1. ARRGGHH!!
by: Steve Raymond <Steve_Raymond@cpqm.mail.saic.com>
2. Paul Chek web site
by: Stephen Turner <smturner@golden.net>
3. Re: to James Kriegers Comments on Aerobics
by: Peter Zappola <zappolpc@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
4. Aerobics is not exercise, and exercise is not supposed to be fun.
by: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
5. Running: Benefit vs. Risk
by: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
6. Re:Re: Training Debates
by: Teri Pokere <T.Pokere@uq.net.au>
7. movies and Canadian ants
by: Daniel Yourg <dyourg@teetot.acusd.edu>
8. Master Trainer
by: Stephen Turner <smturner@golden.net>
9. Re: Exercise Physiology vs. REAL Scientific Research
by: reptile <reptile@blast.net>
10. Re: Full Squats and Leg Extensions
by: Andrzej Rosa <rosa@wsrp.siedlce.pl>
11. A good digest
by: Jon Ziegler <Rutger1@JPS.NET>
12. Master Trainer URL
by: Don Pendergraft <dpendergraft@beckett.com>
-------------------- 1 --------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 15:47:55 -0800
From: "Steve Raymond" <Steve_Raymond@cpqm.mail.saic.com>
Subject: ARRGGHH!!
I blew out (tore) my ACL and MCL skiing this weekend. Frustrating as hell. I was in the best condition of my life going into the season and really in top form. The accident happened so fast I can't even say what happened. One minute I was skiing the next minute my leg was dangling by 2 few threads. SO
Does anyone have any experience/advice for working out with a bad knee? Obviously all lower body exercises are out. There is no way i can move weights around, I think I'll have to go to all machines.
Does anyone have any rehab advice for down the road?
I am going to see 2 orthopedic surgeons this week. I will then know better what my future holds as far as surgery etc. I will avoid anything until then.
spr
-------------------- 2 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:08:49 -0500
From: Stephen Turner <smturner@golden.net>
Subject: Paul Chek web site
I was reading the Cyberpump Hardgainer QA, and one of the responses
mentioned using a medicine ball, and references the following site for more
info
http://www.paulchekseminars.com
I went to have a look at this site, and there is an animation of a guy
doing squats while standing on a medicine ball! I'm no exercise authority
of course, but that just looked way beyond brain-dead. How do you even put
the bar down at the end of a set, let alone avoid doing a face plant on top
of or underneath a barbell? Do any of our contributors to this digest try
to do this stuff, or see any merit in it?
Regards, Steve
..
-------------------- 3 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:56:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Zappola <zappolpc@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Subject: Re: to James Kriegers Comments on Aerobics
I write this in response to James Krieger's comments about aerobic
exercise and the Superslow Guild. I have yet to read Drew Baye's response
to this post, but I am sure one will be along soon.
Basically, I share similar views on aerobic exercise that Drew Baye and the SS Guild hold. I'd like to clear up some confusion.
When anyone such as myself states the inferiority of aerobics, it is not
done in complete disregard for some benefits of aerobics. I understand
that aerobics are beneficial to health. I also understand that performing
aerobics is better than sitting around watching TV for our sedentary
nation.
BUT...(you knew if was coming sooner or later) my supposition is that for
people who are able to use high intensity weight training exercise and are
after better body composition, aerobics are completely inferior to weight
training. There exist people who are too out of shape to try and go into
the gym and do deadlifts to failure. There are people who are too old and
the dramatic stress of weight training may be too great for their muscles
and bones. There are also people who do not want to go into a gym and
lift weights. They'd rather just walk around the block. There are
also people who have cardiac problems which high intensity activity
could aggrivate.
For all of the above cases, low intensity aerobic exercise may be better
than high intensity resistance training. The argument here is not whether
aerobics are better all around, it is whether those of us who subscribe to
the HIT Digest can benefit from it. As I explained earlier, anyone who
can do high intensity resistance training(SS, HD, HIT) stand to gain
nothing from performing aerobics in any way.
