Moderator: Marvin Gerber
WBS, Wed 5 Dec 98
TRANSCRIPT
Present were 29: marvinginhouston marylois ((Louisiana)) marvinginhouston JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA) colinham (Colin (Rockhampton Australia - 100 deg F)) marylois (TopicJapan Grand Prix with Marvin Gerber) marilyninOttawa marvinginhouston marylois (Bossier City LA) marvinginhouston marylois (Bossier City LA) jim4eq (Miami) marylois (Bossier City LA) guycan2 (Guy in Sydney Australia) marvinginhouston jim4eq (Miami, til I saw some scale) marvinginhouston guycan2 (Guy in Sydney Australia) marylois (Bossier City LA) marvinginhouston guycan2 (Guy in Sydney Australia) jim4eq (Miami) marvinginhouston marilyninOttawa prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon) colinham marvinginhouston marvinginhouston clareinla marvinginhouston clareinla Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.) marilyninOttawa clareinla marvinginhouston colinham colinham BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) graphicgreg (in WPB - FL) marvinginhouston marylois Evlyn (Bossier City, LA) marvinginhouston marilyninOttawa marvinginhouston marilyninOttawa Evlyn (Bossier City, LA) clareinla marilyninOttawa marvinginhouston marylois marvinginhouston marylois marvinginhouston dryadella (Peggy) Evlyn (Bossier City, LA) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) dryadella (Peggy) marylois dryadella (Peggy) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois dryadella (Peggy) dryadella (Peggy) onelaelia (ursula in caracas) marvinginhouston dryadella (Peggy) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) marvinginhouston onelaelia dryadella (Peggy) marylois onelaelia dryadella (Peggy) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) marvinginhouston marylois onelaelia marylois dryadella (Peggy) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca) marylois onelaelia Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.) marylois clareinla marvinginhouston marylois marilyninOttawa marvinginhouston marylois clareinla marvinginhouston marylois BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca)
ChuckMyr (Chuck in Austin MN) marylois (marylois@prysm.net (Louisiana)) ChuckMyr (Chuck in Austin MN) marylois (marylois@prysm.net (Louisiana)) ChuckMyr (Chuck in Austin MN) ChuckMyr (Chuck in Austin MN) johngingarland ChuckMyr (Chuck in Austin MN) soobie me (Sue in NC) JR000 (Jerry No. CA) marylois dryadella (Peggy) Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif.) soobie me (Sue in NC) JR000 (Jerry No. CA) marylois BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) Lanceps (Thamina from Manhattan Beach, Calif) marylois JR000 (Jerry No. CA) marylois BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) JR000 (Jerry No. CA) soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) marylois soobie me (Sue in NC) JR000 (Jerry No. CA) marylois Andy NVA BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) Andy NVA marylois Andy NVA JR000 (Jerry No. CA) Andy NVA BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) marylois Andy NVA marylois JR000 (Jerry No. CA) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) Andy NVA Andy NVA JR000 (Jerry No. CA) BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) Andy NVA Andy NVA BTague (Barbara, in raining and cold N. Ca.) marylois Andy NVA marylois
- 30 -
marvinginhouston (Marvin Gerber)
marylois (northwest LA)
Ann12 (Dallas)
sparkysteve (Boca Raton FL)
Josh319 (Joshua IA)
JCY8S (Arcadia CA)
bradwinn (Brad - Rudyard MI)
ChuckMyr (Austin MN)
guycan2 (Guy - Australia)
colinham (Colin - Rockhampton, Australia)
uncleearl (Earl - Vacaville CA)
gaillevy (Boca Raton FL)
soobie me (Susan - Raleigh NC)
johngingarland (Garland TX)
jim4eq (Miami FL)
marilyninOttawa
peeteilis (Tom - Algonquin Island NY)
graphicgreg (WPB - FL)
prankster d (Susan - NE Oregon)
clareinla (Los Angeles CA)
Lanceps (Thamina - Manhattan Beach, Calif.)
