OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*



THOSE ADORABLE MINIS

Moderator: Marilyn H.S. Light
WBS, Wed, 12 Aug 98

  1. OrchidSafari DALLAS GET-TOGETHER!

  2. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

  3. TRANSCRIPT

OrchidSafari GET-TOGETHER IN DALLAS!!!

Ann Herrington, President Greater North Texas OS (GNTOS), read the transcript that mentioned an OrchidSafari meeting at the GNTOS-hosted Southwest Orchid Growers Assn (SWROGA) fall show and meetings, and took it up at her 11 August show meeting. [SWROGA is the southwest U.S. version of "Orchid Congress" in other sections of the country; it includes seven states: Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana - 34 AOS societies].

She reports that everyone is properly thrilled that OrchidSafari members want to meet at our show. The affiliated societies breakfast will be at 7:30 Saturday morning (Nov 14), SWROGA committee meetings at 9:00, delegates meeting at 9:30 (all of this at the Holiday Inn Select), judging over at the Judging Center at 11:00, then speakers at 2:30 and 4:30 at the Civic Center. An auction at 6:00 preceded the buffet banquet at 7 at the hotel. Whew!! That's a tight schedule.

So! Sunday morning is wide open with here's nothing planned until the show opens at 10...and Ann has invited OrchidSafariers (and spouses) to Sunday breakfast at her house!

OK! Let's hear from you! You folks in the judging program: This is a great opportunity to meet with OS friends while getting TWO judging points: Friday night AOS Judging at the show and again Saturday at the Judging Center! Then there's our great get-together at Ann's Sunday a.m.!

Hotel is the Holiday Inn Select ($65/nite). Info re speakers and vendors to follow.

Start making plans and RSVP to
Ann Herrington
annh@airmail.net

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PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

©THOSE ADORABLE MINIS
by Marilyn Light

Miniature orchids are truly in a class of their own. Many hobbyists develop a passion for the tiniest of the tiny, the perfectly proportioned miniature orchids. Proud growers often providing a magnifying glass for the observer to view the dainty flowers!

The definition of miniature stretches a bit to accommodate small, naturally compact specimens over a wide range of genera but everyone agrees that small, poorly grown specimens of otherwise large plants are not minis! Neither are young plants of orchids likely to grow considerably larger. By definition on some show schedules, orchids such as Cattleya walkeriana, Broughtonia sanguinea and some of their hybrids could fall into the miniature category. The definition often cites plant height, e.g., 6 inches excluding inflorescence, as the measure of classification for ribbon judging. So mini can micro- or macro-mini!

It can be a challenge to grow miniature orchids to perfection. Just as minis can fall victim to neglect when hidden or shaded by bigger benchmates, they can also suffer from an over abundance of care. Contrary to popular assumption, minis are not really more difficult to grow than their larger cousins, they are simply smaller orchids, no more or less difficult to grow than larger plants. They present the same challenges as to temperature, humidity and lighting requirements as do their larger cousins. Some can be downright temperamental and others, very forgiving. These are some of the clues we can use to successfully raise miniature orchids.

1 - Read what is known about the species or hybrid in question before acquiring it. Remember that the same species can arise from a variety of habitats, each ecotype demanding slightly different conditions especially regarding temperature. Individuals of a hybrid grex can behave differently both in terms of stature and growing requirements.

2 - Seed-raised, outcrossed species and primary hybrids will often exhibit more vigor and adapt more readily to hobbyist conditions.

3 - Look to the ROOTS.

Roots that are thick suggest a plant adapted to occasional or seasonal dryness. Roots that are fine, especially if they lack a white protective layer (velamen), suggest a plant whose natural growing situation keeps roots evenly moist.

Mount thick-rooted orchids on a corrugated bark slab or try potting in coarse bark chips or bark/perlite mix for quick drainage after watering.

Thin-rooted orchids can be grown in a ball of living moss, established on a moss- or lichen-coated branch, or potted in chopped moss and fine bark mix.

4 - Look to the LEAVES.

Leaves which are soft and thin are likely to be intolerant of strong light. If such plants also have fine roots and lack pseudobulbs, they will likely also require frequent watering and/or high humidity. Plants whose leaves are thick and succulent are likely tolerant of bright light and of occasional or seasonal dryness.

5 - Observe how the plant behaves.

We can never know the exact conditions that a plant requires until we observe its reaction to our growing conditions. Most orchids are quite forgiving provided their roots are healthy. Observe the roots. Growing roots are a sign that the plant tolerates your conditions.

6 - Seasonally dormant plants can be more of a challenge since they will not begin growth until the day length and/or temperature conditions are appropriate. Try to acquire dormant orchids shortly before they break dormancy.

7 - WATER

When you acquire a new miniature orchid, before starting fertilizer applications, watch how it grows under your conditions using only deionized/RO/rainwater. Let the plant grow awhile on its own. Many miniature pleurothallids are intolerant of fertilizer especially if grown a little too warm. Promeneas are intolerant of minerals in some city water supplies. If the temperature, light, humidity and potting/mounting conditions are to its liking, an orchid will demonstrate its satisfaction with the production of new roots and shoots. If the plant does not respond, try cooler (especially night temperature) or warmer conditions, all the while observing the plant. Begin weak fertilizer application once roots have become established.

