OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*



IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE WOODS TODAY...
         (about critters)

Moderator: Marilyn H.S. Light
WBS, Wed, 14 Oct 98

  1. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

  2. TRANSCRIPT

PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE WOODS TODAY........
...you're in for a big surprise!

Marilyn H. S. Light
October 1998

These lyrics of a favorite song, "The Teddybear's Picnic", inspire me to introduce you to the wonders (and horrors *G*) that can lurk in our orchid pots!

You can hear the tune at http://geocities.datacellar.net/Heartland/Hills/9603/music.html

To investigate just what is lurking in your orchid pots, choose one potted orchid and unpot it onto white paper, a white tray, or platter.

Examine the compost and the aboveground portions for the presence of any animal. Earthworms, earwigs, roaches, slugs, snails, tiny mites, springtails, sowbugs, scale, mealy bugs etc all count. Identify what you see and count how many of each you find.

Examine the compost and aboveground portions for the presence of fungi including white mycelium on bark chips, mushy decaying roots, leaf lesions, etc. Categorize and estimate how many of each you find.

Examine the compost for co-habitant plants such as oxalis, moss, ferns, etc.
Categorize and estimate how many of each you find.

For the same plant, list the pesticide/fungicide/soap treatments that it has received over the past year. Name the product(s) used, estimate the application frequency and the date of most recent application.

If you have been applying pesticides, have the pests really been controlled or are they still lurking?

Let us know what you find!

The purpose of this exercise is to open our eyes to the world hidden within the pot. You may be in for a big surprise. I have found on occasion, predatory mites, tiny pseudoscorpions with thrips in claw!, root mealy bugs and even a tiny mushroom whose presence was and has ever since been linked to the flowering of a particular Dendrobium.

WHAT YOU MIGHT FIND IN A POT

Springtails - silvery hopping insects less than 1 mm long that love moist compost. May harm tiny seedlings but not larger plants. Their presence could indicate too much moisture and/or decomposing compost.

Fungus Gnats and Fungus Gnat larvae - the tiny black adult gnats cause no problem but the almost transparent worm-like larvae can devour slender roots of seedlings and pleurothallids. Their presence indicates wet compost and possibly decomposing compost.

Predatory Mites - fast moving red to brown creatures usually in small numbers. No webs and no leaf damage. Their presence points to a healthy plant environment, not too hot or cold and reasonably humid. Many predatory mites are omnivorous so their continued presence does not necessarily mean that there are mite pests present.

Fungus Mites - slow moving dark brown to pale yellow creatures that feed on the variety of fungi present in compost. They can invade sterile flasks which gives you an idea of how tiny they can be. Once there, they spread contaminating fungal spores and the flask contents can be lost. Keep plants and flasks separate.

Root Mealybugs - small, pinkish white, swollen sucking insects covered with a layer of wax and clustered along roots. Sometimes 'nests' are found in bark or along the plant rhizome but these are a different species of aerial mealybug hiding from a vigilant grower *S*.

Bush Snails - when disturbed, the living snail seeks shelter in its spiral shell. Even the tiniest snails can damage roots and tender pseudobulbs.

Slugs - Adult slugs and their pearl-like eggs are a portent of disaster. Just when that favorite orchid is about to bloom, they will strike. They hide in the medium and ascend to aerial portions of the plant when it is wetted or during the night.

Sowbugs - these grey brown, armored creatures are seemingly harmless but they chew roots, especially the tips, and also damage tender leaves.

Earthworms - occasionally found in pots that have sat on the ground. Reddish pink earthworms do not cause any damage to living roots, at least as far as we know.

Nematodes - There are many tiny, free-living worms that might be found in composts. They probably do not damage the plant roots.

Earwigs - Denizens of the night, earwigs hide in pots during the day. Soapy water can flush them from hiding. Earwigs may eat blooms, buds, tender root tips.

