OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

1. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

2. TRANSCRIPT

3. PORCELAIN POT MOUNTS

4. OPEN CHAT BEFORE AND AFTER TOPIC

WBS 17 Jun 98
Conservation Series with Moderator: Marilyn Light
TOPIC: Some Like It Wet: an overview of wetland and
               cloud forest species

Members present 25:

sparkysteve (Boca Raton FL)
Richard in West Palm Beach
marilyninOttawa
yassirI (Washington DC)
Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Ann (Dallas TX)
nodosa (Ed Wright) (briefly - get well, Ed!)
jlenev (Joan from NV)
IslandSue (Vancouver B.C., Canada)
AndyNVA (Northern Virginia)
sibbyjean (Sylvia - Boca Raton FL)
jfall (Jay, Key West FL)
foxtail2 (Doug - Palm Harbour FL)
uncleearl (Vacaville CA)
Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
CaryStarr (Boca Raton FL)
emf21(Emily, Savannah GA)[Emily is on Member's Growing Areas!
gaillevy (Boca Raton FL)
Evlyn (Northwestern Louisiana - guess I'll take the Kodak DC-40 over there and get photos of Evlyn's growing area *S*)
bmtorchids (Northern CA)
55SS (James in San Jose)
jagso (Bombay) [Welcome, JAGS! Two hours late, my friend!]
sd90mac (Bob from Mississippi)
LMD INC (sure wish I knew where you are from LMD *S*)
runnerrick (Rick, Concord CA) [WELCOME back, stranger!]
marilyninOttawa
Hello everyone. Tonight we are going to discuss orchids that like it wet.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Marilyn you are here, does that mean it's time to get serious.

marilyninOttawa
That's right Gail.
You all should have had an opportunity to read the brief intro that was circulated before tonight's discussion. My first question to you is: Is anyone growing orchids hydroponically?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Point of information, Marlilyn. By hydroponically do you mean completely without any potting medium as we are all used to?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I grow the phrags in saucers of water but they are still potted up so that doesn't count?

Ann12
In a way, I grow vandaceous orchids hydroponically. I put them in empty baskets and water the roots a couple of times a day in the summer.

marilyninOttawa
My understanding of hydroponics John is in a liquid medium with minimal physical support. The support medium could be Haydite (fired clay) or some other inert coarse material.

Ellen, For the purposes of discussion, I think we can consider Phrags grown as you suggest.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Are we discussing water culture - is this the same thing?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida
I have never tried hydroponics.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Like growing phals in pure gravel then pumping water, etc., in several times a day?

(Hydroponics can include a water circulation system...ML)

marilyninOttawa
How do you water the roots, Ann? I have seen Vandas raised with their roots each in a Coke bottle filled with dilute manure tea!

marilyninOttawa
Gail. Water culture is fine.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I took Ellen's advice and have my Phrags sitting in saucers of water.

YassirI
Hi, I'm new. Don't know what the protocol is for this chat group, but my name is Yassir, and I'm pleased to be part of this discussion. I'll be hosting a chat next week so I want to try this out. I have tried growing phrags hydroponically in straight perlite. I have found that with most hydroponic methods, water quality becomes of the utmost importance.

Ann12
Marilyn, I water with a hose, with dilute fertilizer pumped through a hozon. I also have recently started spraying them with a rather fine mist from a little 3-pint pump-up sprayer that I recently discovered, and just love. I've bought three of them--one for fertilizer, one for orthene, and one for Safers soap. So I can pick one up and spray whenever I see a need.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I saw the hydroponics at Disney world--and that is a little different that 'water culture'.

marilyninOttawa
During much of June and July, I spend my time in wetlands (fens and bogs), observing various native orchids. Some really like it wet.