Also, many elderly people haev started low intensity weight training.
This is being prescribed more and more for them because the main reason
people gain weight as they age is because they lose muscle mass and retain
bodyfat. Thus their basal metabolic rate slows and since they don't
change their eating habits, they gain bodyfat and continue to lose muscle.
Resistance training can add muscle to their body, thus increasing the
metabolism and enabling them to lose fat and enjoy a superior bodyfat
ratio than before training.
For people such as myself interested in maximum muscle mass in minimum
time, high intensity exercise is superior for all the reasons Mr. Baye
addressed previously in this digest and on his SS web site(
www.superslow.com).
It is true that some people like running for more than physical reasons.
They may like running in groups or jogging alone. This reduces stress and
makes the rest of their day more enjoyable as a result.
For them, the social aspects and enjoyment are great. He should not stop
running as it may have a more negative effect on his life as a whole. The
same goes for a recreational basketball player. No one should give up
their life to look good. That is more unhealthy for the body in the long
run.
However, for anyone interested in maximum muscle in minimum time, nothing
beat high intensity anaerobic resistance training.
---
ZAP
http://geocities.datacellar.net/HotSprings/6026
-------------------- 4 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:33:17 EST
From: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
Subject: Aerobics is not exercise, and exercise is not supposed to be fun.
I agree with James Krieger that too large a percentage of our population are sedentary, however, I hardly think that encouraging them to perform activities which carry serious risk of injury and telling them that it will improve their health is the answer. If anyone wants to read the SuperSlow Exercise Guild's stance on aerobics, check out the web site. The information is there.
I am currently in the process of preparing the SuperSlow Exercise Guild's
newsletter on Bashing Aerobics Philosophy for the web. It will be on the site
within the next two weeks.
As for SuperSlow being boring, I also have to agree. It is hardly something I
enjoy doing. The workouts are so brutally intense that I often become nauseous
before I even begin to work out, due to the anxiety caused by thinking about
what I'm about to subject myself to. Why do I do it then? Because it is safer
and more effective than anything else out there. Nothing worthwhile comes
easy, and exercise is no exception. For exercise to be productive, it must be
demanding. If it is demanding enough to stimulate any meaningful physical
improvements, it is going to be uncomfortable, even painful, and therefore NOT
fun.
If the American public are too damn lazy or apathetic, or have their
priorities so mixed up that they can't spend an hour or less per week working
out because it "isn't fun," then they are going to get exactly what they
deserve. If people want more attractive, healthier, better conditioned bodies,
then they're going to have to WORK for it.
As for George Sheehan, MD, here are a few quotes from The Physician and Sportsmedicine which might prove to be somewhat insightful;
"You might suspect from the emphasis on cardiopulmonary fitness today that
training involves mostly the heart and lungs. Guess again. No matter what you
have been told, running primarily trains and conditions the muscles; the other
organs merely assist in realizing this functional potential. Almost all the
improvement in performance occurs because of circulatory changes in the
muscles and changes in the muscle cells, the engines that transform chemical
energy into mechanical energy."
Why not just address the muscles more safely and efficiently with HIT?
Another quote from Sheehan,
"At those times in the past when I viewed the body as a machine rather than a
function of the unified self, I pictured the heart as the engine. The heart is
all noise and movement, with an independent existence. It idles even when I am
at rest, and when I exert myself it dominates my senses. I can feel and hear
it; I can even see it on the EKG monitor during my stress test.
But the heart, for all its evident activity, is not my engine, The muscle
is...
"I can see why I thought it was the heart that did all those things. The term
"aerobic exercise," for one thing. It is scientifically correct; the muscle
performs the best with an adequate supply of oxygen. But the word "aerobic"
made me think of the heart and lungs. It emphasizes the organs that supply the
oxygen, not the muscle that uses it.
