COLD WEATHER GREENHOUSES
Present were: 31 (record attendance, I believe ...and interest so high, chat it continued on topic after Bill had left - the full night's chat is included here)
Emily
Susan
Lois
John
Bill Heckeroth
Richard WPB
Wilford Neptune
Barbara
Carol
RW Candor
Weaver73
Sparky
Tom Jordan
Neo falcata 1
Mike
Greg Allikas
Gordon
Rick
Ken
Clare
RedFernNH
Judy
Rayma
Mark
PeterLin
Sam
Sibby Jean
Magda
Jason
Harold
Jim Kawasaki
marylois
Hello, there! It's OrchidSafari time all over the world! *grin* Topic tonight is Bill Heckeroth with 'Cold Weather Greenhouses' He should be here any minute - if we synchronized our watches correctly - if not, in an hour from now.
wgh1158
Hi Lois, I think I am here (Bill)
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Welcome to OrchidSafari. Bill, nice of you to come.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Nep and others -- let's all put our 'friendly name' and our location in the 'your tagline' box -- much easier to keep up with one another that way.
wgh1158
Thanks everyone, from cold Colorado, windy, temp dropping and expecting snow tomorrow.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Program beginning right now, folks - Bill will want to say a few words, and will entertain questions.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Good Evening Everyone from Cold Colorado, Lois asked if I could stop by and entertain you with my experience in growing in colder climates. I'm open to discussion or questions!
Clare in LA
OK Bill, I'm very interested in cold weather gh. I'll be moving to 54 North in a few years and am seriously considering building down to get some of the earth's radiant heat. Care to comment?
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
What is the range of your winter temperatures, Bill?
prankster d (Susan from N.E.Oregon)
Bill, How do you deal with cold? Grow cold loving orchids? Spend a mint on heating? Tell us about your set up.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
A little background, I'm south of Denver at 5700 feet where it gets way below zero for about a week every year and some snow. The coldest I've seen here is -33 deg F.
drroot
Hi, Bill, I live in Maine and definitely need to learn about cold weather growing.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I built the greenhouse myself basically designing it to maximize heat retention rather easier to cool in the summer than to heat in the winter and cheaper too.
Clare in LA
And how were you able to maximize the heat, Bill?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
The greenhouse in not large, 13 x 16 but very insulated. All the transparent walls are fiberglass with a sublayer of UV plastic (heavy duty stuff) 4 inches below. This gives an effective R value of about 7. All walls that do not see the sun and also below the benches are fully insulated with R11.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
The last time we visited my husband's cousin in Aruora, I remember the snow. I guess you are south, it's not as bad.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
What did you insulate with on the walls that do not see sun?
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Hi Bill, What is the day, night temp range that your greenhouse experiences and how much heat do you need in order to maintain a reasonable range?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
The shade cloth is located inside the greenhouse rather than outside so I capture that heat inside. I also worked out the calculations for heat loss, doubled them and bought that size heater. The greenhouse maintains 58 degrees even when it's 30 below. It added about 30-40 dollars to my gas bill in the winter. Very reasonable.
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Bill, Did you consider plastic twin wall as an alternative to the fibreglass?
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
So your greenhouse is plumbed for natural gas?
Clare in LA
Bill, does the fiberglass and heavy plastic interfer with light? Do you need extra lights?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Acutally, we do get more snow than Aurora but about 1-2 inches each average snow. I'm higher in elevation. During the day, the cooler clicks in at 85 degrees.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Do you give supplemental lighting?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Bill - did you dig your GH into the ground so that ther walls below the benches are below ground?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
No problem with light, being this high in altitude, the light is much more intense than sea level. I did consider the double plastic twin wall but it did not seem to trade well with cost. Also I have a friend who has it on his greenhouse and the hail just demolishes it. We are the hail capital of the world here. The fiberglass may star from the hail but it does not break.
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Bill, I'm also wondering (and you may have already stated this but before I got on), did you dig the GH into the ground at all or does it set on the ground?
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
How many plants do you have in that area Bill and how high is the structure ??
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
The greenhouse is not dug in, but that was more for expense. I think if I could have afforded it at the time, I would have dug it in about 3 feet.
