TRANSCRIPT OF FORUM
Present 27 (undoubtedly a new record):
tomjordan
josh
gaillevy (Boca Raton FL)
prankster (Susan in Oregon)
bmtorchis (Barbara in CA)
marilyninOttawa
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln NE)
marylois (NW Louisiana)
EmF (Emily)
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga CA)
Ellen
kawacym (Jim in San Jose CA)
1clay (Derek Marshall, Sandwich NH)
Clare (in Los Angeles)
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
dkburch (Donna)
fleur (Tasmania)
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Ruckster (Sharon, Palestine TX)
KBBarrett (Kathy, CA)
sparky-steve (Boca Raton FL)
Evlyn
Richard in WPB
PaphioDePaphio (Jason in Brooklyn)
peterlin (Dallas)
Eagle615(?)
marilyninOttawa
Today, we are going to discuss the issues relevant to orchid reintroduction. WHY are we doing it? WHAT species are being considered for reintroduction and what is the source of the plants to be reintroduced? HOW MANY should be reintroduced, WHERE and WHAT monitoring if any should be done afterwards?
Other issues are the potential problems, such as impact on other species. We can start free-wheeling discussion until more come aboard.
EmF31
Have reintroductions already occurred, and if so, where and how successful was the project?
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
I can see the point on the impact on other plant life, but as far as the number introduced..wouldn't nature take care of there being too many?
marilyninOttawa
Lets start thinking about each and every orchid we have in our collections. We introduce those plants to an artificial environment yet most survive. How is this different to reintroducing a species back into the wild habitat?
There have been reintroductions of e.g. Paph. rothschildianum in Sabah, North Borneo. Various terrestrial orchids have been reintroduced to fields in England. In Canada, Platanthera ciliaris has been re-introduced to a wetland.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
What has been the result of those reintroductions?
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
I met some people trying to do that in Costa Rica and it isn't allowed!
marilyninOttawa
I saw an orchid garden in South Limburg, Holland, where a number of European terrestrial orchids had been planted for display. These plants have thrived and their seeds have begun new colonies in the neighboring countryside. There is some concern about bringing new ecotypes into an area. Part of
tonight's discussion centers around that situation. Once we know how to, should we?
EmF31
It's a matter of suitable environment- controlling predators and providing optimal conditions. It's hard to control natural predators in their own environment. Beasts and humans are probably the greatest dangers to wild plants. Are these the only considerations, or am I missing others?
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I like the idea of species orchids being reintroduced back into the wild. If plants that are not endangered and are put into land that is set aside and preserved.
marilyninOttawa
Gail, do you know why it isn't allowed?
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
No, not really. This couple wanted to reintroduce C. skinneri to the rain forest. They also raise Macaws and turn them loose there.
Orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Could they be afraid of introducing virus to the wild plants already there?
marilyninOttawa
Predation is certainly a concern. It seems, howEver, that there is more concern about just what will happen if and when the plants reproduce. Another concern is - what if the plants cannot sustain their population.
This could happen if the plants are reintroduced but not the pollinators. Virus is a possibility. Susceptibility to pests and diseases is another possibility.
EmF31
The whole problem of them reproducing shouldn't be a big deal. Look how many seeds survive out of the thousands that are produced in each pod. Are domestically raised plants more tolerant to infestation, even species plants. I agree that only species should be introduced.
121133ellen
If extinction is a concern, aren't we better off reproducing the species in a controlled environment?
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
The pollinators would have to be there. It would be a big mess having someone hand pollinate every flower.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
I hope they will try to reintroduce Paphs in China. [Remember, paphs come from tropical Asia...mlg]
marylois
But disease and predators are a problem for every living thing...even if some - or even most - don't survive, reintroduction would save a few.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
What would be done with the species raised in a controlled environment? Would they ever be put back into the wild, and if so, how would they do compared to the plants already established around them?
The plants raised in a controlled environment would be seed grown I assume?
EmF31
Keeping predators off shouldn't be difficult. Keeping unscrupulous collectors off is probably the biggest worry. There are so many these days.
121133ellen
If the attempt is made, a balance with pollinators has to be acheived.
marilyninOttawa
One problem that arises in tropical gardens, is the introduction of seed and seedlings of cultivated orchids into the environment. I have observed this happen with Caularthron bicornutum, and even with a naturally hybridized plant. Seedlings turned up everywhere, on the shadehouse, in trees.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
What if seed was spread around instead of plants. Would not that eliminate virus?'
1clay
Loss of species is due to habitat destruction...it is useless to think of reintroduction of species until habitat destruction ceases...an unlikely scenario.
121133ellen
I can't see people acting as the natural pollinators on steep mountain sides.
121133ellen
How do we accommodate nature's mutations and variations as living things adapt? Sometimes we are more of a hindrance than a help.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
What is the main objection of these so-called conservationists?
marilyninOttawa
Botanical gardens may have a role to play in creating the artificial environments.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I agree with Em F31 that the biggest predator will be poachers orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
What are they (conservationists) concerned about, Marilyn?
EmF31
Ellen-it's happening today in Hawaii, on sheer cliffs. The DNR has to climb sheer cliffs and pollinate flowers on plants whose natural pollinator, a moth, was wiped out completely.
marilyninOttawa
Major concerns include: blending ecotypes or introducing a foreign ecotype (i.e., same species but from a different locality).
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I like the idea of spreading seed around.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Marilyn, so you are thinking too many seedlings, not the loss of the ones put out? Would be nice to have so many orchids one had to pull them like weeds. *grin*
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Marilyn, then you are looking for preserves and parks to re-introduce into I take it.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
What would be worse...the blending of ecotypes, or the loss of a species?
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
How do we select which clones to introduce...I'm thinking of a wide ranging species like , say , Brassia caudata....The B. caudata growing in my sunroom is NOT the genetic type as that that might grow in the Everglades. Should mine be planted in the Everglades? I don't think so.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
Reintroducing into parks in their natural area and then wait for them to escape into the wild from there.
EmF31
I don't see a problem of introducing a foreign species if its original territory is completely fried - like so many acres of burnt down tropical forest. If we want to see it in nature, we're gonna have to do something. What am I gonna tell (the) grandkids?
marilyninOttawa
I know from my experience with Cypripedium reginae, that there are different ecotypes and that this is seen from the very first stages of seed germination and seedling behaviour. Another example is with Mexicoa where there are two ecotypes, Guerrero and Oaxaca.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
I like putting them out instead of in compots...a few to a small (6 inch) area. I find plants I grow from flask aclimatize to my conditions more readily than a seedling or mature plant.
