OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

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Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Mr. Julius Klehm of Houston... For those who are not aware, Julius is President of SWROGA, an AOS judge, and a judging center training director.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Julius with an unfamiliar name like that, are you related to Arnie?

juliusklehm
We've talked a couple of times but can't find any common ground (for the
origination of our last names --jk.)

MiamiBert
Klehm sounds German. If it's common, what does it mean?

juliusklehm
Klehm is German and Dutch but mostly German. I guess I'm supposed to host a topic tonight but didn't know protocol to start it. The topic is what do want in your Greenhouse - Pretty flowers or award flowers and how do you cull.

Ellen,Smithtown,New York
Sounds great.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Go for it. How does one decide?

juliusklehm
My wife always likes little stuff [orchid with small flowers that I can't see - jk] that is pretty. Personally, I like to have a combination of both, but you run out of greenhouse space.

marilyninOttawa
Hello Julius. I would like to have your opinion as to many times a particular orchid should be flowered before culling. Many that I might have culled on first blooming have gone on to be winners. Comments?

juliusklehm
I say never cull on first blooming unless a dog or bad color. Shape can sometimes be confusing on 1st time bloomers.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Color and shape do enter the picture, I think.

juliusklehm
I try to have at least 2-3 of the same cross so I can have some idea of what to look for. Even then it is not a sure thing unless a cross is generally good.

Ellen,Smithtown,New York
How large a greenhouse?

juliusklehm
I have an 18x32 with the front 8 feet filled with equipment.

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Unfortunately some of us with less experience don't really know what is good shape sometimes. Some of the older awarded catts don't have as good of color and shape as some of the newer ones.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I have many paphs that are old but have a certain charm that the newer hybrids have lost. You just can't beat Paph. Albion for example

juliusklehm
Sometimes color can be affected by the amount of light a plant gets while opening so you have to be careful there.

marilyninOttawa
Julius. I have found that temperature can affect color too, especially the depth of mauve/lavender. Is that your experience also?

juliusklehm
Temperature can effect color in many of the different shades [greens, reds, yellows, etc. - jk]

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Julius, how important are parents in the cross?

juliusklehm
Parent are always important but some breeders have parents that don't look that good but pass on terrific traits.

Clare in LA
I know there must be different standards for culling between us hobbyists and those who hybridize. What would be the common ground for both?

juliusklehm
I think you have to go with what you like and when you find something better you need to cull.

Ellen,Smithtown,New York
That's seems to be when I get in trouble. Can't throw out.

juliusklehm
I know it's hard to cull, but you must. The best way is to find someone starting (to grow orchids) and give them something for them to play with.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
So one carries the culled plants to meetings for auction or sales?

juliusklehm
Auctions and sales are nice but one must never pass dogs on to anyone. Dogs are the best way to discourage someone if they are looking for a start [in having something that is blooming and nice --jk.]

Ellen,Smithtown,New York
I find I like to share parts of plants that I love.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Julius, define what you call a dog...

juliusklehm
A dog is one that has a poor shape, colors may run together or may be limp no stem, etc. As long as a plant puts up nice flowers with good color you should have no fear to pass it on. The best way to pass one on is when it's in bloom, but that means you must wait a season to do so but at least a person knows what it (he/she) is getting (color and shape of the orchid).

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Okay, thanks. So one can get a good idea of what constitutes being BETTER by attending judging to see what wins then?

juliusklehm
Not necessarily, because of the individual tastes of a person. At judging you only get into the more critical evaluations of a flower.

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Is there any way to select a plant before it blooms by growth habit to get good flower? Do the experts just take pot luck when they pick thru seedlings? Do the best growers necessarily mean the best flowers? Do we go thru seedlings and pick out biggest in the bunch?

juliusklehm
Many types of orchids you (grow) can be selected by leaf color, robust bulbs, strong roots, etc., to find the best growers. Sometimes the best growers are not the ones with the best flowers though.

Clare in LA
So how long do I keep my catt. seedlings that haven't flowered before they get ousted?

juliusklehm
First if a seedling has several good growths and not blooming, move it to another location to see if that helps before you get rid of it.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Don't catts take a while to get large enough before blooming? A cattleya doesn't usually bloom unless it has reached sufficient size and has enuff leads or growths to sust

juliusklehm
Right, with catts - and sometimes one's growing conditions are less than ideal and it may take 3-4 years for them to bloom. While we all want awarded flowers, I wouldn't have anything in my greenhouse if I just waited for them (that is flowers that are award quality).

Clare in LA
Leaf color? Do you mean sickly leaves, or shades of green?

juliusklehm
Shades of green usually a nice green that is slightly shaded to yellow. (But again, you have to be careful because that is not true in some crosses and/or some species --jk).

