HIT Digest #127

Sunday, April 19, 1998 23:24:37

This digest contains the following messages:

#1. dinosaur training/farming/construction - from Patrick Beggs
#2. Ow! My elbows hurt... :( - from Alson Kemp
#3. Re: The myth of training fast to be fast - from Andrew M. Baye
#4. Re: Calipers - from Lyle McDonald
#5. Re: Cycle's end - from Lyle McDonald
#6. Re: Uh oh, here we go again - from Lyle McDonald
#7. Re: Cycle End & Two Work Sets? - from Sean Sullivan
#8. RE: Deja Groove in HIT Digest #126 - from Don Gwinn
#9. Oh No! Not.... RUNNING! - from The Master of Disaster
#10. Re: HIT Digest #126 - from Greg German
#11. Why weightlift? - from Freik

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#1. dinosaur training/farming/construction - from Patrick Beggs
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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:44:30 -0400 From: Patrick_Beggs_at_NRDWR01P@mail.enr.state.nc.us (Patrick Beggs) Subject: dinosaur training/farming/construction I've not read Kubrik's book on dinosaur Training, only the info on the various sites. I agree some of it puts you in great risk of injuring yourself, but for those of you who are still into doing some of these 'exercises' I challenge you to question yourself. Do you really wnat to do these exercises or do you just want to see work performed that is noticeable when you are done? Having worked on a farm, been a landscaper, done a ton of field work and construction, but now being in a non-physical job I find I crave hard physical labor at times and the satisfaction of performing and accomplishing it. Training in the gym does not satiate this craving, albeit the day after a workout is usually not one of the times I crave this physical labor. So, I landscape in my backyard and help my friends also. I enjoy construction in the same manner, and helping to repair/construct hiking trails, etc. makes for a great weekend. Also, helping to brand 40 heifers while visiting your uncle pretty much quells my craving for a few weeks. For those of you into dinosaur training for the physical handson work being performed, for the throwback to simpler times feeling, both physical and mental, for the gloating (in your own head only-now) of knowing you moved a big damn pile of rocks or fertilizer bags, or young heifers, etc.----train safely in the gym to get the strength to be able to do these things for fun. Because unless you do them everday as part of your job, your never going to be as strong as the men who do, no matter how many barrels or sandbags you lift on weeknights in your basement. patrick

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#2. Ow! My elbows hurt... :( - from Alson Kemp
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Date: 07 Apr 1998 09:16:28 -0700 From: Alson Kemp <Alson.Kemp@nsc.com> Subject: Ow! My elbows hurt... :( Y'all (including the omnimpotent {sp...or was that intentional?} Rob), Two questions: 1> My elbows have been hurting. This is bad. I used to get some joint pain/popping which I think was from tendonitis. That cleared up and I have been elbow pain free for 3-4 years. Swell. Just recently (past 2-3 months), I have had some pain on the forearm portion of the elbow joint. The pain is located on either side of the forearm bone (the one that pokes out at the tip of the elbow). I feel is if I flex my tricep or press on that area of the elbow. Tendonitis? Oh yeah, when I do sitting single-arm tricep extensions or nose breakers, my elbow hurts a lot (well then don't do that, you dolt!). 2> My orthopaedist (old latin spelling?) diagnosed me with chondromalacia of the patellae. Since I saw Lyle mention this affliction a few times in a previous post, I thought I'd ask what the recommended exercise do's and don'ts are. I've started doing very shallow (20 deg), light weight (135#) squats again. What are terminal leg extensions? Should I switch to those? -Alson Kemp Engineer-at-Large

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#3. Re: The myth of training fast to be fast - from Andrew M. Baye
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:04:22 -0400 From: "Andrew M. Baye" <drewbaye@gdi.net> Subject: Re: The myth of training fast to be fast <<Superslow training simply does not recruit the power fibers (Type IIb). The only way these fibers are activated is through explosive movements. If these fibers atrophy (because superslow ignores them), the result will likely be a decrease in explosive ability.>> This statement is absolutely false. Muscle fiber recruitment is dependent upon the force the muscle is called upon to produce during an exercise and NOT the speed at which the exercise is performed. As a matter of fact, there is an inverse relationship between muscle fiber recruitment and repetition speed: the faster you lift, the more momentum produces force in the direction of movement, the less force the muscles are required to produce to lift the weight, and therefore the lower the percentage of all fiber types recruited. If you want to recruit every muscle fiber possible, you must force your muscles to contract as hard as possible, for a long enough duration to recruit and fatigue as many of them as possible (without performing so much exercise as to waste valuable recovery energy and resources), which means moving slowly, and keeping the muscles under continuous load during exercise. How quickly you move during exercise has absolutely nothing to do with the speed at which you are capable of performing other skills, such as athletic movements. Moving quickly during exercise is not only less effective for the purpose of growth stimulation, it is dangerous. Explosive exercise movements should be avoided. If you must develop explosiveness in a particular skill, then you must practice that skill in an explosive fashion. While not entirely safe, this is a necessary part of many sports. Perform strength training to improve your physical performance and increase your resistance to injury during sports and recreational activities, and practice those activities to become better/faster/more efficient in their performance. Do not attempt to mix the two though, because what you end up with will be less effective for either purpose. As Arthur Jones once said, "If anyone ever tells you to move fast during exercise, turn around and walk away...". Anyone familiar with Arthur knows the rest. Andrew M. Baye The SuperSlow Exercise Guild http://www.superslow.com/