Roaches - German cockroaches, American cockroach youngsters, and relatives might be found in pots especially if the coarse compost is dry. Roaches will come out from hiding at night and feed on orchids but they generally do not stay in the pots.

We are often preoccupied with pests and how to get rid of them. We can forget that there are a multitude of organisms ready and willing to maintain the balance for us. This is especially true in outdoor setups or where plants are put outdoors for part of the year. If you plan to use pesticides, think about the following suggestions about handling pesticide products.

HANDLING CHEMICALS

1 - Always read the instructions before opening the package.
2 - Wear protective gloves, mask, goggles and coverall when working with pesticides.
3 - Open packages in a well ventilated area.
4 - Prepare solutions in marked containers. Do not mix products unless the instructions state clearly that mixing is possible or desirable. i.e., a wetter sticker with a powder/water spray.
5 - Be aware that some chemicals can be phytotoxic to certain orchids especially when the plants are hot or stressed.
6 - Spray or dust when the air is still. Avoid spraying when there is a wind.
7 - Keep children and pets out of the area.
8 - Store pesticides in an a secure area where they cannot be accessed by children nor easily flooded or dislodged.
9 - Dispose of pesticides according the local regulations.
10- Keep a record of what you applied, when, and the result of that application. Did the pest succumb? If not, should you apply that product again?

SPECIAL NOTES:

Pesticide Phytotoxicity
Plants and especially flowers and buds are often more sensitive to pesticides when they are under stress from excessive heat and/or drought. Test plants before wholesale spraying of a collection. Products based upon organic solvent (emulsions) and products containing sulphur are often more phytotoxic. When given a choice, use a wettable powder preparation in place of an emulsion.

Smoke Fumigators
Never use fumigators in a greenhouse attached to living quarters. Post signs and lock the greenhouse while fumigation is taking place. Ventilate the greenhouse thoroughly before re-entering.

Horticultural Oils
Highly refined oils can be used in some situations to control pests. Test the product on a few leaves before spraying the entire collection. Avoid using oils in hot, sunny weather.

Go Back to Index

TRANSCRIPT

Present were:
55SS
sparkysteve
JCY8S
Josh319
BCPRESS
soobie me
marilyninOttawa
Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
BTague
gaillevy
marylois
Jane5536
paulav
AORCHID
jchandler
doneng
KB Barrett
peterlin
Lanceps
mplewinska

marilyninOttawa
Greetings everyone! I hope that you all had an opportunity to listen to the 'Teddybear's Picnic' tune. The words were the inspiration for tonight's session, namely, 'If you go down to the woods today, you're in for a big surprise'...

marilyninOttawa
Just what did you find Ellen?

55SS (James in Fresno)
I found slug eggs, but that was no surprise to me....

marilyninOttawa
We always know about the big things but it is some of those little critters, bad and good, that we are interested in hearing about!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I think they are centipedes, sowbugs, tiny snmils and mycelium in some of the bark. Marilyn, you forced me to repot some plants

marilyninOttawa
Good to hear that you took the 'plunge' James. Upon finding slug eggs, just what did you plan to do as a strategy to minimize slug damage in future?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
describe slug eggs please

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Marilyn, I have all kind of critters, good thing no mites.

55SS (James in Fresno)
Not sure yet, the plants are in my bedroom, and so far I'm just picking them out when I see them

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn, do you have a secret remedy for slugs?

55SS (James in Fresno)
Clear gel type vitamins with a little white thing inside

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Sort of like frog/toad James?

marilyninOttawa
Sometimes repotting almost all the collection is the only way to rid yourself of burdensome and difficult to eliminate pests such as sowbugs. I know because I just did it.

55SS (James in Fresno)
I would really like to aviod poisons since we have a little chihuahua and I sleep in the same room, so.......

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I agree James. The dogs and grandchildren visit the greenhouse

marilyninOttawa
Slug eggs will resemble pearls about 2-3 mm in diameter. Generally there will be a few clustered together. The color is light brown to grey.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Marilyn, you repotted all? You have so many plants.

