OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

Present were 24:

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
*jds-calusa (need data)
thillson (Tom Hillson)
Andy N VA (N Virginia)
send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
johngingarland (TX)
graphicgreg (Fla)
JanetteH ((In the foothills of NC)
BTague (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Ann12 (Dallas TX)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
marylois (NW Louisiana)
bradwinn (Brad - MI)
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, Fl)
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
GUEST jimw (558) (Fla)
Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
Orchid Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
*paphiopedilum (Orchid Nut in Natchez, MS) (given name?)
Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
*calvoclan (need data)
marilyninOttawa

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Howdy, when do we get this discussion on the road. Lois asked me to talk about web development and managing a web site. I would rather answer peoples' questions than rant on about my ideas on what it the right way to do things.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Aw c'mon Tom, we could use a good rant tonight.

JanetteH ((In the foothills of NC))
Personally, Tom, I would like to hear something about web development and your ideas since I know nothing.

Ann12
Hi, Tom. I also know nothing about web sites. Start at the beginning, please.

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Tom, I am interested in what is your favorite software??

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Can you start with the programs you suggest we use?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Ok, Tom. Have you used Mymidon?

jds-calusa
Tom, I know how to develop my web page, but I don't know what to do after I made it. How do I get it out on the web and what are the cost?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I use the simplest way of doing my web editing, a text editor, or a program like HomePage or Visual Page. I do not like the all encompassing programs, but I am from the group that learned html before html editors.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I use Front Page and FTP to put it on the web.

Ann12
I'm in over my head already. I'll let my daughter do my page for me. She speaks the language.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
What is Mymidon, John? Sounds like an anti-depressant.

Andy N VA
I still do all my HTML manually.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
With Front Page you don't need HTML.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Mymidon is a program that takes what you do in a word processor and makes it into HTML so that you can upload it easily.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
As do I - I do have a $10 web 'Maker' that let's me click to get paragraphs and sentence breaks - and best and most important of all, see what it will look like BEFORE putting it on line...saves lots of FTPing.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
You always need HTML, Frontpage and similar programs just hide it from you.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Tom, how about a few words about lay-out ... and things for 'beginners' to avoid at first.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Layout should start out simple. Look at my web site for information on how to get started and links to other beginners sites.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
HTML is like any craft - I use several different tools; Notepad, Netscape Gold, Homesite, Dreamweaver or Frontpage - whatever does a given job the best and easiest.

Andy N VA
There are also a lot of good books out there for beginners. The one I purchased had a lot of do's and don't that helped a lot.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I like to recommend that beginners look at a simple program like Homepage or VisualPage that will do all the coding for you but will let you see the HTML code so you can learn what is happening.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
[Looking at Tom's site] Oh, boy! You too love parvis! *G* Tell us about the Orchid Database which you have for downloading, please.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
The database is a simple FileMaker database I created to help me keep track of my plants and their blooming. It is nothing fancy, but it fills my needs and that of a lot of friends.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Good point, Tom - if you don't see it, you never learn. I found the easiest was to print out an HTML primer from the net, then go to pages I liked, copy the source code, and play with it in my $10 'webpage maker'.

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Are there any free downloads off the net, or are the good ones commercial?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
The hardest part of having a web site is updating it. One of the thing most people never do is set up a regular plan to update their site with new information. Look at how many sites out there have old or out of date info.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
You provide so many GREAT orchid backgrounds, lines, etcetera, it would make one's first webpage a work of art!! I remember going through 30-40 web sites for the right lines, buttons - which weren't really quite right.

Andy N VA
You're making me feel guilty now, Tom. How long has it been since I updated mine. But I have a good excuse....I've only had the use of one leg for the last 6 weeks.

Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
I use an AOL program to do my website, it's very very easy. By the way, I had no problems getting on tonight. Hi all.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
There are a tremendous amount of online resources for learning web design - one of my 'start' pages is the Webreview which not only has the cutting edge stuff but a lot of basic resources such as font specs.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Art is a hobby of mine, I love to photograph my orchids and I do some watercolor painting. Taking that to the web was easy and fun. You should have seen some of the terrible stuff I created that never got posted.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
If you are looking for resources, you might try this that claims to be "The Complete Resource for All Web Builders" [And it looks pretty darn complete!...mlg]

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Thanks Earl, another bookmark.

