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Present were 23:
Dig Orchids
surfqueen1 - new
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Josh319 (Under about 14 inches of snow in Iowa...)
Ellen,Smithtown,New York
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
MiamiBert
cattleya1 (Ursula in disguise)
AORCHID (art in S.C.)
Fleur (Tasmania)
marylois (in northwest Lousiana)
Jane DePadro (In S Fla.)
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
paphiodepaphio (Jason in Brooklyn)
marilyninOttawa
soobie me (Sue in NC)
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
peterlin (in Texas)
kbbarrett (in N Calif)
jagso (Bombay India)
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Hi folks.I didn't have time to prepare a 'handout' for tonight, so I thought I'd just photograph some things currently in bloom. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take the photos today, as a water pump went out among many other emergencies, but we can use some I took about two weeks ago. Anyway, I welcome comments and questions on them.
I'll start with a cross we made a few years ago, Paph. Addicted Philip,
Terrible name for a nice hybrid (philippinense x adductum)! These are especially nice because they bloom on a fairly small plant. The red dorsal comes from an unusually colored clone of adductum.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Good grief - didn't realize ANYTHING could overcome philippinense to that degree.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
I always chuckle when people are surprised at adductum hybrids, expecting them to be terrible. It is a wonderful parent.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Tom Kalina [owner of Fox Valley Orchids -KB] would agree with you, Bob.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Of course, the philippinense added petal length, made the dorsal more upright, and increased flower count, these will carry 5 easily. We purposely used a more compact philippinense to keep the plant size down.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I think that using plants that have good compactness is very important because many of us simply do not have room for ''big'' plants
Fleur (Tasmania)
Bob, how old is the plant.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Fleur, they were deflasked 3 or 4 years ago.
Evlyn
How large is your greenhouse Bob? [We are a small operation with about 6000 square feet. We are facing the usual space problems with a need to grow substantially in the next few years...RCW]
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
I find that roebelinii and philippenense are not every year bloomers--in fact can really be difficult.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Jane, some clones of philippinense tend to require quite high light to flower. [Others require substantially less light. At least in Paphs., always think clonally. If the clone you have will not perform under your conditions, and you cannot or will not adapt to it, get rid of it and get another that hopefully will...RCW]
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Thanks Bob--I've been keeping mine high.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
This is Paph Predacious (adductum x glanduliferum), but made with Paph wilhelminae instead of glanduliferum picture. It's a tiny seedling and only has one flower and a bud we'll nip off, but I expect 3 and 4 flowers when they grow up.
JanetteH (In the foothills of NC )
Did the wilhelmanie darken the color somewhat?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
It sure did, Janette.
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Does this require lots of light--is it warm or cool?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
These hybrids are grown under 70% shade, and we let them get down to 62 in the winter. They grow a lot faster warmer, but do not flower with the color intensity.
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Wow--62? Mine get down to lo 50's--perhaps that's the trouble.
[There are two pieces of information commonly given in the "instant culture" sheets and quotes that I think should just be banished. One is about "cool" growing Paphs. While there are many Paphs that are exposed to very cool conditions in their habitat, we have found most do not require extended periods of cold to grow or flower. There are a few exceptions, but it appears that it is more likely that these Paphs are adapted to tolerate cold periods, but most don't require them. We maintain temps
for the adults in the 60's except for a brief period, maybe 4-5 weeks in the fall when I'll let them drop into the mid to high 50's at night. Lower temperatures encourage all sorts of bacterial and fungal problems. If you are in a position where you have to let them be cooler for extended periods, most will certainly tolerate it, but be careful not to overwater or fertilize. Paph seedlings love to be warm, I would keep seedlings at 80 tear round if I could afford to in our climate. The second is the constant admonition to keep Paphs evenly moist, do not let dry out. This is too fine a line for most of us to walk without the use of lots of fungicides. It is better
to err slightly to the dry side, in my opinion. These plants are not fragile, they generally have fairly succulent roots and leaves and won't keel over if they get a little dry for a day now and then. This is especially true for the brachys. I am not talking about bone dry for days, but the little ditty about "if you're not sure if you should water a Paph you should have yesterday" is not good advice. If you want a good plant, grow good roots first, and the plant will follow...RCW]
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Bob, Do the other multifloras require high light?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Other fairly high light multis are roth, glanduliferum, wilhelminae, others we pretty much consider medium, but I must stress that we grow them all under the same shade arrangement, sort of a compromise, and we flower them all regularly. We've got a bunch of Paph. Billy Cardalino's blooming from one of our crosses, (Susan Booth x philippinense)
cattleya1 (Ursula in disguise)
I grow philippinense quite well in catt conditions, blooms every year.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
What about light for kolopakingii? I bought a seedling only to discover they have to be HUGE to bloom. Mine is now about 14 across both leaves and 1 growth.