55SS (James in Fresno)
and salt is bad for the plants.... I found close to 50 or so in a 6" pot of Bifrenaria

soobie me (Sue in NC)
What about a mild saltwater dunk followed by a thorough drenching with fresh water?

55SS (James in Fresno)
That would take me quite a while, plus the plants would all have to come downstairs and outside

Josh319
Or an ammonia and water mixture...

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
What's the bush snail egg looks like, anyone know?

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Those sound like the toad or frog eggs that I had in my plants that were white about the size of bee-bees and had some gelatinous stuff around them.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Hi, all. I find that bleach in a spray bottle kills slugs and snails quickly (only those crawling on the greenhouse floor, of course!)

55SS (James in Fresno)
The ones I have are definitely slugs cause she/he/it was still laying when I found it...

soobie me (Sue in NC)
Or maybe just soak the whole pot for a couple hours, and the slugs would drown?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn what can you do about the Oxalis? Can't seem to get rid of it

marilyninOttawa
My remedy for slugs is not so secret. Avoid infestation by keeping plants off the ground and the growing area free of plant debris and hiding places. Elimination of breeding slugs by baiting the growing area in spring, just after a thorough watering and nightfall. The slugs come out, picnic and never make it to morning, bless them. I use a granular metaldehyde bait. There are also pellets and a liquid preparation. Do not spray plants with the liquid prep! The solvent is toxic to some orchids.

marilyninOttawa
Frogs in pots are a good sign that the environment is not toxic for them. Frogs are quite sensitive to pesticides! Frogs eat a lot of pests so I like to encourage them and their toad cousins.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Paula, even if you spray on the potted plants, if you rinse the leaves off it won't hurt the plants. I stop the fungus spots on one of my Catt. by using 50% bleach.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Are we only talking about pests in the pots or all orchid pests?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Didn't do your homework Paula??

marilyninOttawa
James, if you want to eliminate slugs and not use pesticides then the only ways are avoidance and/or repotting. You must wash the roots with a robust spray of water to dislodge young slugs and/or eggs. Big ones will be long gone. Repot into fresh medium that has not been standing outdoors developing its own slug colony!

55SS (Jaes in Fresno)
Dang, I just did that a month ago....

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
What can you do for snow mold & other webby things besides repotting because I think that the bark may be the start of it. When I repot sometimes the bark has a webby clump which I avoid but later I seem to find whitish mold.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
marilyn--I feel that most pests come from plants that were just purchased.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Yes, the Metaldehyde granular works very well for me too, only be careful with dogs or cats.

marilyninOttawa
Yes, I have repotted almost all and there were a lot. This is really the only organic way to rid pots of sowbugs and other bigger critters. The orchids did need repotting so it was not a lost effort. They are already showing that they like it.

jchandler
How can you get rid of pill/sowbugs in the pot without using dursban?? A.K.A. roly-polys

marilyninOttawa
50 or so eggs or slugs James?

55SS (James in Fresno)
Eggs, if there were that many slugs, I would go crazy!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Afraid all of Louisiana is simply buggy. Worse offenders are slugs and roaches. Nothing stops them - they wait outside in the grass. NOTHING is on the ground, they crawl up. At a minimum it takes a slug getter application in April and again in October. (Try the new teflon barrier strips arond places that critters can ascend. ML)

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Jane, I agree, sun drying the bark will help.

55SS (James in Fresno)
I put some into glass vials filled with water to see what happens, and at first, the things inside got bigger, but now everything is turning orange

marilyninOttawa
I would stay away from salt water applications entirely. Better to remove the plant, pour boiling water over the medium, rinse with cool water then repot.

marilyninOttawa
Bush snail eggs must be quite tiny. I have never observed any. Snail eggs are often laid in a row of clear gel in a humid area.