"So, too, with the stated goal of cardiopulmonary fitness. It is evident now
that the primary aim of an exercise program is MUSCULAR FITNESS [my emphasis
-A.B.]. One becomes and athlete because of athletic things that are happening
in the muscle.
"Another major distraction has been the use of maximal oxygen uptake as the
best measure of fitness. Not only does the name suggest that the heart and
lungs are the organs at issue, but the test result actually changes very
little with major improvements in fitness. Maximal oxygen uptake operates
within limits preset by heredity. We can ordinarily improve it by only about
20 percent."
I think Arthur Jones put it best when he said, "...the lifting of weights is
so much superior for the purpose of improving the cardiovascular condition of
a human being that whatever is in second place is not even in the running, no
pun intended. That is to say, running is a very poor, a very dangerous, a very
slow, a very inefficient, a very nonproductive method for eventually producing
a very limited, low order of cardiovascular benefit. Any, ANY, result that can
be produced by any amount of running can be duplicated and surpassed by the
proper use of weight lifting for cardiovascular benefits. Now I realize that
there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people in this country
who don't understand that, who don't believe that, who will not admit that.
Now these people are simply uninformed. Certainly, it's possible to run with
no benefit, it's possible to lift weights with no benefit. I'm talking about
the proper use of weight lifting; and properly applied, weight lifting will
improve your cardiovascular benefit to a degree that is impossible to attain
with any amount of running."
Andrew M. Baye
www.superslow.com
-------------------- 5 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:45:06 EST
From: DrewBaye <DrewBaye@aol.com>
Subject: Running: Benefit vs. Risk
James Krieger states, "...the health benefits of running outweigh the injury
potential."
What health benefits? Slight cardiovascular conditioning? An insignificant
number of calories burned? Both of these can be surpassed by proper strength
training.
What risks? Injuries to the joints and spine? Degenerative joint conditions? Muscular atrophy? Look at marathon runners. Most look like chickens not even fit to make soup of. If civilization were to collapse and we were to regress to the state of primitive savages, the joggers would be safe, no cannibal would waste their time chasing after such a scrawny, measly sack of bones.
In regards to the confusion between exercise and activities such as jogging, I often hear people say things like, "Well, anything is better than nothing." This is not true, doing nothing would be far better than doing something which could potentially harm you, and does not provide you with any meaningful benefits compared to the amount of time invested in it.
People desperately need exercise. Real exercise. And telling them that they
can benefit from jogging, doing the dishes, gardening, etc, is only going to
draw their attention away from real exercise; low force, high intensity
strength training. By convincing a person that all they need to do is go to
step aerobics, or use their "cardioglide" or some other piece of garbage, and
that they do not need to strength train, is doing them a great disservice. Not
that I give a damn about the rest of humanity, but I can't stand liars, even
if they don't know any better.
Andrew M. Baye
www.superslow.com
-------------------- 6 --------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:08:00 +1000
From: Teri Pokere <T.Pokere@uq.net.au>
Subject: Re:Re: Training Debates
The proof is in the pudding as they say. While the theories are just
that, until applied to check for their validity. I appreciate Dave
Staplins comments on how careful we must be to see if we are actually
measuring what we think we are.
I would like to know of people's experience with ANY techniques or training tips that may save myself or others wasted time and effort.
Please come forth because I know that there are many knowledgeable and
experienced lifters out there who may be able to help us all out. Write
them anonymously if you must, I'm sure Rob wont mind deleting personal
details if requested :).
> -------------------- 5 --------------------
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:48:23 -0600
> From: "Mike Strassburg"<MLSTRASS@hewitt.com>
> Subject: Re: HIT Digest, digest #90
Thanks Mike for your response, I was not addressing you specifically but
appreciate your comments about controlling those things that we can. If
we are just here to try and win a debate without trying some of these
things out we will merely be wasting our time.
Cya
Teri
-------------------- 7 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:12:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel Yourg <dyourg@teetot.acusd.edu>
Subject: movies and Canadian ants
And just what film are you talking about w.r.t. "U.S. spacemen fighting
giant
Canadian
ants"???
