Another question about what Fred Price has stated

Dave wrote:

>>>It is not the extreme "don't take medicine if you're sick" stuff they may have once said. You see, these guys were very zealous...much zeal with no knowledge. To my knowledge, Fred Price was criticized once by Hobart Freeman because Hobart heard Fred Price say that if you are sick, it's ok to take medicine. He called Fred Price a "wet water walker" meaning that he, Fred Price, is watering down his doctrine. Hobart Freeman did not believe in taking medicine or even herbal remedies, vitamins, etc. He condemned them and said that pharmacists were practicing witchcraft. I have Hobart Freeman's tapes. What they do teach is that we live by faith. And I've even heard them say that they will not make excuses or give reasons as to why someone died of sickness. They admit it's not their place to explain away. So I see that the WOF teachers have settled down in this area of teaching. As for individual WOF churches, you'll find extremes everywhere. Not all WOF churches are extreme. Some are Evangelical minded...wanting to reach souls and see them saved.

Gerald wrote:

Another question about what Fred Price has stated. The following quotes were given by Fred Price in the past:

"If you need a crutch or something to help you along, then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving to the point where you don’t need the crutch." (Faith, Foolishness, pg 93)

"When you have developed your faith to such an extent that you can stand on the promises of God, then you won’t need medicine. That’s the reason I don’t take medicine." (Faith, Foolishness, pg. 88)

I agree with Dave in that Hobart Freeman was not part of the WOF movement, so should not be lumped in with them. He did have extreme teachings of not taking medicine, and because of this he died of a medically treatable condition along with others in his congregation. The quote above by Fred Price does not say to not take medicine, but that once you have a developed your faith to such an extent (how is this verified?) then you won’t need medicine as he does. Again if this is an old quote please let me know. If you are a new believer in Mr. Price’s congregation, and hear or read something such as this stated above, won’t you want to try to develop your faith to the level that he has and not have to take medicine? If your faith is not developed to that level, but you think it is, and stand on the promises of God that you are healed but die, isn’t the proponent of such teaching responsible in some way? Especially if it is a false teaching, which I believe it is. Where is this stated in the Bible that once your faith is at a certain level you do not need to take medicine?

On page 513 of Kingdom of the Cults examples are given of those who followed Word of Faith teachings and positively confessed their healing but died. D. R. McConnell also cites several cases in his book A Different Gospel. I’m sure Mr. Price and others would not agree. They would say that it is the person’s responsibility to determine their level of faith. But who taught them the root of this teaching in the first place? Dave says below that what the WOF teachers teach is that we live by FAITH, and Fred Price above says that our FAITH needs to be developed to a certain extent in order to not need medicine. This may sound okay at first glance, but as Walter Martin said we need to define terms before we can carry on a meaningful and intelligent discussion. I believe the key question is the definition of "FAITH" used by the WOF teachers. The word FAITH is used in the terminology to describe the "Word of Faith" movement. This is not just used by those who are not in the movement but by those in it. Correct me if I am wrong, but they say we should have the "faith of God" not "faith in God". That we can use the same type of faith God used when he spoke the universe into existence. They cite Hebrews 11 as faith being the substance of things, not in the sense of assurance. For sickness, their faith is in the belief that Jesus died for our sins in the atonement, and so all of our sickness has already been healed, just as our sins. Because we confess our sins to be forgiven, by the spoken word and positive confession we can confess and claim our divine healing as well. If Fred Price does not believe in this please tell me, but I know other WOF teachers do. See below for quotes made by other WOF teachers that express the doctrine and teachings above.

The quotes made by Kenneth & Gloria Copeland are not that old and were made last year. The quote by Kenneth Hagin below is about his sister who died from cancer because her faith was not developed. Think about the definitions of faith used in the quotes below.

"My sister got down to 79 pounds. The Lord kept telling me that she was going to die. I kept asking the Lord why I couldn’t change the outcome. He told me she had had five years in which she could have studied the Word and built up her faith (she was saved), but she hadn’t done it. He told me she was going to die, and she did. This is a sad example, but it’s so true." (Charismatic Chaos, pg. 283, Kenneth E. Hagin, "Praying to Get Results" [Tulsa: faith Library, 1983])(bold added for emphasis)

"The Bible declares that the work was done 2,000 years ago. God is not going to heal you now—He healed you 2,000 years ago. All you have to do today is receive your healing by faith." (Christianity in Crisis, pg 242; "Rise and Be Healed!" (Benny Hinn)(Orlando, FL: Celebration Publishers, 1991), pg 44)

"I believe that it is the plan of God our Father that no believer should ever be sick…It is not—I state boldly—it is not the will of God my Father that we should suffer with cancer and other dread diseases which bring pain and anguish. No! It is God’s will that we be healed." (Kenneth Hagin, "Healing: The Father’s Provision," (Word of Faith (August 1977), 9)

"Well, first consider this: Believing that God can heal your body should be no different for you than believing He can forgive your sin. And yet, that truth becomes even more powerful when you realize that, not only can He forgive you and heal you—He already has!" (Kenneth Copeland, article entitled "How to be Healed")

"To possess healing, or anything from God, we first have to lay hold of the Word as ours. And we lay hold of the Word by receiving it by faith, and then confessing it. That’s the process that will get us saved. It’s the process that will get us anything else God has promised." (Kenneth Copeland, September 1999 Believer’s Voice of Victory magazine, pg 9)

"Yet, Jesus told His disciples in Mark 11:22, "Have faith in God." Or, as one translation puts it, Have the faith of God." (Kenneth Copeland, September 1999 Believer’s Voice of Victory magazine, pg 6)

"Do you see the process? Faith operates by believing and saying…and saying…and saying. It is our confession, or words of faith, that brings possession…Anything and everything we could ever need or want was bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. And as far as God is concerned, it all belongs to us the day Jesus was raised from the dead. The new birth, healing, deliverance…-all of it-belonged to us the day Jesus came out of the grave. It’s all ours, if we will but believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths." (Kenneth Copeland, September 1999 Believer’s Voice of Victory magazine, pgs 6-7)

"…After all, how could you possibly be critical of faith if you understood that God Himself, had to use faith to frame the universe." (Gloria Copeland, February 1999 Believer’s Voice of Victory magazine, pg 28)

Dave, if Fred Price does not hold to these teachings please let me know. If you think you can speak for the other WOF teachers then help us understand theses teachings. I don’t think you should feel obligated to do so if Fred Price does not agree with what I have quoted from other teachers.

In response to Dave’s last statement below, I agree that the WOF churches and teachers want to reach souls and see them saved. I believe the people who go to these churches are Christians and want to follow and serve the Lord just as Christians anywhere else. I am not in any way doubting their salvation, sincerity or love for the Lord. This can also be said of the Word of Faith teachers themselves.