1. Re: Training frequency
by: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
2. Re: HIT Digest, digest #76
by: Sandeep De <sde@golden.net>
3. Re: GVT
by: Erkki Turunen <eraturu@mail.dlc.fi>
4. Re: New Routine
by: Erkki Turunen <eraturu@mail.dlc.fi>
5. Train to Failure
by: Nic Oliver <impact@star.co.uk>
6. Re: New Routine
by: Brad Collins <bcollins@hotmail.com>
7. Those strange coaches.
by: Don Pendergraft <dpendergraft@beckett.com>
8. Re: HIT Digest, digest #76
by: Dr Squat <DrSquat@aol.com>
9. A good book?
by: Jon Isacson <ji@objecta.se>
10. Re: New Routine
by: Steve Raymond <Steve_Raymond@cpqm.mail.saic.com>
-------------------- 1 --------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:31 EST
From: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Training frequency
In a message dated 98-01-06 21:54:36 EST, you write:
<< So, let me ask you; just what is going to happen if I extend my recovery period to 10 days instead of the proscribed 5? Atrophy? I've already(by experimentation) ascertained that some of my body parts(e.g. mylats) will actually regress (using HIT protocols) if trained more frequently than every 10 (despite Sandeep's insistance to the contrary:) ). What do you suggest? >>
I am currently training only once every 10+ days, rotating between two workouts (only performing each workout once every 20+ days), and have been making better progress now than I did training once per week. I have several clients who train only once every other week, and know of other trainers who have clients training only once every 10 days or less, all of whom are making considerable progress. It is highly doubtful that a person would experience any decompensation in such a short period of time. I've had clients resume training after vacations of 3 to 4 weeks, and perform significantly more repetitions on each exercise than they did before leaving. Don't underestimate the importance of allowing adequate recovery time, or how long that might be.
Andrew M. Baye
-------------------- 2 --------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:53:32 -0500
From: Sandeep De <sde@golden.net>
Subject: Re: HIT Digest, digest #76
> So, let me ask you; just what is going to happen if I extend my recovery period to 10 days
> instead of the proscribed 5? Atrophy? I've already(by experimentation) ascertained that some
When I trained GVT style; I used an 8-10 day recovery period and made a
solid gain of 6 lbs. over 4 weeks with no increase in bodyfat
percentage. It should be mentioned, however, that it was the first
training program I used coming off from football season; and hence some
muscle mass that I had before had catabolized from the overwork typical
of football (hey, I'm a fullback :)). So it is difficult to say whether
or not the gain was a "pure" gain or just regaining lost mass; which is
typically quite rapid. My second stab at GVT or another similar time
under tension protocol devised by Jerry Telle will be more revealing in
terms of new mass gains.
----------
Sandeep De
The Power Factory - http://geocities.datacellar.net/HotSprings/4039/
"The beatings will continue until morale around here improves."
-------------------- 3 --------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:02:02 +0200
From: Erkki Turunen <eraturu@mail.dlc.fi>
Subject: Re: GVT
>Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:54:13 -0800
>From: SAILOR@webtv.net (Ken Roberts)
>Subject: GVT
>So, let me ask you; just what is going to happen if I extend my recovery
period to 10 days
>instead of the proscribed 5? Atrophy?
Maybe not atrophy but probably not hypertrophy either.
I've already(by experimentation) ascertained that some
>of my body parts(e.g. mylats) will actually regress (using HIT protocols)
if trained more
>frequently than every 10 (despite Sandeep's insistance to the contrary:) ).
What do you
>suggest?
Are you really sure that it takes 10 days for your lats to recover? If you do some kind of deadlifts on another day they will also tax your lats to a degree. By leaving them out for a while you may discover that your lats do recuperate in less days. If you do some kind of split training you could arrange your exercises so that there would be minimal amount of overlap, for instance you could do deadlifts and lat training on the same day.
>As to Brad Collins' statements; of course, you are correct in your
questioning my statement
>that I am going to failure on each of the 10 rep sets for 10 sets. A
rediculous statement and
>one I would not have made had I proof read my post. What I meant was that I
am failing befor
>I finish 10 reps somewhere around my 8th set and finishing up the remaining
sets, going to
>failure with each, but with decreasing reps with each succeeding set.
Why not modify GVT so that you "only" do 8 sets instead of 10? Keep in mind
that 8 sets for you is definitely as demanding as 10 sets for a trainee half
your age so there's no need in pushing further. It's true that you CAN do
10x10 IF you work with a sufficiently light weight but then the majority of
the sets would probably be a wasted effort. And if you want to play a
numbers' game you could experiment with 8x8 which could be called "a chess
player's volume training".