As I notice you Americans say, "What's that all about?" or "What's up with
that?".
Rob, I am sorry for any confusion. I believe your last movie review was "Starship Troopers," which I did not get to see. Upon further research, I realize the bad guys were "giant alien insects." Not Canadian ants, nor Canadian insects. Again, I am sorry. I must have confused aliens with Canadians. (You did review Starship Troopers for us, did you not?)
Apart from this, I am sincere in telling you I appreciate your reviews. Rental reviews are acceptable. I saw the Ali documentary and agree 100%.
Thank you,
Dan Yourg
-------------------- 8 --------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:30:31 -0500
From: Stephen Turner <smturner@golden.net>
Subject: Master Trainer
Rob, the Master Trainer stuff is at
Choose the link to 'articles', look for 'The Essence of Cardiovascular
Training', parts one and two. This stuff seems to be somewhat in agreement
with the Superslow viewpoint on aerobics. I suggest that this
re-examination of the benefits of aerobics would be a good topic for the
digest to knock around. Should be lively!
Regards, Steve
-------------------- 9 --------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:18:31 -0500
From: "reptile" <reptile@blast.net>
Subject: Re: Exercise Physiology vs. REAL Scientific Research
> From: DrewBaye
> In response to the distinction between exercise physiology "research" and
research in the classical > sciences performed by real scientists, I
recommend reading Vol. 1, Issues 1,2 and 3 of
> The Exercise Standard, which can be found at
>
> http://www.superslow.com/Standard.html
Drew,
Thank you so much for pointing out where I (and other Digest members) might
read about Super Slow (trademark) and their opinions concerning exercise
physiologists, research, and the field of exercise science. It has only
strengthened and confirmed my belief that Super Slow (trademark) seems to be
more concerned with wasting their time and bashing an industry (and
therefore those who work in it) rather than promoting what the "rest" of us
are trying to accomplish - simply improving the health and quality of life
for people.
(from the "Exercise Standard")....."But my frustration level with the
ever-worsening fitness industry leaves me no choice. Simply, it will never
improve unless someone -- apparently me and you -- take action to thwart
present practices."
Couldn't agree more.....
Are there problems in the field of exercise science? Obviously. Could we do
more to insure that instructors or scientists have the proper credentials
or harder courses towards degrees? Yes. I would never argue that point. In
the past few years of my career, I have worked (voluntarily) as an
undergraduate career counselor for those who have questions about the
industry. I have (voluntarily) taken in three undergraduate interns and
have placed many others in fitness jobs they wished to learn more about. I
have worked (voluntarily) with not one, but two colleges, to help smooth
out the direction of their current exercise degrees/programs and to discuss
what would best suit their students. I am applying for graduate status so
that I can conduct my own research and contribute to furthering my chosen
professional field............etc....etc...etc....
I think you all get the point. In case you don't though: I urge other
readers of this Digest (and yes Rob, we know it's cool) : ) and my peers in
the health and fitness industry to go ahead and listen to Super Slow.
Please. By all means, take action, strive for change. But TRY, instead of
promoting outdated newsletters that intend to intimidate many of us who
have worked way too hard to be successful in this field, try to be POSITIVE
about your action. Stand up for the field of exercise SCIENCE and help make
it a better place. (There are more important things I'd rather debate than
the 'title' of a degree/discipline.)
Don't "permit yourselves to become personally offended" by reading the
Super Slow newsletters (It's not worth it). Allow it to open your eyes and
respond to the challenge of correcting a confused and misguided industry --
the right way. Super Slow talks about "complaining in a productive way" -
if that's even at all possible - and "reaping a rewarding sense of
accomplishment with each victory fought and won by the SSE." I'd hardly say
Super Slow was "complaining in a productive way" - would you? (Raise your
hand if you're with me) And last time I checked, I wasn't fighting any war.