Evlyn (northwest LA)
AORCHID (Art, Simpsonville SC)
Sym (Jean - New Orleans LA) Please send e-mail again *blush*)
onelaelia (Ursula - Caracas Venezuela)
dryadella (Peggy - WI)
PaphioDePaphio (Jason - Brooklyn NY)
JR000 (Jerry - northern CA)
Ttea (Tea - San Diego CA) (Email here too, please)
Before we really get going, it might be helpful if the AOS members would grab their July, '95 'Bulletin, and your July '98 'Orchids'. JGP articles in both issues.
Yes, Take a second and run get your 'Orchids' for July 95 and July 98 - haven't had time to scan all the pix and you'll love 'em. Here's one I got done - picture yourself in this humongous orchid show!
There is little doubt that the JGP is the largest Orchid Show in the world. The attendance (+450,000) and the prize money (around $100,000 US) in incredible.
That is great. It looks like the picture Don Hermann showed our society last month.
I thought I recognized someone - third from left in center!!
Marvin, tell us more about the show, if you don't mind.
Greetings, everyone. Thank you for the site pre-visit Marvin. Quite an inspiration.
Any one have any questions about the Tokyo Dome Show aka JGP ?
Tell us, really, how expensive are accommodations in Tokyo? ...prices must be better now that the last two shows...???
Good hotels in Tokyo can run $300 per night; a taxi from Narita (international) Airport can be $250!!!
You gotta be kidding! What does one do to circumvent such high costs???
Sleep 30 to a room?
*ROTFLMAO* Jim!
Try multiplying it by 150% to get the cost in Aussie dollars! I think I may give it a miss.
Group rates, which we negotiated for our tour, have made it possible for us to offer this trip for close to what an unrestricted coach seat from US west coast to Tokyo & return.
I saw where there were hundreds of vendors, how big are their displays?
Are the plants as expensive as the rest of Japan prices?
The vendor booths are about 12'x10'; plant prices vary from $8 for small phals in bloom to $1500 for Paph. rothschildianum in spike.
At those prices you wouldn't have many to take home, come to Oz, they are cheaper.
Any problem getting plants back home, Marvin?
If you have a USDA import permit, and IF you get invoices from the nursery, you might not need a CITES if you are not bringing in species. We are looking in to CITES.
You would have no problem with the Japanese -given that they are not part of CITES.
Guy, problem isn't getting on the plane in Japan, it's getting off in US!
The main thrust of the large commercial and society exhibits in the JGP is massed flowers. It is not unusual to have 100-200 plants of the same grex in one exhibit which might be 30 feet by 20 feet and 20 feet tall.
Marvin, what is the best strategy to view a show like the Grand Prix? Is there a protocol?
I was looking at the photos of past Grand Prix winners. I'm very impressed with the way some of those plants are presented...Cyms in tall bonzai style pots and Neofinetia planted on a mossy mound in a lovely pot.
Marvin, I have heard that the queue to get in can be very loooooong! How long (time) does it take to get in?
Colin - the lines for the JGP are not nearly like what they were at the 12WOC in 1987, but once you are inside the crowds are so large it is almost impossible to stop and really look at a plant or exhibit.
The best way to see the JGP is to judge the show if you are a certified orchid judge. If not, the only way to see and enjoy the Show is to arrange to attend the preview party on the afternoon & evening before the show opens to the public. Once the show opens to everyone, the first day's attendance is usually around 70,000 - you are literally swept along by a river of people.
Marvin, how many would attend the preview party?
Clareinla- there are about 2-3000 at the preview Friday afternoon. The really private preview is Saturday morning at 830AM when Prince and Princess Takamodo come to see the show. The Princess is a hobbyist grower who has taken up most of her husband's sun room with her orchids. That preview, by the way, is limited to members of the Working Committee and guests.
