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Present were 27:
Bob Gordon (Phals)
Barbara (California)
Sparky Steve
Josh
Lois
KB Barrett
Marla
PoorPaul
BarbJA (Wisconsin)
Melanie (Phal)
Harold
Sam
Matt
MaryLou
Ed
Leslie
Jerry (JR000)
foxtail
Chuck
Karen T
Fleur
Mickey
Mike
Jim (KAWACYM)
Andy
Evlyn
weaver73
bmtorchids (Barbara, Diablo View Orchid S.)
Bob, all my Phals are doing well so far, all in spike and 50% are in bloom already.
Phals (Bob Gordon = Phals for this entire discussion - KB)
Barb...if you have 50% in spike, don't listen to me or anyone else. Keep doing whatever you're doing.
Josh319 (The hosta, pond, and orchid guy!!)
Bob -- I certainly need help with my phals!!! I only have three (one bs and two seedlings), but I don't have a spike on the mature one, yet. I have my phal in a west facing garden window. It dips to about 59 at night and gets up to about 72 during the day. Is this a good enough temp difference to get a spike?
bmtorchids (Barbara, Diablo View Orchid S.)
Thanks Bob, my GH does get lots of light and I think that may contribute to the good spiking.
Phals
Barbara...if you have good light, all other good things will follow.
bmtorchids (Barbara, Diablo View Orchid S.)
Bob, sometimes I wonder if it's too much light for the Phals. The GH is in full sun all day long, I try to keep the shade cloths on the Phal side all year around. Most the the leaves are light green, some red too.
Phals
Barbara...Start with too much and go from there. Try reducing the light by 10% and see if you get an improvement in size of flowers. Increase in numbers is unlikely.
bmtorchids (Barbara, Diablo View Orchid S.)
Will try that, Bob. I have 8 in full bloom right now, all are dark pink to deep red.
KB Barrett
Bob, what's your policy on people quoting from your books in their orchid society newsletters? We are trying to attract and keep new members in the Diablo View Orchid Society, and I was going to write something for the newbies, but do some quoting from one of your books. How do you feel about that?
Should I email you the parts I want to quote for your permission?
Phals
KB...quote anything, but give attribution. I don't need to see what you're quoting. I'm flattered.
KB Barrett
Thanks Bob! You have such succinct ways of putting things, they are a joy to read.
Phals
KB...I still have difficulty accepting that anyone wants to quote me on anything. Faye only wants to know when we're going out to eat.
orchidnut
I can't help it..I really like this one. Has everyone seen this?
bmtorchids (Barbara, Diablo View Orchid S.)
That is toooo nice, picture or painting? and whose? Where?
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
It's an oil on canvas.....www.artandprints.com/orchid.htm
KB Barrett
Before we actually begin I'd just like to put in a plug for the new site by the Jamaica Orchid Society, they have a list of links that won't quit. http://www.fp-webs.com/jamaicaorchidsociety/
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
I know you are all interested in Bob's books, and likely have a couple - for a complete listing, go to his homepage at http://www.js-net.com/orchid. Please bookmark it for future reference.
Phals
Starting? We've been on for 45 minutes, at least some of us have. I had an inquiry from a grower on Long Island today. Has some blooms that are maturing early. Suggested he have his heater checked for leaks.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Bob, I'm not sure if this is off the topic tonight, but I have a question on seeds.
Phals
Seeds are not my long suit, but I have opinions on everything...just like Ed.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Ok!...How much truth to the statement that viable seeds sink, and non-viable ones float?
Phals
Sam...sorry, don't know. Ed? At large: Does anyone know the answer to Sam's question about viable seeds sinking and non-viable floating; I don't.
JR000 (JRodder)
I don't know about sinking seeds but one way is to place the seeds in alcohol and observe them with a microscope.
LeslieV1
So Bob, do you think there will ever be a true red Phal?
Phals
Leslie... a true red (scarlet) is possible if you start with red species and keep out anything that has any blue in it.
BarbJA (Shivering in Wisconsin)
Bob, I have small phals that insist on spiking. We're talking 4-5" LS. They spike and then blast the buds. What, if anything, am I doing wrong? They are in ~45-50% humidity, med light, warmish temps.