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
In catts, will leaves with purple or red pigmentation mean darker flowers.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
So do you induce them (awarded flowers) somehow?

juliusklehm
With some you can by cooling off in late fall or change in temp.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Julius, I think that a complete GH full of only awarded plants would be great but you would miss out on some of the really interesting things that have no hope of ever getting awarded. That is what makes for great interest.

juliusklehm
I agree, but that's what was said earlier. I also have a hard time to throw one in the trash that I have grown for 5 years. These things become my babies and I want to keep them forever but I can't.

MiamiBert
Awards "made" by AOS and others. I bestow my personal awards on unusual dogs at times.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
jim4: methinks that award quality flowers happen - when you have one, great - I just love almost any orchid plant that chooses to live and bloom for me. :)

juliusklehm
You must if you are to enjoy your orchids.

fancyfarmer
I changed my handle from MLP2 because I was getting mixed up with Magda. I agree that it is hard to shovel prune an orchid.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Doug - hear hear, I'm on a NW balcony and can't get good light in winter.

juliusklehm
Again the best way is to share your orchids. If you have one you like, share a piece with a friend. He may someday repay the favor.

Clare in LA
Julius, I see you're not that ruthless. How about the others? Do you all cull on a regular basis, or just when you've bought one plant too many?

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Unless you are growing previously awarded plants, the only way to have awarded flowers is to take to shows or judging centers.

marilyninOttawa
We see on our meeting show table, some lovely specimens that were purchased at a supermarket. These are nameless Phals that are vigorous and tremendous bloomers. They satisfy the many hobbyists who want lots of colorful, long lasting flowers. I sometimes lend a hand with stem propagation because such orchids should be shared.

MiamiBert
I belong to 'there's always room for one more' school.

fancyfarmer
Well I'm having to dump a lovely yellow Vanda because it had a spike with all deformed flowers. It used to bloom clean but not anymore.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
I kept some phals from several compots until last spring - had to share some to make room. Keep 4 good ones, swap, give away or sold for $5 - hafta, hafta, haftas.

juliusklehm
I have a friend, which I just gave a good phal to that has a slight color break. Nothing awardable but some one who has none can sure enjoy it.

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Most of us probably would not know flower had a problem just happy to have a plant in flower.

juliusklehm
Doug, that's what I try to do and sometimes I don't keep any. The better ones are sold and the others are trashed even though it is hard.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Julius - these were VERY good red phals.

juliusklehm
The one thing I've found is that a lot of people would love to have an orchid in bloom of any kind.

johannabrown
Hi, I'm in Owen Sound and have a very small collection under lights - would like to know if anyone else uses compact fluorescent bulbs?

fancyfarmer
I wouldn't give away a deformed flower. I've given away a lot of plants that were clean and pretty, ones I had plenty of.

juliusklehm
Anyone is looking for good reds.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Julius, why not send them to the local society auction or the AIDS folks? Tax deductible, and goes to good cause.

juliusklehm
I agree deformed flowers should be destroyed if it is bad. Sometimes give a plant a second chance to see if something else caused it to be deformed.

fancyfarmer
The best red Phal I have ever received was the one given an AQ here in Miami earlier this year. Was the last time I judged with Tom Fennel. He went crazy for the cross and they were still babies. Can hardly wait to see them this coming season.

marilyninOttawa
I have favorites which I keep. I like to bloom out a good sample of a grex to learn about the range of variation within the cross. With species such as Masdevallias, I try sib crossing within the population then cull those that are poor seed and/or pollen parents.

andynva
Fancy, what was the cross?

juliusklehm
Local Society auctions are good but you should be careful what you sell there and not take things that are bad.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Julius, I agree - deformed flowers should be tossed!

fancyfarmer
The cross was Brother Fancy x Brother Purple. Have heard of two different names registered for it so don't know which is right yet.

juliusklehm
On deformities you have to be careful because some poisons can cause them.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
I agree - tossed plants from one compot that just wouldn't grow or flower, while some from other compots from same place did well-flowered within six months from compots.

juliusklehm
BF(Brother Fancy) X BP (Brother Purple) is a very good cross with some awards

JR000 (Jerry No. CA)
I almost tossed a Goldenzelle cross because of the muddy color. The following year the color was beautiful. Sometimes it pays to be patient.

juliusklehm
That's what we said earlier, sometimes you need to give a plant some time.

fancyfarmer
Well I know that benlate causes flower deformities but this Vanda has been blooming clean until this year. It is not a frequent bloomer, however, and it should be. Southeast Beauty.

Carol Holdren
So my gh has three benches. If I start clockwise and move 1/2 bench per year, by year 5 - if no flowers - they're right by the door to go out. That should give them sufficient time to bloom or bust. Many times - the conditions at the time - a plant normally blooms has an effect on the blooms. If you are like me, all plants get just about the same conditions with minor variations.