So that's how Bob Hermann got pics of the Prince and Princess!
Aren't preview parties expensive? Does the cost on the pre-discussion data include it?
Is the preview party part of your package? If not, what are the chances of getting a ticket?
Would a show of this magnitude work anywhere else except in Japan?
The tour includes the preview party. I do not believe that a show of this size would be economically feasible any place other than Japan The JGP was a by-product of the Tokyo WOC which was very successful, and the Organizing Committee has expanded the JGP to be the most international show in the
world.
Marvin, what are the criteria to get to judge? Same as WOC or do you have to be 'selected'?
Marv, in that case, just what do you see or can you even get to buy any plants?
Marvin, I have heard that a large walking stick is helpful in getting close to the exhibits
Greg - large stick not much good - no room to swing it.
You poke with it, Marvin! *G*
Do the crowds die down after the first days?
Evlyn - the crowds do get a little smaller after the first two days (Sat & Sun), but I think the slowest days are 30-40,000.
Marvin. Do you have an idea of how much it costs an average Japanese hobbyist to visit the show on one of the public days?
Marilyn - general admission to the JGP is 2,000 yen; about $17 US.
I was curious to know if it was reasonably priced or quite a luxury for the average person to attend. I expect that $17 is quite reasonable.
Know anything about the Hong Kong show, Marvin?
Marvin, if the show is that crowded, how do you even get close to the vendors? Take a number and come back in 2 days? I take it the show is all commercial with no local societies or individual growers?
Can one purchase during the preview party?
Marilyn - preview party is scheduled to be the first time the vendors are permitted to sell. The variety of plants for sale is unbelievable !
Oh! Just being IN Japan is an experience of a lifetime! I adore the shops...one must just get used to the aroma of the place. Marvin - is your tour going to go into Kamakura? The temple there - HUGE Buddha! - the entire city - magnificent.
Marylois - my trip is pretty much orchid oriented, but we do have a day of sightseeing in Tokyo and a free day for special personal doings like shopping. We will go to Mishima to visit Mack Hanajima's nursery (he won the JGP in '95) and also Dogashima which is the most remarkable orchid facility anywhere. (Plants also available including some wonderful minicat meristems at reasonable prices. )
That free day in Tokyo might be well spent taking the train to Kamakura - it's an easy day trip...and one MUST ride at least one Japanese train!
One of the few plants to receive a gold medal at this year's JGP was a Neofinetia, which was not in bloom !!! It did, however, have beautiful variegated foliage. We were told that the plant has been in the same family for five generations. says Neofinetia falcata 'Tenkeifukurinn', exhibited by Masahiro Sassa, Shien.
Is there another neofinetia species besides falcata?
Wonder how much those pots cost
I see the orchid growing is turning to be like the bonsai, soon the price will catch up too.
I picked up a Neofinetia richardson or something like that a couple of weeks ago (the plant and its tag are downstairs in the basement....)
Hawkes and Bechtel-Cribb-Launert show neofinetia as a single species genus...but that's as of 1986.
The leaves on this plant are smaller and the fan shape is flatter (does that make any sense?)
Sure does, Peggy.
How hard is Neofinetia to grow?
Does fine in a small basket in Louisiana, Sue.
Whoops, If I can keep it alive, it will be interesting to see if the flowers are different when and if it blooms. I have falcata and my falcata blooms regularly for me.
I've been growing falcata under lights in my basement for several years now.
How does one grow Neofinetia like a bonsai?
The comment about orchids and bonsai was not very realistic. Orchids are one of the very few anythings which have come down in price considerably over the last 30-40 years and are still coming down due to improvements in growing and meristemming by the better commercials. The only significant process remaining to be conquered is meristemming paphs.
And maybe meristemming masdevallias?
Marv, when I made that comment I was referring to the plant passing down for 5 generations, which in bonsai often do.
Barbara - I missed that aspect completely, you are absolutely right.
