ '
\ \ | | ' //// \ '
\ \ | | ` /\ '
\ \ || | ` /\ '
\ \ || | ` '
\ \ |||| `'
\ \ | || //
\ \ || | //
\ | / /
\ ||| / /
\ | / /
\ | / /
\ | / /
| | / /
| | / /
| | / /
| / /
| / /
| /
| |

From: tapi2@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Alan Wui Tze Lim)

\ ### /\
/ \ .#######. / /
. \ \.#########/. / .
. \ \.#######/. / .
.\ \ #####/ / .
\. \##/ ./ ##
. \ \/ / /\ #### /\
. \ / . \ \ ###### / \
. /\/\/\/\ \ \ \########/ /
/ /| \ / | \ \ \ ######/ /
/ / | || | | \ \ \###/ /
//\ | /**\ | / \ / ' \ \#/ /
` \/%&&%\|/ ' ` ' \ /
### *%* ' ` ~ ' \ /
##### *** ' ' ` ~ ' /\/\/\
/\ ####### /\ *** ` ~ ' ` ~ ' &%%&
/ \ ######### / \ *** ` ~ ' ` ~ ' *%*
\ /\######### /\ / *** ` ~ ' ` ' *** '
\ \#######/ / *** ` ' \&*** ' '
\ \#####/ / *** // &&&* ' ~ '
\ \#/ / ***&/ **' ' ~ ~ '
\ / **&& *** ' ~ ~~ '
\ / *** *** ' ~ . ' ~ '
/\/\/\/\ *** *** ' ~ . ~ '
&%%& *** *** ' ~ . ~ '
*** *** *** '~ . ~ '
*** *** *** ' . '
*** *** *** ' '
'' *** *** *** ' '
'' *** *** *** //
' ~ ' *** *** **&&&== /
, ~ ~ ' *** *** **&&
~ ~ ' **&&**&&&
' ~ ~ ' **&*&*
` ~ ' **&*
` ~ ' ****
` ' ****
' ****

From: tapi2@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Alan Wui Tze Lim)

%%%%%%
%%%%%%
&&%%%%%
' %%%%%
' %%%%
'' %%%%
' ' %%%%
' ' %%%%
' ' %%%%
' ~~ ' %%%%
' ~~ ~~ ' %%%%
' ~~~ ~~~ ' %%%%
' ~~~~~ ~~~~ ' %%%%
' ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ' %%%%
' ~~~~~ ~~~~ ' &&&&&&&
` ~~~ ~~~ ' {{}}{{}}{{}}
` ~~~ ~~ ' / \
` ~~~ ' / /\ \
` ' / \
`' / / \ \
/ \
/ / \ \
/ \
\ / \ / \ /
.... .... ....
// || \\
// || \\
// || \\
o o oo o o
oo oo oo
o o o

#G# Mailing list(s): @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}

From: richard@exxilon.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden) ----------------------
Subject: Information about The Rainbow Connection - LDR Mailing List

Hi everyone. If you're in an LDR and having problems, or just want to talk
to people in the same position (or who have been there before) then the
"Rainbow Connection" LDR Mailing List could be for you!

The mailing list is a support network for people in LDR's (Long Distance
Relationships). Many of the members are currently in LDR's. or have been
in the past. The list was set up to give support, advice and to share
both problems and successes with others.

Rainbow is *not* a contact or match making service. It is a support
group. Please don't waste your and our time trying to pick up on this
list.

To join the list, simply send email to:

rainbow-request@rmit.edu.au

asking for help. The server will tell you what to do to join and so on.

-richard

#H# Literature: @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-

* Intimate connections
David D. Burns.
New York : New American Library, 1985.

* Letting go : a 12-week personal action program to overcome a broken heart
Zev Wanderer and Tracy Cabot
Warner Books ed. New York : Warner Books, 1979.

* You just don't understand : women and men in conversation
Deborah Tannen.
1st Ballantine Books ed. New York : Ballantine, 1991, c1990.

* How to make love to a woman
Michael Morgenstern
Ballantine Books, New York, 1983

* 1001 Ways to be Romantic
Gregory J.P. Godek
Casablanca Press, Inc, 1993

Some documents available on the net (via FTP, WWW, etc.):

* alt.romance WWW home page
URL: http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~fischer/alt.romance

* alt.romance "FAQ"
ASCII version, as posted on Usenet (most up-to-date)
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/romance-faq/part1
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/romance-faq/part2
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/romance-faq/part3
HTML version, converted for WWW users (less up-to-date)
URL: http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~fischer/alt.romance/faq.html
LaTeX version (not updated since March 1994):
available via e-mail from klaskala@informatik.tu-muenchen.de

* alt.romance.chat FAQ
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/romance-faq/chat-newsgroup
URL: http://minerva.doe.mtu.edu/arc/

* Nice Guy's Manual
URL: http://casmac.scu.edu.au/jester/jester.niceguy1.html

* soc.couples.wedding FAQ
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/wedding-faq/part1
URL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding/faq/scwfaq.html

* alt.sex FAQ
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-sex/faq/part1
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-sex/faq/part2
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-sex/faq/part3
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-sex/faq/part4

* Pointer to sex info on the net
URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-sex/pointers

@}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- End of "FAQ" @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--

Disclaimer: Anybody looking for romance on a computer network should ask
oneself whether this is the right place to go.

---
Henning Klaskala
klaskala@informatik.tu-muenchen.de