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Another unEQualed EQuitant fan!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
One of the programs I mentioned VisualPage from Symantec is what I have started to use to maintain my site. It allows me to manage all my content in a folder on my Hard Drive. I can then upload the pages that have been changed and keep all my links up to date.

JanetteH ((In the foothills of NC))
I have been using your wallpaper images for some time now. They are great and thank you for sharing with us.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
One bad thing about using lots of links to other sites is you have to check your link pages to make sure that the site you linked to is still there.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
What is your opinion of MS FrontPage?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I use that also, Marla.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Amen! Have that prob on OS archives - and that is why I put the pix used right on the OS site and do not link them any more...folks tend to remove and change them. *S*

thillson (Tom Hillson)
If you like my wall paper wait till I get some more of my new stuff done and on my site. I have been experimenting with Montages of orchids.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
That sounds fantastic.

JanetteH ((In the foothills of NC))
That should really be interesting, Tom. Will watch for it.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Frontpage is good, but I do not like its habit of bloating the HTML code. It adds lots of unnecessary code that I would never use.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
That said I have lots of friends who use it and swear by it. It has never struck the right cord with me, so I stay away from it.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Anybody out there use a Mac?

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
I find that with most HTML makers - a page can be so much cleaner.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I am a Mac fanatic from 1984 started with a Mac+ of my own and I now have a 7300 with a G3 card.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
From "Brooklyn North Software".......Did you know that one web page in every four presents dead hyperlinks (broken links) to its visitors? In England alone, a recent study showed 51% of web sites had links that didn't work.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
How about the iMac?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
There is a program called Mizer that I have used to clean out excess HTML from my documents.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Since Word and WordPerfect now have a pagemaker capability, I've found most of my incoming email is repeated in HTML! Folks should really learn to turn that off...uses up twice as much internet time.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Whatsa Mac ?

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
That's what my $10 super buy was, Earl! Brooklyn North!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
The iMac is a great beginners Mac and a good all around Mac. I need slots for my own use, so I need somthing more than the iMac

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
HTML Asst?

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Mizer...I'll look for that, Tom.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Tom is that Mizer with a z or an s?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Because I have not got all the pages up I want connecting to it. I started to add them, then got busy on a Fall project here at work. I also have a Masdevallia link I am working on. [<BLINK>FLEUR ALERT</BLINK>]

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Yes, Earl - Web Asst Pro 2 SE (ancient!) from Brooklyn North.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Tom, what about copyright issues and using other pictures that you find on the web for your own pages. Is this OK or what is the procedure ?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
It is Mizer from Antimony Software. Take a look at it.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Tom, what are a few things we should look for when selecting a web hosting service?

marilyninOttawa
Hello, Tom. I was wondering how much you time you estimate it could take a knowledgeable person to keep a modest website updated. Say an orchid society site with monthly changes to program, show table results, news, etc. I am thinking of an estimate for the updating of the site and not the creation of the news items per se.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Copyright is a nasty issue that I am looking into. With the new communications law, I may have to go look and find you if some of the photos friends gave me to post were copyrighted by someone else. Fortunately I am using 90% of my own stuff in my new images.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Don't many sites just ask for credit when using their pictures?

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
If the site gives you permission on the page (some do), you simply have to include a header (footer) such as 'copyright by James Smith, used with permission'.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Yes, if a person has created art work or photos and posted them on the web and lets you use them if you give them credit do so.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, Fl)
Amount of time keeping a page updated is a great question.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I know I only ask people who use my stuff to credit it to me.

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Safest on copyright is ask for use, explain will be personal page and almost always ok. Stickier if commercial site, may have to pay.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Most people who allow their photos to be used on other websites usually do so if you provide a link back to their site.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Well Carol, being that you asked - I spend at least a week per month updating the Orchid Photo Page.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
To get back to the question on time to maintain a site. I think about 5 hours a month would be more than enough for a small site, but a large site can take lots of time.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, Fl)
A week a month, yuk! [But its a huge site, Carol, you wouldn't need to do that. --KB]

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Yes, Marilyn - depends on the size of the site - I update the Shreveport OS site monthly - takes about an hour. For each update (each photo) to Amazing World of Orchids, I estimate a half hour...for OrchidSafari - a life's work *LOL*

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What are the pitfalls we should be aware of?

Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
I would invite everyone to check out my site devoted to Equitant Oncidiums - click on my name... [Blatant Self Promotion, Matt?? *G*!! --KB]

marilyninOttawa
I realize that many people do not appreciate the continued investment in time to keep a site fresh. It well could be a life's work *S*

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
I designed Orchid Digest for quick update and it takes about two hours quarterly - but some new changes about to take place will make it about 8-12 hours quarterly...a week rebuilding.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
We know Lois - the OS is indeed your life's work and we all appreciate it deeply - you are creating a valuable resource for the orchid community, I see the hours that go into it.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Marylois is right a good design can reduce your time spent on line. A bad design can take lots more time.

marilyninOttawa
Ah! That's the key. Design for quick update. What are some of the guidelines to achieve such goals, Tom?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Keep your site simple.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site) Ah, but Steve and Gail taking the minutes during the meeting (copying transcripts), and Kathy Pagemilling after a quick edit makes it SO much easier!!! Bless 'em! I just re-edit, add the new header and footer, and upload.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Do not use Graphics for text even if it looks fancy. It slows you down when it comes to doing updates. [Look at some sites and you see lots of text that are really graphics if you want to change something it requires creating a new graphic not just editing the text. --TH]

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Create a simple layout with similar features on every pages. That way you do not have lots of unique pages to work on. You can have one template you work on with different info on them.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
I have pet peeves in homepages - text that blinks, JAVA ERRORS which knock one right out of the ballpark, frames that do the same...still think most folks out there have modest machines with 15 inch screens and pages should be made for all.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I like using tables for fast layout of links and info. It helps you organize with out using lots of complex code.

BTague (Barbara, No.Calif.)
Lois & Kathy & Steve & Gail. Without you guys, we won't have our OS.

marilyninOttawa
Say we have a show table style with reporting of winners by alliance, i.e., Cattleya. Would it be more efficient to create a form from a data base or is there another easier way? We have been working with ColdFusion software at work but is it really a better way to go for regular updating?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Do not use Java, JavaScript, or Animated Gifs unless you have a real need for them.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
*YES* - ML. If only.....

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Databases are great, if you have the time to build it and to maintain it. The worse database run sites have have seen are not updated enough.

marilyninOttawa
There was one page that I had to visit recently but it was a nightmare of metallic shimmer and moving parts. You could get seasick staring at it! Why do some tech companies do this??

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Also do not use frames, or lots of graphics on a page they make it harder to maintain.

calvoclan
Is anyone familiar with a seminar called marketing madness by Ron Quintero?

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
A good rule of thumb for page design is to start with a 600 pixel wide table - this confines your content for 640 x 480 display and everyone can see it easily

thillson (Tom Hillson)
There are some sites what use dtml where you can define layers of objects. They are great if you have a 10megabit connection to the net.

marylois (TOPIC: Tom Hillson, Building a Web Site)
Yep! tables do make keeping pages together easier...when I said 'no frames' I mean the 'split pages'

thillson (Tom Hillson)
But they are terrible if you are coming in over a modem. I tried one and dropped because it would create nothing but problems for me.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Why doesn't everyone send me a list of 'Top Ten' peeves re: websites we have seen and would like to use 'if only ....'? [Take Earl up on this - send your input...we'll get him to correlate results...mlg]

Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
Are any of you using cable modems??

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I don't know if I could stop at 10. I have lots of thing that irritate me on the web.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
(%^)

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I have not seen them, but I have seen ADSL which US West is putting in around here a nice 256KB all the time.

marilyninOttawa
I have two peeves. One is when what you are searching for is buried in a part you would never consider likely. A second peeve is sites with only e-mail or web contacts when you know the company has an address and a telephone.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Tables are a great way of laying out sites. You can put graphics and text next to each other with out having to use frames or other complex tricks.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Sometimes I like to use a small borderless frame at the top of a website to provide a stationary and consistent set of navigation links - if kept small it is almost transparent.

marilyninOttawa
I take it, Tom, that you would suggest the 'table' route for regular structured updates such as show table results, program items, etc?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I have even setup tables inside tables for complex layouts. If you learn to work with them you can do just about anyting and any browser over 2.x will see it correctly.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
On some of the pages I have set up on our College server we have constant button bar in a part of the table always on the side, top or bottom of the page.

Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
An orchid website that I can't stand to navigate in is the AOS site - I never know where I am, the bookstore is very complicated and I hate it when I get trapped in the Pathfinder areas

marilyninOttawa
I want to incorporate a design which would permit various 'editors' to enter and update their material, with password permission and control, of course. Any thoughts on web site security Tom?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I agree the AOS site is too complex. but one thing I realy hate are site that spawn advertisments in little windows they pop up all the time.

graphicgreg (almost autumn in SoFla)
Well folks, I have some other work to do and would like to take this opportunity to mention that we have TWO interviews with the new Pres. of the AOS now online at the O zone. Bye!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Security comes in lots of flavors.

marilyninOttawa
Sounds tasty *G* Type on!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
You have security for the web server, and security for special pages you do not want everyone to see. Security for a server is part of the technique you learn if you setup and manage the whole system.

marilyninOttawa
Do you suggest that we create certain pages for 'general' access and others for restricted access?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Security for pages can be as simple as setting up an htaccess file and that defines who can access some of your pages. The server has to support this function.

marilyninOttawa
Is this a common server function or something unique to only a few?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
We set up secured areas by moving the pages we want into a subdirectory on the server and setting up the access file for who can access those pages.

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
I hate when text color is close to wallpaper, or wallpaper is too busy for text.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
This is common to most servers. I use Unix servers, but all will work with some flavor of security.

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
My complaint about AOS site is that you can get everything but the bulletin board from reading the magazine, nothing new. Also, I joined 2 different things like ichat hunting for their elusive chat room. never found it. Cluttered up my memory.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
If you want to know if your server has security talk to your server web master or ISP.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I hate text that is too small and hard to read. I make all my text large by web standards as I like to read it without straining.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yes, Thamina, the BBS at the AOS is how we all met originally, and it still is the only decent thing on their site!

marilyninOttawa
Thank you, Tom. Just the concepts I wanted to have clarified!

thilson (Tom Hillson)
If you really want to learn how to get into doing web stuff. Setup a server of your own and manage it on a test basis. You can do this on any Mac or PC and it can be fun.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Tom, we people over 40 appreciate Large Fonts!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Those of us at 2 score and 10 love them. Especially with my bifocals.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Tom, you mean become your own ISP?

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
I think the one I hate worst is the one with red or blue text on a black background. Can't read a darned thing!

thillson (Tom Hillson):
ISP is your Internet Service Provider. The company you dialing through for Internet access. Most of them offer web service as part of the package.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Right, so what did you mean by 'set up a server of your own'?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
On your computer you can install a web sever with all the functions of an external system. You can access it like you were on the net.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
These are programs you an buy... or what? Sorry to be so thick!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
This give you the ability to see how you can setup different options like security, cgi scripts, etc.

marylois
Then do you have to pay UNIX or someone for the space for the personal server?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
It depends on the type of computer you have. I have a web server on my Mac under OS 8.5, I have one on my PC under Windows 95 and a Linux Unix server that I run as my http:www.orchids.iastate.edu

Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
I was so disappointed, I'd thought I have access to all this wonderful research.

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
I currently log on thru the University, but for later... Wouldn't you have to leave computer on 24/7 ??

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Yes if you want others to access it. I leave my computers in my office on 24/7, and my home computer stays on almost that much so I can dial into it and it does not hurt modern systems to stay on all the time. I just turn off the monitor if I am not sitting in front of it.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
You can setup a web server on your computer just to learn. There are lots of freeware and shareware web servers for Macintosh and Windows95/98.

marylois
Still don't understand...know you can buy servers...but where does the 'webspace' come from???

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Go to Tucows and Shareware and you can find them.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yes, why should we be annoyed by geocities when we can be our own server?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
A server is a computer with a program on it that does the web server for you. This can be an older computer like my web server or you can run it on your personal computer if you want to.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I find you can buy an cheap older Pentium computer and setup a linux server very easily. Or you can setup Win95 with a server on it. Or if you have an old Macintosh there are servers that will run on it.

marylois
So I could buy a server, have all the space I want, and just pay INTERNIC for domains???

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Having a server is something you can play with, learn on,or go crazy trying to manage. If you have an ISP they can help set up the domain for you for a cost.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
OOhh, sounds too good to be true!

Equitantman (Matt from Ventura, CA)
LOL Kathy

marylois
So you still need an ISP...what's the advantage of one's own server?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
If you are at an educational institution like I am find out what their polices are toward individual servers.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
You need an ISP if you do not have a network connection through any other method. If you have a cable modem or an ADSL you have an ISP that will let you do almost anthing you want.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
The advantage of having your own server is you control they system and how much space you have. You also can control what you put on it with no restrictions except for the normal legal and moral ones.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
This sounds like something I just can't believe is true. I can be my own server, like as a subdirectory of my hosting ISP?? I don't need WBS or Geocities, or anyone else?? I can be KB.com?? For a price? just leave the computer on 24/7?