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#4. Re: Calipers - from Lyle McDonald
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:10:11 -0500 (CDT) From: lylemcd@onr.com (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: Calipers >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:25:35 -0400 (EDT) >From: "R.A. Onufer" <onuferra@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA> >Subject: Body composition > > Does anybody out there know a simple way to determine your lean >body mass? I don't need anything too complicated like water immersion. I'm >just looking for a simple, fairly accurate way to gauge my lean body mass >by measuring and weighing myself. Once I know this I'll be much better >able to determine my gains in lean body mass. Calipers are the only semi-accurate measurement that you can easily use. They require practice though and the equations are turning out to be junk. so while you can't get a good esimate of true lean body mass, you cna at least plot changes. That is, if you get the following measurements: 4/17 5/17 Pec 5mm 4mm ab 20mm 16mm thigh 8mm 6mm You've lost fat. assuming you're past the initial neural strength gains phase (first 4-8 weeks depending on your source), use maintenance of strength as a baseline for muscle mass gain. That's about the best you can do at home. I don't know what our omnipresent moderator's stance on commericial stuff is but, IMO the best calipers to get for home use are the Slimguide calipers. They are plastic and cheap looking but compare very closely with more expensive Lange calipers. For $30, they can't be beat for value. They can be had from Creative Health Products (and no I'm not involved with them, they just have the best prices on just about everything): 1-800-742-4478 Lyle McDonald, CSCS "Chef, how do we get an elephant to make sweet love to a pig?" Stan "Well, Stan, first you have to get them drunk." Chef

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#5. Re: Cycle's end - from Lyle McDonald
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:10:18 -0500 (CDT) From: lylemcd@onr.com (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: Cycle's end >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:13:13 -0700 >From: "Paul Claffey" <claffp@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Cycle End & Two Work Sets? >Question: When doing one work set, occasionally I did not get the reps >(15-20 lower body, 8 upper body) at the particular weight. I did and extra >set that day and used the same weight the next time I did that exercise. >I feel that I personally make bigger inroads on the targeted muscle with >two sets and want try using two sets on a regular basis. Assuming two >work sets, should I use a weight and rep scheme to go to failure on each >set or just the second set? One workout shouldn't signal the end of a productive cycle because, let's face it, stuff happens and workouts sometimes just don't go well. If your schedule will allow it, you can try inserting another rest day. Or drop to one work set. All of these can sometimes get a cycle goig again. If you have several workouts in a row where you don't make progress or start to backslide, take the hint and restart the cycle ala Brawn. Lyle McDonald, CSCS "Chef, how do we get an elephant to make sweet love to a pig?" Stan "Well, Stan, first you have to get them drunk." Chef

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#6. Re: Uh oh, here we go again - from Lyle McDonald
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:10:23 -0500 (CDT) From: lylemcd@onr.com (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: Uh oh, here we go again >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:13:39 EDT >From: DejaGroove <DejaGroove@aol.com> >Subject: Re: HIT Digest #123 > >My goodness! This level of confidence is certainly impressive, but I fear that >it may not quite correspond to numerous studies regarding training athletes. >Superslow training simply does not recruit the power fibers (Type IIb). The >only way these fibers are activated is through explosive movements. So if I do a 1RM slowly, I'm not using Type IIb fibers. Nonsense. If you look at any of Digby Sale's papers, you'll see that fibers recruit based on force requirements. Above 80-85% of Max Voluntary Isometric Contraction (MVIC which we roughly equate with 1RM) you get 100% motor unit activation. And yes I'm aware that you can increase force requirements by increasing movement velocity but that won't change the fact that, fast or slow, above 85% of 1RM, you get all the fibers recruited. Lyle McDonald, CSCS "Chef, how do we get an elephant to make sweet love to a pig?" Stan "Well, Stan, first you have to get them drunk." Chef