SOME MINIATURE SPECIES INCLUDE:

Amesiella philippinensis (warm, humid year round, small clay pot or basket)

Bulbophyllum macphersonii (warm, humid, mounted)

Cadetia taylori (intermediate, humid, good air movement, mount or small pot)

Chiloschista lunifera (leafless, intermediate-warm, mount, broght light)

Dendrobium bellatulum (intermediate, humid while growing; cool and dry when dormant; bright light)

Haraella retrocalla (intermediate, moist, humid, mounted)

Isabelia virginalis (intermediate, humid, mounted)

Lepanthes escobariana (intermediate-cool, humid, mounted)

Masdevallia patriciana (intermediate, humid, small pot)

Meiracyllium trinasutum (intermediate, high light, mount)

Mexicoa (Oncidium) ghiesbrechtiana (intermediate-cool, seasonal grower, lots of water when growing, pot, basket)

Phalaenopsis lobbii (intermediate-warm, moist, mount)

Pleurothallis sertularioides (warm (occasional coolish nights), moist but well drained, high light but indirect sun, mount or pot)

Sophronitella violacea (cool-intermediate, humid, shady, mount)

Tetramicra canaliculata (warm, perfect drainage, deep clay pot, coarse compost, bright light)

A COUPLE OF HYBRIDS

Tetratonia Dark Prince (warm-growing, miniature hybrid of T. canaliculata and Bro. sanguinea)

Pleione (various) (intermediate-warm and moist when growing; cold when dormant; pot)

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TRANSCRIPT

Wed, August 12, WBS 8 PM (CDT)
Conservation Series (Part 14)
with Marilyn Light
TOPIC: Those Adorable Minis

Present were:
sparkysteve (Boca Raton FL)
Jane5536 (L.I., N.Y.)
Andy NVA (Northern VA)
BCPRESS (Bert, Miami FL)
runnerrick (Rick, Concord CA)
marilyninOttawa
Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
marylois (Northwest LA)
jlenev (Joan, Reno NV)
send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
ChuckMyr (Austin MN)
paulav (Paula, Boca Raton FL)
gaillevy (Boca Raton FL)
eml729 (Eddie, Brooklyn NY)
Lanceps (Thamina, Manhattan Beach CA)
Evlyn (Northwest LA)
AORCHID (Art, Simpsonville SC)
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton FL)
Fleur (Tasmania)
Josh319 (Joshua, IA)
jimwatts (Miami FL)
BTague (Barbara, Northern CA)
mplewinska (Magda, Miami FL)
VeryTexas (NO DATA)
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
elvinsong (NO DATA)
Ann12 (Dallas TX)

elvinsong (when the going gets weird the weird go pro) I have just rescued two large orchids from an abandoned greenhouse and want to know what to do with them can anyone help.....please.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Spark, will Marilyn be discussing the compacts as well? I haven't gone to the mail. Tell me

sparkysteve (TOPIC:THOSE ADORABLE MINIS, By Marilyn Light)
Aren't they all one and the same?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I think minis are 6 inches or under.

marilyninOttawa
Hello everyone! While waiting for some others to come aboard, I would like to know if anyone has had an opportunity to read the pre-chat material? Comments anyone?

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
Have read. Seems like a wide-ranging topic. Will it be hard to focus, with so many genera represented with mini species?

marilyninOttawa
The purpose of my series is conservation. We can discuss any aspect of culture within my area of expertise. I welcome comments about those orchids which I have never grown.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Hi Marilyn. Yes, I'm going to alter my conditions for Haraella retrocalla as it isn't doing well, and your suggestions may help save it.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, will you cover compacts as well?

marilyninOttawa
As I stated in the pre-discussion material Ellen, the term mini is quite broad. Yes. I think we should be able to cover compacts too.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Thanks.

marilyninOttawa
To begin, I think that it is important to realize that miniature or compact orchids are just that, smaller, and are not necessarily more difficult to grow than larger plants. When we think mini, we may think cool growing pleurothallids but there are many warm-growing species and hybrids too. I was most surprised when heat turned my Pleurothallis sertularioides on!

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Maybe it is that minis have less margin for error?

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
But because they are so much smaller doesn't it mean that they have less root area and are more easily affected by unwelcome conditions?

marilyninOttawa
I don't know if all small plants have proportionately fewer roots (or less total root volume) than do larger plants. My Phal. lobbii certainly has a lot of thick roots for a small plant. It can also be deciduous if stressed for lack of water (although we would not necessarily want to stress the plant that much).

Rick. Small plants have less total leaf area, potentially less root surface area and less water storage capacity but all, I believe, is in proportion so the plants should not have any more or less a margin of error than larger orchids.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Expressed as a percentage, that is probably quite correct. My problem may be that I have only a few minis amidst the big and thus, they don't get a similar percentage of review by my eye.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Rick, I also have more difficulty with the minis.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Perhaps the reason we feel they need more water than others is the fact that the smaller pots dry out faster.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
And if they are mounted they dry really fast!

