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Present were : (But Who's On showed 32 at one point!)
Carol Holdren (Boca Raton FL)
Clare in LA
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
johng in garland (Garland TX)
zeynep3 (Wilmington NC)
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
doneng (Don, Boca Raton FL)
disa4 (Jan in central coast of CA)
marylois (northwest LA)
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Jade from G R. (Grand Rapids MI)
sylviajean3 (Boca Raton FL)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
paphiodepaphio (Jason - Brooklyn NY)
yoshiko2 (in Ann Arbor, MI)
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
framer1 (Mary Lou)
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
The cross, Miltonia Earl Dunn = Milt. Goodale Moir 'Golden Wonder' X Milt.
Minas Gerais, was made by the Perriera's of Kaneohe, Oahu, Hawaii, well
known for their crosses in the Oncidium and Vanda alliances, and registered
in 1977. I had purchased an unnamed seedling just starting to open from
Pat Kawamoto and decided to enter it in the Kunia Show later that month.
The name came about when, at the Kunia Orchid Show, Susan was present for
the judging (though she wasn't an AOS judge herself) and approached me after
the flower was given an HCC and asked if I would mind if she named it for
me?
Obviously, I said yes! Miltonia
Earl Dunn 'Kathie', HCC/AOS, named for my wife at the time.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
That is a beautiful flower, Earl.
Clare in LA
Earl, what's the size on that?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
This is the pod parent, M.
Goodale Moir 'Golden Wonder, which has been used in a number of crosses
(which will be listed in the Archive page when it's posted). Natural spread
was 5.8cm (courtesy of Lois, thank you!).
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Nice and 'tigery'!
MiamiBert
Earl, that doesn't look nearly as golden as my Golden Wonder???
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
The slide is *quite* old, Bert, and faded.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
The other parent was M.
Minas Gerais though not this clone. Susan said she used a very dark
form of the Minas to get something which approximated this.
She was quite surprised (tho pleasantly) that so many of the seedling bloomed yellow. Of the clones of M. Earl Dunn I've seen, all but one have been yellow, tho Milton Warne said he bloomed a nice dark one, and someone on OrchidSafari [NativeOrchid] mentioned some time back that they had a dark one as well.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Getting fairly close to the legendary ''black orchid'' there.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Yeah, Susan, it was very dark in real life. The plant belongs to Ben Hu
of Hilo, if any of you have had the pleasure of meeting him. I also managed
to get a compot of the seedlings from Susan, and flowered three very nice
ones out of it. 'Lemon
Mist', ,a 'Lorita',
and 'Steven' (which I couldn't get a decent scan of.) On a good screen and
with a good projector, they still have a fair amount of zip. But they were
used for a number of years in an Orchidology class I taught at U Hawaii,
Hilo.
marylois
Wow, wish the clear yellow had the form of 'Lorita'!
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Yeah, it would have been another award plant, had that been the case!
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Shortly after the plant was named, someone brought this
one to a Windward OS meeting. The flower is quite large, about half
again as large as 'Kathie', but doesn't have a lot of substance.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Earl, are you growing mostly cool growing Milt?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Actually, zeynep, I don't grow anything at the moment. I left them all back
in Hawaii. And BTW, these are warm-growers.
marylois
Really holding itself up - must have had decent substance at that.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
That is a pretty one, Earl, even without substance.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
It had ''decent'' substance, but was a tad floppy in real life.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Earl, is the clone 'Kathy' still in existence?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
I honestly don't know, John. My son said he thinks he saw it bloom at his
mother's place (where I planted out a piece), and I gave several pieces
away to friends in Hawaii, who might still have it.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
Would be terrible to lose your namesake, Earl.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I sure hope that it is Earl. It would be a shame to lose that beautiful
flower. Too many good plants are lost after they are awarded.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Indeed it would - I used to have a clone [of] Milt. Earl Dunn, but no longer
- perhaps someone will see this archive and see that you get a piece. I
hope so!