Erkki Turunen
-------------------- 4 --------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:02:14 +0200
From: Erkki Turunen <eraturu@mail.dlc.fi>
Subject: Re: New Routine
>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:03:12 -0400
>From: "Chatoor" <jakim@trinidad.net>
>Subject: Fw: New Routine
>
>A little background first.I am 17 years old , and have been lifting
seriously for the last
>2 years or so. I weigh around 155# ( give or take 2 #). I am
5'10.Relatively low bf%
>( I would guess about 10-12% ).Icurrently bench 185 for 7 reps and have 14
1/2 inch arms.
>My goal is to put onbetween 5 and 10 pounds in the next 6 weeks or so. I am
thinking about
>switching to a routein which focuses on large compound movements.... How
does the one listed
>below sound??
>
>Deadlift : body weight * max reps. (2 sets)
>weighted dips : max reps (2 or 3 sets)
>bent over rows : optimal weight for 8 reps (3 sets)
Good movements but I would caution against using deadlifts AND bent over rows in the same routine because it would probably be too taxing for the lower back. If you want to row anyway, try one-dumbbell rows instead.
>Also, I intend to do this routine maybe every 3 or 4 days, is this better
>than splitting it up and lifting every other day??
Deadlifting twice a week may be too frequent. It's usually suggested to deadlift only once a week. Thus you could keep your routine in other way intact but alternate between deadlifts and, say, squats or leg presses. What comes to split versus full-body routines, I think it cannot be said categorically which is better. Both ways have pros and cons.
Is it ok to lift the first day the soreness
>has gone? or is it better to wait maybe a day or so after the soreness has
gone to lift??
If supercompensation doesn't start - as some "experts" claim - until
soreness has gone then it would sound logical to wait a day or two. And if
you are not sure then it's wiser to train too infrequently rather than too
frequently.
>I find that after an intense workout , it takes my body about 4 or 5 days
for the soreness
>to be gone...
Is it really muscle soreness or tightness?
Erkki Turunen
-------------------- 5 --------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:10:27 +0000
From: Nic Oliver <impact@star.co.uk>
Subject: Train to Failure
Apologies to those who have seen this posting on Weights - since I got no answers and in any case this may be a more appropriate list:
Everyone seems obsessed with training to failure at the moment - what
precisely does it mean? An inability to do one more rep with the weight
you started with? The result of an inability to carry out any more reps
after the third set of a descending set protocol?
And why is it so important anyway? I seem to recall that Ed Coan wrote that he used to try to ensure that he had a little left in the tank when he had finished his reps, in other words, could have done one more rep if necessary. If the important criteria in gatting a training response is the stress imposed on the system as a whole, surely too miuch training to failure could end up overstressing teh system?
Finally, if 45 - 70 seconds is the optimal time for a set, how do we
know that 6 reps at 5 seconds up and 5 seconds down with, for sake of
example 100kg is any better or worse than 10 reps at 2 seconds up and 4
seconds down with the same weight?
Regards
--
ÐÏࡱ
-------------------- 6 --------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 05:27:11 PST
From: "Brad Collins" <bcollins@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Routine
>From: "Chatoor" <jakim@trinidad.net>
>Subject: Fw: New Routine
>
> I am thinking about
>switching to a routein which focuses on large compound movements....
How does the one listed
>below sound??
Your routine should always be based on using the basic compound
movements.
>
>Deadlift : body weight * max reps. (2 sets)
>weighted dips : max reps (2 or 3 sets)
>bent over rows : optimal weight for 8 reps (3 sets)
I would chuck the bent over rows. Too hard on the low back given there
are plenty of other alternatives. How many reps can you get with BW in
the deadlift?
What about squats!? You need to add squats and or leg presses (assuming you have a really good leg press machine - but that is another subject).
>
>this routine will be supplemented with calf raises, tricep extensions
and dumbbell/barbell
>presses as needed
Chuck the tricep extensions. Do Close Grip benches instead.
> Also, I intend to do this routine maybe every 3 or 4 days, is this
better
>than splitting it up and lifting every other day?? Is it ok to lift the
first day the soreness
>has gone? or is it better to wait maybe a day or so after the soreness
has gone to lift??
In my opinion, it depends on the lifter and their experience level.
Newbies can even get away with training sore for awhile. In general,
your soreness should be GONE before you lift again. And then be gone
for a day or two at that. FORGET every other day.
Try an upper/lower split OR a 3 day a week routine centered with the powerlifts. Mon: Squat, Wed: Bench/Dips, Fri: Deadlift.
OR
Upper/lower split: Wed: Upper (excluding back), Sat Squat/Dead
including back.
