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1. Pre-chat Repotting Techiques Questionnaire
2. Synopsis
Helen's reponse:
1. What kind of growing medium do you use? If you have several, describe each and the genera grown.
I use a mix of small bark, small charcoal, and coarse perlite. Have been for several years and PAPHS and PHRAGS love it. Now use it for most plants.
2. What kinds of pots do you grow in?
I grow in plastic, except for Oncidium papilio and the like species and hybrids. The home is too dry for clay, they dry too fast.
3. What is your watering schedule? Your fertilizer schedule?
I water twice a week and fertilize almost every time I water, unless I am toooo busy to mix gallons of the stuff!
4. What are your growing conditions in general?
Lots of bright light, and a lot of sun in spring and summer. Windowsills, all exposures.
5. How do you decide when to repot?
I like to repot once a year. But Catts and like plants every two, when they get disturbed they dont always bloom on schedule. Phrags, sometimes more than as the roots start to grow out the bottom.
Mainly sphagnum, with a few still in bark mix (phals). Much prefer the moss, since I don't need to water as often. Repotted a mature phal this spring that always had droopy leaves, from bark into moss, and now the leaves are always turgid, even when the moss has that crispy feel at the end of the week (see question 3). Paphs are in fine bark mix. Would like to move them into moss...is that ok?
2. What kinds of pots do you grow in?
Again, a mix. Small seedlings in plastic, 2"-4". Mature phals in 5" slotted clay as well as 6" plastic. I like the slotted clay combined with the moss, so more air can get inside. Have not noticed salt or mineral build-up.
3. What is your watering schedule? Your fertilizer schedule?
Watering takes place Saturday morning, my schedule, not the plants! Can't be helped. Try to keep an eye out for needy plants through the week. Fertilize with dyna-grow weekly, weakly, switch to blossom booster in fall.
4. What are your growing conditions in general?
Windowsill and lightstand, western exposure. Terribly low humidity in winter. Drafty/cold single pane windows, plants sit on water trays (egg crate sort) on shelving next to sill.
5. How do you decide when to repot?
Seedlings as they need it, maybe twice a year, or when moss gets green, mature plants as material gets spent. Hopefully once a year.
6. Do you ever just drop-on? If so, what kind of species and why?
No.
7. Do you divide? If so, what kind of species and why? How often?
Mostly phals, so no. One Paph looks overcrowded, but has never put up more than one bloom at a time, and I like a specimen look, so hesitant to do it.
1. What kind of growing medium do you use? If you have several, describe each and the genera grown.
I use a mixture of bark, charcoal and perlite. Equal parts of each. If the species has a higher moisture requirement then I add an equal part of sphagnum moss. The bottom of the pot is crocked with styrofoam peanuts. This is used for all sympodial types. For monopodial types I only use large horticultural charcoal, except for Phals which receive the moisture retentive mix.
2. What kinds of pots do you grow in?
I use slotted clay pots for all sympodial types. For monopodial types I use a slotted teak basket. Yes, Phals are monopodial, yes, I use a basket. The basket is lined with Spanish moss. The basket is hung on a slant so that water drains naturally out of the crown. Phals in bloom, hanging from the ceiling without the spike staked, and the wind fluttering the blooms.....well, I know why Darwin called them Moth Orchids! PS. My granddaughter will watch them to the exclusion of TV. I also grow some orchids on a tree. It is a section of an oak tree and after sterilizing it I mounted clumps of moss with fishing monofilament. The orchids are planted in the clumps.
3. What is your watering schedule? Your fertilizer schedule?
The subtribes of Coelogyninae, Pleurothallidinae, Dendrobiinae receive water every other day, fertilizer once a week. The subtribes of Laeliinae, Sarcanthinae receive water twice a week, fertilizer once a week. The subtribes of Cymbidieae and Zygopetalinae receive water and 1/4 strength fertilizer daily. (Grown outdoors) The tribe of Vandeae receive water and fertilizer daily.
4. What are your growing conditions in general?
I grow in a 12x24 Solarium, much like the Lord and Burnham that Elaine Taylor grows in. Her's is 16x20 and uses horizontal windows. I use the vertical windows. The climate in Houston is subtropical. I use a dry fog to keep the temperature down, and installed a large thermal mass to store heat in the winter. Due to the mild winter, I use the solarium to augment the heat in the house through passive solar heating. The water system is RO. I use a digital light meter and digital humidity meter to monitor microclimates. The shade system is aluminum venetian blinds. On cloudy days they can be opened up or can be raised entirely. On bright days I can control the exposure or percentage of shade by opening and closing the slats.