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Well, if anyone visits Hawaii and sees Wilbur Chang or Ling Nakachi, they
might ask. I'm pretty sure I gave each of them a piece.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
So far, 'Lorita' is my favorite.
marylois
You have a good eye, Susan.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Lorita is quite a nice flower, but a bit on the small side. It makes up
for it by being a rank grower, with perhaps 6+ growths in a 4'' pot. It
was still alive and doing well last year when I talked to the friend I gave
it to (and whose wife is the 'Lorita').
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Robert is again saying he would like to go back to Hawaii - I'll check with
Wilbur if I make it!...BTW, Marilyn sent this, Earl: "Why is it that
when an interesting topic is scheduled I have an Orchid Society executive
meeting? I regret that I cannot take part tonight: Miltonias are some of
my favorite orchids!" [Several others were absent as well; it happens!
Am writing a page for the Archives (what should have been the pre-discussion
handout) which will expand on the talk.]
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Then I visited Ralph Kami in Hilo when he had several of the Earl Dunn's
blooming.
photo, and
photo.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Sure is variable! One I had was kinda 'mustardy'.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Earl, second picture has nice color.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Yeah, zeynep, it was that color in real life, too. But the petals were a
little droopy on it.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Earl, Which species are in the background....M. vexillaria and ?????
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Milt Minas Gerais (Anne Warne x candida). Anne Warne is spectabilis x ?.
Milt Goodale Moir (flavescens x clowesii) So not a real surprise that yellowdominates.
Though Susan was hoping to get the ''yellow enhancing purple/red'' effect,
similar to some Cattleya breeding.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Anne Warne = Bluntii x spectabilis
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Bluntii is also a hybrid, tho, right?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Bluntii = spectabilis X clowesii
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Thanks, John. Wildcatt?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
No Earl, I have Sanders right here beside me!! Sanders is a great deal of
fun to browse through. Too bad the first volume is no longer available
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Yes, Milt. Bluntii is hybrid of spectabilis and clowesii (both warm growers)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Earl - does this hybrid grow outside here in So Cal? I think not as our
winters probably are too cold.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
It's a warm grower, John, so probably not. There are some crosses with brassias,
however, which might. I made 3 or 4 and gave them away in Hawaii. Jim McCully
had some, I know.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Do you have any pictures of the crosses that you made with brassia?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
I never got to see them flower, zey.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Sparky, the warm growing Milts should do well for you. Basically like a
Catt.
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
I've recently gotten my first Miltonia. I'm hoping its happy with Cattleya
temps. It's candida, too young to bloom quite yet.
jim4eq (columnias of tolumnias in Miamia)
candida grows in Miami ;-)
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Milt. candida is a cool grower.
jim4eq (columnias of tolumnias in Miamia)
Don't tell mine, Lois!!
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Jim are you growing them in air-conditioned greenhouse?
prankster d (Susan from NE Oregon)
Lois, That's good to know! I'll find a place near the Odonts! Good thing
I didn't wait till summer to learn that!
yoshiko2 (in Ann Arbor, MI)
I really like Miltonia and the best plants I ever purchased came from Ivan
Komoda in Hawaii. (You've probably covered this already, but just thought
I'd get a plug in for Ivan's terrific plants.)
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Don't think I ever met Mr. Komoda. Where is he located? Warm or cool Milts?
yoshiko2 (in Ann Arbor, MI)
Possibly he has both types. The plants I received were large, green and
lush. One of them proceeded to bloom soon after I received it and all have
buds at this time. (I bought 5).
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Were yours the pansy type, or the warm growers? The Miltoniopsis are the
pansy, cool growers. Miltonia (true) are the warm growers; like Miltonia
Earl Dunn.
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Komoda sells the warm tolerant Miltoniopsis, pansy type. He's on Oahu, I
think. Komoda's address says only Makawao, Hawaii. How do you now which
Island, Earl? Must drive you nuts. [I don't know, Kathy!? Just one of those
things which sticks in your mind, I guess. *G*]
yoshiko2 (in Ann Arbor, MI)
The ones I purchased are the pansy type.
jim4eq (columnias of tolumnias in Miamia)
He's breeding for warmth tolerance in Miltoniopsis, as well as Masdevallia.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
I have a spectabilis var. moreliana that blooms like crazy during the summer
months.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
spectabilis is one that deserves its name!