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Why not put the medium in the microwave?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Marilyn what did I find that looks like a centipede or millipede (True centipedes are essentially harmless to the plants. They are carnivores)

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Mine weren't in a row Marilyn they were in little clumps. I think they were little frogs.

marilyninOttawa
Gail. What you describe is likely to be tiny tree frog eggs. Some of these frogs pass their tadpole stage in the egg. The tiny babies are soooo cute! Lizard eggs sometimes can be found in tropical collections. These eggs are white. oval, and leathery. Neither frogs nor lizards cause any damage to your orchids. Lizards eat a lot of pests and probably some smaller snails too.

marilyninOttawa
Did you capture the laying on video James *G* I have never observed that action. Must have been fascinating.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Someone mentioned pouring a pinesol mixture thru pots.Does this kill them or do you have to do a Mexican hat dance on them as they scurry out of plants? (I suspect that the dance is also necessary ML)

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
marilyn---we call the tiny frogs 'water meter frogs' cause the like to live in there

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
I have lots of lizards in my back yard, many in my GH too. The eggs are quite large compared to the snail eggs.

marilyninOttawa
The slugs could drown if a plant were soaked for hours but the plant might also suffer. It really is easier to unpot the plant, eliminate the slugs or repot into fresh medium.

marilyninOttawa
Oxalis is very difficult to control with herbicides without damaging the orchid. The best yet most tedious method is to unpot the plants, remove all the medium and invasive weed then repot in fresh medium.

55SS (James in Fresno)
What about ferns? I have a fern growing in a Lemb. bictoniense hybrid that has a 5 leaflet palmate leaf/frond

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I agree on Oxalis, Marilyn - just put a Dendrobium into a basket - had to break pot and really work out Oxalis - only bad case I had (knock on wood).

doneng (Don from Boca Raton)
Karmex kills oxalis and not rchids (note any herbicide kills catasetums) (see .pdf at http://www.cwc-chemical.com/Products/E.I.DupontProducts/karmexdf.htm)

marilyninOttawa
I regularly get ferns popping up in my Masdevallia pots. The spores must come with the moss as these are not native ferns nor do I cultivate sporulating ferns in the collection. Fern roots can quickly fill a pot. They will compete with an orchid for water and nutrients and so should be removed. I would not worry about tiny ones but once they have developed enough leaves (2-3) to be grabbed by fingers, I recommend that they be pulled out. You could use fine pointed scissors to cut the fern free.

55SS (James in Fresno)
I took this one out and potted it up separately cause it looks neat

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I can keep it picked out of the relatively few pots that it starts in - but that one dendrobium would form a MAT in a few days - too many deep down roots and too many tightly packed dendrobium roots.

marilyninOttawa
Thank you for that note Don. I am not familiar with Karmex. I would be careful with herbicide application to very valuable plants just in case. If Catasetums are susceptible then Mormodes, Cycnoches, Galeandra, etc might also be susceptible. Take care!

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
I have one like that too Lois--always tearing away at it

marilyninOttawa
There is never an objection to cultivating interesting ferns separately.

marilyninOttawa
The problem with Oxalis is that it reproduces both vegetatively and by seeds. Each little bit can form another plant - and they do! Picking it does keep the problem under control but when it comes time to repot, do a thorough clean up of all bits. (Note that the Karmex product affects seeds at the time of emergence and young weed seedlings only. Beware of plant toxicity ML)

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
What about webs in the bark--anyone else come across this? It is dry bark-no insects that I can see.

marilyninOttawa
If the webs are wispy then they may be from small spiders. More substantial yet still small webs could be places secured by spiders to lay their eggs.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Marilyn,that's when a pair bonsai tweezer comes handy.

marilyninOttawa
I agree Barbara. Tweezers work wonders. I use them to remove small ferns without disturbing Masdevallia roots.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Sometimes the bark seems to be in small clumps because of it--I microwave mix to kill anything that it might be in it.

marilyninOttawa
I wonder if anyone found springtails or predatory mites when they unpotted plants?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
The greenhouse is the only area of my life that is cleaned up, caught up (for the moment!) Have to pot 16 phrags tomorrow - and that's it - nothing til spring except a Bob Betts that I will let bloom and pot up this winter.

