OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*



A Walk in the Park

Moderators: Steve Moss and Don Carpenter
Wed, 16 Sep 1998

Present were 30:

sparkysteve - Boca Raton Fla
Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
nodosa- Ed in Texas
paulav - in S Fla
onelaelia - Ursula in Caracas, Venezuela
kawacym - Jim in N Calif
marylois - in Shreveport LA
55SS - James in N calif
Josh319 - In Iowa
JCY8S - John in S Calif
Jane5536 - in NY
sibby jean - Boca Raton
uncleearl - Earl in N Calif
doneng - Don in S Fla
gaillevy - in S. Fla.
prankster d - Susan in Oregon
Scott Mcphee
Fleur - in Tasmania, Austrailia
foxtail2- Doug
rayma123 - in Canada
Marc Goulding - in S Calif
lisav-bigred -in Fort Myers, FL.
peterlin - in Texas
Ann12 - in Texas
KB Barrett - in N Calif
graphicgreg - in Fla
Evlyn - in Louisiana
Native Heart - in Fla
coerulea - in Texas
BCPRESS - in Fla


Don Carpenter

Everglades National Park is celebrating its 51st anniversary this year and is the largest wilderness east of the Rockies (1.5 million acres). Three DBOS members: Mark Creamer, Steve Moss and Don Carpenter, were accompanied on the second trip (they made two in May) by the walking botanical encyclopedia, Rufino Osario. You may have heard Rufino speak at one or more of the local society meetings. We did some walking on the prescribed paved trails but mostly it was through the bush. We saw lots of orchids and they are surprisingly plentiful in some areas with a certain type appearing in clusters over a favored area.

Easy to find species include: Encyclia tampensis and Enc. boothiana; harder to find are Onc. luridum, Epi. nocturnum and Polystachia concreta and vanilla. The mule ear Onc. luridum with six foot flower stems and 18x5 inch stiff; heavy leaves were quite beautiful. The flowers of the Florida native luridums are larger and much more colorful than the varieties from the tropics further south. Encyclia tampensis blooms in June.

The Anhinga Trail provides easy access to see them as well as alligators with fewer mosquitoes. We saw few mosquitoes on the first trip (5 bites per hour) but they were much more aggressive on the second trip (50 bites per hour at times) and many more horse flies. The jungle has its perils which include many forms of cactus which are sometimes difficult to avoid. However, off the beaten trail, the place offers scenes that look like something from another planet and observing orchids growing on a bough with other epiphytes in their native state is heaven.

There was a memorial tribute to Marjory Stoneman Douglas while we were at one of the more civilized areas of the park. She wrote Everglades: River of Grass' and is considered to be the mother of the Everglades. Several state and local politicians were in attendance. One of the politicians stated that Everglades is in its final hour and much more needs to be done to save it. Recently the federal overnment slashed the funding designated to help save the Everglades. There have been lots of studys but not much action!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
This is a picture of Don!
And bookmark this, the US National Park's Everglades Homepage
Bookmark this page too Excite's Everglades search page

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Ooo, Don! You're such a handsome fellow!

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
I'm a Florida Gator, but not the green variety! Steve, the Everglades site mentions government funding that was just cut.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Yeah, Don--they screwed us over again!!! The 'Glades' needs help!!!! It's hard to look for orchids when these are around!

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Steve - some of us really are not too sure what the Everglades really are. Would you give a short description?

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
The first button Steve put up gives a brief description of the Everglades

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The 'Glades' is a river of grass!--starts at Lake Okechobee. Don what starts a hammock?

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
A hammock is a high fertile spot on which grows trees and bushes that don't like wet feet.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Pictures are worth 1000 words. That one shows a lot.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
This is where we usually start first--a slough, sort of a hole that holds water and we end up at that place too--it's getting dark!!!

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Which one is you Sparky?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I have the long tail and big mouth!

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Are hammocks few or many?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
John, percentage wise it's a drop in the bucket! A way in the south there are some Pine trees where it's drier. Royal palms are also native to Florida--these must be at least 60feet tall.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Is that a crocodile I see?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Fleur--we have gators! Only a few crocs!

onelaelia (Caracas)
Hammocks or hummocks? Whats the difference? [They both mean the same thing--SNM]

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
There are many. The hammocks and cypress heads look like islands in the river of grass.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
And the hammocks is where you find the orchids!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Steve is that fresh water or salt?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The river is fresh---but tidal waters can come back some.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Everglades is both fresh and tidal salt.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Here, look on the left dead branch for the Enc. tampensis.