121133ellen
Maybe, EM, that's not what nature had in mind
marilyninOttawa
Good question, Sam.
EmF31
Ellen- I agree, but we have irrevocably changed what nature wanted anyway. Where do we go from here? The ethic involved are muddied by our neglect and ignorance.
marilyninOttawa
In response to Susan and others. Our experiments seem to indicate that if we sow seed in the habitat and are willing to accept whatever germinates as what we will work with, then that is the truest selection.
121133ellen
If we don't solve the problem of deforestation, then we will have to preserve our grandchildren's future in tropical parks like the areas set aside to save threatened animals.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
That may be the best method, let nature take its course by spreading seeds.
121133ellen
What happens when the habitat is gone?
EmF31
The strong shall survive, as evolution goes. You have to keep the best genepool going and noone does a better job of that, we just need to make sure that we have a wide pool to choose from, because we've all seen what happens when a genepool thins out.
marilyninOttawa
John, with the Mexicoas, I was referring to our observations on progeny, both within and between ecotypes. Seedlings look different, grow differently. I have not crossed the two ecotypes.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
If the habitat disappears, you aren't any worse off than doing nothing.
prankster d Susan from Oregon)
In Oregon , weve nearly lost the Red-band trout through the introduction of rainbow trout into red-bands habitat. When the introduction was made, they thought the fishes were the same. Now we know they're distinct species, but too late. The red-band is hybridizing with the more common rainbows , and is losing its distinctive qualities. I would worry that the same sort of thing could happen with plants if we nknowingly introduce plants that aren't from the same geographic population as the original type.
EmF31
I meant- no one does a better job of keeping gene pools going than nature.
Clare in LA
'Growing like weeds', I like that. And what would be wrong with that? Excluding the conservationist point of view, is purity of species really a requirement? We don't know what nature has in mind for any of us.
marilyninOttawa
Good point, Em.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Em, so you are saying that we need to introduce seeds, etc., from different sources, different parentage?
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Once in the wild (at ANY stage), survival of the fittest kicks in.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Lois - does that include all of us?
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Hi Clare. some good points.
dkburch
Clair in LA, I would agree about purity of species. I doubt that much of that exists even in nature. There is bound to be lots of hybrid introgression in most species.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Yes, Clare. Exactly!
RSKUSD
What about survival of the least unfortunate?
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
Susan - I believe its called evolution.
EmF31
No one knows. Therein lies the quandary. We shouldn't reintroduce because we shouldn't have to. But, it only looks more and more like we have to, if we want our kids and their kids and so on to see what we got to see. We have gone so far into damaging that trying o bring it all back the way it was is unrealistic, unfortunately.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
You betcha, John - sans welfare! *grin*
marilyninOttawa
We have just re-visited a site that 30 years ago had a thriving colony of Cyp. reginae (sea of pink). The beaver came, dammed and flooded the place: cedars grew and densely shaded the place, and the orchids disappeared. On our revisit, we found nine clumps. The beaver dam resulted in silting which caused the beaver to leave. The trees grew fast and now with some windfall, the light is once again penetrating to the forest floor. The seeds either were already there (seedbank) or blew in fromelsewhere (unlikely). The point is that the population is recovering because the site is protected from human development as it is in a park.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
Unlike animals which are able to move, plants rely on either the wind, or in the case or orchids, animal pollinators to spread the pollen and some insects go to only certain flowers due to a limited range of visible UV colors.
marilyninOttawa
Good point Susan.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
THAT's what causes the disruption in Mother Nature, RSKUSD.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
I think it all comes back to the point of the destruction of rain forests and the natural habitat.
dkburch
EMF31--I think we are kidding ourselves if we think we can bring back things the way they were...even nature goes forward!
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
There would be natural hybridization, but not near the extent as in the case of the trout. Most insects would go from flower to flower on the spike, or to another plant of the same type for more nectar, or whatever they are looking for.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Sure, Sam - but we KNOW we can't stop that...what's the next step?
RSKUSD
So...bottom line...what's an effective and realistic way to reduce or halt (or reverse??) habitat destruction? Any ideas?
12113ellen
Is it realistic to expect people to put the survival of our orchids over the survival of human families?
Isn't that the bottom line, they destroy the rainforests in order to survive themselves?
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
In 4 billion years or so, the sun will expire...whatever else you plan, things will change...
marilyninOttawa
Another aspect of reintroduction to consider is trans location. That is, rescued plants and where should they be relocated?
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Hmmm...I think worrying about solar evolution at this stage is a bit inappropriate.
EmF31
Sam-yes it does. It needs to be stopped, but, sinister forces are involved there. And DK- you're correct about kidding ourselves, but I feel that nature moves in a cycle, rather than a path. We have disrupted the cycle, a spoke in the wheel has broken and it won't roll any more.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
There would be a lot of generations of orchids in 4 billion years!
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
Habitat destruction is directly proportional to human population...how many people does this planet need? How many can it afford?
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Except for Paph rothschildianum - only a few generations of that species...
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Ellen, unfortunately that is the main point I think. What can be done. I doubt if anything can.
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Habitat destruction is directly related to patterns of resource utilization, not so much absolute population size.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Well put, Em31.
EmF31
I get so charged up about all this. My soap box is well worn.
dkburch
A general note of information: I have been involved with several reintroduction projects, most of which were done because the plants were going to be destroyed by development--so why not put them somewhere and see if any will survive. We do have some plans to reintroduce plants or seed where once the species grew, but has been collected or frozen out. Who is to say our efforts will be worthwhile? However, think we should try to do something positive.
marilyninOttawa
I think we can envision the evolutionary process as a series of interlocking circles. Each circle represents a cycle of birth and death of an ecosystem. Fire, flood, beaver, insects, hurricanes may wreak destruction - but the cycle continues elsewhere. A little bit different but always progressing.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
THAT's the bottom line, Derek.
EmF31
When a forest is burned, they farm it till the soil gives out, then they graze (?) cattle on it until the dirt can no longer support that life and then it turns to desert, because all of the topsoil has eroded into the local river, exposing rock. Desertification is happening all over the world and once that soil is lost, you can't plant a seed at all.
