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Eleven members were present for Wednesday evening's topic, the 15th WOC at Rio de Janeiro:
Helen
Kathy
Barbara
Gail
Greg
Andy
Richard
John
Peter
Harold
Lois
Present, that is, for as long as the internet would allow connection and the World Series allowed concentration. :-) I have taken the liberty of "realigning" discussion items for the sake of clarity...mlg
Harold:
Lois, with the net as busy as it is, and all the fancy crap they have on the introductory page, it is a wonder we ever get a response. I only have a 28.8 modem and it was running it's little legs off.
Lois:
I'm 28,8 too, Harold (at long last! took five techs to figure out how to access at more than 14,4)...the intro page only loads once I believe...I'll ask. If it's slowing us down, I can get some stuff off. Had hoped for others to send orchid pictures for the intro page (providing it doesn't slow down subsequent chat). When the net is REALLY loaded, I turn images off completely.
Hi, Harold...tell you what Harold and John - gonna email you a contact at WBS. Believe me they'll work out your problems. I wrote at 8 p.m. tonight re the chat button, and had a telephone call from them!! They are really trying.
Harold:
HOT Announcement HOT!!!!! I finished my greenhouse just in time to get all my Catts and Vandas in before it went down to the 30's last night. Had to hurry and slap together 2 benches yesterday morning and the electrician put one plug in so I could run my heater....but I made it. I will now stand very quiet listening to the cheers.
Barbara:
Andy, BTW I forgot to enclose the name for that seedpod, it is: Epidendrum radicans.
Lois:
Greg - have you something to add to my treatise on Rio?
Greg:
Don't know Lois....you covered it pretty thoroughly. We did a few different things...Belo Horizonte and the overnighter to Petropolis & Teresopolis
We spent a few days in Minas Gerais and got up into the hills to see L. flava, mantiquirae and Epi. harrisoniana in bloom plus some Oncidiums in Teresopolis.
Helen (Just in from society meeting):
The speaker canceled and the talk was given by our President and it was a condensed version on Calanthes. Boy, the new Japanese Calanthes are quite beautiful!
[NOTE: The Japanese take their Calanthes seriously! Entire shows devoted to Calanthes. A couple years ago Don Herman was invited to Japan for just such a judging...he did a society program on it...mlg]
Lois:
Three cheers!! I cleaned up my plants and moved them in last Tues and Wed clomping around on that damnedable cast...don't want cheers...a medal will do. *LOL*
KB:
Hi everyone! Harold, good work on the greenhouse! Lois, great treatise on the WOC/Brasil. The Catt that took best of show was stunning!
Lois:
Re first impressions:
Driving in from the International Airport in the south, thru the industrial area gives one a sad first impression of the city. Had the International Airport been situated in the north, this important first impression would have been perhaps better -- but then, juxtaposed against luxury living, the poor may even seem poorer.
There's lots of building, general facelifting and work on parks going on in Rio. The new president has promised to clean up the city and the inner bay in order to vie for the next Olympics in Rio.
Andy:
I'm surprised they would want the Olympics. It's usually a loosing proposition. Most places claim they lost beaucoup bucks because not enough people and not enough money spent to pay for it. Then when Atlanta commercialized it, it got criticized for it.
Greg:
I'd be curious to hear some opinions on the Grand Champion.
Lois: Bear with me - gonna show some of those photos -- magnificent photos of the 15WOC are at Delfina de Araujo's Homepage, and have a few more comments to make...then let's have questions...and then I'd sure like to hear from Greg on Petropolis & Teresopolis.
[I was bumped along about this point - for almost an hour! I am inserting what I had planned to cover here. Discussion re C. nobilior is covered later in these notes.]
The show was held at the Museum of Modern Art -- a items had been removed (a gargantuan task) from all three floors which were given over to the 15th WOC show. The site was suited to the use. A broken fountain in front of the facility was an indication of just how much "fix-up" is ahead for Rio to get ready for the Olympics...very common to see broken fountains filled with green algae -- even the pool at the Lage House (Dancing in the Park) was half-filled with fetid water. Rio was just going into its spring season - perhaps the fountains hadn't been cleaned for this year.
Grand Champion Exhibit,
Floralia,
Gold Medal.
Reserve Champion Exhibit,
Aranda Orchids,
Gold Medal.
Grand Champion Plant,
C. nobilior 'Matalia',
Bio Orchids.
Also won Best Brazilian Species,
Best Laeliinae, and
Best Cattleya Species.
Reserve Champion Plant,
Vascostylis Cynthia Alonso 'Sapphire', AM/AOS,
RF Orchids.
The Reserve Champion trophy was a magnificent amethyst geode with a silver cattleya in the center. Robert Fuchs took several first places -- I think Barbara can address this...believe it was her newsletter which listed the Fuchs achievements.