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Our problem with minis is that many hybrids are made with Sophronitis which grow too cool for us.

marilyninOttawa
One reason I grow miniature and compact plants is to save space. I do have some big plants in big pots so I hook the tiny mount supports over the edge of the bigger pots. Yes, small mounts and tiny pots do dry out more quickly so it pays to keep track of your little ones. I keep tiny pots together in net trays.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Marilyn, I know our growing conditions are vastly different, but are most of your minis in pots or mounted? Which do better?

marilyninOttawa
Hi Paula. I start many miniature plants in pots then watch them to see how they behave. Some definitely like it better on mounts. Some display their flowers much better when mounted which is an important consideration as well. I tend more toward pots because of my set up but am willing to try mounts if it keeps a plant happier!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Those mini cats with Sophronitis in them hold the bloom for months, or at least they do here where it's cool.

marilyninOttawa
Thanks for introducing the subject of Sophronitis hybrids, Carol. Why not try to get hold of warmer growing compact hybrids such as Cattleytonia and Lctna such as Lctna. Swig of Brandy (Ctna. Brandi x Lc Mini Purple). Quite compact and tolerant of heat from the Broughtonia parentage.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Thanks, Marilyn, I will! One reason I buy the Soph hybrids are they are so darn cute!! We hear Roy from H&R give a presentation on the new ones he has coming on and they are irresistible.

marilyninOttawa
Carol. There are some very good Broughtonia hybrids coming out of Australia. Dr. Desmond Neuendorff is one of the major hybridizers.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Maybe I need to experiment with a medium which supports the minis on the same watering schedule as the big guys. That would help their health, I think.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Marilyn--would it pay to put the pots together in a tray then surround them with moss (vented tray like net)?

Fleur (Tasmania)
You could use seedling trays Jane.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Thanks Fleur --that is what I meant :)

marilyninOttawa
You could put moss in the tray Jane but the decision to use moss depends upon the conditions and the plants being grown. Pleurothallids do prefer it cooler at their roots, higher humidity as well, and do not really appreciate dryness. Moss could help in this case. With thick-rooted miniature orchids like Phal. lobbii, or Leptotes, or Schoenorchis, you want them to dry out between waterings so moss might not be a good idea in such cases.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Most of my plants would come under the heading of mini. In fact some of them are positively micro. *grin*

marilyninOttawa
Name one of your micro-micros, Fleur. *Please*

Fleur (Tasmania)
Marilyn, most of the Pleuros come under that heading, plants about 2 inches, flowers less than a 1/4 inch.

eml729 (eddie in Brooklyn, NY)
The minis I have seem to do ok with one extra watering per week as compared to the big ones.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Maybe the better approach would be to mount all of them and include them with the water everyday mounted group?

marilyniOttawa
I don't think we should say 'mount them all' or 'pot them all' unless the plants are all of the same type. One must take individual requirements into account.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
No way, Rick - fewer roots, smaller pots...best to do as Marilyn suggested -- keep all those little ones in groups by size of pots. Also, this year I've experimented with the ones that look like they need water...like the Hazels...sat each of them in a sherbet lid that holds a miniscule amount of water, but enough longer to help the plant out immensely...of course, all mine are in clay pots.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
I have most of my minis (except the mini catts) in a 55 gal terrarium where I can keep them from drying out so fast.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, if I keep minis in clay pots, can I keep them with the Vanda alliance for watering?

marilyninOttawa
Ellen. It depends what plants you are growing. If the minis, whatever the genus, are in small enough pots or are mounted, then they can take daily watering. Mine get it without any problem. (Dormant plants aside of course) The secret is balancing the potting/mounting to the watering regime you choose to follow.

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
I have mini catts, Encyclias, equitant Oncidiums, Aerangis, etc. growing on benches adjacent to their larger cousins. I use a medium of fine bark, chopped sphag, charcoal and volcanic pebbles for the little guys, and this seems to retain moisture in the thumb pots for long periods, allowing me to water on the same schedule as the big guys in bark. The only problem, I'm told, is that mixing the sphag with the bark will cause the bark to break down quickly, because of the pH difference. So far, no problems.

marilyninOttawa
Joan, We have such different conditions and varied collections that no one medium or watering regime can apply. We have to experiment. It seems that you are having success. Congrats!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
My problems seem to arise in the winter.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Thanks Lois my Haraella is in clay and I've watched over the past 8 months while it got steadily smaller. I even repotted it once to check the roots and examine the medium but saw nothing special that was wrong. I'm probably not watering quite enough (after all, my GH is tuned to plastic pots) and perhaps I give it too little light.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Marilyn - but like Rick said - he's 'geared' to plastic...I'm 'geared' to slotted clay...there is a definite need to go one way or the other for the majority of the plants grown...then deviate per plants' needs.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Many of my minis get a black pseudobulb rot. Any ideas why? And what I can do for it? Once the plant gets it, it is pretty much a goner - no matter how soon I catch it.

marilyninOttawa
Andy. When you say minis, do you mean catts?