Clare in LA
DK, yes we must go forward, but we need to consider what wonderful things man has destroyed in his ignorance. Yet, on the other hand, after my limited experience in re-establishing flora on our mountains after our fires, we must consider 'other than indigenous/natural' flora for the betterment of all.
marilyninOttawa
Donna, could you tell us what you have done to monitor reintroductions?
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
To re-introduce seeds, what vehicle would be used? Person walking along or a plane or copter?
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
I feel that a plane or copter would be best.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Hey! Feed seeds to your dog!
121133ellen
Have to call it a night early this evening, knowing that with the best of intentions we can't decide what is correct for another culture which is fighting to survive as we sit in our homes and greenhouses. It goes back to the haves and have nots.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
Hey, good question Jim. After all, many grow in trees.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Jim, that will be like kill an ant with a shot gun.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
Yes, it would be like killing an ant with a shotgun, but isn't that what they are doing in the wild anyway?
RKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Why not use wind?
marilyninOttawa
Another thought. What might happen if historic seed is used to produce plants for reintroduction into a habitat several hundred years from now? If we are now banking seeds, surely that is a possible consideration?
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
Would the seeds be viable in 100 years? How are they stored?
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
How long would the seeds be viable?
dkburch
Marilyn, our reintro efforts were with ground orchids, which we placed in areas adjacent to known populations of the same species (hoping that the necessary mycorrhizal fungi would be present). Since reintro we have designed a survey to be filled out on selected plants which we tagged. In two years of follow-up, it is apparent that some of the plants have survived and have produced seedlings. A severe drought in the area has been a negative aspect to contend with. Next year's survey will tell if any of the
plants just stayed underground, but have survived.
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Interesting question. Considering that some orchid plants are certainly several hundred years old, seed that is being produced today is almost certainly an amalgamation of genotypes covering several centuries, in the
case of some epiphytic species.
1clay
Some seeds can be kept for hundreds of years under the right conditions. But, unless the habitat is viable, they would not grow.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Deep freeze the seeds, might work.
marilyninOttawa
Seeds could be stored under liquid nitrogen.
RSKUSD (Ron in San Diego)
Under liquid nitrogen, viability should be retained almost indefinitely.
EmF31
Helos and planes are a great way to get into a remote area, and would make for a very random placement, wind being what it is. Would rotor wash magnify this effect?
marilyninOttawa
How long? There is some variation between species and the study has not been going on long enough to say 100 years for certain. That is the hope, however.
55SS (James in Fresno CA)
What about introducing the fungus as well as the seed, sort of like inoculation?
marilyninOttawa
Most orchid seeds are airborne but a few such as with Disa may be water borne.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Did any of you read about in China, a Lotus seed found in the tomb, about 1,000 years old, and it was about to mericloning the gene, and bringing to flower?
dkburch
About continuous circles of change--have any studies been done of the characteristics of known species in the wild, and if there have been natural documentable changes in the whole population over the last 100 years?
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
I pollinate the Cyps along the roadside in the spring. Their rate of fertilization is very low, less than 5% I would guess. With a toothpick, you can bring that up to 100%.
KB Barrett
Barbara, I've heard of that. Also viable pollen in Egyptian tombs.
marilyninOttawa
Good point. Ron. We know that some Cypripedium plants are 80 or more years old. Epiphytes could be almost as old as the tree on which they are growing.
EmF31
James-with many terrestrials, we don't even know the identity of the microrrhizal fungus host.
dkburch
Marilyn, I was interested in some of the advance questions you posed. For instance, what are some ideas on the size of a re-introduced population?
Clare in LA
As this is all new to me I wonder if there are truly folk out there, not only to commit the effort (which appears to be true) but the $$ involved in a project like this? I tend to go the way of 'secret gardens', small plots that can be rediscovered year after year.
marilyninOttawa
We have some evidence that seedling phenotype and maybe even genotype can be controlled by the seed parent. Some desert plants (not orchids) can adapt almost immediately to changes in the environment and reflect this in the progeny.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
That just to shows, all living beings will recycle themselves thru the continuous of birth and death.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Marilyn, was Lamarck partly correct?
mailyninOttawa
No, this is not Lamarkian evolution but more a result of heterozygosity where certain 'hidden' traits are expressed.
EmF31
Preserves need to be set aside, and luckily, there are people who do this sort of thing. Nature Conservancy outright purchases land for protection purposes. I don't know what sort of orchid projects they may have going, but they do tend to work on the whole ecosystem when they get something.
marilyninOttawa
James. I work with terrestrial orchids and have observed that the match between fungus isolate and seedling is very tight. The fungus from one plant is more supportive of that plant's progeny than that of a near neighbor. Frankly, I do not know what we are dealing with in terms of all species. It certainly
deserves more study.
dkburch
FYI--with regard to protection of a population from natural predators: I have been monitoring some Habenaria macroceratitis seedlings in the wild, hoping to get some good photos when they flowered. Wouldn't you know that a few armadillos have decimated the whole lot of them? I'm about ready to have
some armadillo stew!
marilyninOttawa
Donna, regarding the question about the size of a re-introduced population. I would suggest that the plants to be introduced be chosen at random and that there be at least five individuals. Oddly enough, we are finding, at least with Cypripediums, that we can identify one very good seed parent amongst five randomly chosen plants.
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
Marilyn, isn't it true that other plants besides orchids have a symbiotic relationship with fungus?
EmF31
On Monday, Deep South OS will host orchid taxonomist Francisco Miranda, author of book 'Orchids from the Brazilian Amazon'. He is an active conservationist. I will try to see if he has any direct info on local
reintroduction projects in Brazil.
1clay
EMF31 Is Francisco Miranda the person on the O-Zone article about laelias?
EmF31
Derek-probably- but I don't rightly know. He's supposed to be world renown.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I just checked OZone and it doesn't have that article anymore.
dkburch
Miranda has written a very good book on the orchids of the Brazilian Amazon, and includes a lot of habitat info in booth the book and his lectures. I have heard him lecture on cattleyas and laelias of Brazil, and thought both lectures were excellent.
dkburch
PS--Miranda has a gorgeous tetraploid Cattleya schilleriana coerulea which he has selfed. Look for plants in a few years.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Nature Conservancy has a rain forest adoption program. For less than you''ll pay for your next orchid, you can adopt an acre Nature Conservancy
marilyninOttawa
One of the longest records I know of is at Rothamstead in England. This unfortunately has nothing to do with orchids but could show the progress of change such as weed population development over time. Long term orchid population studies are few and far between. One of the longest was done by Tamm in Europe. His study is spans more than 40 years. Most long term studies are only a few years long. Our 14 year study of Epipactis helleborine has revealed population increase and decrease affected by tree fall and
re-growth of the forest.