Ann12
Welcome, Yassir.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I also have an overhead watering system (straight tap water) that comes on automatically once or twice a day.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I've heard of growing tomatoes hydroponically, that seems quite successful.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What constitutes really wet? I find my medium breaks down rapidly on the phrags because of the constant water.

marilyninOttawa
Welcome Yassir. I agree that water quality is very important. How do you control water quality?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I have grown a Phrad schlimii 'Wilcox' and Nitidissimum sitting in saucers of water for many years.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
How often do you have to repot, Ellen. Do you get any rot?
[Gail, you will need to keep a close watch - your Florida humidity is not that of Ellen's in NY. I too put saucers under phrags, but only when natural Louisiana humidity is low. And I found I had to repot a couple phrags after 8 months. I have slotted pots and keep water 1/4 inch or less deep...lots of slot air space above water, plus I have a single layer of "peanuts" in bottom of each pot and the mix is better than 80% charcoal and perlite...mlg]

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have to repot every 6 to 9 months on all but besseae flavum which doesn't seem to like the saucer. (Phrag. besseae roots are known to NOT like to sit in water - it is the exception to that method with phrags...mlg]

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
How deep is your saucer, Ellen?
Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
This year has been bad for rot because it is cool and wet.

marilyninOttawa
Some orchids such as Phrags, naturally grow in wet areas beside streams. Water circulation probably varies quite a bit. The main thing is that the orchids always have ready access to water. Using a rather inert medium when growing Phrags wet would probably solve the medium breakdown problem.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I use the clear plastic saucers you put under the plants when they are in a basket.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
John my saucers are 3 inches deep. Some people say you shouldn't cover the holes on the bottom of the pots but I fill the saucers and let them evaporate.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Welcome Yessir, you been here before haven't you?

YassirI
Thanks all for the welcome. I obtained a water quality report and looked at the few published references out there. I looked at total dissolved solids (TDS) in ppm as well as as pH. I discovered that TDS was OK for straight watering, but not with fertilizer as the TDS shoots up. I also found that Washington DC tap water is very alkaline (8.1), too alkaline in fact for most plants. I believe that orchids in particular like their water on the acid side. So I controlled my water quality by switching to RO!

marilyninOttawa
Interesting comments about the besseae flavum, Ellen. Does anyone know if that form comes from a somewhat drier habitat than the red form?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I was wondering, Ellen, because mine hold not more than 1 inch of water max.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have two, Marilyn, and neither grow well in the saucers. I have about 80 phrags and those two are different.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Marilyn, besseae normally grows dryer than other phrags. They grow on VERY steep hills with good drainage.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Gail, I get my saucers from places like the market. They too are the clear types used under houseplants.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, I'm a phrag addict and I buy every new hybrid that comes out.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Marilyn, my Disa cardinalis x watsonii is in bloom again, not from the same plant but from a keiki that came up from it.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
The problem with the water in saucers is you must repot and I think it sets the plant back a little, especially the Grandes and caudatums.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Barbara, do you ever get seed from your Disa?

marilyninOttawa
I try to use rainwater which is acidic thanks to dissolved carbon dioxide and sometimes sulphur and nitrogen oxides too. I found that feeding can successfully managed by replacing plain water (in the saucer) with diluted fertilizer solution then flushing with plain water the next day. Thanks Andy for the comment.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Evidently they like the saucers because the roots of some are out of the pot bottom and into the saucer.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Ellen, Try Ed's carpet padding trick instead of saucers of water. I put some small phrag seedlings on one and they are really starting to grow strongly even though we have had poor weather so far this year. The padding is in a cafeteria type plastic tray.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
John, I would worry about what 1 plant might pass to another. By using individual saucers, they each have their own water supply.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I doubt that you would have any problems that way Ellen but of course you have to do what you are happy with.

Evlyn
I tried the cafeteria tray bit and it got all black and ugly. Now I am trying a regular flat that is set on the pad and the pots never come in contact with the pad itself.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Evlyn - that should work fine. I just throw the pad away when it gets too bad. It is very cheap (Mine was free!!!!)

marilyninOttawa
I use cleaned 1 lb margarine tubs for each pot and these comfortably contain 1/2 to 1 cup of water. I prefer to keep each pot with its own water container to avoid disease problems.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Marilyn, I had to learn that the hard way. Almost lost my first besseae.