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Actually, many of the Miltoniopsis grew well in Hilo, which is pretty much
''warm''.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
Keeping the Miltonias and the Miltoniopis straight is somewhat of a challenge.
I know the miltoniopsis are supposed to have the pansy flowers, but so many
of them are labeled as miltonias.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Makawao is on Maui, Kathy. Miltoniopsis is a fairly new name, Janette, and
many growers don't want to change their tags; nor do I blame them. It's
up to those ... never mind! *G*
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
For registration purposes, are there two different names?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Yep! [Not sure if I'm correct here. Lois?? Help!]
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
What makes up the difference?
Clare in LA
I still get confused as to how warm is warm, or should I say how cool can
warm be. So, how cool can a warm grower go and how warm can a cool grower
go?
[Comment: The figures given for Warm Intermediate, Cool refer to the night temperatures; day temps should be approximately 10 degrees F. higher. Though many orchids can take a much wider range. ED]
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Depends on some other things, Clare; air movement, genetic variability,
amount of light,...
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
We seem to be able to grow both here, Clare, in an intermediate gh. Low=55,
high=85
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
High is more like 70, Janette. For night temp, anyway.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
You mean the gh would have to not go below 70 at night?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Under most conditions, yes.
Clare in LA
Janette, me too but the pansy ones (cool) rarely pan out for me. So I must
be a warmer intermediate than you. I know I am as I do get short summer
periods hitting into the high 90s.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
Our temps would easily get over 100, Clare, but we use a wet wall to keep
the temp down.
Clare in LA
That's sure what it sounds like. Appears we'll be living with them.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
It's those ''high 90s'' which are the decider, Clare.
Clare in LA
Yeah, it always comes down to that number whether high or low that just
pushes the envelope.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Art, how's the air movement. Seems to be sorta critical with the pansy's.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Earl, are you saying that Miltonias need good air movement?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Yep.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Spectabilis alliance warm-growing Brazilian milt species and their breeding
characteristics are: flavescens and festiva (poor shape); anceps and spectabilis
(short inf/flwr crowding); spectabilis (good lip and color).
AORCHID (art, simpsonville sc)
I have ceiling fan in room does pretty good job. How much temp variation
do I need to get to bloom, might be a problem.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Other warm growers are in Clowesii alliance, consisting of clowesii, cuneata,
regnellii, russeliana, and schroederiana.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Marylois, can you explain Clowesii alliance?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
''....how much temp variation do I need?..'' Depends, but good evening movement
seems to be the norm in nature for these types. Think that's why they (some)
do well in HIlo.
[All orchids like/require a10 degree temperature drop at night...warm-growing can "push envelope" from time to time up to 100 degrees with adequate ventilation...mlg]
yoshiko2 (in Ann Arbor, MI)
I have a Milt. vexallaria cross which was damaged when the heating in my
office went berserk. The poor thing spent the weekend at 90+ degrees. It
dropped all its leaves at first. I've been trying to revive it. It now has
1 set of wrinkly leaves. It's been that way for about 4 months now. Do you
think it will ever come back to normal? [With ventilation, would have made
it...mlg]
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
''...At 90+ degrees.'' *Ouch* Maybe; depends... Again, though, good air
movement has worked some wonders.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Pabst and Dung divided Brazilian miltonias into two groups: Spectabilis
and Clowesii. For one thing, the Clowesii group is tidier in growth habit.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
For one thing, "the Clowesii group is tidier in growth habit..'' So
that's where the Earl Dunn gets that! All of the ones I saw were real compact
plants. 'Lorita' was real nice in that respect.
zeynep3 (Zeynep at Wilmington, NC)
Marylois, taxonomically there has to be more difference between the Spectabilis
and Clowesii. Do the flowers have any significant difference?