1clay
Marilyn, I had never seen Epipactis helleborine until last year, and now it is growing like a weed all around my garden...this is one tough plant.
EmF31
Donna-send some of that epipactis my way!
marilyninOttawa
What we need are places where plants can grow. In our local park of 88,000 hectares, there are only a very few rich orchid sites and many of these are merely 100 metres wide. They lie along seams where calcareous and acidic rocks come together.
EmF31
Marilyn-do you have any problem with poachers?
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
Marilyn, what kind of orchids will you grow in the park...I assume it is in Ottawa?
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
A lot of local moist meadowy and woods habitat is lost by livestock stompage around my area.
KB Barrett
Marilyn, I seem to recall from my college days that there was a mathematical model for making several small separate habitat/parks/etc., instead of one largepark/habitat/etc, because you actually can save more species that way. Was originally worked out in the S Pacific Islands. called the island effect, or some such... Smaller areas, yet more species. Not all species it seems can make it to one large island, but several species can make it to any given 'landfall'.
dkburch
Marilyn, are you saying that only one in five plants is productive?
MarilyninOttawa
Derek. Yes, many plants have relationships with fungi, either as ectomycorrhizae (outside the roots) as in Pine, as endomycorrhizae (within roots) as in orchids, or in specialized structures associated with roots
(vesiculoarbuscular) as in Alders. Calopogon mycorrhizae extend from within the orchid root into nearby sphagnum moss plants. I believe that the Australian underground orchid has a fungus associated with a bush Melaleuca (I may have the wrong name for the bush and if I do, I apologize).
Em. Let us know if he has any experiences to share. Thank you.
EmF31
KB- believe science is tending to think more the other way, now. Preserving large areas helps out territorial beings, big ones like pumas and bears, and small ones, like Eastern bluebirds and snakes. That's why highway systems are being built with animal transit areas (bridges).
Evlyn
Just read an article about repotting paphs--said put some of the old media back into keep the fungus going---comments anyone??
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
Marilyn, in simple terms, how do the roots and the fungus interact? Do they touch, exchange products, merge? What is really going on?
marilyninOttawa
Derek. The interesting thing is that Epipactis plants produce a quick to germinate seed class when subjected to particular and as yet undefined conditions. These seedlings grow faster than their fellow seeds from other capsules which require cold to germinate. These other plants never catch up, at least in the short term.
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
I have heard, relevant to what Evlyn said about repotting paphs, that the Japanese have isolated some fungus that makes orchids grow better? Anyone know about this? Is it for sale?
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Most of our timber trees (pines, douglass fir ,etc. ) depend on fungal associations. Read a paper once that credited squirrels as the major fungus-dispersing agent.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Tell you what - when a pot and plant are 'clean' to the eye, when I repot I just rinse out the pot and repot the same orchid in its pot hoping for transmission of the original fungus. Things do seem to recover from repotting faster.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I germinated Bletilla seeds in a Coca-cola bottle inside a greenhouse. I ended up with about 2 dozen plants - and by the way - one of them has bloomed.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
What is RD-20 doing to the 'good' fungi in my pots?
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Derek, that's why when repot Bonsai tree, always keep some old soil with the root, especially soil with the white powd fungus around.
1clay (Derek in Sandwich NH)
Well, this is has been educational in more ways than one. It's late here on the east coast, so I will try to catch up with you all later.
EmF31
Derek- HP Norton showed us a fungus product during his lecture last month and I don't remember the name. I will call a friend tomorrow and ask if she recalls. Remind me next time we chat.
dkburch
prankster--good comment about the RD-20 killing fungi; so does the nitrate content in fertilizers. When we pot up and fertilize plants from the wild we make them dependent on US fo their food supply rather than on what mother nature usually provides.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Question: I have an epidendrum that looks like it is carrying 3 pods, how long before harvest? Anyone interested in pods of an unknown species?
marilyninOttawa
Poachers are a potential problem. I always live in fear that my test plants will be dug up and sold in the market. A colleague from Manitoba had all his reintroduced Cyp acaule dug up. Our approach is to educate the public not to buy wild collected plants.
EmF31
Marilyn-I get so sick when I hear stories like that. Poaching anything sucks, rhino or cypripedium. Don't all cyps die within a year of being removed from native habitat-because of the fungus thing?
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Jim Epi. seed pod will take 90 to 120 days. Look for the color to change.
marilyninOttawa
Derek, There are 43 orchid taxa in the Park which is located on the Canadian Shield. The rich variety of rock type and habitat make it suitable for Cyp. pubescens and acaule, Calopogon and Malaxis, several species of Spiranthes, Several Plantantheras, etc. The most common are the Cyp. acaule and Epipactis helleborine closely followed by Plantanthera psycodes. This is much the same flora that you would find through New England.
dkburch
With all this talk of diseases, I thought it interesting that Marilyn in her 'pre-game warm-up' mentioned the possibility of introducing disease into the natural population when supplementing it with translocated plants.
marilyninOttawa
Right on KB. There is probably an optimum size of preserve to make this happen. Another appraoch is having wildlife corridors like hedgerows, etc. The land is somewhat broken up but plants and animals can transit from on to the other place.
EmF31
Is there a way that plants could be tested before being introduced? Virus testing is expensive so it's only worth it to the commercial breeder, even though it's important for everyone to have clean specimens.
dkburch
I missed who made the comment about the Japanese finding a new fungus beneficial to orchids--was that the Taiwan Sugar Company, by chance? I am interested in their research and the development of pot plants, especially of Phals.
marilyninOttawa
Donna, One of five is far more productive. There are bigger capsules, more seeds, bigger embryos and better germination in flask.