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Hmmm, Good thing that we don't have hail here or I would be in trouble. Thanks for the tip.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Bill, that was the way the greenhouses were at Charlesworth in England. It seemed great for their odonts.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I must have 500 plants in there, a lot are seedlings. I would guess 300 mature flowering plants. I don't remember for sure but I believe the roof peak is 13 feet? I need to check.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Rick we have earthquakes.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Bill, did you build this greenhouse completely from scratch yourself?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
By the way, on the double wall plastic, I think the new stuff out will handle at least the small-med hail. I have found hail in my lawn over 2 inches in diameter. Got a new roof on the house over that storm but the greenhouse survived just fine.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I designed and built the greenhouse, except for the framing which I had a contractor do. How bad is the earthquake?
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Barb, the foundation on my greenhouse pretty much protects it from earthquakes because of the way in which I reinforced it. I would be more worried about hail.
Clare in LA
Bill, what type of plants are you growing?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Bill, wouldn't the saran outside of the GH help stop the breakage?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I specialize in Paph's (mostly species and primaries) and Mini-cattleyas but have small amounts of Odonts, Lycastes, Phals and Onc.
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Hail can be VERY damaging. I can recall renting a car in Dallas once that had been in a hail storm. It looked like someone took a ball-peen mechanics hammer to the car. What a mess!
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
So with a 13 t peaked roof you're talking about a pretty good volume of space to heat. You use natural or LP gas?
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Bill, do find that you get good growth from the Phals. with the temps down in the 60's?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I am fortunate to have natural gas here at the house. I also do run two oscillating fans in the greenhouse constantly. I am a big fan of random air movement.
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
As I recall Bill you also have a very nice C. bicolor...let me know when you're ready to cut her up.
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Bill, do you use single layered shelving or multi-layered shelving? With a 13 ft high roof, you have a lot of height.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Yes, I have 4 fans in my GH, one at each corner.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
My Phals do OK but I have them directly under the heater so they get some direct radiant heat from the heater. They do flower every year for me but the growth and flower count is not spectacular. If my wife didn't love them so, they would all magically turn into Paphs.
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
No problem with bud blast from ethylene?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I use single shelfing for the benches but have some plants hanging and use solid walls also. By the way on the solid walls, they are insulated with R11 wall insulation then covered with bath board for the water.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Since you have many Paphs, do you keep the humidity high, or they sit in water?
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
So, the walls are solid and insulated and it's the roof that allows the light?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado
I have not had a problem yet with ethylene and the heater. Of course the heater is fully vented outside. And with the exhaust vents and the swamp cooler inlet, there is enough fresh air to ensure good combustion.
Clare in LA ( (nothing worse than a wet smelly dog))
So in effect you are taking advantage of little microclimates in the gh.
NativeOrchid (Carol, Wash. D. C.)
Bill, with the extreme temp differential between outside and inside, how do you handle the condensation? Is it a problem. How is your humidity to maintain. I'm thinking of that dry, mountain air!
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
The humidity stays naturally between 50 and 70%. I think its just from plant transpiration and evaporation. I do suppliment the swamp cooler with a misting nozzle right after the inlet. The light bearing walls are transparent down to the bench level. They are insulated below that. The north wall is solid.
tomjordan (From Sunny Boca Raton,Fla)
Can anyone locate a C.leopoldii, willing to spend $$$$$$$$$ big.
Clare in LA ((What El Nino?))
I'm hoping our friend from Maine will join in with questions or ideas.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I do definitely take advantage of the microclimates of the greenhouse. The R. digbyana's are all handing or high up the walls. The few odonts and Masd's and right in the direct line of a fan, etc.
Neo.falcata1
I know where seedlings are of C. leopoldii.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Bill, do you summer plants out doors? Or keep them in and incur cooling costs?
runnerRick (Rick in Concord, CA. Diablo View OS, AOS)
Bill, it sounds like a pretty well thought out environment. How long has it been in service?
drroot
Clare, I am still here. Am just a novice and do all of my growing in the house - two small greenhouse windows and a new garden room.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I also adjust the temperatures that the cooler clicks in depending upon the season. In the summer its set about 75 degrees but in reality with the shade cloth inside, etc, when it gets real hot the greenhouse gets up to 85-88. In the winter its set to about 83 to allow the sun and warmth to build up inside.
Clare in LA
Bill, has your collection mostly been in Denver? What I'm trying to say is did you have to acclimatize them in some way for your current growing conditions?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I keep all plants here inside. We do get the nasty grasshoppers in the summer that will eat anything tasty. Occassionally one will get in the greenhouse and eats anything it lands on. The greenhouse has been in operation about 8 years now.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Grasshoppers are terrible. They have been ruining all of my roses this summer.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Yes, I get those nasty grasshoppers in the hot summer too, they can eat fast too.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I admit it, I started in California (LA area), but moved about 300 plants with me here. I grew for two years under lights in the basement, found that unsatisfactory and finally got off my rear and got the greenhouse built. They plants seemed to require no adjustment and the growth change was readily noticable.