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Dear heart, for that answer you must ask Pabst and Dung. *S* Hawkes lists
them all as Intermediate/Hot. Perhaps growth habit and clowesii in a bit
cooler situation. I'll check Cribb.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
The Earl Dunn's seemed to tolerate 'intermediate' in Mountainview, on Big
Isle.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
''..more difference between the Spectabilis and Clowesii..'' A pretty fair
amount, IMO.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Here we go -
"M. spectabilis alliance distinguished by compressed ancipitous peduncle and bracts which are as long as the ovary. M. clowesii alliance with terete peduncle and bracts much shorter than ovary. Ergo, difference in growth habit. Foregoing per 'The Manual of Cultivated Orchid Species' Helmut Bechtel, Phillip Cribb, and Edmund Launert."
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Earl, I was just paging back through the chat. Where do all the Milt species
you mention come from? clowesii, flavescens, etc.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Brazil and surrounds.
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Sealevel?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Lower elevations, anyway.
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
What I'm trying to figure out is what my spectabilis var moreliana wants.
It just sits there, and I don't know if it wants to be wetter, drier, sunnier
etc. I suppose I'm ignoring it right now. It sits in the back of a shelf,
watered once a week thoroughly. ["back of shelf" - ventilation?...][poor!
Good point! --KB]
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
How's the drainage, Kathy. Needs really good drainage, K. Feel like trying
slab culture? *g*
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Its in fine bark, roots are sparse. The thing had no roots when I got it
home from an auction. Are you serious? I'd love to slab it. Do you think
it would work?
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
If you're willin' t' do it (with a smaller piece, even), it might coulda
make it, yeah...
Lanceps (Thamina from So. Calif.)
Kathy, if in doubt, increase light. Don't keep it wet, keep good humidity.
I have a clone of that also, Kathy, mine was purchased healthy last summer
and is happy so far, on my patio. We'll see if it blooms.
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
They work well in a basket, too. Doesn't make their untidy growth habit
look quite as untidy. If it doesn't work, Kathy, and the poor thing succumbs,
let me know. We have about 4 or 5 pots of it.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Kathy - for Brazilian Miltonias - I think basket is much better than slab.
[Kathy, I think I would vote with lois here. Hawaii *is* different, and
that's where the comment came from. But if you're willing to try, it might
work.]
disa4 (Jan in central coast of CA)
Perhaps I can offer some idea. My morelia did not respond well, until I
put it in a basket, hung it just under the edge of the shelving. It got
more light and movement. Seemed to like it. AIR.
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Sounds like the vote is for baskets, OK Baskets it is! I love baskets too!
What would you use as medium? Medium bark?
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
Bark would work well. They have pretty fine roots so you would want something
that would keep them fairly moist. We have ours under misters in the summer
and the medium bark works well.
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Try charcoal, on another piece, K.
disa4 (Jan in central coast of CA)
Kathy mine seemed to want to drain well, but retain moisture. So I used
medium with small bark too.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Yes - I'd use my usual charcoal mix...I'm outta the bark business.
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
Thanks muchly, Earl - much went into preparing the pix and program. Thank
you!
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
And so concludes another OS. *G* Thanks, all; and g'day, fleur,(whom I just
now realized didn't make it..). Actually, I winged it, Lois!
kbbarrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Earl its the old Prof in you coming out!
[If you only know! *BG*]
jim4eq (columnias of tolumnias in Miamia)
ya Dunn well earl. (sorry)
UncleEarl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
''..ya Dunn well earl. (sorry) ..'' ROTFLLMAO!!! *POOF*
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
I think Earl thought that was funny, Jim. :-)
marylois (Topic: Anatomy of a Miltonia with Earl Dunn)
'Twas. *G* I'm leaving too. Nite, all. Good evening for OS.
jim4eq (columnias of tolumnias in Miamia)
I'm off as well. Course that's kind of obvious ain't it?
JanetteH (beautiful day in the foothills of NC)
In more ways than one, Jim
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