How fungi interact with roots. Mycorrhizal fungi enter a root via a root hair. They normally enter only living root hairs located in a zone just behind the root tip. Once inside the root, the fungal threads (hyphae) enter living root cells (in the cortex) where they form a coiled structure called a peloton. The infected cell digests the peloton slowly over time and later resumes normality. It can be reinfected. From what I have observed, the fungus that lives outside of the root, greatly increases root surface area and may function in assisting the absorption of water and minerals. Various investigators have shown positive movement of water, sugars and minerals from an outside source via the fungus to the orchid plant.
Fungicides will affect fungi and may affect mycorrhizal associates.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Marilyn, is there a relationship between type of fungus and type of soil?
marilyninOttawa
I am not signing off just yet but before too many leave us, we will be having another conservation chat on the second Wednesday of November. i.e., Nov 12. Topic? I am open to ideas. We could discuss putting conservation to work in our collections. Thoughts anyone?
Donna, I know that there are disease-prone individuals in the populations I study. I would imagine that this is possibly the case for other species too. Diseases can be seed borne. Disease susceptibility can be transmitted to progeny but disease will not necessarily happen unless the plants are stressed by being too cold, too warm, too shaded, etc. I have no way of knowing how to allow for this possiblity if doing reintroductions.
dkburch
Marilyn, a question before I have to sign off--what might be the role of botanical gardens in reintroductions???
marilyninOttawa
Virus testing is possible but I would be more concerned with susceptibility to common bacterial and fungal invaders.
Jim, There probably is a relationship between fungus and soil, also between the plants that the soil supports and therefore the fungi that inhabit those plants. This is not simply a two-way street but a multi-lane expressway with clover leaves and overpasses. Very complex and therefore exciting to study.
Donna, In my opinion, botanical gardens are supposed to be living collections and therefore could be appropriate for holding specimens where there is no possibility for reintroduction or even in establishing a preserve. The one major problem I see is maintaining care of the collection. This has to continue to a high standard for a very long time.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Marilyn, it would take an army of scientists several lifetimes to study all of that.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Marilyn - good session - do you need more time another night on this one?
bmtorchids (Barbara]
Thank you Marilyn, it was very interesting.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Nite Marilyn, pretty good discussion tonite.
Go Back to Index
TRANSCRIPT OF OPEN CHAT, 8 Oct 97
tom jordan
sparky, turn on the lights - it's chat time...
What's a hosta???
Josh319 (The hosta, pond, and orchid guy!!)
A perennial grown mainly for its leaves.
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
I was chatting with Fleur yesterday morning and she sent me a picture of her house, it is absolutely gorgeous. Fleur's House Pictures
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Tom , I've got a roll of film still in camera. Will take a while to develop and scan. Chockfull of animal pics and a few orchids too! I'll share it soon!
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Carol took some pictures of my plants Sunday when we returned from Speaker's Day, had them developed yesterday and gave them to Sparky hoping he can s can them for me. I just received a scanner but haven't even opened the box yet. I'm not sure I emotionally prepared to get frustrated.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Has any one had their pics scanned at the photo-developers? I've seen ads that they do that.
marilyninOttawa
We are having our native orchid pictures scanned using a software called Toast. We get good results but so far what I have been scanning is for archiving.
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Susan can't they develop them on a CD or something that will work on you CD RAM.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Susan, I did some checking here on scanning photos to disk at Kinkos. They wanted $10 per pic.
EmF31
Wow- $10 bucks a shot- wow.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Gail , I dunno. They offer to scan em then E-mail em to me. For a fee.
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Sam, that's awfully expensive.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
I know! I thought that was outragous!
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Susan, you could overnight them to someone with a scanner it would be cheaper I'm sure.
EmF31
My encyclia cordigera has initiated a spike! Yippee! Also, a dendrobium hybrid has spiked, first time since I got it.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Alright Em!
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
EmF, Neat!
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
I'm still waiting to see a spike on my dendrochilum.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
My Odm. grande is about to burst into bloom with 14 buds! I'm excited!
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
Do many of you subscribe to the Awards Quarterly?
1clay
Does anyone have an opinion on the use of seaweed extract on orchids? Greg Allikas extols its virtues on his e-zine, the O-Zone.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Hi gang. 1clay I use seaweed extract myself. Works great with newly repotted orchids, helps promote root growth, etc.
1clay
Lois, I'm rambling about here in cyberspace with the name of 1clay since it is the only thing that WBS would accept. Please know that 1clay is in fact Derek Marshall, here as I said I would be. How can I change my self into something better...how do people get URLs and names in parentheses?
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Seaweed is full of vitamins and minerals.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
1clay - hi, Derek! Easiest thing to do is to put your name and where you live in your tagline (it appears after the 1clay), and tells people where you are from...wanna try that?
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I've added 3 pictures to my website that include where I grow my outdoor orchids and a picture of me. Matt's homepage
KB Barrett
Jim, have you gotten your copy of 'Orchids' yet?
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
No, Kathy. Last month it finally arrived on the 16th!!!!!!
Richard in West Palm Beach
Two weeks from today I'll be on my way -- Bangkok here I come!!!
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
For those of you that subscribe to Orchid List Digest - what do you think of all this talk about hydroponics?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Matt - hydroponics was used in Altadena for phalaenopsis more than 50 years ago. They did very well!!
marilyninOttawa
I grow Dracuvallias hydroponically. As with anything, as long as the roots are adequately aerated, they will be fine.
Richard in West Palm Beach
Lois -- I almost sent a flower spike to Dallas yesterday -- then decided at the last minute that it might stand a better chance in Denver -- One of my Prra. Luke Thai plants -- 20 flowers and 3 buds on one spike. Nice apple green with bright blue lip. I will send the other one to WPB.
Richard, please feel free to send plants and/or cut inflorescences to Dallas. A person to receive the plants has not been appointed yet...so just send to me, I'll take and enter them.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Richard, Green with blue lips. I can't even picture it.
Evlyn
Could you send us a picture Richard?
Richard in West Palm Beach
No picture yet -- maybe later.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Matt, have a friend growing cyms in hydro and they are growing great. Couple of catts also doing great, 7 sheaths in an 8 inch pot.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I would be scared to try hydroponics. How do you support the plants?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Matt- I think that it is something that a commercial grower could do as I
think that it takes avery careful eye and a loty of testing to get the right combination of chemicals and nutrients.