5. How do you decide when to repot?
This has been the biggest problem. Currently I wait for a plant to stop blooming, start a new lead, and then repot. When a plant is inactive the repotting makes it pout for months. It doesn't die, but it just doesn't do anything else except sit there.
6. Do you ever just drop-on? If so, what kind of species and why?
Yes, I due this as a preferred method of repotting. I only change out the mix when it has badly decomposed. For bark it is easy for me to tell because it will feel slimy, and when pressed between two fingers and sniffed (like a wine cork) will smell moldy. This may change as I get more experience.
7. Do you divide? If so, what kind of species and why? How often?
The best advice I have ever gotten is from an article in the May, 1994 "Bulletin". The article is called "Not by the Book". Do yourself a favor and read it! Before I had read it, I had taken my handbooks and my first book, Brian and Wilma Rittershausens "Growing Orchids", studied all of the pictures and even made notes! Then on my first repotting, with great confidence, I chopped my orchids up into little pieces and replanted. Made sure the oldest parts where to the back edge, etc. I had selected the time carefully. I had thought of everything. They started growing again. Vvvveeeerrrryyyy sssslllloooowwwwllllyyyy. It has taken them a year to recover and it will be years before those catts bloom again. My rule for division, NOW, is only if I can not lift the pot. Vandaceous types are moved up to a bigger basket only. I will never divide a Vanda again.
2. What kinds of pots do you grow in?
Mostly plastic for economy. We do use clay for Dendrobiums because it keeps more of them right side up. Only other reason to use clay is if we want to keep the root zone cool for some reason. We use plastic pots once and toss them, other than a few very large ones that we disinfect thoroughly and use again. Clays are triple soaked: Epsom salts, acid bath, TSP. bath and then sterilized at 250 deg F in an oven before reuse. We don't reuse many clays - cheaper to buy new ones.
3. What is your watering schedule? Your fertilizer schedule?
Watering: when they need it. Fertilizer: every time we water.
4. What are your growing conditions in general?
Tall (16' ridge) aluminum I-beam frame covered with clear corrugated fiberglass. Ducted high velocity (9,000 cfm) fan supplied over cel-dek evaporator (5' X 10'). Greenhouse is closed except for screened 18" X 60" vents the entire length of the ridge. Benches are wood frame covered with 1"X2" welded wire. Water is softened for most applications, using Potassium chloride, because ambient water is 234 PPM calcium carbonate. Sodium is only 9 PPM, so the water is good, but it spots the air when it comes out of the faucet, not to mention any thing it touches.
5. How do you decide when to repot?
When there is absolutely no other alternative. A pot that won't sit up even with a rock in one side is a clue.
6. Do you ever just drop-on? If so, what kind of species and why?
Not sure I understand the term. If this means grow a plant with no medium, we do. The larger Vandaceous plants get, the less medium we use until we use none with blooming size Vandaceous - especially Vanda, Ascocenda and Aerides.
7. Do you divide? If so, what kind of species and why? How often?
Trying to increase a plant inventory by "multiplying by dividing" is self defeating. Little plants only grow; big plants bloom. We might divide something if it got too heavy to lift, but otherwise we just let them grow. You'll never know the full potential of a plant until you see it bloom in a 12" pot in a good year. THAT's what paradise is! We have awards on things like Aer. odorata with several hundred blooms, Encyclia cordigera with 8 fully flowered spikes, Doritis pulcherrima in a 10" pot with clouds of flowers. Beats these poop city little 2-4 flowered Phals I see on the slides. We did Phal. Orchid World with 26 flowers. Even equitant oncidiums will put on a good show if well grown. Trouble is, we're seeing so many seedlings we think that's the norm. We grew Vanda luzonica 13 years before getting an FCC on it. The Lizzie Borden Syndrome is the most damaging disease good orchids must face.
Ed, can you tell us about the Lizzy Borden Syndrome?
The Lizzie Borden Syndrome is a prop I use once in a while in a general culture program. Essentially, it tries to steer people away from trying to increase a collection through the 'multiply by dividing' techniques Lizzie used. An axe with her family. Bottom line: little plants have to grow to survive; only big mature plants can bloom to reproduce.