Evlyn
HI--I've have a vanda sitting in a gallon jar of water--does that count?

marilyninOttawa
Hi, Evlyn. Tell us how your Vanda is doing?

Evlyn
Vanda is doing fine--I just forget it when I fertilize so it hasn't bloomed.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Andy, no. Disa sent out so many babies, I got 5 babies from the same plant, in separate pots. The one I didn't cut off is in bloom right now.

marilyninOttawa
I have raised Draculas and Masdevallias in hydroponic gravel with water and they flourished. I think that it might be worthwhile trying a variety of inert media. Perlite is one but there are many other pellet types on the market. Enquire locally.

YassirI
Speaking of phrags, my understanding is that the long-petalled types (caudatum, lindenii, wallisi) do not like wet feet as they grow in slightly drier habitats. I do not let these sit in water unless it really hot or they are in bud/bloom.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, which phrags are natural hybrids?

marilyninOttawa
Ellen, you are asking a challenging question. There are several Phrag. caudatum, for example, which have been shown to have more than the typical 28 chromosomes. Are these merely mislabelled or misidentified plants or are they natural hybrids?

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
I have 3 big Slc. Jewel Box, all in miracle rocks, is doing well, since I have the bad habit of over watering.

marilyninOttawa
We have to observe our orchids in order to discover their needs. Temperature and light are two other factors to be considered. If the weather is a bit too warm and the plants have a more ready access to water, they will probably be less stressed than if they were without the water.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have 3 pearcei that in no way resemble each other in size or leaf shape but the flowers are very similar.

YassirI
To follow up on Marilyn's comments, I have had fewer problems by keeping the phrags wetter in hot weather. In the past I have lost a few to a fungal rot on the leaves that starts at the base and quickly decimates the plant.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, I have a question about plants collected from the wild. At the New York Show we had several dealers from Ecuador and Columbia. They said they were greenhouse grown plants but they certainly didn't look it. They seem to stand still with little growth for about 6 months. Some of my friends lost the plants. Mine are now growing. Were these collected plants?

[In response to [Ellen's] question about collected plants at the NY show: It is my understanding that many "nurseries" in Central and South America grow their plants outdoors and not at all in the "clean" potted greenhouse environments that we use in the States. For this reason, it is not uncommon to import legitimate plants from these places that appear to be collected. It is also not uncommon for these places to acquire collected plants that were legitimately obtained from areas that were being destroyed (i.e., to make room for a new Blockbuster Video). So, you should not be entirely concerned that you bought politically incorrect plants. It is possible, but also may not be true of your purchase...Rocky Giovinazzo]

marilyninOttawa
As many of you already know, I grow Disas in water. They are in full sun when it is cool but have light shade when the temperature rises above 70F. Although they were originally potted in sphagnum moss, this once dried moss is now very alive and is my best indicator of potential problems. If moss leaves become brown, water quality is not good. With Phrags, poor water quality shows up as brown leaf tips.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What else can cause brown tips? I only have one pearcei that has them but all the others are fine. What else can it be?
Do phrags benefit from crushed oyster shells like the paphs?

Evlyn
Can crushed sea shells be substituded for oyster shell?

marilyninOttawa
What genera Ellen? I cannot really give an opinion without having seen the plants and even then, the evidence would be only suggestive. Plants collected from the wild may never thrive the way seed-raised plants will. I suggest that the factors selecting for plants which germinate and grow in the wild can be quite different than for which seeds germinate and which seedlings thrive in a flask. Now that you have the plant, be patient.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I got a wallisii, lindenii and besseae.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Ellen---maybe over-fertilizing?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
We bought becuase the were large plants and the price was great.