John:
Vancouver is the next WOC spot. I missed that [the AOS show in Vancouver this past spring]
Helen:
Richard, Rio was not a temptation to me, I will go to Vancouver they really do things well there! Vancouver is very beautiful the parks are just gorgeous and the place is clean! I am looking forward! New York hopes to get WOC in 2005!
John:
Where in NY would it be held - Brooklyn Botanic Gardens?
Richard:
Ditto -- I'm looking forward to Vancouver! I've never been there, but I have spent a few days in Victoria a couple of times and it is wonderful!
Richard:
That didn't come out quite right -- I mean, if the WOC is held in Rio in another 12 years, would you return?
Lois, would you do it again, knowing what you know now? (And I mean going back to Rio, not
just to a WOC)
Greg:
I'm ready to go back for Christmas. As I mentioned previously, we can't expect Latin nations to live up to our neurotic, uptight standards............go with the flow, let the rythmn of the Brazilian music carry you to a different place, why take the US with me?
[Hmmmmm - for me, it was as close to third-world country travel as I wish to come at this stage of life. If I went back, I'd stay at the Copacabana! *grin*]
John:
Isn't it about time that we had a WOC here in the US? Maybe on the West Coast? I went to the one held in Long Beach - #2 I think. I wish I could go again. Now that I am retired maybe????
Barbara:
I'm with you John, we should have one near here.
NOTE: WOC's - I agree, the US is due in 2002! But more likely northeast.
Greg:
Yes Lois I mean the Plant, Cattleya nobilior 'Matalia" as big a fan that I am of bifoliate Cattleyas I certainly do not think this flower is FCC material...............where's the color ???
Lois:
Indeed - but they did no AOS judging in Rio, did they? Wasn't an AOS show - nothing was entered "for AOS judging". [AOS judging occurs only at an AOS-approved show/pre-announced supplemental judging - AOS judges do not get "credit" for judging WOC shows for which AOS approval has not been requested and officially granted...mlg]
Richard:
I'm sort of shocked! You mean there is no AOS judging at a WOC? I thought it was an AOS-sponsored event?
John:
Thought that it was also. Maybe couldn't get enough judges down there? [There were plenty of AOS judges among the 175 present -- just was not an AOS-judged show.]
Greg:
Cattleya nobilior is supposed to have color, that is unless it's an 'alba'.....Lois, how many points count for color out of 100 ??? [30 points for color, but remember pastels...mlg]
KB:
Greg, when I first saw this I thought it was wonderful for its subtlety. Did you see it in real life? does the picture do it justice (no matter what you think of the award).
Lois:
It surely isn't rose-lavender - there is blue variety "Hugueneya' (bluish pink) - could these species be a cross between the normal variety and the blue variety? Or yet another variety? I'm with Kathy - the pastel delicacy is appealing to me. I could certainly not cut off too many points for color for that reason...and the form is so outstanding I suspect f 3 - f 4 (or more).
Helen:
I was not that impressed but I did not see it in person! It must have had some special qualities that impressed the judges.
Greg:
Sure I saw the plant in person, I still want to know where the color went. The flower WAS large and FLAT, and the lip was very nicely marked, I've never in my 25 years growing orchids have known judges to grant awards for subtlety.
Greg:
Correctamente Lois. But the plant received a 90 pt Gold Medal awarded by AOS judges. to me that = an FCC.
[Aha! A 90 pt Gold Medal awarded by international judges at a non-AOS judged show. But, then, had it been scored by AOS standards, perhaps it would have been a 90 pt FCC -- or close to it. After all, such pastel beauties as BC Cynthia and BC Island Charm come immediately to mind...mlg]
Greg showed photo of C. nobilior 'Matalia'
KB:
Holy s---! Where's the color [in the ‘Matalia' clone]?
So then, we won't be seeing C. nobilior 'Matalia' for sale in the AOS bulletin for $250/seedling next year.
KB:
Ah! Now I understand! What color, colors is it usually?
[There are several color forms, including alba and semi-alba. Bishop's shows fairly recent AOS awards to varieties ‘amaliae', ‘suavissima' - Carl Withner refers to a blue variety ‘Hugueneya' which is bluish pink and states some people think C. walkeriana ‘Pendentive' (an alba) may actually be a variety of C. nobilior. Also, it is interesting to note that there are two C. walkeriana AM's to variety nobilior!
C. nobilior var suavissima ‘Jose Luiz', AM/AOS (80 pts), Sao Paulo Brazil 9/22/94 - three flowers, 10.9 cm ns; ss & ps blush pink; lip base color blush pink with rose-lavender venation and light yellow in center; side lobes blush pink with rose-lavender venation on edges.
C. nobilior ‘Evaldo Wenzel', AM/AOS (82 pts), Sao Paulo Brazil 11/22/89 - two flowers; shell pink with greenish color around base of column; lip darker pink on edges becoming yellow toward column with dark purple stripes.