I also had mice one year and got rid of them fast. I found a snake this year but left him hoping he was eating everything else.
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Biil, wait until you have big gray rats!! They eat EVERYTHING and are hard to get rid of once they discover they greenhouse!!!!
Clare in LA
Drroot is from Maine. The 54 North that I was referring to is the Isle of Man.
devinest (Judy in Jupiter)
Was the snake in your greenhouse, Bill? This morning, en route to mine, I almost stepped on a 30+ inch Coral snake. That'll really get your blood pumpin'!
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I guess I should also mention that all of the benches are located next to the solid walls. The one spot I have plants next to a transparent wall, I did put up an additional layer of plastic to ensure good insulation for the plants. Whenit gets really cold, I have actually had frost develop on the inside of the second layer of plastic. I really have not had a problem with condensation.
Clare in LA ((Moving the animals into the Ark now))
Bill, you've given me some confidence in the idea that I can move my collection to colder climes.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Fortunately my snake was a run-of-the-mill garden variety. We also have the huge bull snakes which is good cause the eat the rattlesnakes.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
I grow in a cold place, in a sun porch attached to my kitchen. Condensation in the grow room and throughout my house is a problem!
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Ed Wright had a great article in this winter's issue of the SWROGA News re: applying detergent to the inside of the greenhouse to eliminate drip -- I'll ask him if I can put it up on the Archive page. [It is an
attachment. See below...mlg]
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Clare, glad I could help. I found it really is not that hard. Of course now I have the problem of running out of space and thinking how I could expand... or maybe move and build a much larger greenhouse.
drroot
Clare I have purchased plants from different locations - Hawaii, Florida, South Carolina, Illinois, Massachusetts - Some experience a set back and some do not.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
It is possible that as far as condensation, having the shade cloth inside the greenhouse intercepts the drips before they reach the plants. I never really thought about it.
Clare in LA
And I was going to ask that kind of question next. I realize we never have a big enough gh, and you would have liked to have built below ground, was there anything else you wished you had done?
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
We all do that Bill. We're dreaming of our annex too.
devinest (Judy in Jupiter)
Does anyone heat with a kerosene heater?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Actually, the biggest problem I have ever had was one year the humidity did cause the lock and the door to freeze shut. I could not get into the greenhouse until the sun came back out to heat the door a little (2 days later).
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Yeah, I get ice build up on the INSIDE of the door to outside.
Clare in LA
Admit it Bill, your little orchid friends locked you out. Now I've got that problem with earthquakes, jams the door.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
What type of shade cloth you use, 50% or 70%. Don't they intensify the heat in the summer time?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
The only other thing I wished I done was built it larger from the start. You always find ways to fill it up shortly. The few people here I know that have tried kerosene had had tremendous problems with ethylene. The kerosene heaters need real good ventilation and still do not burn real clean.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
The door is not insulated.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I think the shade cloth is 60%. It does make it hotter but it was cheaper operate and to buy a larger swamp cooler than larger heater. Fans and water pumps are very cheap to operate and with our very dry air here in the Summer, the swamp cooler is very efficient.
The door I use on the greenhouse is a standard house foam filled door.
Clare in LA
If I might veer off the GH for a minute, Bill, I'm interested in how you transported your orchids from CA to CO and what additional care you had to give them enroute if any?
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Yes Bill, swamp coolers are great for dry climates. I have used one for 40 years here in So Cal.
[While not really efficient in the muggy South, they are appreciated as an alternative to air conditioning...would consider air conditioning when I won the lotter!...mlg]
devinest (Judy in Jupiter)
So, Bill, what's your recommendation for heating your greenhouse if the power fails? Last winter I almost lost myself, not to mention my collection, with a nasty little problem with propane gas. Don't want to try "that" again.
Clare in LA
I've been toying with the idea of putting pvc pipes under the benches and attaching to the water heater so the hot water can throw off some heat. Does this seem crazy?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I was fortunate in that my work required me to travel frequently to LA, so every trip I would pack 50 to 100 plants and check them as luggage. I think I only ended up driving out with about 100 plants in the station wagon when we finally did move. I was fortunate that a friend here in Colorado gave me some bench space in her greenhouse until I got settled.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Gail, what is used to keep cold out, also helps keep it cool inside in hot weather.