I was merely trying to give people the security of their health and
something to smile about.......while possibly helping the industry along
the way.
Okay. Enough said. Back to the business of workouts!
Stay healthy! = )
Ms. Rachael E. Picone
www.fitnesslink.com/exercise/tenlift.htm
p.s. I was never a "husky football player" or a "track man" or even a
"jock" (jock-ette?) for that matter. Would it be possible to go back and
update your ' two' stereotypes - uh, I meant "personalities," of fitness
professionals for the 90's to include something along the lines of "former
rock-band woman Generation X'er turned fitness pro?" (That whole section of
the newsletter is so outdated it really, no REALLY, made me laugh. I'll be
sure to share it even though it has no point whatsoever. Sorry Drew, but
your newsletters just ain't gonna cut it - the field of exercise science
that is.)
p.s. And yes, you have to hold a degree in a health related field to work
at AT&T or any other corporate
fitness center for that matter. And hurray for that. I happen to think
that's a good thing and a POSITIVE direction of the industry.
.
-------------------- 10 --------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:51:53 -0800
From: Andrzej Rosa <rosa@wsrp.siedlce.pl>
Subject: Re: Full Squats and Leg Extensions
Recently Tom wrote:
>So here are the questions? What do others on the list think about full
>squats and who does them? How do you feel about them? My goal before
>was to reach 300lbs for the summer in squats and now I have changed
>that goal to get back up to my 245lbs doing full squats. I can imagine
>how much weight I will be able to do on parallel squats if I reach
>245lbs on full squats.
I did some of full squats and also didn't feel any problems with my
legs. However i felt something wrong with my lower back so i stoped
(it was getting worse every time i tried them).
The problem with full squat is, that this excercice do not Hit quads
very hard. Especially, when you do not have power rack or any spotter
and you can't go really hard with them. I found cure for that problem
somwhere else. Hack squat (free weights). You can go really far with
them with almost no risk. No knee problems and your quads are in fire.
Once i tried superset them with regular suat and that was something
i will remember for ever.
Leg extention - I did them regurally when i began lifting, then avioded
them (my knee problems, i sometimes experienced stoped immediatly).
Recently i did one set as a postexhaust and powercheck. Of course my
legs are Much stronger than before, but my knees where sore (that bad
pain) for three days and i also felt them the week later during
normal squats.
P.S. >[Can someone post the URL of this site please?
>--Rob] - Richard Winnet's great site, "Master Trainer".
http://ageless-athletes.com/
--
Andrzej Rosa
mailto:rosa@wsrp.wsrp.siedlce.pl
-------------------- 11 --------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:42:22 -0800
From: Jon Ziegler <Rutger1@JPS.NET>
Subject: A good digest
Digest #93, in my opinion was one of the better ones ina while. Yes
there was still some tit-for-tat, but hey we'll always have that. The
heavy bag up the stairs was great. I don't have stairs, but after a
workout I will carry two 100 lb. dumbells down, and up my sloped
driveway. Try it.
Jon Ziegler
P.S. If a guy can run 5 miles a day, and that is his style. Hats off!
-------------------- 12 --------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:24:43 -0600
From: "Don Pendergraft" <dpendergraft@beckett.com>
Subject: Master Trainer URL
Point your browser to:
http://ageless-athletes.com/mt_toc.htm
Both articles are there. Thanks Hot Bot! :o)
Don P.
----------
> From: cyberpump@geocities.com
> To: HIT Digest <cyberpump@geocities.com>
> Subject: HIT Digest, digest #93
> Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:47 PM
snip
> P.S. I just got through my 4th super-high intensity cardio workout this
> morning. What a killer! I read about it at Richard Winnet's great site,
> "Master Trainer".
>
> [Can someone post the URL of this site please?
> --Rob]
>
> The 2 articles are about "The Essence of Cardiovascular
> Training". For anyone who wants to push their cardio system to the max,
> give the 20/10 interval routine a try!!
snip