marilyninOttawa
Individual plants do behave differently Ellen. Try varying temperature with the one showing distress. Measure the temperature in the pot and try to cool the root area by about 5F if possible. Measure to be sure about cause and effect. Observe the plant for several weeks under the new treatment for signs of improvement.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Could the treatment they received on entering the country cause the amount of plants that didn't make it.

marilyninOttawa
Any sea shells will contain sodium (sodium chloride-salt)as a leftover from their marine existence. Let the shells weather in rain for a few good soakings before using.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
marilyn--I thought shells were for Calcium?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, can we move to masdevallias. I have Masd. Ova avis which grows like Jack's beanstalk but never blooms. Someone told me to put it in the refrigerator.

Evlyn
I bought some miltonias from Micklow in Florida and there were sea shells mixed in the media.

yassirI
One can also use dolomitic lime which also contains Magnesium. If it is finely powdered however, it runs through the mix. I believe most phrags grow in acidic media though.

jfall (JFALL)
Hey sparky, hot enough up there? I guess we're talking about cool growing orchids, we can only dream eh?

marilyninOttawa
Many Paphs grow on limestone outcrops or in soil developed over limestone or where groundwater flows over limestone. The limestone (calcium carbonate) provides a source of carbonate ion. The presence of carbonates in the soil/medium buffers the effect of any naturally occuring acids. Many terrestrial orchids thrive where free carbonates are present in the soil. Whether the plants need the quantity of crushed limestone/shells sometimes added to media remains to be determined. I have recently observed cypripedium flask-raised seedlings perfectly happy in a peat/perlite medium. Their parents live in a highly buffered carbonate rich medium. I really cannot say if adding these materials helps. I do not think that the additions cause problems though.

Many Masdevallias will not flower if they are not exposed to the appropriate cold period. Even warm-growing Masd. livingstoneana responds to a brief chill in autumn with masses of flowers. I do not grow the species you mention, Ellen, but I know that some cool-growing masdevallias respond to temperatures as low as 3-5C. Most respond to chilling around 10C (50F).

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, this plant which started in a 2 inch pot now sits in two 4 inch pots in less than a year. Vigorous, but that's it.

marilyninOttawa
Phrags respond to applications of chelated iron. Those with yellow foliage green up quickly. I wonder if anyone has measured the pH of the natural streamside medium of Phrags? I was recently surprised when measuring the pH of wet peat in which Epipactis gigantea was thriving. It was heavily buffered and pH 7.9!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Where do you get the iron?

jfall
I get to Colombia fairly often and can attest that the areas that Masdevallias and other cool growing plants proliferate are bone chilling cold and with the windchill factor at times are well below freezing.

marilyninOttawa
Orchids growing in the wet are not necessarily cool growing although many are.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What light is recommended for phrags?

marilyninOttawa
Phrags respond to bright light (about 2500-3000 foot candles). Many of our successful growers raise them in the house on a counter, several feet from the nearest window. Plants receive some direct sunlight.

marilyninOttawa
You can try the refrigerator, Ellen, but I would wait until autumn, letting the plant be exposed to both cool nights and the shortening day. Just watch for frost. About two to three weeks treatment should do the trick.

jfall
The only reason that many of the cloud mist areas do not get a freeze is because of the dampness.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
That will convince my husband that I'm crazy.

marilyninOttawa
Chelated or sequestered iron should be available at major nursery outlets. Certainly it will be available in the south as it is commonly used on Hibiscus and on Citrus. Many orchid fertilizers such as Dynagro list it as one of their components. [and azaleas!...mlg]

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Ellen, I took an entomology course and used to keep insects in the freezer.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have had very little success with Dynagrow products.

marilyninOttawa
The coldest I can attain indoors is about 12C. That is when it is close to -40F outdoors! In autumn, (September/October) many nights are chilly but not frosty and that is my best chance to get the cold the plants need.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I thought cool masd. would not grow well either. This plant grows and grows.
(Cool growing Masdevallias can grow well at higher temps but simply will not flower. ML)

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I even grow the intermediate masd. cool and they produce more flowers.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Barbara, why????? it would not bloom!!!! I tried to keep a Miltonia in the fridge for a few summer months (just at night) but the heat of the day was too much for it and it just died anyway. Miltoniopsis type.

marilyninOttawa
Whatever fertilizer you intend to use, read the list of contents. If chelated iron is included it is certain to be listed.