55SS (James in Fresno)
I found springtails, and see a 2mm bright red-orange mite looking thing occasionally

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Jane - it's not webby white stuff is it?

marilyninOttawa
If the bark is new, I wouldn't worry about pests. The spiders would be harmless to the plants and certainly would leave once the bark was wetted prior to potting up.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Jane I used to soak bark in Physan ove night, then I got lazy.... now I just let it sun dry for a day or two.

marilyninOttawa
Ah james. That bright orange mite could be a predatory mite. Good sign!

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
James, I have those orange red mite too, it didn't seems to hurt any plants, I wonder....

55SS (James in Fresno)
OK, then I need to stop squashing them.....

marilyninOttawa
When I examined a Catasetum this evening, I found a tiny parasitic wasp lapping exudate from the leaf. I do not know if the wasp will find any aphids in which to lay its eggs.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Good to know Marilyn.

55SS (James in Fresno)
What other predatory mites are there? The red-orange ones move really fast

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Lois, I've got that on some phrags--waiting 'til they stop blooming & will repot--the other webby clumps are in my bark mix in shed--reminds me of that shredded bark mix that some use

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Marilyn sounds like Jane has snow mold.

Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Too much water?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Ever since I stopped using any kind of bark I haven't seen snowy mold in quite awhile.

marilyninOttawa
Which predatory mites you have will depend upon where you live. There are small tan-colored mites which thrive at temps above 21C (70F).The bright orange mite is widespread from coast to coast. Another brown mite feeds on fungus gnat larvae and other soil-dwelling pests. These are mostly temperate in distribution.

55SS (James in Fresno)
What do the bad mites look like?

marilyninOttawa
Snow mold would appear on bark if it is/was damp. Could be.

55SS (James in Fresno)
I see books showing the damage that they do, but almost never the critter itself

marilyninOttawa
Snowy mold is a fungus using the bark as a source of nutrient. Probably many different mushroom-type fungi produce mycelium which is generally called snowy mold.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Come to think of it, what damage do the springtails do to the plants?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
A box of Escar-go just got here this weekend - will put it out after watering tomorrow and let you know how it does.

marilyninOttawa
Good question James. The bad mites are usually either tan with two dark spots or red. There are many species of mite pest but they generally are slow moving, aggregate in clusters, and produce symptoms which alert you to their presence. Silvery or darkened leaf surfaces, webs with tiny moving mites and pearly eggs suspended within are signs of mite infestation.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
My question is, if the snowy mold feeds on the bark, not the orchid roots, why is it bad for the orchid?

55SS (James in Fresno)
I have also seen a couple of all black and black with tan leg mites, but they were all very fast, I don't see any mite damage yet, so I'm assuming I should leave them alone when I see them?

marilyninOttawa
Springtails are more a symptom of moist decaying medium than a cause of damage. While moist, fresh medium will support springtail populations, the more rotten the bark, the bigger the springtail population. Time to repot!! *G*

marilyninOttawa
Thanks Lois. Looking forward to your report.

55SS (James in Fresno)
Also, do the predatory mites munch anything else besides other mites?

marilyninOttawa
Magda, snowy mold is not necessarily bad for orchids but it indicates a potential for problems. The mold can sometimes overgrow and smother tiny seedlings but that is unusual. When organic substrates like bark chips become wetted, they begin to decay. A continuum of different fungi, bacteria and yeasts feed on the bark until the food source is depleted. Snowy mold occurs at one stage of this continuous process.

marilyninOttawa
Fast moving mites are generally predatory mites. They are your friends.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Thanks, Marilyn. That explanation makes sense.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Marilyn - that explanation is definitely one for the WoW pages.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Thanks Marilyn, that sure made it clear for me, now I don't have to kill those fast moving red mites.

mlp2
Looks like I missed the explantation for the WoW pages!

marilyninOttawa
Some predatory mites are omnivores. They can also feed on fungi, pollen and other tiny animals. Not all predatory mites are omnivores. When one wishes to maintain a beneficial mite population in a greenhouse, in the absence of prey, one should use these omnivorous species. In the absence of food, obligate predators will starve and disappear.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif)
I've got something like dry rot or fungus in my older bag of bark, is it ok to use? I grow outdoors so it isn't too sterile.