Clare in LA
Bill, that was indeed fortuitous. I saw you with a U-Haul with your wife in the back misting with a spray bottle!
JCY8S (John in Arcadia CA)
Clare, I had a friend that used an old car radiator hooked up to a water heater and then placed a fan behind it. It was great for the paph house which they kept fairly cool.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
My backup in the case of a power failure is a small propane heater I move into the greenhouse. It is not large but should be enough to keep plants from freezing. My philosophy at that point is survival. Hot water heat works well for some people. They put in a boiler and copper plumbing with radiators in the
greenhouse. I nice, soft gentle heat.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
My biggest fear is the loss of electric in the summer, the weather is 102 degrees out side, in the GH, the plants will fry in no time.
Clare in LA
That's a good idea too, John. I'll put that in my notebook for consideration.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
I have hot water heat -- still have to keep kerosene heaters for emergency.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I keep thinking I should post some pictures and info on my web pages about the greenhouse and growing here but work keeps getting in the way.
emddvm11 (Mike near Memphis)
What happens if your heat goes out when you are not home and no one is there to start the propane heater?
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Bill, I'd LOVE to see pictures of your operation! (prod!)
devinest (Judy)
Ah, so. If there's plenty of ventilation, kerosene shouldn't be a problem, right?
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I am fortunate that we have good power here. We get a power interruption about once every three years or so. That is not counting the minutes interruptions when we have thunderstorms and lightning. I am right by the creek and get lots of lightning stikes all around us. The power recovers fairly quickly.
EmF31 (It was 64 here today)
Are there any greenhouse manufacturers online? Am seeking info for future purchase.
Clare in LA
Barbara, that's my major fear as well. I just try to be pragmatic about it and say 'room for more', but my collection is not expensive.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
If I'm not at home, teens are gone and no neighbors around by phone, I'm really in trouble.
Clare in LA
And I hope Lois posts your web page site for future reference.
[Bill's webpage is at http://www.earthnet.net/~wgh/Orchids.html...mlg]
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
We are all easily became slaves to our orchids
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
I tried putting plastic up last year against a few cool days, didn't work too well, needs a man's touch!
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I actually did have a power failure last summer, the one that knocked out most of the west. My only casualty was the leaves of one of the cattleyas hanging. It dropped them all but kept right on growing with new growths.
devinest (Judy in Jupiter)
I remember the March blizzard of '93 which moved through Florida and on up through Georgia, the Carolinas and parts north. A lot of friends lost power and their entire collections. Remember, Clare? It's good to have a back-up plan.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
I forgot who asked but with regards to the C. bicolor, it steadfastly puts out one growth per year, nice and slow. It really should be warmer than my greenhouse.
Clare in LA
Yes, Judy, those were sad OA times. That, and that chemical we were using (starts with a B).
devinest (Judy in Jupiter)
Gail, my husband and I put up plastic in a few hours last week. We attached pieces of rope around the top of the house and then stapled sheets of poly in sections. Then we just rolled it up and tied the sheets in place. Now, when cold weather hits, all we have to do is untie the rope and anchor the poly at the bottom. It certainly won't keep out all of the chill, but it'll be better than nothing, I hope.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Well, it has gotten quiet. Everyone in welcome to stop by my web pages. There are tons of pictures from the collection and some plants for trade (that has not been updated for months) Heckeroth's Orchids
graphicgreg (happy in sunny Florida)
It was I who asked about the bicolor Bill. They grow fine down here...send her down for some R&R.
Clare in LA
Lois, may I ask about your hot water heater set up?
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
I do have set up for emergency generator, but if I'm not home, the weather is very hot, I'm doomed.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
My direst emergencies have been in summer, plants outside. Dry, hot winds.... If I miss a misting, they might be toast.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Side note Lois, I think I will be off to Jakarta in a few weeks. I'm trying to decide if I should take a side trip for a day or so. Any ideas....my backup is Bali, but not for orchid hunting.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Yes, I'll have to check on brandname, but it is a 2 x 2-1/2 x 3/4 foot boiler that is attached to the laundry room wall, next to the hot water heater. It heats its own water, however, and sends hot water thru underground (about 18 inches) pcv pipe to the greenhouse (about 18 feet away). The greenhouse is outfitted with hot water pipes with fins...it runs around the circumference of the greenhouse and also makes a loop under the center bench. Works like a charm.
gaillevy (Boca Raton, FL.)
Judy, my plants are on the patio, it has an aluminum frame. Was thinking of
having someone put up wood strips so that I could staple up a heavy plastic. Job for the handyman! The pool helps a little with the temp.