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I get the pseudobulb rot regardless of size. Usually in the colder winter.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
The problem with the rot is pretty much with the catts, Marilyn.

marilyninOttawa
Andy. If the Catts are getting Black Rot (Phytophthora) then I suggest that these plants are more susceptible because the temperature regime is not good for them. Sophronitis and Slc, Potinara, etc. can be quite susceptible to Black Rot if they are grown too warm. Too warm does not necessarily mean hot. Is it this Black Rot you are referring to?

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Probably Marilyn. I don't know the name of the black rot. Some get it and some don't. It's so frustrating when it does. Some of me favorite plants are the mini catts. Why is it the ones you can't grow, you like most?

marilyninOttawa
Andy. You said it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Seriously, I would take note of which plants get the ailment. Try moving them to a warmer, drier location. Be very careful about sanitation. This disease (if it is Phytophthora) can be spread in water splashes.

Evlyn
What media are you using, Andy?

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Evlyn, I use primarily a bark mix. I've been tending to add more perlite lately as I have saved a VERY valuable Phaius using 100 percent perlite.

Evlyn
Using peanuts in bottom, Andy?

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Evlyn, one peanut in the bottom of a 3" pot would fill it up! But I get the idea. I'll put a nice piece of perlite in the bottom of the pot. Think it will do the same thing?

marilyninOttawa
I do not put peanuts into mini pots.

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
You can break up styrofoam peanuts for small pots, but I like the earlier suggestion of sponge rock. Will try!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Andy, Robert Fuchs suggests alifor for drainage.

AORCHID (art simpsonville sc)
What is alifor, marylois? [Understand it to be a man-made expanded clay (maybe volcanic rock) product; available from OFE...mlg]

eml729 (eddie in Brooklyn, NY)
Most of my problems come in the summer with the heat.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Eddie, are your plants outside?

eml729 (eddie in Brooklyn, NY)
Only a few, Ellen. And the minis are all indoors.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I suspect minis are more easily handled in windowsill/under lights conditions where growing conditions are more controlled.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, how often do you water in the winter and do you fertilize?

marilyninOttawa
Watering problems do arise in winter especially since temperatures in most setups (up North) are cooler, the days are shorter and the light intensity is less than during the summer months. Many orchids will slow their growth and therefore require less water. If the orchids are warm growing and the temperatures are cooler than ideal, the plants will stop growing. Such plants can become quite susceptible to rot if kept wet and cool. I tend to keep plants on the dry side in winter. They may not all grow as actively as I would like but the plants do not succumb to disease.

Ellen. How often I water is determined by how cold it is outdoors. I grow under lights in the basement in winter. When the weather is very cold (-30F) then the Relative Humidity is low in the house. The plants dry out much more quickly. I water my Masdevallias almost daily, the other warmer growing plants twice a week or so, with daily misting. Those plants like miniature and mounted) Sarcoglyphis pensilis get stood (the mount that is) in a saucer of water. Without this additional water, they abort their buds.

sparkysteve
Marilyn--I have a friend down here that lets his orchids go into dormancy in the winter! Less death that way--mostly miniatures.

marilyninOttawa
Steve. If an orchid is of a type that can enter dormancy then imposed dormancy is one way to keep the plants surviving through challenging times.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
marylois... are you saying that the pots sitting in the tiny bit of water soak it up and the pot stays damp...not the media?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Marla - the media and the plant's roots aren't touched by the water level in a plastic lid.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
That sounds like a good idea.... I should probably move more of my plants to clay pots.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, what material do you use for mounts?

marilyninOttawa
I use lilac branches, cork and tree fern slabs as mounts but the sawn branches seem to work best. Getting a plant rooted on the mount when conditions are ideal is essential.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Lois, It sounds like the water does two things for your minis. First it keeps the clay pot moist and secondly, it keeps the plant cooler because of evaporation.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Rick. Bear in mind most of the time I have too much humidity here - not all my minis are in the plastic lids - just those that don't thrive...and it has seemed to help. You are right about the evaporation and cooler root zones...BTW, the Vienna Woods in the porcelain pot is about to pop buds any day now. porcelain pot

eml729 (eddie in Brooklyn, NY)
I've found 'Miniature Orchids' by Jim and Barbara McQueen to be very valuable for individual cultural requirements. Nice book, IMHO

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
I have that one too, Eddie

Fleur (Tasmania)
Eddie, a wonderful book.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
I have the Miniaure Orchids book by Northen

eml729 (eddie in Brooklyn, NY)
Marla, I have Northen's book also. She covers more species but the McQueens give a more complete treatment of the ones they cover.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
That is the only thing about Northen's book ...I wish it gave more cultural info.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
The best information that I've seen about the miniatures comes from the Bakers' books where the miniatures are mixed with all the others.

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
When considering pots, I have found (in our very arid climate) that the little glazed bonsai pots are water retentive and attractive.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Joan - almost makes me wanna move to the desert SW! Love the glazed bonsai pots. *S* Have a couple of Chinese cyms in them

marilyninOttawa
Great idea, Joan. Glazed pottery is also easy to sterilize with bleach solution if the need arises.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
My mounted ones get drenched every morning

Evlyn
Three inch pots are difficult to pot in just make sure the back rhizome is not slanting down--that it is the same level in the pot as the front one. With Bigger plants it is easier to build a bank in the back before potting.