Ellen,Smthtown,NewYork
Marilyn, I grow all my phrags in a window made when I knocked out my dining room wall. It goes from floor to ceiling. I only keep those phrags such as Rosy Dawn,Grande, etc which are too big for the house, in the greenhouse.

jfall (JFALL)
I have been keeping an Anguloa clowesii here in Key West outside with nights from June on inside and until July and then indoors with AC all day and night.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, do you grow odontoglossums?

marilyninOttawa
I have a few Odonts but more intergenerics. Space is always a problem. One Oda. Belle Houge Point is a beautiful yellow. I just noted that it has two spikes on the way!

Evlyn
I could do that, Barbara. I have one refrigerator that I only put drinks and batteries and stuff like that--no food because I am not going to clean two refrigerators.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Living in New York I am moving more toward the cool orchids because it is less expensive to run the greenhouse.

marilyninOttawa
Anyone thinking of refrigerating orchids should first check the temperature in the fridge. Plants could freeze! Also, plants can be refrigerated at night but should be in light during the day. It is not a good idea to chill plants while potted in soggy medium. Keep them on the dry side.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Marilyn, about Oyster shell calcium, do you think, the calcium tablet that I take everyday, it'll do the same for the plants?

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
I guess all of these 'wet' plants like it cool, something we don't see any of around here anymore.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Barbara I use the crushed oyster shells they use for birds. Much cheaper.

jfall (JFALL)
Dear Native Heart, Ain't that the truth not a drop of water here in Key West for 6 weeks.

marilyninOttawa
What you take daily, Barbara, may be Calcium gluconate. Check the bottle.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Jay, you are under pretty strict water restrictions ALL the time, how do you keep your orchids watered?

marilyninOttawa
Plants that normally grow in the wet in warmer climates invade drier terrain where the air temperature is cooler, e.g., Platanthera dilatata grows only in the wettest parts of fens locally. Day temps in summer can soar into the 90's and 100's. But out west in the mountains, this same species grows in drier conditions. Water is nearby but the plants don't have to be sitting in it. Temperatures there are never more than 80F and for brief periods. Soil temps are in the 60F range.

jfall (JFALL)
All of you cool to cold growers out there that have photos of there plants can e-mail them to me to be included in my orchid species encylopedia that now has 470 species in 154 genera Check and see if your favorite species is represented, if not send it in and get full credit and links to your homepages if you have them. Visit often as it is always growing.

jfall (JFALL)
Dear Jane, Actually I meant no rain, there is no restriction at this time. Soon?????

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
I just heard that water is very expensive and that you may not have lawns, etc.

marilyninOttawa
We had water restrictions early this year but the 8-week drought has now thankfully broken. Nothing like a good soaking rain to do wonders for orchids (and the rest of the garden).

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.
Marilyn, you are coming to our society meeting next month, looking forward to meet you. I'm with the Diablo View Orchids.

jfall (JFALL)
Dear Jane, water is expensive, and I water often to beat the heat. Just the price ya gotta pay to play.

marilyninOttawa
Barbara. Likewise. I am looking forward to seeing how Diablo members grow their orchids.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Marilyn, we always have a big show & tell table. Just last month, we had to limit the show plants to two per member. Otherwise we would be at the meeting all night.

marilyninOttawa
Barbara. I manage our Ottawa Orchid Society show table. We judge by category too with a discussion of the winners. It is a major part of each meeting.