Does anyone pot with a mixture that is radically different than the standards? i.e., bark, charcoal, peat moss, perlite, sphagnum, and New Zealand Sphagnum (NZS)?
My favorite mix is 2 parts fresh sphagnum moss, 1 part Chopped Polystyrene and a little charcoal. For Masd and Dracs. Not for the Catts though.
Has anyone ever tried coconut husks for potting for quick drainage? I heard about this once and thought that it was a littler weird. Maybe in a tropical climate it might work.
I had a partner one time in a plant production setting. He used Ann Mann's coconut material exclusively and grew well. It never worked for me.
How about Tree Fern Fiber? Anyone used any?
I have used tree fern fiber in the past but not too successfully. Slabs of tree fern work very well for me but when it starts to decompose it is a little hard to get the plants off of it without hurting the roots a lot. It does grow things well if you watch your watering.
I like tree fern. Lasts long time and doesn't rot!!
Tree fern is great, but it is almost impossible to get good stuff - just like osmunda. For awhile, we imported scraps of Hapuu from the islands - the leftovers when they carve those tiki heads, etc. Freight costs finally drove us out of the picture.
I like to put about 20% tree fern in all mixes -- easy to unpot! Straight tree fern is a bear!...anyone found a tree fern source lately?
I use tree fern very little it drains too fast in the home. I like a mix of small bark, small charcoal and course perlite/ Use on all Paphs, Phrags, now using on catts , Phals, catasetums, unless they are a mass. Then I use straight new Zealand.
Andy loves to repot. I usually divide when I do and double or triple my count. I don't pot though, until the plant has walked out of the pot.
I think that the standard potting mixes are best as they have stood the test of time. Fir Bark here is good but not of the quality that we used to get.
I'm leaning more & more to mounted orchids. They seem to do very well for me in my kitchen, and about one quarter of my plants are mounted.
Even use some fine tree fern in my Paph and Phal mixes...All my plants seem to love it, and do better when it is present...and makes a "prettier mix" that settles in around the roots nicely.
We talk about "pot in this, pot in that", but good growing is a balance of medium, environment and technique. No one thing will make one a good grower or a bad one.
I've also been known to let a plant climb out of one pot right into another-- same goes with a plaque of tree fern or cork bark.
I too hate to repot and have been known to place an empty pot filled with new mix next to a full pot so that the plant would grow "right on over to it"
We usually place some sphagnum in most of our mixes when we repot. I feel better about possibly not watering enough if there is some moisture retentive sphagnum in the mix.
What's right for you is a disaster for the guy next door...takes a heap of growing and watching to come up with the right mix or two for yourself...I've finally gotten into variations of Teas Terrestrial and Orchids & Ferns mix...different proportions of each - add some tree fern for some things, add some sphagnum pieces for others...that's why I'm upset about this tree fern shortage! Finally get it licked and no more tree fern fiber.
One member of our Susquehanna Orchid Society uses shredded tires in some pots!
I use fine tree fern for paphs and phrags even some den's-- along with perlite.
The ultimate question. Does the medium really do anything other than just prop up the orchid? My Neofinetia has nothing in the basket. Not even bark. Grows like a champ. Chemical fertilizer has taken the place of the medium breakdown providing nutrients.
I wrote up the shredded tire medium years ago in the Bulletin. Got several letters from Calif and elsewhere reminding me that it is worth your life to stop on a freeway for a piece of tread rubber. We found a tire recapper who would give us all the new stuff we wanted from leftover ends cut when they recap truck tires.
Fleur (Tasmania), what do you pot your catts in?
Yes, we can go out and harvest Tree fern, It grows wild in many of the Southern Forests, and we can collect. Many of out growers also use the dead, dry foliage in their Mix. Catts I grow in open plastic baskets, in a mix of course Bark, pebbles and charcoal, otherwise the roots all die. I have been know to have pots with no mix in them and the plants seemed to do well. I really think that all the mix does sometimes is hold the plant up!
What mix is most often found in situ? Also, has an orchid ever been found growing on a fir tree? I don't know what the most common in situ is, but would imagine it is just humus, or moss. But I am not trying to replicate 'in situ'. A wild orchid has never seen Peter's.
As far as in situ-- I've seen Enc. tampensis on malleuca trees, pine trees, cypress- just about wherever they can germinate!!
I don't try to repro natural methods either, but one must realize the entire medium/pot thing is foreign to an orchid. That's why we must balance the entire growing program if we are to have success.