There is no need for any direct arm work if you are working the basic compound movements hard. If you must, throw in a set of barbell curls.
What about grip work? What about ab work? Treat those just like any
other bodypart. Train them hard, brief, and infrequently. See the
Cyberpump! web page under Chuck's PIT for a grip article. Also, check
out the Workout Page.
If you want a more detailed workout...just post back to the digest with
your choice from above. Also, how long you have been working out?
What about your diet? Sleep habits? Other physical activities outside
of lifting?
Keep in mind TECHNIQUE is VERY important. Especially when you first
start out. Mistakes now that you can get away with WILL catch up with
you later in life. Trust me, I know.
Don't look for quick gains or fixes. Great results come with long term
progression and common sense training.
Brad
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------- 7 --------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:50 -0600
From: "Don Pendergraft" <dpendergraft@beckett.com>
Subject: Those strange coaches.
Pretty interesting. Though also not HIT related, on a similar note, Bills
coach Marv Levy has his Masters Degree from Harvard in English Literature.
Pretty surreal, but funny.
Don P.
>Here's my tidbit for today. Did anyone know that Tom Landry - one of the
greatest
>NFL coaches of all time - was an Industrial Engineer by education and
claims he used
>I.E. techniques when coaching? I say this because of course, I am an
Industrial >Engineer by education and practise.
>
>But I don't plan on being an NFL coach.
>
>
>--Rob
-------------------- 8 --------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:59 EST
From: Dr Squat <DrSquat@aol.com>
Subject: Re: HIT Digest, digest #76
In a message dated 98-01-06 21:50:40 EST, you write:
<<
Here's my tidbit for today. Did anyone know that Tom Landry - one of the
greatest
NFL coaches of all time - was an Industrial Engineer by education and claims
he used
I.E. techniques when coaching? I say this because of course, I am an
Industrial Engineer
by education and practise.
But I don't plan on being an NFL coach.
>>
Good for you Rob! And thank heaven! I.E. technology was developed by Steve
Davsison, and he and I introduced I.E. together to Landry and his stalwart
crew back in the mid 80s through Bob Ward, his strength coach. It is HIGHLY
ballistic... although very "controllable." Beautiful technology...I trained
Sid Fernandez (then left-hander for the Mets -- he had his best season ever)
with this technology, and later Evander Holyfield (just before he won the
title). Many others too...
Fred
-------------------- 9 --------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:45:04 +0100
From: Jon Isacson <ji@objecta.se>
Subject: A good book?
First I must thank everyone who contributes to this excelent mailing list.
And on to my question. Here in Sweden the book "Power Factor Training" is
just recently translated and it's the first time I ever heard about it. But
it sounds like a HIT book or am I wrong (I've only read the commercial).
I really want a book about the HIT way but it seems impossible to find
Mentzers book(s?) or Brawn for example.
Is Power Factor Training any good or should I continue hunting for any of
the other books. Any suggestions on what's the best book.
Why a book when I have access to Cyberpump! I hear you ask? Well, when I read about training I get a "training-rush" and want to work out. If I could get that kick just before I worked out I would be happy. And let's face it, a computer in the locker room is a bit uncommon, even in Sweden ;-)
Jon
PS Keep up the good work with both Cyberpump! and this mailinglist DS
-------------------- 10 --------------------
Date: 7 Jan 1998 10:14:29 -0800
From: "Steve Raymond" <Steve_Raymond@cpqm.mail.saic.com>
Subject: Re: New Routine
>How does the one listed
>below sound??
>
>Deadlift : body weight * max reps. (2 sets)
>weighted dips : max reps (2 or 3 sets)
>bent over rows : optimal weight for 8 reps (3 sets)
This seems like a good routine to me. Why are you using your bodyweight as a guide for deaqdlift weight? You seem fairly strong and could probably do more. Find a weight that allows you to get 15-20 reps at 2/2 speed and then use double progression to gain. Dips are a great substitute for bench. No need for a spot and there is never a wait for the dip bar. You say "weighted" dips but then state that you are going to max reps. If you are doing weighted dips by either hanging weight from a dip belt or a dumbell from your legs then you can set a target rep range/speed. Since you say you can bench 185/7 and your bw is 155 you might try hanging about 20 lbs and shooting for 8-12 reps with a 2/4 speed. Again use double progression to gain. Bent over rows are great. If you are going to do any other exercises (you mentioned a few) forget triceps and presses because your dips are going to blast those if you do them right. Maybe add an exercise for the shoulders. As far as rest goes, you're better off taking off more time than less time. Listen to your body - pretend that you have money riding on your next session and don't go back to the gym until you feel like you can give 100%.
spr