[It probably has a ways to go yet, but should bloom after it gets a pretty good sized start. As with all the multiflorals, it can be a while for the first bloom, but after that they will mature growths pretty quickly and bloom regularly...RCS]
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Paph. kolopakingii does pretty well for us under 70% shade. We've got six blooming now, one with 3 spikes (30 flowers).
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Thanks, Bob. I have a young kolopakingii x laevegatum. Been giving it quite a lot of light.
marilyninOttawa
If I may ask a question about Paph Transvaal? I have a plant as yet unflowered but it has recently begun to grow a bit faster. It keeps getting wider and wider and now there is a new growth just showing. Do you suggest warmer or colder or brighter or more shaded? I grow it under two 40 watt wide spectrum tubes (about 1000 ft candles) at 22C day/16C night.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Marilyn, for Transvaal I'd keep fairly warm and in the center of the two tubes, with the leaves just about touching the bulbs. It would like four tubes better.
marilyninOttawa
It is very close to but not touching the tubes. I can move it to the adjacent bank of eight tubes. I will try this and see what happens. Thanks.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Paph. Billy Cardalino (Susan Booth x philippinense).
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Amazing!
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
At any rate, the Billy Cardalino was made with a very long petaled philippinense var roebelinii, as you might expect from the first photo. Here's another one from the same batch, and as you can see the two petal carriages do segregate out.
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Does Susan Booth have any roth in it? [Yes, Paph. rothschildianum is one parent of Paph. Susan Booth, the other being either Paph. glanduliferum (praestans) or Paph. wilhelminae (gardneri)...RCW]
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Here are some parvis in flower: this
micranthum. That one's currently in bloom.
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
Stunning--I have a pot w/2 growths coming--only hope they are half that good!
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
ohhhhhhh, parvis! You know how to get to me!
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Is it a true alba?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
It's not an alba (Shere Kahn) at all, it has the normal red veining, but for some reason the red blushing is completely absent. It is quite striking I've never seen another just like it.
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Everything so far has been 'very striking'!
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Back to plants currently in bloom, my favorite two micranthum hybrids, which I encourage everyone to find and grow...Paph. Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Is that easier to grow and flower than the two species?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Magic Lantern is an easy grower, and very reliable bloomer. I really recommend it instead of the species.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Thanks. I have both species but can hardly keep them alive let alone bloom them. I have had delenatii for years!
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
My other favorite is Paph. Memoria Connie Truax (chamberlainianum x micranthum). The Connie Truax's will give you four flowers on an inflorescence, but only three open at once. Their only bad habit is they are slow growers initially, but will bloom every year after maturity.
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
I have two Magic Lanterns--still waiting.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Is it readily available in other parts of the world?
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Clonal name 'dollie' *teehee*
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Good thinking, Lois *G*
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
What do you recommend on culture for Magic Lantern?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Really pretty standard Paph culture for the Magic Lantern, but I'd stress never overpot, always keep the pot tight, but we do that for all Paphs.
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
Thanks, Bob!
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
100% repotting every year?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
John, that certainly is the best way. We don't always achieve it though.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Neither do I even though I know that is best!!