Native Hert (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
At Fort Laud, we only discuss the blue ribbon winners in each category, same at DBOS. At Coalition of Orchid Species we get to discuss any plant in bloom that we bring in to the meeting, each person discusses his or her own plants. Species only.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
We have ribbon judging too. However, with the guest speaker and coffee, the meeting just went on too late.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Barb---where we have our meeting, at 10:00 PM they come in and start folding up the chairs!

marilyninOttawa
We meet on a Sunday afternoon. The meeting starts around 2 and lasts until 4-4:30 depending upon the program.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, I will get in touch with our officers and when you are coming our way maybe you can include us in your trip.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Marilyn, I am going to try a Phrag in a hydroponic situation, I will let you all know how it turn out.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Jane, don't try on a besseae hybrid or species.

marilyninOttawa
Good point, Ellen. Phrag. Hanne Popow grows well hydroponically though.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
OH, the point is that besseae doesn't care for hydroponic growing conditions??? [Right! Phrag. besseae and it's hybrids do NOT like wet feet...see other "dry foot" phrags earlier in this transcript...mlg]

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)

Ok, You know, several people in this oven we call South Florida ARE doing very well with besseae, and the hybrids. We see them at the orchid meetings, they don't have the size or color that they achieve in cooler climes, BUT THEY LIVE!!!

marilyninOttawa
Jane. If you can, shade the container to keep the root area as cool as possible. You can do this with ferns or something else. If you can, keep a weekly log of the plant condition such as new leves, whenthey appear and how fast they grow. I wish you success with your trial.

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
Maybe someone can help?..I switched to all Peters fert., about 5 months ago. I have noticed all my plants are putting out 'unusual' flowers! Maybe double columns, attached petals, double lips, very strange occurrences! this has never happened to me before! Orchidists say they feel it is due to Fertilizing! The only difference is changing to 'all' Peters..........?

marilyninOttawa
Don't know what is up Cary. That does sound strange. Has anyone in the neighborhood been using herbicide? What water have you been using?

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale):.
Cary, I use mostly Peters, have for years, no problems. did you do anything else different??? maybe it is the heat.

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
Only my water (CITY)... it never happened before! Maybe 8 or 9 plants. One plant put out a spike then switched what was going into bud, and switched over to growing leaves on the spike! Marilyn it's very confusing...

[Sounds exactly like the experience I have when changing fertilizers, particularly on plants which are close to forming a new pseudobulb: sheathing on a "too short" pseudobulb, some flower deformities...this happened to a few plants when I first switched to Dyna-Gro, and to a lesser extent when I recently changed to Wundergrow. I have found it temporary, and only occurs on plants caught with new chemicals at a particular stage of development. Wondering if there is any printed observations on this phenomenon, and if it might be best to make such changes AFTER the bloom cycle...or only when the weather is cool??? But then, we have mixed collections with differing bloom times, so likely it's a matter of accepting these "deformities" on a few plants to achieve the benefits of a new fertilizer...mlg]

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Cary--what rate do you fertilize? did you change from previous?

jfall (jay in Key west)
Dear Cary, a couple of your symptoms could be thrips, the attaching of the petals and stunted or mishaped flowers and columns, how about it? do the edges of the sepals and petals look dry?

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
OK you all! I'll ease up a bit.......(I still think it has something to do with Peters... It never did this before! DOUBLED FLOWERS attached to each other?????hehehe! not really funny though,There goes my awards!

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
jay, I did have a problem with THRIPS!

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Cary, sounds like heat. Like when lettuce 'bolts' in the heat. I had an Onc. Kanno do that last summer, started bloom spike and then changed its mind and made a skinny ugly psuedobulb, THEN bloomed just fine later that summer.

marilyninOttawa
Cary. I think that your plants are reacting to the high night temperatures. It is a classic response. As they have been stressed, ease off on the fertilizer until the temps cool a bit. Keep up watering and misting.