The answer: wherever they can germinate. There must be a food source and moisture for orchid seed to survive. That is what we must have available for the plant to prosper.
I've seen orchids growing in trees on the mainland, and growing on tree fern in Vanuatu.
Very Good Point! If you change one factor in the formula you must compensate with modification of another factor. The end result must maintain the balance.
Yes, Listen to Mother Nature.
Now we're moving toward empathy with the plants and that's where the good stuff starts. What do you think of the article in AOS Orchids, Growing Orchids in the Mud?
I had avoided that topic earlier. Orchid roots need air, support and moisture in more or less that order. I have been unable to provide all three well in high peat content mixes. The higher the peat content, the more completely the medium dries and the harder it is to wet, for me.
A friend of mine recently was given two orchids by an acquaintance. The surface of the potting medium is potting soil!! the orchids look good, and he says the acquaintance always uses soil, at least as the top layer.
I have only one orchid grown that way. Ludisia discolor. Grown in African Violet soiless mix. Loves it.
Ludisia also likes 3 parts Tea's terrestrial, 2 parts small charcoal, 1 part pro-mix and 1 part small tree fern...that is, the huge one I grew for years in a rounded clay pot with a 30" diameter...the kind and size of pot make the difference of what you can and can't use....as well as your climatic conditions.
Yes, to maintain the balance, if you change the pot type, you MUST compensate....
I have used and still have a couple of orchids potted in Wine corks. All Californians drink wine as we know that the water isn't healthy for you. I have friends saving them for me. They are OK for a few months, but after that they seem to be just a neutral "plant holder". You would have to watch your fertilizer very closely. The residual wine is almost non-existent.
Vandas in wine corks seem to do OK.
Orchids are like kids - they always like sugar. We used a topping made from brewery waste for a while. Boosted growth, but smelled bad and attracted ants. If you want to boost a slow grower a bit, put a tiny amount of sugar in a bloom tube and slip it over an aerial root for no more than 24 hours. Works wonders, but don't overdo it.
The sugar in a root tube sounds very interesting. I really will try it. Yes, I can imagine that you could overdue it easily, but for 24 hours it might help a plant that needs perking up.
How tiny of an amount? White sugar or brown? Mix in water?
A little less than a pinch. Orchids won't know whether it is white or brown. I imagine any of the sugars would work. Just don't leave the tube on more than a day.
On the subject of potting mix, fertilizer is also a part of the equation, if you use fresh sphagnum never put a chemical fertilizer near it. It kills the moss and that is a very sure way to kill your plant. I always (when I remember to fertilize at all) use a 'natural' fertilizer. Sea weed etc.
I've had plants grow and flower in empty pots! They started there as back bulbs, started to root and before I got around to them they bloomed!! I wouldn't know what to do if I had to work on my orchids to make them grow and flower. I'm LAAAAAZY!!
Pres of our club has snail problems, I don't. That's why it's pretty important to repot when you get a new plant along with getting it into YOU'RE type of medium!
Before we leave potting, it might be well to note that pots come in three styles: standard, azalea and bulb pan. A standard is about as deep as it is wide, an azalea 3/4 as deep as wide, and a bulb pan is about 1/2 as deep as wide. Each style has a purpose, and it is well to think about the plant when you select the pot.
Yes, along with repotting is the choice of pots. What is a general rule for deciding on the type of pot (like you mentioned, not clay vs plastic).
Don't you think that the type of pot depends on what you are potting where you live and how you as an individual grow your plants?
Yes. That is for the material the pot is made from. However, what about it's size and depth?
We look at the plant. If the roots are straight to the bottom and then begin to curl, we pot in a standard. If the plant has fan type shallow roots, we go to an azalea or bulb ban. Plants with any sign of burn or scar on the root tips are put into the next deeper pot. You don't just pot everything deep because the medium cost goes way up when you go to the next deeper pot size.
Watch the plant....that should be our theme!
Remember rule #1: Listen to the plant. So many questions are answered when we do. My favorite comparison is to a new granny who will know everything concerning new baby immediately. We can get on the same basis with our plants, but it takes love and understanding. The fact that they can't speak as we do is incidental.
Sure making note of that...sounds most reasonable...not just to save medium, but satisfying the root system!. In the past, I've only used bulb pans when I felt the plant was not drying out quickly enough. And I use all azalea, except for very large plants with large root balls. Guess it about comes out the same...must check the description against the ones I put in bulb pans...may be doing it instinctively.