Fleur (Tasmania)
I have some of mine in one and two inch clay pots, painted to help retain water, but I find the moss does not last very long in these pots.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, I use linen shelves in the greenhouse and keep the minis with the Vandas facing South. They dry quickly so are watered every day except cloudy days in winter. Only the Soph. hybrids are on the northern side and stay drier.

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
Oh, Ellen, LINEN SHELVES! These sound so elegant, but what, pray, are they?

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Ellen, Linen shelves???? How do you do that?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
They are plastic coated metal shelves with spaces. They are light and allow air to circulate below the plants as well. They use them in closets in the houses. The advantage to these shelves is that I an hang plants below as well as on the shelves.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
I thought they were made from linen!

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Otherwise known as closet organizers.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, do Soph. hybrids have a definite rest period?

marilyninOttawa
I do not believe that Soph. hybrids in general have a definite rest period but there are so many hybrids that some just might do so. The few I have grow pretty much year round, more so when the nights are cool(er).

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Lois... do Hazels need to be kept wetter?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I find they take more water and less light than I believed.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Anyone have the cultural recommendations for Capanemia falcata?

marilyninOttawa
Capanemia likes warmer days, coolish nights and does have seasonal dormancy. Water when growths are maturing but only mist once bulbs have plumped up. This one could be a challenge. I would look for seed-raised specimens.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Thanks, Marilyn. I have Capanemia falcata and uliginosa. They came from a flask and did well for the first 8 months through winter. Now they aren't doing too well. They are in small plastic pots with medium. I'm probably going to try mounting a few to see how they do.

Fleur (Tasmania)
A few miniature orchids from my collection. Masd. nidifica, Cadetia taylori, Pleur. pterophora

marilyninOttawa
Thank you for the lovely images, Fleur. I grow the Masd. nidifica in a plastic pot but it probably would do better mounted. The plant can be quite rampant. It is covered with blooms about 3 times a year.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Marilyn, I have two lots of that plant, one mounted, one in a pot, both do very well. Andy, have you tried mounting those troublesome plants? I have mounted some of my larger Catts for the very same reason. Seems to work.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Fleur, love the the Masd. picture with the plant inset! Good presentation idea.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Fleur, No I haven't mounted any mini catts. Would they survive with being watered only 2 X's a week? I can't water more than that. I've never been able to grow much mounted

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Wow, Fleur. That Pleurothalis pterophora is pretty cool. Reminds me of lily of the valley.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Great pictures, Fleur!

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Nice pics, Fleur! Marilyn, what do you mean when you say 'when conditions are ideal' for mounting?

marilyninOttawa
I keep my Masd. triangularis in a clay pot. The pot is always cool(er) than the surround. The plant blooms throughout the summer despite the heat.

Fleur (Tasmania)
This is for Magda, a weird one. Trisetella triglochin

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
I think if you mount plants, you are pretty much committed to water daily. Or at least more often that twice weekly. Most of my stuff is mounted and I water daily.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Marilyn, how often do you water triangularis and what is its medium?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Andy, I only water mine once a week in winter, even mounted. Daily in summer when active root growth is seen.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
All my mounted plants are watered daily for 1 minute and they thrive!!!

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Fleur, way cool! Looks like it wouldn't grow here (So. Florida, warm) but since it grows at 700 ft elevation, may be it could. What are your conditions like?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Magda, I have a minimum of around 44F and if the sun shines around 64F in the greenhouse Winters here are cool though, day temps often below 50F.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Fleur, That's a lot cooler that our 70F degree nights.

marilyninOttawa
My pots grow moss. Watching the living moss is a good way to judge moisture requirements as the moss shrivels before the orchids are stressed.

Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Those look interesting, Lois. Have you used them and do they hold water? How are salt buildups?

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Lois, those pots look like fun. You say porcelain but real porcelain is white. Are you sure that it isn't teracotta?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
They are porcelain slip - comes in colors.

jlenev (Joan in Reno)
Must leave, but want to thank Orchid Safari and our recent speaker on the subject of Stanhopeinae. He recommended Benomyl for my burgeoning fungus/bacteria problem. Got some from Charley's next day and spots and dots are stopped in their tracks! Good night.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois, I don't understand how you mount the plants in these pots you showed. Do you stretch netting across the top of the pot and mount the plant on that?

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Lois, and when you say fired, you must mean bisqued because those pots are not vitreous if you are cutting them with any ease, no?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Magda - I cut the bottom out of a small mesh pot, slit it down the side, fishing line tie it to the side of the pot with a 1/4 inch pad of sphagnum under it, then I tie the plant to that -- this works only when plant is very small - maybe a seedling would work of the roots were also under the mesh.

Rick, I cut out the holes immediately upon taking them out of the mold...then they are fired into bisque.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
Of course, the best 'minis' for me are the equitants.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois. What happens at 'repotting' time? Do you just leave the plastic mesh on the roots forever or do you try to cut it away?