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#7. Re: Cycle End & Two Work Sets? - from Sean Sullivan
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Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:39:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Sullivan <sms64@ultranet.com> Subject: Re: Cycle End & Two Work Sets? >-------------------- 5 -------------------- >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:13:13 -0700 >From: "Paul Claffey" <claffp@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Cycle End & Two Work Sets? > >Question: When doing one work set, occasionally I did not get the reps >(15-20 lower body, 8 upper body) at the particular weight. I did and extra >set that day and used the same weight the next time I did that exercise. >I feel that I personally make bigger inroads on the targeted muscle with >two sets and want try using two sets on a regular basis. Assuming two >work sets, should I use a weight and rep scheme to go to failure on each >set or just the second set? What I've found works best is to use the same weight on the two work sets and only the second set should get you near/to failure. IOW, if you're doing 2x5 for your work sets, the first set you should be able to get around 8 reps or so IF you kept going (this number will vary), then rest 4 or 5 minutes, then the second set you should just be able to get 5. If you can get more reps my advice is to stop at 5 anyways. As long as you're using more weight than your last workout there is no need to overly tax your CNS by going to failure. Just up the weight again the next workout and be happy knowing you could have done more if you wanted. >Question: when to end the cycle? I've been going for 15 weeks (minus >time lost to the flu) and am beginning to see signs that may mean it is >time to take a break. For example, I just learned how to do squats in >Dec and started this cycle at 155x2x12 and progressed to 225x1x20. Last >week, I had a hard time with 230#. Stopped at 7 reps as my form broke down. >I did some more 5 rep sets and noticed that I'm using too much back. >Should I take a week off, drop down in weight and start another cycle (with >better form) per the plan laid out in Brawn? > If your form is broken down the answer is yes. You should never sacrifice form to add weight. If your other lifts are still moving up steadily though, I would just back off on the squats and cycle back up with perfect form. Part of the problem may be the 5lb increment. That's too much this far into a cycle. Your body just isn't going to give you that much new strength in a week. 2 1/2 lbs would be better once the sets start getting tough. BTW, that's great progress. 20 rep squats are so tough when done properly, that's probably why I stick to 2x5.

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#8. RE: Deja Groove in HIT Digest #126 - from Don Gwinn
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Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:13:08 -0500 From: Don Gwinn <dgwinn@monm.edu> Subject: RE: Deja Groove in HIT Digest #126 <"If training slow makes you slow, why is my friend not slow?" LOL...Imagine how much trouble you would be in if she trained for speed!> Touche =), but that was my point. She DOES train for speed--by working to eliminate all wasted motion and/or hesitation. Her skill is what makes her so fast. I admit that few people could look slow in comparison with my slothful self, but this girl had to spar and score on black belts in a discipline which emphasizes speed in order to get her brown belt. Can anyone seriously tell me she should have been doing explosive movements, even given the increased risk for injury? Of that, at least, I have personal knowledge. I followed the typical high-volume program with explosive squats and power cleans throughout high school and my freshman year of college. This year I switched to 4/4 speed and dumped the power cleans, and my knee problems mysteriously disappeared. Don Gwinn dgwinn@monm.edu http://geocities.datacellar.net/Athens/Olympus/6297/ Author of the Five Words. 4-time UFFC (Ultimate Fake Fighting Championship) Superfight Champion.

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#9.  Oh No! Not....  RUNNING! - from The Master of Disaster
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Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:03:36 -0400 From: The Master of Disaster <wlucke@vt.edu> Subject: <Gasp> Oh No! Not.... RUNNING! >More strength does not imply better reflexes. Reflexes come from more >neurological >a source than pure strength. The type of training necessary to become quick, >as Mr. Hatfield stated, is very different from strength training. To gain >quickness, you must train for quickness. > >More bulk can slow you down, if it is an extreme amount of bulk. But with >proper training, and good genetics, even big guys can be very quick. >Generally, a really, really big guy may be slower than a not so big guy. Look >at running backs in pro football. Excellent quickness. To me, these guys are >huge. Then compare them to linebackers. See what I mean? > >If you need to know how to train for quickness, I'd be happy to give you some >pointers. > >Eytan Koch, CSCS Mr. Koch, although I am not the one who asked the original question, I would very much like and appreciate such pointers. To the world in general: because of my involvement in the Naval ROTC program, I need to keep in good running condition, but also want to keep good strength in my legs. I am not looking for absolute extremes for either running or strength, but I do want to be quite good in each. Is this impossible? or merely inhumanly difficult? To elaborate on my situation: I am 6'1" tall with a BW of 210 and BF <10%. My thighs are between 23 and 24 inches. Currently when I run, my limitation is the incredible burn that seeps into my lower quads and lower glutes/upper hamstrings after about 1.5 miles, rather than any lack of wind. Would working with higher reps in the weightroom help this problem at all? If not, what would? I would appreciate any productive advice anyone has to offer on this.

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#10. Re: HIT Digest #126 - from Greg German
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Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:09:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg German <greenman27@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: HIT Digest #126 Hello, I want to thank everyone who responded to my plea for help. I am currently processing all of the advice and synthisizing a program that includes the various peices of wisdom I received. I am currently doing a routine once every 3-4 days with 1set to failure (8-12 reps of each exercise) adding 5-10 lbs at each session. I also am trying a different cardio routine I read about that is done after the workout. My primary goal--despite some advice--is to take the excess fat weight off. I am on a modified Zone program that includes supro soy protein. I really don't want to start investing in a whey protein product yet. But if I were headed in that direction what are the best products available? Thanks again for the speedy responses!

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#11. Why weightlift? - from Freik
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Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:34:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Freik <freik_tfa@yahoo.com> Subject: Why weightlift? (I think this is where I e-mail) Please help me. I am doing a research paper for school on the benefits on weightlifting and I can't find any information about the benefits of weightlifting. Please help me out greatly and send me any info on why you weightlift and how it has helped you. Thanks a ton, Adam

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