55SS (James in Fresno)
Yeah, I've noticed ladybugs/ladybird beetles disappear once they fix the aphid problem

mlp2
I've been planning to buy some predators for mites but just never got around to it. Old story. I've just been spraying with soapy water under the Phallie leaves but they still get ahead of me sometimes. (I have observed mite problems vanish when cultural conditions improved - ie warm, humid ML)

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Have we discussed ants yet??????????

marilyninOttawa
Thamina. When bark chips are stored damp, they will begin to decay. Redwood and fir bark will take much longer to decay than say pine bark. Take a piece of bark in your hand and see if it crumbles readily. If it crumbles, then I suggest that it is no longer suitable for potting most orchids. You could however, incorporate the bark chips into a compost for Spathoglottis, Bletia, Jewel Orchids and similar terrestrials.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
Gotcha.

55SS (James in Fresno)
Not that I know of... last time I had ants was in a big Cym and I just flushed it with the hose every 30 min, 5 or 6 times. As they were carrying out their eggs, I was waiting with a can of Raid .

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I have a lot of ants on my buds and seem to think that they aren't an asset. Don't they suck the juice out of the buds? (Ants may use buds as a water source under dry conditions ML)

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Re ants - reran a short article from the Heart o' Texas OS newsletter by Harvey Holland, accredited judge - says ants are the WORSE critter one can have because they carry all the other pests and diseases all over the greenhouse...therefore, they are NOT harmless.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I know that ants are supposed to carry scale. I try spraying them with the alcohol, 409 mixture!

marilyninOttawa
If you have an ant colony in a pot then the best way to eliminate the colony is to unpot the orchid, wash away the ants and especially the queen ant that is the source of the burgeoning colony, then repot. If the problem is ants walking all over your orchids, then it is time to find out what they are feeding upon. Is it simply exudate from healthy orchids or is it hidden scale or mealy bug? If the former, simply put a barrier between the orchids and the ant colony. If the latter, eliminate the scale problem.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
...and supposedly transmit virus from plant to plant. I get fire ants in some pots.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Gail the Dursban granular works very well to rid of ants. Yak, Lois, fire ants?

marilyninOttawa
There is a new teflon barrier tape that is supposed to stop ants and such from walking onto whatever you you don't want them to walk onto. I have also used posts standing in kerosene (standard in the Caribbean), posts coated with Tanglefoot, but what worked best was eliminating the scale infestation. Once they had little to feed on they left.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Got something in with the Escar-go, but afraid to use in pots - made from 'cube root'??????? (This is a rotenone product and is useless against ants ML)

marilyninOttawa
We do not have fire ants. How do you deal with those? Do they fly?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes - picked up a pot last year and they attacked my arms from the pot and legs from the floor at the same time - literally threw it out the door so I could get them off me! First I knew I had them....since then, ever so often I find them in 2 - 3 pots.

marilyninOttawa
Dursban is a chlorpyrifos product. It is a residual insecticide.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
No, they bite - and leave red blisters that make sores that last 3-4 weeks.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
Ants farm aphids and mealybugs, carry them onto buds.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Some people are highly allergic to fire ants.

marilyninOttawa
Do you have Derris Dust Lois? (Cuberoot, Rotenone, Derris are the same thing ML)

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
You fight them here like the roaches and slugs - St Augustine grass full of them...the hills move from spot to spot, yard to yard.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Fire ants do not fly. (at least not during the colony stage). They sting hard en masse and what they sting swells up and then you get little blisters from the venom. They are pretty yucky all around. very aggressive, too. It's enough for you to just be standing around in the general area of the colony and you'll be getting stung.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Never heard of it, Marilyn.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
They communicate in some fashion and attack from different directions!