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I grow outdoors, min. winter night temp. 38 F, heavy winter rains last 2 years. I'm getting a greenhouse soon.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois, also do these clay pots get very heavy? How big are they?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Magda - don't plan to repot - has been there about 8 years now. Will let grow til there is enough of the plant to cut off a division and let it go til it goes no more.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Lois, do you make the pots yourself?

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois, I see you really hate repotting. (Me, too)

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Not heavy - they are oval - about 9 inches wide, 9 inches tall, 3 inches deep...keep it filled with water and water til much water gushes out of holes at the top.

Yes, I did make it - made lots in two smaller sizes for equitants - never made it work because of equitants and SCALE!

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Lois, that is a great idea. I think that I'll break out the wheel and throw a few! They should work in my environment!

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois. OK. If they are not deep, they can't get that heavy (when filled with water). Some of the ones you showed looked deep.

marilyninOttawa
Ellen and Rick, as I said before, get your miniature plants well rooted when times are good. They will be so much more resilient when times are more challenging.

Fleur (Tasmania)
The smaller pots encouraged scale? Or just that the plants were more prone to it?

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
Equitants attract scale the way interns attract presidents.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Marilyn, that means mount them in the spring when they are growing new roots and whatever?

marilyninOttawa
Rick. Each orchid has its time to grow. Masdevallias root much better when the weather/conditions are cool (with a few exceptions). Phal lobbii, Schoenorchis, and similar warm growers, turn up the growth when the weather/conditions are warm to hot and this can be when the roots are produced. Complex hybrids like mini catts behave variably. Some grow roots when the day length is shortening, others as the days lengthen. Some grow year round, others only once a year. We have to observe our plants, taking note what they like and don't like then we can choose the ideal time to mount a particular plant.

I find that some mini catts like Lc. Love Knot seem to do best when I lay them on top of coarse bark chips. They 'stand up' over the chips, dipping their roots into the pot as if not deigning to permit their rhizome to touch the surface. What is the plant telling me? If it likes growing this way then that is the way it will stay. I want it to grow and to bloom!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
They are 9'' deep - the by deep, I meant - well, look at the pictures - they are a flat oval design. They are not light when filled with water, but I use nylon rope to hang, and porcelain is plenty strong to old.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Thanks Jim, I didn't know that.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Fleur - as Jim said, equitants attract scale FIRST in a greenhouse...a good coal mine canary!

sparkysteve
jimwatts---then you must not have many Enc. tampensis then!!!! Scale LOVES them!

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Equitants attract aphids too, as do other Oncidiums.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Other than oncidiums in baskets (Nonamyre) and mounted (Gower Ramsey) I have trouble growing them. Reckon I water too much?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Marilyn, when you said your pots grew moss, did you mean on the outside of the pots? Some of mine are covered with this type of moss, I find it attractive but wasn't sure if I should clean it off.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Lois, Uh huh.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
No tampensis, Steve, but with 17 species of equitants (plus many hybrids), I keep a spray bottle with alcohol/water/soap by the balcony. If I see scale anywhere, I spray the equitants. I have triquetrum in bloom and guianensis albo-rubrum in spike (wheee!!)

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yuck! I hate it! Scrub it off ASAP...have been told I should leave it.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Jimwatts, be careful with that spray bottle. I have found that that spray will destroy some buds and will cause the plant to abort the blooms.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Certainly the roots tell the story. As a beginner I thought the new growth signaled the time to repot...but many hybrids have 3 inches of new growth before the first nub of a root shows.

Fleur (Tasmania)
We have a 'rule' here that Catts are only ever potted/mounted when new root growth reaches one inch. Again mainly due to our cool climate.

marilyninOttawa
Rick. The Masd. triangularis is watered almost every day except when it is raining and humidity is high. Most of my Masdevallias are potted in moss but certain ones like the triangularis are potted in a fine bark/charcoal/perlite mix. Some Masdevallias such as Masd. ignea prefer a bark medium (I have found).

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
I have my mini's and broughtonia spp and hybrids in medium aliflor (expanded clay pellets) with a 1/4 inch layer of sphagnum on top. They are doing fine, and several of the broughtonias are blooming/spiking

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Runnerrick, about the bug spray. Do you have something that's easy on the plants? Otherwise, I'd rather ruin a few blooms than have the plant overrun by scale. Dead plants don't bloom.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Thanks Marilyn. That's exactly what I wondered about.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
Rick, I haven't had a problem, but mainly cuz I spray before I actually see them, and then don't have to spray the spike, just the plant.

sparkysteve
Lois---a good trick I learned is that you can repot---just don't fill the pot with medium till you see new roots.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
This past Sunday, Robert Fuchs spoke at the Shreveport OS - says spray orthene at 2 tsp/gal for mealy bug and thrips - and can spray flowers at 1 tsp/gal ...using Dawn as a wetter-sticker.