You're right. Deeper pots and plastic hold more moisture. If you have dry conditions, then you need to maintain the balance by increased moisture retention.
The size of the pot relative to the plant will have more to do with moisture management than will the depth of the pot.
Doritis like deep pots, Dendrobiums like squat, tight pots (as do equitant oncidiums) and Phals love intermediate over potting. No one right answer.
And I've put quite a few specimen types into hardware cloth lined wooden baskets with a medium weight mix, regular watering...so far so good...going on the second year for some.
I thought I was doing a good job by putting all my Phals, in moss and clay pots last year, now I have to change them back to bark and plastic pot, I shall never use clay pots again.
Richard
My potting mix is more or less equal parts of medium tree fern, medium fir bark, large sponge rock and small charcoal. Seems to work very well for my Cattleyas, Encyclias, Oncidium alliance, and Epidendrums. I was growing only in wooden baskets but am beginning to switch over to clay pots and it works equally well in both. Some has been in use for 3 years and does not show signs of breaking down. For my vandaceous things I use chunks of tree fern in wood baskets -- seems to never break down and is easy to use. The plants love it.
Barbara
We Californians all use wine cork for the Vandas, they love, red wine especially.
Lois John, not as good as it once was - and getting hard to get, I hear. Fortunately cork does work almost as well with a sphagnum pad.
John
Why do people use the small charcoal pieces in a mix? Wouldn't perlite be the same? Does the charcoal "sweeten" the mix?
Andy
John. I like to use plaques about one foot square and two inches thick and use it like a picture frame, mounting the plant bottom center then hang them on the wall in flower. Nice effect!!
Barbara
Yes, John, I still use tree slabs for my Equitant Oncidiums.
Ed
For what it is worth, we are using long fiber sphagnum (domestic) for all seedlings and Dendrobiums. Our losses out of flask are very low with the sphagnum medium, but growing requires close observation until the sphagnum stabilizes.
John
I also used wine corks with Vandas and still have a few in it. I never felt that they were especially useful but at least nothing was hurt and Vandas tend to be quite forgiving.
John
It was quite a lot of fun "collecting" the corks - even had friends doing it!
Ed
John, I think charcoal is used as a buffer to counteract impurities in the medium of irrigation water. Trouble is, once charcoal begins to saturate with impurities, it can become locally toxic in its own right and be a
problem. We use it, but we watch it.
Lois
Yes, I have a small compot of Den phalaenopsis from Ed's operation - I was a bit skeptical at first, but it's working just fine! The little plants are thriving! They are watered with everything else; sat them before the cooling pads for maximum air movement as they are in sphagnum and plastic...I grow in clay due to high humidity...but these in the 4" pot size are doing great.
DrJay
Ed, how can you tell? Does the plant start acting like it has salt buildup??
Andy
I'm moving most of my plants to clay too. The high humidity tends to keep stuff in plastic to wet, to long. Plastic is hard to hang too, so the clay stuff is hanging above the plastic stuff and of course the clay drys out too soon.
Evlyn
I am not understanding the use of charcoal in the mix. ie purpose. I thought that minerals stayed on the outside of the charcoal.
Helen
ED, I use the charcoal to aerate the mix more than anything and the plants seem to like the variety in the mix, as opposed to straight bark which I used years ago and was not as successful.
Ed
The edges of newer leaves (not juvenile, but not mature, either) will provide the first indication. Marginal discoloration is often the first indication of salt imbalance in a plant.
Lois
It is prudent to get almost all your collection in either clay or plastic. There are exceptions, of course - phrags, some paphs (esp seedlings), phals -- they need the extra moisture and need the plastic. But, it's much easier to group pots of a kind if you have a "preferred" kind.
Richard
I just managed to buy 150 bags of medium tree fern for our Orchid Society, but it has been very difficult to find lately. The reason I use the mix I mentioned previously is that it allows the tree fern to go five times as far!
John
Interesting. Here we are going in the opposite as we are so dry that the plastic makes it possible to grow things that previously were very difficult.
Hallie
At Kensington's the other day, I got some small tree-fern plaques; they said they weren't going to carry them any more.