Marvin, I meant actually growing Neof. like a bonsai. I have one and grow it in a basket, ascda/vanda-like, and find that in a container it looks so much more elegant. Anyone know how to do this?
Neofinetia is kinda small, bonsai mini? [G]
Neofinetia in a container would sure take GREAT drainage.
Yes Peggy, it is a real mini and clumps with lots of roots.
I have neofinetia in a pot with NZ moss
You may grow neofinetia as an accent plant for display of bonsai. As for potting in bonsai pot, you'll need to repot often and groom like a bonsai.
onelaelia - miniaturizing a plant by trimming its roots is what I understand the was bonsai works. I do not think you can do that with orchids,
Agreed, Marvin...orchids need all their roots - only Fuchs knows how to give a vanda a haircut! *G*
Neof. is small. My question is how do you get it to grow like in Lois' picture of the variegated one?
I would bet on thirty years of Oriental patience!
Those of you going to Japan should try to get a pink neofinetia.
Have you ever seen an accent plant at a bonsai show? You need the right size pot.
Yes, Peggy - wouldn't that be nice?!
That must it Lois, will start trying. I guess moss would be the best medium.
I was in Japan last Dec., 4 days only place I could find orchids was a dept. store roof in Tokyo! I didn't have much notice, Tried to get desk clerks to read the Japanese for me on pages from the 1980's book ' Quality Stream 800 Cattleyas', published by Japan Orchid Society.
Looks like we need a listing of growers in Japan! *S*
Besides having grex en masse, great pots, and plants with no flowers, what else is different about the show compared to others in US?
Clare - try to imagine the Superdome in New Orleans, or the Astrodome in Houston with a show covering two thirds of the baseball (or football) field, and the rest of the stadium floor filled with vendors booths. It is absolutely overwhelming. A US show such as Santa Barbara or NY has perhaps 3000 entries.
I keep going back to the tour page - OH! I'd love to do it!
Is it best to carry cash (US) or (YEN) or Travelers Cheques or plastic to pay for purchases? What is the norm at the shows at least previously?
Marilyn- all vendors take yen, many take plastic or greenbacks.
Anyone will take greenbacks...happily. Isn't there a limit of how much US cash you can take out/in? ...not that I'd have to worry.*LOL*
Marylois, I don't think there's a limit but I believe anything over $10,000 does get declared when you come back, excluding plastic.
Lois and all - got to go now; if you have any questions about the JGP or the tour, please e-mail me at
Thanks ever so much for being here, Marvin...looking forward to you coming back soon. Will be envying you your trip!
Thank you, Marvin, it's been nice to see all that.
Hi Lois, everyone else! How was Bob's program Wed??
Bob was excellent, as always - sorry you didn't make it
Hmm, I'll have to check out the transcript. Haven't been able to take in Wed. nights all semester - been teaching that night. Schedule should be changing after break though.
Aren't the transcripts nice? *G* Orchid folks have too much to do to be here every time - but over 250 get the newsletters! BRB
Just think what it would be like if all 250 showed up one night and had things to say!
John, I set up a grow room under lights here in MN. I'm looking for a combination thermostat and timer I can plug a space heater into. Does such a thing exist? Local home improvement stores don't seem to have any.
They're not safe...UL will not list them as far as I know...
bummer!
Does anyone know what L. anceps Veitchiana 'Ft. Caroline' looks like? I
bought one today, couldn't resist!
Isn't that a white flower with a dark lip?
Never quite saw a lip, Jerry - but surely not colored? *LOL*
It's the little vanda-shaped plant with fragrant white flowers..
soobie, white with blue lav-blue) lip. A popular, much cloned variety.
Thamina-- COOL!!!!! I can't wait till it blooms!
Is the L. anceps all white then? As for Neof. and everything else, the potting media is fir bark. As Neof. has fine roots it is planted in fine bark. I don't do anything special for it.