PaphioDePaphio
Fred Hillerman from The Angraecum House was the guest speaker tonight at the MOS meeting.
bmtorchids (Barbara from Raining California)
Papho, how did you like Fred? I've never visit his GH, he is only about 70 miles from here.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Barbara - Our Board held a meeting in his house when he lived down here MANY years ago!!!!!!
dkburch
Paphio--did Hillerman have anything to say about Madagascar? Interesting article in the AOS Orchids this month.
PaphioDePaphio
dburch: Nope, he was only talking about hybridising of Angraecoids.
Barbara: Very nice, bought 4 species plant from him too.
sparky-steve (of Boca Raton, Florida)
Mainly cool growing arent they? I ate lunch with him and Gene Monnier (JEM)---signed 2 books for me! A friend and I took Fred around here in Florida---every greenhouse we went to and all he wanted to see was 'his 'type' of plants.
Fleur
Our Spring Show was held last weekend. I got a 2nd with my Dendrobium falcorostrum. What a perfume as well.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA), PaphioDePaphio, and JCY8S
Congrats Fleur!!!!!
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Donna, you already got Orchids. Mine is lucky to arrive by the 15th of the month!
PaphioDePaphio
Lots of beautiful pictures of species and hybrids, love it when there are lots of pictures.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Jim, mine almost always comes by the first or 2nd.
dkburch
Jim, mine was early this month. Can't figure it out either!
Evlyn
I was disgusted with the article on Phals--it could have been condensed into one column and thereby left room for something else.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I got mine today.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
John, used to get it within 1st 6 days, but this year it's been getting here later 'n later.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA):
Fleur I have my Dendrochilum magnum in bloom. I have taken pictures and will send them to Lois so we can all see them. It is VERY interesting being the largest of the genus (5/8 inch across x 1/2 inch high).
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
John, can't wait to see your Dendrochilum.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
The AOS had better start doing better or they are going to have a revolt on their hands!!!!
Fleur
I don't think I have seen that one John. Would love to though.
PaphioDePaphio
Anyone heard of Paph. spicerianum being fragrant?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Susan, the length of the flower part of the pendant spike is 12 inches!!
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Still waiting for my Orchids copy.
PaphioDePaphio
I have not receive my AOS mag yet, they are really late.
Evlyn
The AOS funds all this research, but the results are never put in the magazine??
dkburch
Ev, I agree. I think the Orchids is going downhill fast, and so do many other locals here. Too little substance and too much of people-praising and fund-raising! Time to go to a different church!
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
Evlyn - I disagree, I think it answers a lot of questions for beginners. Unfortunately, most beginners don't subscribe to Orchids until they are much more experienced.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Need to write to the editor of Orchids to voice opinions.
dkburch
Ev, the AOS funds research, but much of the results are published in Lindleyana,
which is the hard science publication of the AOS. ...a different church?
Fleur
I nominate LOIS. *grin* she needs something to do.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Donna, yeah and they use all of that scientific jargon I don't understand.
Evlyn
I don't suscribe to that magazine and have no intention of doing so. It ought to be one magazine--a ploy for more $
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
Try the Orchid Digest!!!
dkburch
Matt, I agree about Orchid Digest, looking good these days.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
They sell special copies where the entire magazine is dedicated to one Genus. The next issue is all about Draculas.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Matt, does Orchid Digest sell single sample copies?
[Orchid Digest sells back issues. Go to Orchid Digest homepage and click on "Order Back Issues"...the special issue on Draculas is $12.00 per copy (checklist with photos)...mlg]
Fleur
Surely not, Evlyn, just two magazines for two differing readers. Not everyone wants a technical journal.
Evlyn
I wrote to the AOS twice about about whether floriana was an encyclia or epi--never got an answer.
Fleur
Evlyn, did you write by e-mail? I'm sure no one ever checks it.
Evlyn
If we pay for it with our dues, it should be there for everyone to read .
bmtorchids
Also, I don't understand why they have to build such an expensive new building, they could use the money to send the Orchids first class.
marilyninOttawa
Congrats Fleur! Do you by any chance have a fragrance competition with your show?
KB Barrett
'Orchids' makes no bones about it changing to be more accessible to newer growers. There have been many compliants voiced on the OLD about how 'Orchids' Isn't publishing various studies because they are too highbrow for the beginner. I agree the emphasis seems to be on who has donated $400K to the new AOS building. Now all I read it for is the ads, actually for the rforchids specials...sick, I know!
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kathy - ads are VERY worthwhile. (and intriguing also).
KB Barrett
Well, I'll just have to call them (the AOS) on Friday and voice my concerns!!
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Kathy, be sure to call early, can be our time 7 a.m. and give them hell.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kathy - please speak for all of us and mention my name too if you want!!!!
It won't do any good, but try!!!
KB Barrett
I'll tell the Matt in Cucamonga, John in Arcadia, bmtorchids and Kawacym are all panting for their magazines!!!! Of course it would help if I had real names! Not to worry I'll make something up...(That's a joke I only need Matt's last name and he can send it to my email.
EquitantMan (Matt from Rancho Cucamonga, CA)
I got my 'Orchids' today.
peterlin
Hi all. I'm still waiting on my 'Orchids'
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Seems to becoming a favorite pastime of all of us, waiting on Orchids.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Matt, I'm here in Martinez, Jim and Kathy are almost neighbors.
marylois (NW Louisiana)
Good night, Marilyn - good session - do you need more time another night on this one?
marilyninOttawa
Lois, I am thinking of maybe a combined topic of the last two sessions. We have become focused on a few issues.
peterlin
I'm waiting on the buying opportunities.
KB Barrett
Well, maybe all of ours will arrive tomorrow, Matt.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Got down to 47 in my backyard this morn. Lucky I brought in the phals and catts yesterday.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Lucky I brought in the Cyms and D. kingianum last week!
marilyninOttawa
My ORCHIDS hasn't arrived yet either.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Barb, yes but I'm more of a distant neighbor. :-)
KB Barrett
I'm afraid I missed a buying opportunity. rf orchids had a really pretty Ascda in the Sep special, and by the time I made up my mind it was Oct already. I got my Orchids on the 25th last mo.
Fleur
Susan, Den kingianum doesn't mind a bit of cold. Mine are out all year round.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kathy - check his website. I think that he posts the specials there each month.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Kathy, you may be able to get one next weekend at the Orchids in the Park.
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Barb, Kathy you both going to OIP, which day? Thinking of going myself, not sure of day though.