Lois
I use practically NO bark...why? The quality got so poor it wouldn't last a year in this climate. I do use what is know locally as Tea's terrestrial (small bark, small charcoal, perlite, Sunshine mix, a few additives) for
true terrestrials, and for phalaenopsis that need to stay moister, and for paphs and phrags for the same reason....everything else is charcoal/horticultural perlite/Sunshine mix -- to which I add varying amounts of tree fern. I also add treefern to my phal and Paph mixes - to loosen it - as Helen says. And I repot annually -- I can actually see salt buildup on charcoal OR bark within a year.
John
Lois, I too have had to group the types of pots so that I could water more efficiently and not overwater some.
Barbara
The Board Members are here. Say your welcome.
(EDITOR'S NOTE - Barbara's Orchid Society Board Members were at her home, and she previewed OrchidSafari to them.)
Lois
Yes, WHERE did you get tree fern?! Just got some small tree fern from OFE, but they had no medium.
HELLO, BOARD MEMBERS - WELCOME TO OrchidSafari!!
Hallie
What color change at leaf edges? (As a sign of mineral buildup) Lighter? Darker? Other-than-green pigment?
Helen
I use only plastic as clay is toooo dry for dry apartments, although it is about 200 % humidity tonite! BUT I use a clay pot inside a china planter for my papilio.
Ed
I'm not sure I understand putting an entire collection in anything: plastic vs clay; one medium vs all others. Plants are individuals and have distinctive requirements. The trick is to balance a collection so it can be
cared for with a reasonable effort, but don't force your Ascocenda to grow like a Masdevallia!
Lois
Arranging pots by pot size is imperative in a greenhouse situation -- would even be helpful in a large operation in home situation (Helen *LOL*). And John pointed out a most important fact! All mixes work. The trick is finding what works in YOUR environment! How fast does it dry out? Makes a difference where you are - where humidity is high or low -- in the home or in the greenhouse - how much air.
We are back to the PROPER BALANCE. It is all intertwined: moisture/air movement/fertilizer/light/medium used.
DrJay
HUH? Mine are arranged by micro-climate...
John
Ed, I agree. You have to pot each one separately and according to its requirements. However each area may have to use much more of one type because of the growing conditions.
Evlyn
Hello Board Members. Welcome to the group. I have all my catts in cypress chips and regrind polystyrene.
Hallie
I received a compot of Paph seedlings in pure sphagnum; must have done well in the dryer climate where they were, but I had two rot before I moved them into small bark; the survivors are fine. I also have some Paph seedlings (larger) that came in some sort of "mud" mix--they really like it, but I don't know exactly what it is. Anyone using these?
Ed
Hi, Hallie. Color of the leaf edge can vary. If edges, tips or both begin to turn very dark, an excess of Nitrogen is suspected. If leaf edges turn orange shades, suspect too much iron or iron that is not chelated. A leaf that is very dark overall may be trying to say it has too much potassium, not enough light or both. Chlorotic areas indicate lack of magnesium and iron or an over abundance of calcium carbonate. The list is very long and I don't know that it is written anywhere in a complete form.
Helen
JOHN yes in NY it is so humid! DONT GET SMART DEN MOM! I arrange my plants according to the light they need! Priorities first! BUT I NEED A GREENHOUSE!
Lois Yes, Ed, your point is well taken - we all seem to try to grow a little bit of everything. Sooner or later, we do have a pot of choice, a mix of choice - but we do make exceptions for the plants that require an exception.
Barbara
I can buy tree slabs by the pound? Do you need them? Let me know.
Richard
Got the tree fern from Tropical Plant Products in Orlando. They advertise in the AOS "Orchids". I use charcoal to help aerate the mix also. As I said earlier, the mix is lasting at least 3-4 years without breaking down (that's as long as I've been using it). Hi, Barbara's group!! Join in the discussion!
Karen
Ed, what do you mean by sphagnum stabilizing?
Hallie Wow! Thanks, Ed. (BTW, my Dor. pulcherrima (the yellow one) is finally growing new leaves and roots!!)
Ed
No argument here. Good growing is much more likely to result from good balance than from any single cause.
Helen
Hallie, I have never heard of that mud mix is it a broken down medium??? Or just a very wet mix????
Hallie
Actually, I haven't mounted anything on tree fern yet. I do have an elkhorn fern growing in a tree-fern basket, though. Most of my mounts are on cork, with one on a small slab of wood that looks like a back of a mouse-trap!