Evlyn
We need to talk more about that green stuff growing on pots.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Marilyn. I have a triangularis which was doing only so-so. Last weekend I transplanted it from a moss medium into bark/charcoal/perlite/lava/oyster shell mix which is my standard mix. This gives me hope that it may do better than how it did before.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
The green stuff growing on pots. I don't mind it, kind of like it actually. Gives the pots that 'lived in' look.

sparkysteve
I use Orthene, Lois--not much else--it's systemic.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
If I were observant enough, and quick enough, I'd repot soon as I saw an emerging root.

Evlyn
I use alcohol straight from the bottle.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Oh, and I don't think it does the orchids any harm. Anyone know for sure. I think it's algae, not moss. Some people have moss growing on the media in their pots - I think it looks gorgeous, but I don't have it on my plants.

Fleur (Tasmania)
I like the moss on the pots, but is it harmful in any way?

sparkysteve
200 proof Ev???

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Rubbing alcohol is 70%, 140 proof, I believe.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Magda, my fight with the bugs has gone pretty far. Right now, I haven't sprayed anything in the greenhouse since last November. When I have sprayed, it was with Orthene, Kelthane and Diazanon. I was after mites and ants and scale. This year I don't have the same problems. It just breaks my heart to see a plant come to bloom only to be covered with scale, aphids or other and I've done a lot to prevent that -- like add a concrete floor to the greenhouse.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Re: the green stuff - I find it grows where salts have collected, then slugs eat it! So I leach like mad weekly, sometimes twice a week...and when I see white forming, much less moss, out comes a Dobie!

Evlyn
If the pot is covered with the green gunk--would not that stop it from breathing and therefore be more like a plastic pot.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
I mix 50/50 water/alcohol, quart sprayer with a few drops of dishwashing soap. (aka Dawn). Also works on creepy-crawly bugs in the house like ants and flies.

Fleur (Tasmania)
The stuff on my pots is an actual moss, furry etc, but not the same as the sphagnum.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Dobie????? Translation please.

marilyninOttawa
Yes, Rick. Mount when roots just begin to grow. The time of year will vary with the plant and its growing style.

Ann12
I have a small population of little anoles (lizards) in my greenhouse that may help with the insect problem. I don't have many insects.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
...that's my thinking, Evie...Marilyn???

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I use alcohol straight in a spray bottle too. It's harder to control stuff outside.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Evlyn, I don't think the green gunk prevents the pot from breathing.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Fleur, does the moss grow on the outside of your pots? Or on the media?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
A Dobie is that wonderful kitchen invention - tough netting over a sponge...I dip one in a physan solution, and I'm back to terra cotta.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Hmmm, I'm puzzled by the green stuff. Green stuff grows on the floor and shelf area where I keep vandas because it gets sprayed every 2 hrs during the day but not in the pots. Is that because of no salts?

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois. Oh, that Dobie. I know what that is. Just wasn't thinking kitchen. Tunnel vision.

Fleur (Tasmania)
On the outside of the pots is the stuff I mean, not the sphagnum in the pots. it's like the stuff growing in the rain forest, thick and fury like a carpet.

marilyninOttawa
The only way I have been successful growing equitants is to lay them individually on the top of a pot of another orchid such as Cattleya aurantiaca. The plants root into the bark and the plant supports itself amongst the pseudobulbs. The plant thrives, blooms and otherwise does its thing. I am not too sure why this works but keep posted. Maybe some day I will figure it out.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Rick - not in the pots, on the pots...probably cause you don't grow in high humidity. I suspect you folks who don't mind it don't have the matted growth I can manage if I let it go. It's the bane of my existence - requiring greenhouse wall scrubbing sprng and fall.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
Fleur, here it's called sheet moss or florist moss.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Fleur, the moss outside your pots must look really neat. I'd love that.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I'll have to try that, Marilyn!

marilyninOttawa
Getting to know local growing requirements is a key as Fleur points out.

Evlyn
I spray the outside of a clay pot with Lime-Away--no scrubbing to get the white stuff off.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Ed would agree with you Magda. *G* I still hate it - cause of the mess it becomes.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Jim, that sounds about right. We find it growing naturally here in damp sheltered places like the local rain forest or gullies.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Marilyn, that configuration is like a compot. Have you tried growing equitants in a compot instead of individually? I tried it the first time this spring and already the little guys are bigger than the ones that I planted individually into pots last fall.

marilyninOttawa
Keep us posted, Rick, as to how the mix works with the masd.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Evlyn - when the pot is empty - not when there is a plant in it?

Evlyn
That sounds neat, Marilyn.

runnerrick (Rick in Portland, OR)
Ok, Marilyn. I will keep you posted. I've not been very successful with Masdevallias so they have more than their share of attention.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
I had no success at all with equitants in little pots. I removed them from the pots and mounted them on pieces of redwood that I had left over when I built the GH. They are mounted on the end of the middle bench in my GH. They get morning sun. Bloomed like there was no tomorrow this year starting about Jan.