KB Barrett
Barbara, I should know by tomorrow if he'll do it, I'll call again.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Peter, what's the number of plants in your GH now? Thousand?
peterlin
Barbara - about 1500 plants.. not many. If I'm lucky, I'll build another greenhouse next year.
KB Barrett
And how big is the GH?
peterlin
Kathy - you can buy Vanda from Dr. Motes in FL. He has wonderful plants.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Peter, that is many many for me. No wonder you have to repot all the time.
peterlin
My greenhouse is 17 x 23.
peterlin
Barbara - I'm having problem with bugs. I did not spray them earlier in the spring. Now I'm paying the price.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Peter, I have some Phals in the Dr. Wang's mud, they are doing soooooo great, I can't believe the size of the leaves and roots. [In previous chat, Barbara reports Dr. Wang's Mud is perlite, charcoal, peatmoss, and coconut fern...mlg] [Nope, no coconut fern, but you can add it if you want--KB]
KB Barrett
I know, Barbara.But occasionally they have blooming size plants, and I can't wait. I know, I must learn patience!!
peterlin
Dr Wang knows what he is doing.. I'm still taking the lazyman's approach..straight Pro-Mix HP..not fuss about mixing with other stuff.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
That's bad news Peter, best take care now before you lose all the Phals.
KB Barrett
Peter uses a mud too, or am I wrong? HP or Promix?
bmtorchids (Barbara)
How much you pay for the Pro-mix?
KB Barrett
What kind of bugs?
peterlin
I've been buying plants far too often and did not take good care to inspect new purchases.. As I repot my plants, I treated the bug problem..scales..mealies..etc.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
The mud I use I buy it from a local member, its mixed and bagged, so it's easy for me too.
Several said good-bye - some stayed and chatted another hour!
sparky-steve
see you all at the Sat-Chat!!!!!!
KB Barrett
Night, Sparky, it must have been a long day! You usually click off the lights!
peterlin
Kathy - Yes, I use Promix HP (HP = High Porous..I think)..It contains lots of perlite. [Yes, HP is recommended...mlg]
peterlin
I got Promix in compressed bags from a wholesale place locally...it's about $20 per bag...fairly cheap.
KB Barrett
Yes, doesn't that just tick you off!! That's how I got some mites! Really had a heck of a time getting them under control! Now the plants are ruined for showing until these wrecked leaves are gone.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Kathy it is getting to be very difficult to find the bark now days, all I got were junk.
Kathy, did the dunking do it for you?
peterlin
It's inevitable..more plants crowded together yields undetected bugs... and they multiply very quickly in the summer time...
PaphioDePaphio
Barbara: My Phrag. schlimii 'Wilcox' is in spike.. :-)
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Wonderful, Paphio, I had one it die on me. The flowers never stay more the 2 days tho.
KB Barrett
I had attempted to put some cut up moss into my regular bark/perlite/coalmix. It worked ok for the phals, but the paphs aren't happy. Ed told me the moss is too acidic for the paphs. Next time I'll try putting some calcium of some sort as a topdressing on the paphs. [Dolomite lime -- or crushed oyster shells, Kathy...mlg]
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
I ordered a lot of bark mix from Sunshine growers supply. Looks pretty good.
KB Barrett
Yes, the dunking in Kelthane followed by Orthenex did the trick.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Be careful what you put with the moss Kathy chemicals can kill it.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Have you talk to Ed lately? I wonder how he's doing. I miss him here.
[Ed and Kathy were at the SWROGA Show in Corpus Christi. He's recovering...but the time he can spend seated in front of a computer is limited, so his consulting work gets done...not chat...mlg]
PaphioDePaphio
Barbara: Mine bloomed in January this year for more than 2 1/2 months...And in spike again...It also put out 5 new growths this summer...
KB Barrett
I'm tempted to try the Wang mix, but with the amount of moss in it I'm afraid that I won't be able to rewet it well once it dries out, and I know I'll let it dry out.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Where is Sunshine, Susan? I always get it here, we have some big nurseries.
here.
KB Barrett
Fleur, ya know, I don't think it ever is alive over here. Its just a hay colored bud like mass. I only notice it get green when algae grows on it! You're lucky to live near the source.
PaphioDePaphio
I need some help with Phals... die on me all the time...
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Kathy, the peat moss keeps the water very well. Use plastic pot. I use the paper pot and doing good.
KB Barrett
Ed has been recovering from knee surgery, so hasn't been around. I know, I miss him too.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Barbara , Sunshine is in Fla. Good prices. The shipping to Oregon was expensive, but the decent prices made up for it. They're listed in the Orchid Mall.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
If you have Phal question, Peter is the one you want to ask.
Fleur
Yes, Kathy, no one has access to living moss.
KB Barrett
But Barbara, you're in a GH...how's it work under lights? It's been really dry here in this room (Until today!!) like 27% humidity. I worry about overwatering when I water daily.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Susan, I will keep getting the bark locally, if I pay for freight it'll be for vandas, not bark.
My GH I been keeping it at 70%. Since it been cold, the heater comes on, I have to turn it even higher.
PaphioDePaphio
I got a really cool looking plant tonight... actually 4 plants, but one of them is really cool looking... Cyrtorchis crasifolia.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Paphio, Peter have about 1,500 Phals.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Barbara. No place round here to buy bark locally, otherwise I would too (Funny, I live surrounded by Douglass fir forest, in a lumber mill town, and I have to get my fir bark from FLORIDA!)
peterlin
Not exactly. 98% are phals, I have some Cattleyas, Vandas, and couple miserable looking Paphs.
KB Barrett
Fleur, then what do you mean when you say chemicals can kill it? If even you don't get living moss? I had thought that at some time in the mythical past sphagnum moss came in a dried yet still able to be revived state. (I suppose once again I'm wrong.) So, therefore, I thought that chemicals could kill the moss. Can you amplify your response?
PaphioDePaphio
Barbara: Wow. I had to give all my Phal away, only 2 left, a Phal.gigantea seedling, and a Phal. Mahalo FCC/AOS seedling. They are actually surviving.
peterlin
Barbara - I sold Cym. Golden Elf 'Sunshine' this past weekend. I bought it because I wanted to see how fragrant it is..and to see if I may appreciate the leafy look...
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: I like Paph.. hehehe...
peterlin
Paphio - how large is your phal. gigantea??
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Kathy, how about building a tent over the tray. This way you can cover them in the day time.