Lois
That too, Dr Jay - I have several sections in my greenhouse....but the plants requiring that section are arranged by pot size...Another advantage -- keeping the small ones (of each microclimate) to the front enables me to water them and not the larger ones -- we're not supposed to let water run from one plant to another, but most folks do to one extent or another -- I try to keep the smaller pots that dry out fastest in the area where there is likely to be overhead runoff....unfortunately, as John pointed out, the hanging plants need water when the bench plants do not because they are getting more air, some are in baskets, etc.
Evlyn
This kind of information is just what every grower needs. I do wish it was written down somewhere!!!!
Hallie
It LOOKS like ordinary potting soil, but is lighter and dries out much faster. I presume it's one of the "mud" type mixes described in Harvey Brenniese (sp?) article recently in Orchids.
Andy
Media for Phals. Any thoughts....The ones I have in Spag. Moss seem to grow like gangbusters, those in seedling bark grow, but not as fast and not by the leaps and bounds the ones in SM do.
Helen
DR JAY YOU are doing so great ...one has to find what ULTIMATELY WORKS BEST FOR THEM REGARDLESS OF THE RULES THEY BREAK!!!!!!!!
DrJay
I didn't know there were any rules...
John
Has anyone tried hydroponics lately? It really sounds great but I understand that there are many problems using it with orchids. I do now remember an old orchid range here in Calif that grew beautiful phals in nothing but small rocks in raised tub-like beds and pumped the fluids in periodically.
Gail
Does anyone use Nutracoat in their mix, I've been using it and it seems to make things grow. I'm bad about fertilizing because my siphonex never seems to work, so when I repot I add the granules on top.
Ed
When long fiber domestic sphagnum comes from the bale, it is very hard to wet - almost waxy. We take 5 gallon pickle buckets and fill them with water to which we add fertilizer and a surfactant. We then put the sphagnum into 5 gal nursery cans - the black pots shrubs come in. We submerge these in the pickle buckets and leave them over night. Next day, we pull the nursery cans and drain, then use the sphagnum without rinsing, but we do water in each thing potted. For several days, we water these plants with surfactant water until the sphagnum will hold a uniform amount of water for a uniform length of time. When the sphagnum stabilizes, we then care for that flat or pot just like any other.
Lois
Right, dr jay. I have but one: unpot and repot as soon as you get something new -- heaven knows what's in that pot -- can tell you horror stories.
Hallie
What do you use as a surfactant? Would dishwashing liquid work, as you've recommended before?
Helen
Only the rules we make for ourselves.
DrJay
Listen to your plants....Let them make the rules....
Hallie
Well? Let's hear the stories!
Karen Hi board members...I agree that each plant should be evaluated separately for growing requirements. I presently have two new Phal. seedlings from the same cross that I potted in small bark, small charcoal and sponge rock. They are side by side...one is growing beautifully and the other has a spongy feel. I am going to repot in sphagnum which I have done in the past to save phals with this condition.
John
Is there still a discussion about NZ sphagnum and bacteria or something like that?
Lois
Exceptions to that one too! e.g., the phal compot from Ed...obviously just repotted, assured by him that this works, I've left it, and so far so good. *s*
Hallie
I don't think it's a terrible danger; there are just some critters (bacteria, fungi) waiting in ANY organic medium, and if you put it into cuts, etc. on your hands it may just like it and set up housekeeping. I keep
thinking I should wear gloves when I dig around in the dirt...but I usually don't.
Ed
You caught me, Hallie. Yes, dishwashing liquid soap (or dishwasher powder) will work as a surfactant. It washes out rapidly, so has to be used repeatedly, but it works very well. We use a fancy surfactant that stays put a little longer, but it really isn't worth the difference in price.
Helen
LOIS thats a GHREAT POINT repot and spray as soon as it walks in the door!
John
Yes, but don't let them "rule" you. Plants are adaptable to many things so they will do what you want them to, within reason of course.
Lois
Four seedling paphs from a large grower...sphagnum in plastic...two of the four had a plastic twisty for roots -- their ONLY roots. With tender care one made it, the other is still dying a slow death.
Ed
John, there is a tendency for sphagnum (the whole family) to cause a contact dermatitis. This will usually be seen first as a redness on the inside of the forearm. Sphagnum fibers inhaled can also cause inflammation in the lungs. This is not to say that sphagnum is good or bad (charcoal dust is a suspected carcinogen) but it should be properly handled and respected as an irritant.