Native Heart
That is an artistic picture. What time were you out there? Steve, when we went into the Glades to look at orchids, what we saw was LOTS and LOTS of very big rattlesnakes, did you see any?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
No Jane---snakes run the other way when they see me!! We leave at about 4 in the morning and return about 10PM or so.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, Are most of the orchids epiphytic or terrestrial there?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Ray--you mean in the glades? or the whole state?

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, both I guess.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Well, there are more terrestrials in Florida--I forget the number of species--and a small amount of epiphytes--in the glades, I think the epiphytes outnumber them.

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
There are 50 terrestrials in Texas, Steve, and I suspect 40 of those are found in Florida.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, Are the epiphytes mostly the minis? What are some of the terrestrial genera in the Everglades?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The total species in Florida is 99, I think (C. Leur). Ray---I am not too good on terrestrials--sorry!

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, well then, what are some of the epiphytic genera? :)

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Re: terrestrial species in Florida, I would expect to see a very nice range of Spiranthes and Platanthera. Lots of Zeuxine stratimatica, too, but it is an old world orchid imported with carpet grass - now naturalized.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Depending on the who your expert is, there are around 100 native Fla. orchids with something over 20 epiphytes - Epiphytes: enc., epi., onc., max., cyrt., poly., and a couple of leafless species.

marylois (The Everglades with Steve and Don)
Yep, enough Florida native orchids for Luer to fill one big book - the rest of North America is in another book. *G*

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Is the seed of the Zeuxine easily obtainable? I have had it here but it now has disappeared.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Nodosa, I haven't heard of Zeuxine before. What's it look like (generally)?

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Marylois, do you know if the Luer Florida Orchid book is still in print?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
No, Ray--long out of print! Leur's book was printed in 1973--I believe his wife and son finished it after he died.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparks, rats! I have the NA Luer book and love it.

marylois (The Everglades with Steve and Don)
Rayma - look for used ones - you can get on a want list at McQuerry's.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
[picture]

Native Heart
BEAUTIFUL!!! It is nice to see South Florida without cement on top of it...Fleur, our crocs are chicken compared to those vicious monsters you have in Australia!!!!

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Tell them about the mosquitoes and Deerflies!!! [I can remember deerflies with wingspan of about 2 inches--SNM]

onelaelia (Caracas)
Wear boots against snakes. I carry bothrops antibodies from an encounter with a viper on an orchid safari. Not fun.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Yes our Crocs have a bad reputation and unfortunately a taste for American tourists.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Sparky, what is the best time of year to see the orchids in bloom?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Ellen, They each have different times. Enc. boothiana is in bloom now--but the mosquitoes will carry you away!!! tampensis in bloom in June, Onc. luridum in about April and boothiana in Sept.

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
We have Epi. conopseum in bloom now. It came from Florida.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Ed, do you keep it cool?

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Ed, we have Eulophia alata, Spath. plicata (escaped) and Bletia as well.

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
We love the Bletias, Greg. Put our modest collection of them in the local Botanical Garden for others to enjoy. They stand any kind of weather, apparently. Re the conopseum, Steve, we put it outside under 60% shade and it fends for itself. We had day after day of 100+ this summer and the little plant is in fine bloom now.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Epi. conopseum grows from central Fla. north to Carolina. It is the most northerly growing epiphyte.

Scott Mcphee
How cool do the Everglades get in the winter?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Scott, maybe every 8 years or so they will have a frost.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Are these orchids protected from collectors in this area?

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
The mosquitoes keep the plants protected, they are ruthless!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Yes, all over the US orchids are endangered species.

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Ellen, I believe most of Sparky's pix are in the Park, which is protected.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Steve, are all native US orchids on the endangered list?

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Florida protects orchids and picking them in the national park can land you in jail. [Not only in jail and a fine, but they can confiscate your personal property-SNM]

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Don - what about gathering them any place in FL?