So you are all-bark - I'm all charcoal/perlite/pro-mix, but Jerry Grow still works!
Lois, do they have video out for the JGP? I much rather see video then to be in that crowd..
The Santa Barbara Orchid Society had L. anceps as it's theme for it's show last weekend. I took pics. I can show you next week when I figure out how to use the new scanner.
Never heard of a video. I agree - I'd like to judge one, then play on the streets!
Lois-Don Herman was the speaker at the San Francisco meeting. He is a very interesting person.
Don is an excellent speaker!
Jerry, we are going to hear him in Jan. What was his topic?
The lecture was about pink Catts. Some were outstanding. I didn't see anything better than Pamela Hetherington.
Another question-- does anyone know if Enc. Alato-Phoenicea is a hybrid or a species? The tag was printed in all capitals, so I have no idea.
It's a Hybrid - must be alata x phoenicea...
That's what I figured, but I didn't know if those two existed.
Who did you get it from? Enc. alata x phoenicea is Epi. Orchid Jungle. Sounds strange.
It's from Sun Bulb. The plant is actually Enc. (Alato-Phoenicea x cordigera Kino')
I always make room for another epi/enc!
marylois- ever heard of that cross? Is it pretty?
Sun Bulb tags could mean anything - but likely is Orchid Jungle x cordigera -- what was cordigera before? I'm drawing a blank!
The plant sure is pretty-- lovely plump p-bulbs and roots crawling EVERYWHERE!
Epi. Orchid Jungle is darling!
cordigera=atropupurea
Lois - is that like Enc. cordigera?
Thanks! All my memory bank would give me was 'purpur' *S* Strange they would use an antiquated name for first parent and up-to-date cordigera for second...but that's Sun Bulb. Seems it takes so long to get a new name right, the old one disappears...
Barbara, I collected a Ctsm. carolinianum in Brazil. Didn't know it until it bloomed on my birthday, 11/24. Found out tonight what it was!
Andy, that sounds really grrrrreat!!! How about a pix. Love to see it.
Trying to get one now, Barbara, BRB Try this web site, Barbara, National Capitol Orchid Society
Andy. Award????
No award yet, Lois. Judging was today and it went out of bloom a couple of days ago.
Nice flower, Andy. A long ways for finding it, though.
Lois, I presented our judging center with a AOS Judging Center Handbook for Clerks today. They really liked it. I must say, it turned out nice if I say so myself.
Andy, that is really 'to die for' How lucky you are. Take care of it.
Sure looks awardable.
Thanks Jerry, Barbara, I'm bursting at the seams about it!
Well share it! Please send me a copy. Would me nice all round!
How many plants do you have Andy?
Andy what do you mean by that?
Jerry, So far only two plants have bloomed out. One appendiculatum which went to judging today and that one you see. I'll know more as they bloom out. I also have about 30 flasks of unknown Ctsm seedlings that need to be ID.
Barbara, I mean I am so excited about it that I can't sleep!!
Andy- 30 flasks--are you growing all the plants to maturity?
Andy, I meant that you present a hand book to AOS....?
All the seedlings?, Jerry. Don't think I have the room. If you can believe it, I have seedlings that are 1-1.5 inch tall and .5 in diameter already and they were flasked up in early May!
Sorry, Barbara. We got a bunch of new clerks at our judging center and things have been rather confusing. So I put together a small Handbook for the clerks and their responsibilities. It really worked out well as this months judging went much smoother.
Thanks Andy, I was wondering at first.
I have a paper around here, Andy - tells the steps to proper research...will hunt up and send.
That would be great, Lois. Looking forward to seeing it. Ok, it's midnight here! I'm a pumpkin! Nite skinny ) Looking forward to scanning for you Lois! Send them the best way you think. I live a few blocks from the post office, so I can pick them up if you like.
Nite, Andy - sweet catasetum dreams! I'll get the light on my way out. *S*
*poof*