Hallie
You're right, horror stories! So far, my worst problems have been with my H&R plant order--they nearly all needed repotting--almost no medium, just a pot crammed with roots! Big, happy plants--the kind of problem I like to have.
Lois
I second that motion! And I find, for my area, plants purchased from H&R, Oak Hill Gardens, and Florida do best for me...they are already acclimated to my conditions.
Helen
JOHN. I try to bend the plants and push them to my way of growing, those that bend do GREAT the rest go down the garbage chute!
Karen
I agree with you, Phals do grow faster in sphagnum, but watch the roots for rot. I purchased a Phal two years ago from the Orchid Man in upstate New York. This plant is in chunky peat and sponge pieces...this is the best growing and flowering Phal I have and the blooms present themselves beautifully.
Lois
That's why you need to repot - the grower has used a medium and a method that gets a plant to sale size in the shortest length of time. It's a fact of life, a law of economics - accept it and take care of the plant soon as you get it.
Ed
Let me point out one thing about orchids generally. They live and grow for a very long time, compared to other pot plants. We must be careful that our growing reflects this. Plants that mature quickly don't have problems with salt build up. Bedding plants don't need to be moved to the correct pot size. Orchids require a very special line of thought based upon their needs. A final point to keep in mind: orchids are not found in pots of anything in nature.
Helen
NITE JOHN!! Hallie H& R does not need medium to grow in Hawaii, things just grow out there!
Lois
Well, that's the formal wrap up for tonight then. Ed, any chance of you taking on a half hour or so of GREAT orchid books you've read and enjoyed?
Evlyn
Love your philosophy Helen, I am adopting it immediately.
Lois
Gradually getting there myself, Evlyn -- if they start downhill, find 'em a new home, or get rid of them. Most of the downhillers need a far cooler climate than I can ever provide...next, I'll learn not to buy any of 'em in
the first place!
Ed
Only read two and I didn't understand one of them. Problem is, my orchids refuse to read any of them, so they don't know how they should act. Guess I could discuss a couple of things that one might like to have in the library.
Karen
Nite John. Back to 'mud mix'...isn't this Promix and the like? I just received and order to mini Cymbidiums from First Rays Orchids. Ray recommends 1/3 Promix, 1/3 charcoal and 1/3 sponge rock to pot them up with. Does this sound ok to you?
Ed
Nothing wrong with such a mix, but remember the "peat-lite" mixes such as ProMix are notorious salt holders over a lengthy pot life. You must not drop your guard when using these mixes or they will eat your lunch!
DrJay
Sounds good to me....I grow mine in the backyard....terrestrial style.
Lois
Hallie - I've found that Cym Golden Elf and Florida Flamingo (the first an ensifolium hybrid, the second sinese, require an annual repotting to be happy - likely because of the salts Ed warns about.
Karen
Would you say about a year in such a mix is safe? What about flushing with H2O frequently?
Lois
Karen, you have FINE water in NYC -- bet a monthly flushing would be sufficient.
Ed
One thing about sphagnum, it tends to pack with normal watering. Periodically, high sphagnum content mixes must be fluffed to restore air space. We do this with a stiff wire - just push it into the medium and open
it up or tap the plant out of the pot and loosen the mix by hand.
KB
Ed, if this isn't too off subject... I've been having a real hard time with Onc. papilio. I've killed 2 of them so far. No. Correct that. I've killed all the new p/bulbs on my plants (2 per plant) So as far as I know all the
potential for new growth has been killed off. (Each bulb has 2 nodes/shoots/stems/whatever you call them per bulb to start the next new growth and I've managed to kill them all) Is there hope for the next
previous bulb to grow, or should I give up entirely?
Lois
hehehehe - another use for a wire hair pick!
Ed
Too many variables. Orchids are notoriously poor at watching the calendar. That's why we keep a close eye on the plants and flush or repot as required. Clear water flushes are beneficial and we use water softened with potassium chloride for this. Tap water flushes are better than none, but again it depends on so many variables. Perhaps one day we will talk about the root as a permeable membrane. That's what we are dealing with.
DrJay
Yes, I would like to talk about that. I understand osmosis, so when it is wet the water moves, but how do they get it from the air? Someday this would make great discussion.
Ed
Kathy, I'm not the person to help you. I've had so many of that group over the years and have never grown one well. Oscar Kirch in Hawaii grew them outside with no care but I know of no one else who ever did.
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