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
I got rid of my fire ants with a molting inhibitor a few years ago. Have not had a problem since (knock on wood).

marilninOttawa
We have stinging ants in our lawn. They sting which produces a hard, itchy welt on you know what if you have sat upon the lawn. They thankfully never enter pots or appear in the orchid area. Only certain ants feed on sugars. The fire ants may be using the pots as a home more than using the orchid exudates as food. Comments?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes, Gail - that attack sent me to the hospital with asthma attack.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
'molting inhibitor'?? This stuff they sent made from 'Kube'? root is called Rotenone...ever heard of it?

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Marilynin. Fire ants are pretty carnivorous. I think they hang out in the pots but don't eat the plants or their secretions. They are into protein. :)

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
I think they are looking for a home,but they also like the nectar - have seen them there.

mlp2
I'm back, I got kicked out of WBS and couldn't reconnect without going completely off Mindspring and starting all over so I missed some of this. I suggest using the ant baits available everywhere that use the juvenile hormone. The ants are attracted to it and then cannot reproduce. Put the baits under a little shelter to keep them dry. Many times I have unpotted a plant and found the pot full of a big huge ant nest. I was told they cannot carry virus but they do 'farm' other harmful insects on plants.

marilyninOttawa
Rotenone is derived from Derris Root. It is a natural product that is used to control caterpillars and other chewing insects. Its shelf life is limited under hot, humid conditions. Keep it away from fish. I do not believe that this would be useful to control ants.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
The molting inhibitor was called 'Logic,' but they keep changing the name on it. It did not kill the ants right away but it prevented the larvae from developing into adults, so eventually the whole colony died out. Not Rotenone.

marilyninOttawa
Many of the products containing juvenile hormone an insect growth regulators are effective at controlling insect pests.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
This weekend someone told me to sprinkle grits on an ant hill - they carry it to the queen, she eats it and it swells up in her and kills her... ever heard of this?

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I don't have nests in pots usually, Probably because I water with a hose weekly.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Grits and ants. Yes, I've heard of it and it has worked for some people but not for others.

mlp2
Lois, someone must be pulling your leg!!

marilyninOttawa
I wonder if it is not some protein in the corn that is causing the ants' demise.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Perhaps, Marilyn - but it was explained to me that she eats the dry granules and they swell up and she splits.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Lois. The pots that had fire ants in them, were they sitting on the ground, on the bench, hanging, or what?

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
They got me again - only about a dozen bites out in the lath house...granted most are on the ground, but they do take up housekeeping in couple or more pots thru the summer.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Magda - on the lath house benches.

mlp2
There are special baits sold for fire ants. I believe on is called Andros or something like that. You put it around the nest and when they take it to the queen they all die.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
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marilyninOttawa
It is getting on folks and it has been a long day. Thank you so much for your useful comments and interesting questions. This weekend our Canadian Orchid Congress is having its convention in Montreal. Yours truly will be there complete with a compendium of the various orchid conservation pre-discussion material I have shared with you over the past 16 months. This will hopefully bring more members to Orchid Safari. Looking forward to more and more like tonight. The next session wil be titled 'Getting to Know You' inspired by that hit song from 'The King and I' Until then, Good night.

mplewinska (Magda from Miami)
Good night, Marrilynin. Thanks for being host tonight.

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Yes - ants, mosquitos, wasps!

marylois (northwest Louisiana)
Thank you, Marilyn - for giving us so much of your time when you are so very busy!

KB Barrett
Yes, Marilyn, thanks for all your time!!

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Marilyn, thank you so much, I've learned a lots from you. Until next time

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