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
I've forgotten your basic paph mix, Bob -
[RCW] Adults:
12 parts medium bark
3 parts fine bark
3 parts sponge rock (#4)
1 part chopped NZ Sphagnum Moss
note: this is the base, All components are kept at the potting bench and the mix may be varied from the base on a plant by plant basis depending on pot size, root condition, species or grex.
Seedlings:
16 parts fine bark
2 parts extra coarse horticultural perlite
3 parts chopped NZ Sphagnum Moss
Jane5536 (Huntington L.I. N.Y.)
A course or fine mix, Bob?
Fleur (Tasmania)
I used to grow mine in bark and lost a lot of them, Found they loved Sphagnum Moss though. Now they have lovely roots.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
One of my favorite Paph. armeniacum hybrids is Wossner Bellarmi (armeniacum x bellatulum). This one has been open quite a while (the flowers can last 3 months easily) and is losing some shape, but that flower is about 5 1/2 inches across.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Is it a yellow/green in real life or yellow?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Wow!! bellatulum sure reduced the lip, didn't it?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
It's yellow, the light played tricks with the camera.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Easily done with yellow/green colors.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
The yellow intensity seems to be increased when it is made with armeniacum as the capsule parent, as this was, but the size is a real suprise. It is several centimeters larger than either parent, and the entire grex has been that way.
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton, FL)
I like the contrasting colors.
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Ever thought of selling 5 to 20 plant compots? [We are considering compot sales, yes]
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
...I like 5-20 plant flasks as well...just so they are a GOOD size when I buy 'em.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
The apple green are wonderful...one more thing that would rip me off my
resolve.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
I'm not real big on green, but am a real sucker for a yellow Paph. You need Tommie Hanes 'Althea', one of the ultimate green Paphs.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
One last parvi/brachy hybrid now blooming, Paph. Earl Koldyke (emersonii x concolor).
Fleur (Tasmania)
Well call me fickle but I thought I was in love until I saw that last picture. I WANT ONE....
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
That's interesting, Fleur, I guess that's the beauty of these, while I like it, that's less to my liking than the previous ones.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
We would have to fight off the Japanese for that one! *LOL*
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
As Milton Warne used to say, ''Never question another person's sense of aesthetics''. *G*
kbbarrett
Bob, in the case of a paph like the Norito Hasegawa, where the color will vary, do you have any idea what color is the more desirable for the cross? It seems I'm buying the plant I like then getting shut out of judging because its not the accepted version.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kathy - that just goes to show you that judges don't know everything!!! Like it or not!!! LOL
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Parvis just about have to be perfect these days, Kathy -
Fleur (Tasmania)
Kathy, they refuse to judge it because of colour!!!!!!! I would have thought a diference in colour was what hybrids was all about.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Kathy, to me they are all acceptable as long as the color is clear, and I think it is wrong for them to be judged otherwise.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Agreed.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I agree, Bob. That is the way we get many different things that increase the interest in orchids.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Time to change gears, this is Paph. Graham Robertson (sukhakulii x henryanum)
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Now THATS a Paph!
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
I'd like to see that one crossed to a phillipense type.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Strange, Susan, that one does nothing for me at all.
Dig Orchids (Doug visiting Hawaii)
That last paph looks much like my P. Dragon Sword. I like that one too, spots!
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Paph. sukhakulii is one of the most dominant species around in making a hybrid, and it is developing that henryanum is also, so the outcome was interesting
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Not strange at all, Fleur. Think how boring it would be if we all liked the same things.
cattleya1 (Ursula in disguise)
John, judges are people. Some like yellow, some like red. I love the yellow on white contrast - judge or not, just for myself. The shape of those segments is another matter - given the parentage.
kbbarrett
Thanks, I had a Paph delenatii that had just a tinge of red flare on the petal tips, I thought it was cute when I bought it, but the judges passed on it. Now I know why!