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
No Sparky! I still do it every Sunday! and I did not change the amount of chemical! I still use UNDER the amount they require!

yassirI
Good night all..its getting late here on the east coast. Thanks Marilyn,and others, for a great discussion. See you next week...

marilyninOttawa
Glad to have you on board tonight Yassir. Thank you for all the useful comments.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, have you tried a manure tea made from poultry manure?

marilyninOttawa
No, Ellen.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
sounds yummy, Ellen *G* do you have chickens???? I have bunnies, would that make a good fertilizer tea.....because just two bunnies make a LOT of 'fertilizer'.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
We have a nursery with llama manure too. I was using an Amway product called the real poop. It really worked well. I have been using Wundergrow for the past two months but I think I am going back to the manure tea and an alternating bloom booster.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
All my phrags throw 2 or 3 growths with the tea. The Wundergrow is not as successful with the phrags. I have a Dick Clemens seedling about two years, three flower spikes with the manure tea.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Thanks, Marilyn, for the hints and info, not many of these orchids will grow in SF but will try the Phrag thing. Night, night. *poof*

marilyninOttawa
Good night Jane. Must plan a warm-growing orchid topic for the future. Vandas anyone? [I vote "yes", Marilyn...mlg] Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Thunder in the background, will have to quit. Thank you, Marilyn. It was great. Lots of info on my favorite orchids. Nite all.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Marilyn, it's really been nice talking with you, will see you on the July 9th meeting. Have a good trip coming to Calif.

marilyninOttawa
I think that California has had enough rain for a while, don't you?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida
We need some of that rain!
marilyninOttawa
Thank you everyone for a delightful discussion. It is amazing what threads can arise. Good night.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
I think so Marilyn, it's been sunny and hot for a week now. Good night to all. Until next week.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Thanks, Marilyn.

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Porcelain pot mounts for orchids keep plant root cooler through evaporation - also, as you water the contents of the pot wash over the roots. Pictorial Description

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Richard in West Palm Beach
See this website:
Amorphophallus titan or "corpse flower" from Indonesia. This flowering is so rare they update the website every two days.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Barbara the Arandas which are crosses seem to stand the cooler weather better.

Richard in West Palm Beach
Also, some of the Vandas can be on the cool side -- like V. coerulea. Try hybrids with it as one of the parents.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Gee what a shame I was just at Fairchild Monday night for the Coalition meeting, should have gone to look.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
You're right, Richard.Those are the ones that are blooming for me now.

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Richard, that is some plant!

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Hi Ann, nice to have you here. How are your bulbos doing?

Richard in West Palm Beach
Yes, so far the flower bud is 52 inches high.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I guess it won't wait until next month's meeting to bloom!

bmtorchids (Barbara, the heat is here Calif.)
Hi Ed, heard you were under the weather, how are you doing now?

nodosa
Hi, Barbara - Just stopped in a minute. Can't handle the screen so I'll say ta ta.

Ann12
Hi, Gail, Barbara. The bulbos are doing great. B. umbellatum, macranthum, and gracillimum are blooming, that I know of. I've squirted them with Wundergrow. Maybe that makes a difference. I also have a white vanda blooming.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Gene Monnier gave us a fantastic talk on Plicate leaf species, great slides too.

55SS (James in San Jose)
HI all - just got home from work

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
James!

55SS (James in San Jose)
IF nothing is going on on Saturdays, then I'll be at chat, otherwise, I can't come till school starts again.

CaryStarr (Cary~~Boy is it hot,in Boca Raton,Fl.~~)
Tell them, James, you need off Wed. evenings.....!???

Ellen,Sm,ithtown,NewYork
Storm over, I'm back.

55SS (James in San Jose)
Hey, is anyone going to the slipper symposium?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
No James, I dont need any slippers--maybe sneakers.

jagso (ORCHIDS-The most wonderful thing on earth.)
Hello.. It is morning here in Bombay.. I just managed to log in after a long wait.