C. nobilior ‘Fuchs', CCM/AOS (83 pts), Coral Gables OS Show, Miami 4/7/89 - 120 flwrs/15 buds/43 infl; pinky lavender, lip darker lavender; 9 cm ns (photo shows flowers of the usual open, recurved form)
C. nobilior var amaliae ‘#001SB', HCC/AOS (79 pts), Santa Barbara Show 10/7/89 - two flowers; 9.3 cm ns; off-white with yellow tinge; ps with light lavender blush; lip richer yellow centrally; mostly flat, ds and ps slightly recurving; shape and size superior for type (if flower in this photo is superior, ‘Matalia' is a superlative clone)
‘#6SB', same show as above - HCC/AOS (75 pts) Four flowers; 7.2 cm ns; ss/ps white overlaid with light blush lavender; lip deep yellow overlaid with dark lavender veining; form generally flat; size somewhat small for species.
C. nobilior ‘Robert', AM/AOS (80 pts), Gold Coast Show, North Miami FL 11/9/89 - Six flwrs/2 buds/3 infl, 9.9 cm ns; nearly semi-alba, very strongly held and evenly spaced; ss/ps sparkling sugar white; lip pink tinged with fuchsia basally and small central yellow spot; slight blush of color on ss/ps precluded higher score.
C. walkeriana var nobilior ‘Sally', AM/AOS (80 pts), Pacific South Jdg, San Gabriel CA 4/10/84 - Two flwrs on two infl; 15.9 cm ns; soft rose-pink ss/ps; slightly deeper pink on center portion of midlobe, deeper rose-pink on edges of all three lobes. [The other var nobilior AM/82 is listed in the Register of Awards, having been awarded in 1961...mlg]
KB:
Greg, so color's a criteria? I don't mean to sound stupid, but I am! most AOS awards will be for the most colorful flower? In addition to ??? Flatness? Symmetry?
KB
Lois, what would the AOS judging think of the present champ? What criteria was it lacking? I know nothing about standards so you have free rein to 'learn me a thing or two'.
[Kathy, I'd have to have it right in front of me and put the pencil to it -- gut feeling? VERY high 80's; maybe squeak thru with a 90 on a team average...mlg]
Greg:
The Brazilians have some funny ideas about their native Cattleyas, they inbreed them way too much for my taste to where they don't even look like the species anymore.
KB:
I understand there are some they don't let out of the country. Millionaires prize them. and hoard them.
Andy:
Greg:
I do too, Andy, I guess awards don't mean everything. We have a C. percivaliana x C. loddigesii in bloom right now. Certainly not a hybrid I would ever think up. But both parents were blue clones and the flowers have a lot of old-fashioned charm...not award quality but nice to have.
Helen:
I am with you, Greg, like my species to look like wild species, even if they curl and are not ironed flat and not blue black, I do grow a lot of awarded Paphs and Phrags, but my species are all varieties. I have never seen a bad niveum or concolor!
[The discussion of what is a true species has had quite a workover recently in the Orchid List Digest. I believe we all would like to be purists, BUT! One of the basic tenets of AOS judging is to continually adjust your standards. Hybrids are being remade with better species -- generally these f 3 to f-infinity species - and they are obviously going to be much better than the clones that went before them. I think, given enough time, chance tetraploids would likely eventually combine to make these super-races of hybrids...mlg]
KB:
Barbara can testify to my first attempt to judge orchids at our society. But it opened my eyes as to how difficult it is to make a judgment.
Andy:
I was asked to judge at one of our meetings, and I was so thrilled by the request, I excepted, then realized I had plants in almost all the categories. I think I helped judge novice, small greenhouse and no greenhouse.
Andy:
Lois, who all is going to be at the EOC? Hallie may not be there until Sat or Sun and Helen will be going back Thursday. I figured we could meet Wed nite sometime.
Lois:
Wed works for me - but I have Judges' Workshop from 8-10 Wed nite
Andy:
Know of any more of our group who will be in Baltimore?
Lois:
Only Hallie and Helen have mentioned it...keep thinking MAYBE Dr Jay will turn up.
NOTE: They do NOT announce upgrades at the Wed nite Judges' Workshop -- it is an open forum and topic this time is "Judging as a Committee". It is open to one and all. Elevations are announced Saturday morning at the Judges Forum Breakfast. The COA has to meet and approve promotions before they're announced...Everyone is invited to attend the Judges' Forum with me Wed nite; and sign up for the breakfast on Saturday...mlg
KB:
Lois, so where's the EOC being held? I thought it was in NY.
Andy:
The 41st Eastern Orchid Congress
November 13-17, 1996
Renaissance (Stouffer) Harborplace Hotel
202 E. Pratt Street
Baltimore, MD. E-Mail VLowe@Mail.BCPL.LIB.MD.US
Lois:
Msg just in from Dr Jay! Alive and well, bogged under with contracts. Promises to return when pressure is off. Now that's good news! He's just being beaten to death with success!
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