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
John, you can pick them if you own the property generally.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Only on private properties, John---with owner's permission--I wouldn't wanna get caught with them in my car--rangers have more power then the state police!!!

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Steve - I think that is good!! Don - that goes for the ripe seed also?

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Also cyrtopodium punctatum.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Epi. nocturnum--look at the seed pods.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Tons of Enc. boothiana.

Native Heart
Cute boothiana. Chuck McCartney spoke at FLOS Mon, he showed some wild boothianas that put mine (a select one from Barbara Fuchs) to shame.

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Nice pic of the boothiana, Sparky...I have been informed that there are two forms of that species; one with a lot of small flowers and one with fewer larger flowers, which we saw also in Belize.

Josh319
Sparky -- how big does Enc. boothiana get? It looks small.

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Here's a pic of the Enc. boothiana flower.

Native Heart
My Enc. boothiana blooms very late. It is in sheath, but no buds yet. It will have about 20 spikes this year. it is on a driftwood stick, I water it every morning in summer, less in winter. It is a very neat tidy little orchid.

prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Is that a whopper Tillandsia behind that E.boothiana?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The boothiana in Fla and the Carribean are variety trianderous.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Explain trianderous.

55SS (James in Fresno)
Triandrous is three anthers.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Pardon me for interrupting your talk, Sparky, but Susan - there are TONS of huge tillandsias in the Everglades and all over South Florida.

Native Heart
WOW! I want a boothiana flower like THAT!!!

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Too bad it's not three inches across, huh Jane ?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Nickname for boothiana is 'silver dollar orchid) That's about the size of the pseudobulbs.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Sparky--were these plants all in bloom so you could recognise them?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
No, Jane---they are easy to identify. Jane, does your boothiana pollinate itself?

Native Heart
Just looked on Wildcatt, only found one hybrid for Enc. boothiana, under Epi. boothianum, JUST ONE! It seems to me to be a plant with potential. Sorry, Steve, I said the dirty 'hybrid' word.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
[picture]

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Is that Epi. tampensis, Steve?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Ed sorry--this is a Enc. tampensis

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
No, I'm sorry - thought it was epi last week!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Right, Ed--maybe a new genus next week! The tampensis grows almost every where--in the shade--partial sun and full 100% sun!

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Steve is the common tampensis the one with a disk in the throat or the one with striations on the upper labellum?

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
Here's a picture of the tampensis flower.

Native Heart
That picture is magic, Greg.

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
I can see the disk, Greg, thanks. We most often see the striped throat.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
What I like to see the most down there is the Onc. luridum and they are found in this type area, nodosa. What do you think? a few Bromeliads there????? That species was in bloom when we were there in the early spring.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I seen many different kinds of lips Ed.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
These pictures are wonderful! I love seeing the habitats!

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
I just wish everyone here could visit the Everglades at least once - the place is truly magical and serene. At first glance, it seems devoid of much life, but if you stand very still and look VERY closely, you will see teeming life everywhere, both plant and animal.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Like Don says, when you're there it's like a different world!

coerulea (David In southeast Texas)
Wow, I love those bromeliads, do you know the species? I collected some from a friend's property close to homestead over the summer, they look just like those in the pic.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Right Paula--and more virgin land is destroyed every day!!!!

onelaelia (Caracas)
Same for rain forests.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Geeze, Dave---I feel good that I know they are Bromeliads--and you wanna know species?

coerulea (David In southeast Texas)
Hahaha, sorry Steve. I am pretty positive tillandsia something or other, but dunno the species name. They were growing right next to some native encyclia I think, I love it down there.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, Can you travel on foot very much? How do you get around the Everglades?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
When we go Ray we do A LOT of walking--but there are places that have trails and boardwalks--close to parking areas. Me and Don are the only ones why do the walking --last time we did about a 12 mile walk!

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
You can go 100 miles in the glades in a canoe. Walking is OK, if you aren't fussy about where you step.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Another view of ''paradise''!! The small trees here are Buttonwood. Conocarpus erectus. You can turn around 360 degrees and see orchids all around

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
There are mangrove forests in many tropical parts of the world we have four species here.