I just managed to get the picture uploaded from my system.. I hope the thing works.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I'm glad I got this straightened out. I know I'm new to the safari and really located away from all of you but I'd like to be part of this group. I feel better. [Ellen, safariers come from Hong Kong, Canada, Peru, Hawaii - and JAGS trying to be heard from Bombay *S*. You ARE a part of this group, Ellen - we welcome you!...mlg]

sd90mac (sd90mac)
Lois, I don't understand how this works. [Can't tell who you are - sure hope you are on the mail list and see this! Chat begins two hours earlier than you arrived on Wed, June 17th. If you would like to meet here some time just to try the room out, email me and we'll set up a time...mlg]

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
What do you need help on?

jagso
When does this start.. Jags

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Starts at 6PM pacific time - Wednesday and Saturday.

jagso
You mean I am late for the day.. woops Night?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
yeah---just a little late!

LMD INC
Anyone still here?

jagso
Well It is almost morning her in Bombay.. and by the time you get up and log the session gets over. It has happened several times. May be Saturday I should try early...Bye Jags.

LMD INC
Hi, sparky and ellen.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Sort of LMD---but I'm on my way out!
Nite, Jags---your name sounds familiar! [Familiar, sparks, cause this is the fella who runs the Orchid Webring Link you carry on your homepage *S*...mlg]

LMD INC
Bye, all.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Nite, all!

runnerrick
My goodness 20 min left and hardly anyone here. Hi there, long time no talk.

sd90mac
Is anyone out there growing Blc. Harlequin Act 1?

runnerrick
Oh well, I guess that the chat is over. And I thought that I could make the last 20 minutes, at least. Kathy, are you there?

No, but I have a C. heathii in bloom right now...beautiful!

sd90mac
How long have you been growing, runnerrick?

runnerrick
Hi sd90mac, you can call me rick. I've been growing bout 3 years or so now... not long but the plants seem to do pretty well for me. What do you grow (orchids, of course)?

sd90mac
Glad to hear newcomers. I've been growing and breeding orchids for 35 years. Started when I was 14.

runnerrick
Super, I love to meet others with more experience. Maybe I can learn something. BTW, was Marilyn Light presenting tonight? [Yep!]

runnerrick
PS, What kind of orchids do you specialize in?

sd90mac
I have C. guttata var. leopoldii 'Orchidglade' AM/AOS blooming now with 33 flowers. I've had it since 1983. [Ah! I know who you are by the guttata! Hello, Bob from Mississippi!...mlg]

I know lois is probably tired of hearing of guttata. I have grown from a-z. Probably have killed more than the average person.

runnerrick
sd90mac, where do you live?

sd90mac
I really have no speciality. I can't grow Onc. papilio or Harlequin.

runnerrick
guttata is very pretty, but then again, I have a soft spot for most orchids. I've got a couple of Laelia purpuratas in bloom too - only about 8 blossoms each though.

sd90mac
I am in Mississippi. We can grow just about any intermediate or warm growers. We have an abundance of HUMIDITY.

runnerrick
Miss. ought to be very good for orchids, plenty of humidity although maybe too much heat. Papilio should grow well, if given enough light and a fair amount of water. I have two in bloom right now and a third just beginning to put up a spike. I don't count them as regular orchids as they are too difficult to take to society meetings with their long spikes.

sd90mac
I've had to start a new collection recently due to a couple of calamaties. I'm looking for Onc. staceyi, blooming size if I can get it.

runnerrick
Oh Oh, it's getting time for me to turn into a pumpkin. I'm from the west but have to be up very early tomorrow. We'll chat another time as shortly. I'll be able to work more orchid chats back into my schedule. Lois will be thrilled to hear that as I owe her a presentation.

[Lois is thrilled, both by your return and the promise of a presentation...mlg]

sd90mac
As long as the humidity is high, heat won't hurt. I grow everything under 55% shade.

runnerrick
Wish I could help on staceyi for you but don't know of any. I'll keep the eyes open. Got to go...