From: gerald <gerald@evestamail.com>

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:53:59

To: WalterMartin@mail.serve.com

Subject: Re:Re: WM: Word Faith teaching

This is my first time writing to this forum. When I first read the message below from suprdave I knew right away that it must be talking about Fred Price. I think that what he says is true from the perspective that God would get Glory out of someone being healed, I don't think there is disagreement on this point. But as Mr. Price says in the entire quote:

This is similar to what was said by Charles and Francis Hunter:

This is classic Word of Faith teaching on health and healing, and the same can be applied to wealth. They both have said that you don't bring glory to God by being sick. Where does the Bible say that the Holy Spirit does not want to live in a body where it can't "see through the windows"? Where does the Bible say that God will be limited? Michelle brings up a good point in the ministry of Joni Eareckson Tada. We need to examine our lives and be very cautious before we make sweeping statements like those Fred Price has made that can't be substantiated by the Word. What about David Ring, the peacher with cerebral palsy? He is winning souls to the Lord and being used by God in a way that if he didn't have this disorder I don't think it would have the same impact. These are two good examples that God can use you just the way you are. What about Dave Roever (sorry about the spelling) who was disfigured by a phosphorus bomb in Vietnam. He is being used of God despite his healing not being manifested. If we are non-physically impaired (myself included) we need to look at what we are doing for the Lord compared to those with physical disabilities and handicaps and ask the question who really is limited? What are we doing compared to them?

I don't mean to focus on Fred Price, but since this was the basis for the discussion I would like to cite another quote by him below:

Here Mr. Price is blaming a person's death on their lack of faith or undeveloped faith. Mr. Price has also made the statement that he doesn’t allow sickness in his home, but his wife Betty came down with cancer and went through intensive chemo and radiation because of it. She eventually had to have a hip replacement due to the radiation destroying her hip joint. Mr. Price’s positive confession over his home did not work. I’m sure he would say that it was because of his wife’s underdeveloped faith that she became sick.

I have attended charismatic churches for about 16 years, and used to attend Lakewood Church here in Houston, Texas for many years. It was pastored by John Osteen who died about a year ago due to kidney complications. He taught some Word of Faith teachings and Kenneth Copeland spoke at his memorial service. Pastor Osteen died in his sickness. His positive confession did not heal him. The prayers of countless others did not heal him. I believe in healing and that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and the healings performed by Jesus and the Disciples can still be done today. This is not the issue with the WOF teachers, but their guarantee of healing in the atonement I believe is not based on scripture and not verified by the lives of those who believe in the teaching but died due to illness (Doyle "Buddy Harrison, son-in-law of Kenneth Hagin and Jamie Buckingham to name two). I say this because I have experienced WOF teachings, and cannot justify their teachings with those of the Bible. It is not meant to personally attack the teachers by disagreeing with them, but to examine their doctrines and teachings. Since these become interwoven it is hard to separate the two. I have watched Fred Price and enjoyed his Race, Religion and Racism teachings on Islam. I am not saying everything he and other WOF teachers teach are wrong, but certain teachings I believe can damage and destroy peoples lives. Due to the teachings on denial of symptoms, Christians have actually died because they did not want to seek medical attention. They wanted their faith to work for them. Others have left the church because the formulas of the WOF teachers did not work for them. In the April 1997 issue of Charisma magazine there is an article about preacher Mack Timberlake and his struggle with throat cancer. Due to this illness it said that Christians he knew were talking and wondering what sin Mack had committed to bring such judgment on himself. Church members left, and friends deserted him. If the members of his congregation were taught WOF teachings on sickness, health and healing, it is not surprising that they reacted as they did. I believe people should be informed about what the true teachings are about the WOF movement and then it is up to them to make up their own minds.

I am sorry to ramble, but I think that this is a very important and critical subject and should not be taken lightly. I am definitely not anti-charismatic or anti-Pentecostal, I believe that you can’t be dogmatic on the cessation of spiritual gifts and these reasons should not be used as a global condemnation of churches, groups or movements. It is interesting that the Assemblies of God (charismatic/pentecostal group) wrote a position paper called "The Believer and Positive Confession" that basically denounces this teaching as taught by the WOF movement (charismatic). Let's follow the example of the Berean's in Acts 17:10-11, "They searched the Scriptures day by day to check up on Paul and Silas' statements to see if they were really so." (Living)

EternlJoy3@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 2/16/00 8:59:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,

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>"Only"?

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>I don't know that I agree with you here, Dave.

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>Is God not glorified when His people who may be suffering physically, emotionally, financially, etc., yet who do not complain and do not blame God for their problems, and choose to praise Him throughout their ordeals? Is He not glorified when that happens? Was God not glorified when Job refused to curse Him or charge Him with wrong even though Job was suffering terribly? Was God not glorified when the early Christians kept the faith and persevered, even though they were severely persecuted for their faith? Is not God glorified in the life of our dear suffering sister Joni Eareckson Tada, whom God has not healed? No, Dave, I cannot agree with you. God does not "only" get glory out of those who are healed. He also is glorified by those who are not healed.

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>Michelle

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