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
There was a book published in the sixties by the University of Miami Press; Orchids and Other Air Plants of the Everglades National Park, by Frank C. Craighead that identifies not only all of the orchids but also the bromeliads. You may be able to find at McQuerry's or other used bookseller. Great book!

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, Is it all spongy underfoot, like a floating bogmat?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Not at all the way I pictured the area. Thought it was all swamp.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
So did I Fleur

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Not where these pix are Ray--the hammocks are up enough to be dry in the winter.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Do they ever go underwater?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Greg, do you have a link for McQuerry's?

graphicgreg (in WET West Palm Beach)
I don't think she's on the web Fleur but she has a great collection of used and out of print books, I just bought Fowlie's Lycaste book new (out of print) I will send you her address

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
The majority of the Everglades is flat and wet - but it's very difficult to take photos there unless you're in a boat. There are 'islands' of land - hammocks - where trees and shrubs (and orchids) grow.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
More boothiana

onelaelia (Caracas)
Any info on tours? Organized ones?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
You mean tours here in the park?

onelaelia (Caracas)
Yes Sparky, tours of the park.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
They have them, but I guess most people want to go on their own. I don't think the average person would go where Don and I go!!!

nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Get an Indian guide and enjoy the Glades. Take plenty of time and plenty of film.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
There are tours but not into the bush.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
These aren't easy to find! Onc. luridum.

marylois (The Everglades with Steve and Don)
I have a friend of 40 years who does fishing tours and Glades tours...will send name to anyone who wants it...and if he's busy, he would sure know someone else.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The leaves on the luridum have to be over 10'' before it blooms.
[full plant]

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Steve is the ugly one on the left.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Just a little dense??????? Another weird thing down this far is the cypress trees are stunted! Grow to a max of 10 feet or so.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
The Glades has many forms of cactus which are worse than snakes any day. There is also a vine which can be 6 inches in diameter with three inch thorns.

coerulea
What causes that do you think? {the stunted cypress trees} hahaha, sorry about being vague.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
This flower spike was awesome--over 6 feet - that's feet not inches!!!!! [closeup]

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Cypress are deciduous--could that be a reason?

marylois (The Everglades with Steve and Don)
Maybe those hurricanes keep the big cypress culled out, Steve???

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Cacti in the Everglades!!?? What kind of condtions do they grow in?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
No Lois I doubt that--Cypress have real wide bases just or that reason.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Maybe the water has leached out the nutrients neccessary for more growth

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
It's surprising but where the Onc luridum grow is a fairly dry area.

onelaelia (Caracas)
How do you grow luridum in FLA?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Good point, John--also there are coral rock just inches below the topsoil.

coerulea
I have heard of pine trees being stunted from a high salt content, but I dont think that would be a problem in the everglades... but I dunno, is there salt in the everglades?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I tried luridums from South America and I killed them!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Yeah, Dave, where these last pix were is maybe 5 miles from the bay.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
Sparky, how much of southern Florida is on old coral deposits?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
ALL of Florida is! Just the panhandle is rocky

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
There are tall cypress also. Stunting is caused by too much limestone and not enough good stuff.

onelaelia (Caracas)
I asked about luridum culture cause am great at killing our carthagenense.

rayma123 (Rayma from Central Alberta)
That's very interesting! I didn't have any idea.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Too much water maybe--Onc likes to be dry

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
These types of Onc like high light levels also.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
[picture] [picture] Maybe this year Don and I, and maybe Greg will go to another park that has more epiphytic orchids--The Fakahatchee Stand

onelaelia (Caracas)
Yes, Sparky, also sun. But what medium?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I would put the mule ears on a plaque.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
onelaelia - I grew mine in tree fern or bark but I think osmunda really workes best IF you can get it.

coerulea
Well, I really must be going y'all. I have enjoyed the slide show y'all, and I enjoyed seeing you all again, I have missed talking to y'all, goodnight!

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Steve, that is really magnificent.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Nite all--thanks for stayin to the bitter end!!!!

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
NIte nite - the dogs have got to go out.

marylois (The Everglades with Steve and Don)
Great job, Steve - thank you Don! Thank you, Steve. Go back and get more pictures. *G*

Fleur (Tasmania)
Both of you, my many thanks for bringing the Everglades to me. Opened my eyes.

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