Evlyn
Benlate would have showed up long before now.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Still, one year of bad blooms could be a fluke, I'd wait to toss it.

juliusklehm
I agree.

Clare in LA
Easier said than done, Carol. Some might get a second rotation.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Julius, what would make a flower bloom in the sheath - without coming out as far as usual?

harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Just what IS a BAD bloom. Don't know there was such a critter.

fancyfarmer
Have you ever seen a Vanda spike with every flower deformed (parts missing)? It's pretty gross.

juliusklehm
Never have seen a plant bloom in sheath but some have short spikes. Also it would appear that something else happened to the Vanda if it normally blooms OK.

Evlyn
Temp drop Carol?

platystele2 (Peggy in wisc)
I have a few plants that just sit and don't grow, much less bloom....

juliusklehm
I have had that too with a few over the years but eventually when they get big enough they'll bloom, if you can wait that long.

Clare in LA
So, Julius how do you decide?

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
It could be too cool for some plants?

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Or not enuff lite, what type of plants under fluorescents.

juliusklehm
Its a personal preference. I like what I like even if no one else does --unless my wife likes it.

platystele2 (Peggy in wisc)
I have a mini catt Sl. Precious Katie that hasn't bloomed in 4 years!

Clare in LA
So, Julius, do you have his and her benches?

juliusklehm
Does it get enough light as your area should be good (and bright) for it to bloom.

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
I'm glad you got those priorities right Julius, the wife knows!

juliusklehm
No we don't and I'm beginning to get grandkids' plants all over the place. They are crowding me out.

Evlyn
The decision is made to pitch when you just don't have room for the new guy. Something has to go.

orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Yep, I'm at that place now...

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
The back wall of the gh has to go out 6 more feet!!

Clare in LA
Julius, sounds like a culling problem to me [g]

juliusklehm
That the best way--make room for the new unless it really (good or its something that you really like for some reason).

platystele2 (Peggy in wisc)
Especially if they just sit there and take up bench space...

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Come to think of it, I have a bench in a separate location where I put plants I don't think I want. Then they go back or out from there.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Peggy, you might want to get one of the local society people to look at your setup, or look at theirs if you are having problems with blooming. (I visit regularly) *G*

juliusklehm
Maybe we didn't learn too much but at least we've been able to discuss ideas.

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Plants that don't bloom when you think they should, is it normally a genetic problem or a cultural problem ?

juliusklehm
Cultural most probably.

fancyfarmer
My whole collection was reduced after the benlate crisis as plants slowly died, took some several years to give up the ghost, and slowly I have been acquiring some others that do well. I now have more Catts. than I used to. (Bert, this is MaryLou - I was always getting mixed up with Magda as MLP2 before so changed my handle) So I know more about dumping plants than I would like or ever thought I would. Lost some good ones, including some favorites.

Clare in LA
Julius, you attempted a topic that is troubling for all. Thanks.

platystele2 (Peggy in wisc)
Fortunately I only have a small number that don't do well.....the ones that veg on me go to the society auction!

juliusklehm
I moved from Oklahoma to the Houston are and went without a green house for almost a year. It was bad.

Dig Orchids (Doug in Houston)
Did you have to board plants out, Julius?

juliusklehm :
In my son's back yard for a year.

juliusklehm
Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and hope you all have a Happy New Year and good orchid growing.

Clare in LA
Julius, what does your collection consist of?

AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
Thank you, Julius.

juliusklehm
Phals, Catts, Dens, Oncs, Paphs and a few other genera and Misc.

fancyfarmer
Years ago I had a Vanda hybrid named Hollyhock (don't remember genus more than that) Every time it bloomed which was about once every five years it would get nominated and the not awarded! I finally sold it to a grower but never heard how often it bloomed for him. It was a huge plant and in good condition. I thought just not enough light maybe.

Clare in LA
Did you try vandas, or is Texas too tough on them?

juliusklehm
I had about 125 when I moved here but had a disease go through them quickly and I only have about 30 Now. It happened while I was out of town and when I came back it was too late.

platystele2 (Peggy in wisc)
ouch!

Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Julius, was it that Thai stuff?

juliusklehm
I'm not sure what it was. Most of the plants were from RF Orchid and many were awarded.

fancyfarmer
Julius - if your plants were Vandaceaous could they have gotten too cold? That could precede an occurrence of diseases.

juliusklehm
I've had fun and will see all of you later. I have a grandson dying to get on the internet. Bye.

jim4eq (Happy Ho-Hos from Miami)
Nite Julius, twas fun.

Clare in LA
Thanks, Julius.