Clare in LA
Bill, you got lots of questions from us CA folk, who bear the brunt of 102 to 35 and below!
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Ideas, Bill - wellll - I'm a pretty good secretary! *grin*
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
There are some boiling natural hot springs near me. What I wouldn't give!
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Clare.. or us in NE that have 102 to -35!
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Clare, there are times I really miss L.A. with all of the Orchids and show I do make it back occassionally on business and try to make judging.
Sam had the additional problem in the winter in that all the snow blows horizontally. If he opens the door to a grenhouse, you end up with a drift at the back end.
Clare in LA
Lois, THAT'S IT!! You're in my notebook too. In a few years I'm going to be ready to bloom these big bloomers across the pond assuming I get through all the phytosanitary and CITES stuff.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Bill, if you like, send me some pix of your greenhouse and a few favorite plants with a bit of narrative and I'll put it up on our 'Members' Growing Areas' homepage.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
LOL, Bill I know what you mean. You'd be lucky sometimes to get the door shut!
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Sam I have the same problem with the strong wind some time, I'm on top of hill, some time I think my GH going to take off.
wgh1158 (Bill from Parker, Colorado)
Well, everyone, I guess I will retire also. I need to help my wife clean for a house full tomorrow. Thanks for the opportunity to share and everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Lois...Is that up and running?
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Bill, Thanks much! Good Thanksgiving!
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Bye, Bill
Clare in LA
And I really like the idea of putting the saran inside the gh. I bet that would lessen the deterioration from the light.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Last year I thoroughly caulked the double glazed windows of my sun porch growing area. Made quite a difference!
Clare in LA
Huuummm, so now I need a sunken gh with a covered access way to prevent horizontal snow.
bmtorchids (Barbara from rainy Calif.)
Clare, in our part of country, you have to have the shade cloth outside, and with 6 - 8 inch in between the GH top and shade cloth to cut down on the heat.
Clare in LA
Thanks Bill, got lots of ideas for what will be.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
That's what I need too Clare. Only place mine at the well spring of a really hot thermal spring!
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
I have shadecloth on the outside - feel it helps protect from hail. It's a plain black net shadecloth. Understand the new aluminized shadecloths are MUCH better cause they relflect sun. I also put a white cloth shadecloth on the inside over the Phals during the summer months.
emddvm11 (Mike near Memphis)
Marylois, Where is there any information on the aluminized shadecloths.
[...it's Aluminet. I bought mine from Green-Tek tel: 608-884-9454. The last time I ordered some they had sales people they wanted me to order through instead of direct. It comes in 50% or 60% shading and widths of 6, 12, or 26 feet. In 1994 it was .33 (I guess that's per sq. foot) or $27.72 for a 6 foot by 14 foot piece. It's expensive, but lasts and does cut down on heat...Carol Holdren]
Clare in LA
Susan. do you have access to the thermal?
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Bye to all leaving - and Happy Thanksgiving!
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Clare , I kick myself...Had a chance to buy property with a hot spring on it. Had a sauna built over the spring head. Turned it down! (kicking me now).
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Andy Easton in Rotorua NZ heats with his hot springs.
Clare in LA
Susan, just sell everything and move to Iceland, or maybe Mammoth and join the earthquake crowd.. Bill was talking about his need for saran due to his elevation. I wonder if I'll need it at sea level.
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Hello all, sorry I am late.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
This same propety was plumbed with very hot water from a well. When one sat on the, ah, comode, one got a warm strange feeling on one's backside from the hot steam.
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Hi, Harold...*giggles* Susan - the 'Hot Seat'!
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
A hot seat indeed! (disconcerting, like hot breath!)
kawacym (Jim in San Jose, Ca.)
Yeah, Susan, are you sure it was the spring that was causing the warm feeling? LOL
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Should I not be listening to this? Get off of there, Susan.
prankster d (Susan from (COLD) N.E.Oregon)
Heeheeheeee! Harold, Why? You want a turn?!!
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Sure, I'll take a turn, move over.
Clare in LA
Now, Harold, do you suffer from huge fluctuations in temps like Sam in Nebraska?
marylois (in NW Louisiana)
Maybe one step above, Clare.
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
No, Clare, no fluctuations at all. Just observing.
Clare in LA
Well, it's time to put the booties on Bandit and go walkies. Hope all of you have a lovely Thanksgiving, and that someone volunteers to do the dishes.
The room was vacated with Thanksgiving wishes reverberating from the walls!
Happy Thanksgiving, one and all!
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