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
I just graduated, but they haven't cut me off yet. Don't want to make inquiries or they may realize and zap me!! (tee-hee, stealth connection)

thillson (Tom Hillson)
It is not an easy job running your own server. You need to learn alot about how the software functions and you have to set up security against hackers.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Like, who'd hack an orchid site?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
In my case it is just another one of my hobbies. I love orchids, I am crazy about photography and art, and love to play with computers.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
But I suppose they'd steal your, what, site? Put crap all over it??

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Kathy, I almost got a job cuz I visited an Accounting Firm and found nude photos, when I let them know it got me the interview.

thillson (Tom Hillson)
My orchid site was hacked by someone wanting to mess with it. They just deleted a bunch of images, and messed it up. I restored it from my back up. Hackers like to hack and no site is free of them.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Jim, but when they found out it was the bosses photos you were nixed!!

marylois
Sheesh! One of these days!

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Tom, I suppose if it can be done, it will be done!

MiamiBert
Bosses' wife maybe?

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Maybe there was a connection, the 'figures' were correct :-)

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
*G*!!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
You just learn how to keep your site secure and how to lock them out. I have just about run out of stuff, any other questions?

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
More than password protection, like at WBS or Goecities? One more question Tom, about slow loading webpages?

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Security is keeping out people by locking areas they might come in through and removing features you do not use like ftp that can leave holes for hackers.

marylois
So, Tom - with your own server, you could run an orchid chat! *G*

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
I just caught on to the idea of subdirectories, one for photos, one for text, etc. Does that speed the downloading of a page?

marylois
AHA! That's the reason for the separate computer!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Slow loading web pages come from two main areas. 1. pages with too many graphics or too large of graphics. 2. Sites on slow connections to the internet. I have lots of separate directories, they do not slow down anything. If you look at my site you will see that my graphics and text are in several sub directories.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Tom, I have no subdirectories, all in one index page, graphics, text, other pages, everything... I thought separating them out into subdirectories would speed the loading of my page, but it sounds like it's just graphics intensive!

marylois
Look at your site?! I'm gonna copy it, dissect it, and LEARN!!! *G*

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Ditto!!!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Look at Orchidmall Carson has that setup with several directories one for each sub site.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
True!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
I always look at other peoples sites to get ideas. There are hundreds of good sites out there, copy something from all of them and you will learn alot.

[Note: We are talking about clicking on the top menu bar. Under 'View' is an option called 'Document Source' which will show you the HTML the page designer used to set up the page. By viewing their HTML you can learn how they get their pages to layout. --KB]

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Lois, remember when we all learned how to make things blink on the web, now we're talking subdirectories! A long way, baby!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Back on fast loading pages, keep the graphics few and small and a page will generally load fast. Make it with lots of graphis, java, frames, etc. and it will load slow.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
How do you make things blink?

marylois
Yes, Tom - that's how I started...and I still do it from time to time...like I said, just read a simple html primer, pull of what you like, run it thru a simple pagemaker to see how changes work - and you are off and running.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
: )

thillson (Tom Hillson)
Yuk, I hate blink, I have an eye problem and I can not read pages with blinking text!!!!

GUEST jimw (558) (Miami is chilly at 74!!!)
Open and close your eyes real fast

marylois
[blink]blink[/blink] I too HATE BLINKING. Those brackets are carets.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yes, we thought we were all so cute, we blinked for days on the AOS BBS! Then found out how annoying it was!!

marylois
Many, many thanks, Tom - got the newbies on the road, those with a bit of experience thinking again. *G*

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
So how do you do the buttons?

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Thanks Tom, the mind is open again for business!

thillson (Tom Hillson)
That is one thing you want to do is look at all the sites that annoy you and figure out why they annoy you and do not do that.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
HA !!!

marylois
At this site, just type in the url - it automatically makes a button link.

send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
oh....ok

thillson (Tom Hillson)
My wife called and said I need to come home and help her, we will save the questions for next time. I enjoyed myself and I hope you all learned something. If you have questions about web stuff email me at hillson@iastate.edu and I will try to help. Bye.

marylois
Thanks, Tom - it was GREAT! Another time, Tom - we'll get our questions ready! - 30 -