Fleur (Tasmania)
True, Earl, if it wasn't for individual taste growing orchids would be very 'ho hum'
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Another sukhakulii cross blooming on very small plants now is Paph. Jeff LaPoint (sukhakulii x Red Glory). Again pretty tremendous color segregation in the cross.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Fleur : Ah variety! Different strokes.... (Am I the only one who finds micranthum too reminiscent of, um, er, That organ which is a rams' pride?)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Susan - I think most of us thought of it at least one time or another *G*
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
*LOL* That was my thought about ALL paphs, then one day I noticed all my living pictures are paphs...so had to change my mind.
AORCHID (art,simpsonville sc)
You're getting closer to what I like. I have a infra red x red glory.
soobie me (Sue in NC)
I have to go too, will all your pretty pictures be somewhere where we can look at them later?
Fleur (Tasmania)
Easy to see the sukhakulii in those crosses.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
These and about 1400 others are always available at my website.
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
Those vinicolor clones are very striking!
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Yes, Bob - Like the flame as well as the darker one! Even the coloratum on left! Good shape, I think.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
There's an area on our site I'd like to point out, that I get the most comments from but people seem to have a hard time finding. I'll show an example first, it will take a minute to load. We have several hundred primary Paph hybrids with the parent species in this format, will be adding a few hundred more soon. They are in the 'Paph Species Files', under the individual species, listed by hybrid name at the file bottom. It's an interesting way to look at how things combine.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Yeah. I'd best not grow some of the Parvis. I'd be so busy sewing them little cod-pieces
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
But look at the fun you would have, Susan LOL
UncleEarl (Earl in Vacaville, CA)
ROTFLMAO
kbbarrett
So Lois, as a judge are you expected to know all the variations of a cross, such as in the Suk cross just shown?
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
A judge is expected to know the dominant characteristics of parents so as to judge whether or not the resulting bloom is better than both parents...that's the criteria.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Bob - do you put a representative picture of the hybrid or the first to bloom?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Start out with the first to bloom, then eventually just several examples, especially if there's variation.
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Got to wrap up soon, so for any Phrag people left I'll show one currently
in bloom, Phrag. Inca Embers (Andean Fire x longifolium).
kbbarrett
Wonderful, Bob. What's the size on that flower?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Kathy, they vary from 4 to 6 inches natural spread, depending on petal carriage.
cattleya1 (Ursula in disguise)
Bob, the Phrag. Inca Embers shape trades off against the bright red. Might it not be advisable to go back to besseae between crosses to other less colorful species to conserve the red?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
Ursula, the color and shape, as might be expected from a cross like this, varies tremendously. This clone is not particularly strong in either, but some have been spectacular. However, all have been large. Further breeding is really a clonal thing, in my opinion. This becomes especially true the more complex the hybrid becomes. I don't think there is enough emphasis on this, not all clones are equal.
marylois (Topic in session: Bob Wellenstein of Candor )
Bob, are you going the the WOC in Vancouver...or the Santa Barbara International?
RCW-upstateNY (Bob in Candor)
No time for either at this point. Bye all.
kbbarrett
Bye Bob! Thanks for everything! Like your time!
Fleur (Tasmania)
Good night Bob and again, thanks for a good chat.
[Addendum: Late question]
hi
we were out of town last last to give a talk and will not be able to make the 3 am chat line. please ask if anyone can explain the apparent sterility in 2nd generation parvisepalum hybrids. we're enjoying what we've read. thanks tam
[We have been getting reasonable (not outstanding) yields in second generation crosses using parents that are with in the parvis, ie Magic Lantern or Norito Hasegawa. Yields when using second generation parents that have been crossed to other sections have been low (eg when using Wossner Bellarmi) and spotty. This isn't all that unusual, I don't think, in Paphiopedilum. I think the parvis are also still too 'new' for many third generation hybrids to have evolved, but given time clones of second and third generation parvis will be identified that will be better parents and breed well. Those same two themes seem to keep coming up, don't they? The importance of being aware of clonal variation and patience!...RCW]
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