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: Do you have any Phal to sell?
KB Barrett
I'm sorry to sound so dumb, Fleur, but all I know is what I read in books, what I've learned on the internet, and what Barbara tells me!
Fleur
Yes Kathy dried moss can be revived, it contains spoors that will regenerate the moss. Once it starts to grow it can be killed by things like epsom salts, etc. I only use organic fertiliser and such.
peterlin
Paphio - Paphs don't do well under my care, or neglect. I thought paph should grow well with phals, because both do not require much light.
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: too shy to tell you... small... about 10 inches.... 10 more years to go....before I get to see any flower... that is if it doesn't die before that.
Peter: Ah.... maybe they would do well for you if you give them more light. I give my Paph alot of light.
KB Barrett
Barbara, well, now that I've got the temp GH I'm sold on getting a real one. BOY is it easy to WATER!! As a matter of fact, if you don't tell Joe, I'll probably build two.
peterlin
Paphio: Yes, I have some phals to sell
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Peter that sounds like a Chinese dish.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Paphio, this one should tolerate a bit more heat due the infracta parentage.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
I wonder if Lois can ship some to you, they don't weight much. [Can check it out, but cannot imagine Tasmania allowing it in...will do, if possible...stuff in the wild is full of critters...going to kill it spraying
it at port...mlg]
peterlin
Paphio: I bought 43 Phal. Mok Chow Yew. They are now potted in teak basket. I sold one already but I am not planning on selling the rest (yet). These are from a very good cross according to Mark Rose.
PaphioDePaphio
Fleur: That was what I was told, and it is in flower now, so pretty. And when I checked on it tonight, it had a new spike, I'm so happy, I hope it will do well for me.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Well if she brings it back with her in Feb next year she can take some with her. *grin*
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: Awww, how much do they sell for? also the violecea alba, how much do they normally sell for?
Fleur (Tasmania)
Can one of you send me some Spanish Moss to look at and try to grow?
peterlin
I am replacing my Vanda with phals...hehehe... I sold a lovely V. (Bud Mellott X Gordon Dillon) that I purchased from Fuchs Orchids earlier this year. It bloomed in Jan 97..and it bloomed again now with 2 spikes.. I took a picture of it before I sold it.. I'll share as soon as the slides are ready.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
I have live Spanish moss hanging off most of my baskets. Love the stuff!
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: If you have an extra piece of Mok for sale please let me know. I like hard to find plants.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Fleur, I can send you some in an envelope. However, you'll have to send me your address again, I lost all when I had that trouble.
Fleur (Tasmania)
I have to go, I promised Mal I would go out to the house this afternoon and it's 3.30 already.
KB Barrett
Sure, send me your snail mail address and I'll send you some. To
my email
peterlin
Paphio: Phal. M.C.Y is not hard to find but they are extremely slow growing, just like Phal. gigantea. So imagine my surprise walking into Mark's greenhouse with 40+ plants in bloom...so needless to say I hog all of them.
prankster d (Susan from Oregon)
Fleur, I'd be willing to send you some, but is it complicated to send living stuff over seas?
Fleur (Tasmania)
OK Barbara, I will send you the address, the old one is no good anymore.
bmtorchids (Barbara)
Peter, I have that Vanda...lovely blooms.
PaphioDePaphio
Peter: Can't you spare one of the small one to me? Just curious, if you were to sell one of them...how much would you sell it for?
peterlin
Barbara - You do too?? It is lovely...looks very much like V. sanderiana...I made a good profit for bringing the plant to bloom with 2 spikes.
KB Barrett
Peter, I've been interested in trying to grow Phals in baskets. In Orchids there was an article from Soroa orchids where he talked about just putting them in a basket turned on its side. Do you use anything as a pottting medium in yours? Do you put yours on the side or leave them straight up? Soroa put them on the side to shed water and keep crown rot down.
peterlin
Paphio: I sold one plant for $100.. BTW, Mok Chow Yew is a parent of this plant.
Kathy - I use sphagnum moss in basket. They are looking well. I do put mine on the side so that water will not accumulate in the crown.. This is why most of my phal. species are mounted.. These gigantea hybrids are just huge..I have to hang them in basket...otherwise...no room.
KB Barrett
Peter, what size basket? whatever will comfortably hold the roots? I was hoping that by putting them into a basket I could cut down on repotting and bark and all that mess and bother. Of course I couldn't do this until I got the GH together, they'd REALLY dry out under my present conditions.
peterlin
Kathy: I use 4 inch all the way to 8 inch basket for phals.. For Cattleyas..I use 10 inch basket.
KB Barrett
Ed Wright had a trick of placing the Sphagnum in a cut panty hose, knotting it into a ball, and then tucking that around the roots. We were talking about vandas at the time. But that trick has really worked well for my
vandas, providing more consistent moisture to the roots thru the day. Plus the moss is contained and doesn't slop everywhere when watering or dunking.
[Robert Fuchs says your vandas take up all the water they are going to take up in 20 minutes...so much for long watering. But the "moss ball" trick would keep moisture available. Interested in hearing more about your vandas, Kath...mlg]
peterlin
Kathy: Yes, that's the idea...Phal. gigantea does not like to be disturbed...so I put them in basket.
Kathy - I use panty hose to mount my phals to tree fern or cork plaque...But I prefer window screen now.. Panty hose is good because it will stretch more easily...but algae grows on it.
KB Barrett
Your GH must be pretty moist all the time to be able to grow in baskets!
peterlin
Kathy - Yes, my Vanda and Ascda bloom like crazy. These plants are so easy to grow. All I did was to water them everyday. My awarded Ascda is on its 4th blooming.
KB Barrett
Do you tie the base of the stem to the basket? (like a Vanda) or do you elevate it slightly?
peterlin
Kathy - I do not tie my phals to the basket.. I pot the moss pretty tight so that the phal do not fall out of the basket...also, I use basket that is the right size for the root mass.
KB Barrett
Thanks Peter!
peterlin
Well, it's almost midnight..I guess I should get some rest too so that I won't really get sick tomorrow. Good night Kathy, it was nice chatting with you again.
KB Barrett
Didn't you have a heck of a time getting your contractor to build your GH right?
peterlin
Yes, my greenhouse project was a nightmare...I'll tell you all about it next time.
Everyone "poofed", and the room was dark and quiet.
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