Evlyn
Yes, when the plant is in it. It will not harm hard leaf things like cats if it is washed immediately. Other things should be covered with newspaper to catch overspray

marilyninOttawa
The moss doesn't appear to harm anything. I have several moss species growing including Polytrichum (Haircap) and Sphagnum. Different mosses grow according to the medium and the water/fertilizer regime. Mosses will not grow if the fertilizer levels are too high. I go easy on fertilizer (weakly/weekly) and so moss grows. Masd. lamprotyria grows quite well in live moss and resists even our hot summers. The roots are healthy.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Marilyn, I like your equitant growing idea. They do always look like they'd prefer to be clinbing up something. I though of trying to grow them monted on a vertical support.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I grew them on little slabs of cork - floor tiles cut to about 2 x 3 inches...but that was too dry. Anita Aldrich said to just sit the plant on the cork mount in a 3 inch pot...worked great! Held moisture longer.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois. That's a good idea. I though I'd try tree fern (gasp!). It holds water better.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
No, I won't use it with a plant in the pot - but I sure will use it on pots before I soak in Clorox and rinse soaks. Hadn't thought of it.

Evlyn
Also try soaking the pots in citric acid solution.

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
Magda, one of the best equitant growers I know uses tree fern pots, with a thin layer of sphagnum on top to let the plant root. He gets awards from So. Florida group all the time. Tree fern totems work fine too.

marilyninOttawa
The green stuff growing on the outside of pots can be green algae, blue-green algae or even germinating moss and fern spore bodies. You can try controlling algae by dipping an experimental pot in diluted Physan or pool algae control solution, diluted to manufacturers instructions. The algae control compounds are detergents and can be quite effective at controlling algal mats. Personally, I wouldn't worry about light green coating on pots. It is growing there because it is humid, nutrient-rich and shady. If you are worried about clay porosity being affected, use slit pots or pots with holes.

Evlyn
Tree fern pots? Where would you get such an item?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton,Florida)
I put my pots in the pool skimmer to clean them!

marilyninOttawa
Neat, Steve!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
...all slotted...most scrubbed *LOL* Just have a 'thing'. *S*

marilyninOttawa
Equitants need a lot of light.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
You can get tree fern pots at most orchid supply stores. Where do you live, Evlyn?

jimwatts (Miami, FL)
OFE, they have round 4hx3d, 6x4, 8x?. (h=high, d=deep)

Fleur (Tasmania)
We can get Tree/Man fern pots here, just slabs of the stuff with a smallhole in the centre.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
OFE has them, Evie. I put a Ctna in one once - forget repotting.

Evlyn
I just don't like to touch that green gook when I pick up a pot.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Don't everyone go - Ann's making some plans for a Dallas OS get-together at their Nov SWROGA show - see above announcement.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
...with our high salts, Evie, a tree fern pot is NOT an answer.

Evlyn
Terminolgy is the problem. I call them tree fern baskets. I with you now--sorry--the brain is old.

Fleur (Tasmania)
That's the only problem with those pots, the plant get so intertwined that you can never get it out.

marilyninOttawa
Well, I think it is about time to call it a night. folks. I harvested a lot of Cypripedium capsules today and must flask all tonight. I will be busy!!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
What a wonderful night, Marilyn! You're great!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Thank you Marilyn, as always a very good session. BTW I took the day off just to be here.

marilyninOttawa
We or rather I have to think of future topics under the conservation banner. Any thoughts? All ideas will be considered.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Marilyn, before you go, take a look at one of the mini's I picked up last weekend.

marilyninOttawa
What a compliment, Fleur. Glad to have your knowledgeable participation.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Harold, that lovely purple one?

marilyninOttawa
Nice, Harold. Thanks for the view.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Picture does not do it justice. It is a deep red.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Harold, very pretty. Since it's red, that's even better.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes! Harold picked up everything Alan Koch had left! *G* Marilyn, how about a 'getting ready for winter' session????

marilyninOttawa
OK Lois but lets leave that winter thing for awhile!! I am just starting to enjoy summer tomatoes!

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Harold..what is the cross? or is it a spec? It is a beautiful flower....nice shape too!

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Winter????? What the heck is that????

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
LOL, Marilyn. Those of us in the south are fantasizing about the winter, when we'll be able to go outside for more than five minutes without having to take a bath afterwards.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
It's name is Sl. Orpetii. Hang on a min, will go get the cross. It is Soph. coccinea X L. pumila.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
OK, rub it in, Marilyn! I'm already worrid about fall and getting back into the greenhouse - but not so worried I've stopped dragging plants home. *S*

marilyninOttawa
Must fly. Good night.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Night, Marilyn.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I got a really nice Slc. Mahalo Jack recently. I wasn't careful enough collecting pollen. Accidentally selfed it.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lanceps. Maybe you'll get something nice.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Are you going to flask the seed?

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
Hope so, nice little pod.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Lois, did not tell you about the order I sent home with Alan. I only have room for mini's.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Oh dear, wish I was there in November, any time in fact. *grin* maybe one day.

Fleur (Tasmania)
I'm off as well, I have some Orchids to photo before the light goes.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.
Very informative chat

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Yes--another good night!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Good night everyone, sleep well.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Good day, Fleur - so glad you were with us.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Glad to be here.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Time for me to go too---another 5:30 wake up tomorrow!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Getting sleepy out - will call it a day. Nite, all.

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