Phals
BarbJA...bud blast is caused by any conditions outside a very narrow envelope. When you plants bud, try to tighten the temp range, lower the light and avoid any kind of trauma to the brand new tissue of buds.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Bob, Another phal related one! *g* After buds start to form, should you keep the temps pretty much constant?
Phals
Sam...see the comment on bud blast. Yes, tighten the ranges of all culture variables.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
See it! Thanks. That's what I thought. I was having the same problem, then kept them at the same temps. Doing fine now.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Bob, I have several seedlings that are about 4-5 inches long and are spiking, should I let them flower, or should I cut the spike?
Phals
LeslieV1...allow them to flower, see what they have to offer and clip the spike to rest the plant. A seedling in bloom is like having a pregnant 12-year old around. Not too choice.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
That's what I thought, thanks.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
What about seedling species? Should you let them, or promote them to flower at a young age?
Phals
Sam...pregnant 12-year olds are bad news in any species...
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Good point!!!! LOL
phal (melanie)
Is bud blast inherent in some crosses?
Phals
Melanie...I don't think bud blast is inherent in the plant. It is an environmental problem, directly attributable to the grower. Sorry.
BarbJA (Shivering in Wisconsin)
Is it ok to let tiny (say 3-4" LS) phals to spike and bloom?? I'm referring to a mix of hybrids.
foxtail2
Bob, should you allow a keiki to bloom during first year?
Phals
Foxtail2...if the host plant is mature, yes.
phal (melanie)
Bob, we see some phals that have erect blooms, nicely spaced, facing the same way and look very pretty. Is that genetic or cultural?
Phals
Melanie...probably both, but some crosses make the grower look good.
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
Bob, I've been tempted to try growing Phals in teak baskets. Was going to use a Phal Aussie Delight because its already growing sideways in its pot. I think Jose Esposito does this with his phals. Have you tried it? With what success? What medium, if any have you tried or would suggest?
Phals
KB...Jose with high humidity in So. Florida can get away with it, just like in the southwest Pacific. In northern CA, not too good an idea, but if you like challenges...
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
Following up on Phals in baskets, I was going to keep them below my Vandas (mist would come on 4x daily for 5-10 min), Think I'm courting disaster with crown rot?
Phals
KB...yes.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
I have a hybrid mounted on bark...leaf span is about 6-7 in. Should this one be flowering?
Phals
Sam....only mount phals on slabs if you want to water every day...or twice a day. Size at flowering is a function of species and culture...6-7 inches, maybe.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Have had this one mounted since it was about 3in across. Water every day, growing like a weed! In an apartment no less.....
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
Sam, which species?
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
It's a hybrid...don't know what though....:-/
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
What is your feeling about using epsom salts?
Phals
LeslieV1...in Florida, your plants will benefit from regular applications of epsom salts...5 teaspoons per gallon of fertilizer water. Elsewhere, check your water supply and, if your magnesium count is at least 6 parts per million, no epsom salts is needed.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Yes, how often should I use it, with every fertilizing?
Phals
LeslieV1... yes.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
How often should you apply epsom salts?
Phals
Sam...in Florida, with every watering. Elsewhere, check your water analysis sheet first. Some growers add it with every watering and I agree with that, but others add it only during spike formation. Both seem to work. Amazingly tolerant plants, the phals.
send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
What about using Cal-Mag instead?
Phals
Marla...sure, if your calcium is also low. Epsom salts are much cheaper than Cal-Mag.
send Orchids (Marla in Boise)
Is there calcium in the Epsom salts?
Phals
Marla...no, epsom salts is magnesium sulfate.
Equitantman (Matt in CA - it was warm today)
Bob, how long and how much spread do Phals need the diurnal range?
Phals
Matt...I don't think phals are short night sensitive, but 6-8 hours of darkness will probably be enough.
Equitantman (Matt in CA - it was warm today)
Isn't diurnal range - the range of high and low temperature?
Phals
Matt...diurnal to me means night and day. If you're talking about nighttime temps, 15 degrees F is more than adequate. You get a lot more than that.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
Yes, in summer you get 20-30 degree diff.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
I'm not proud of this, but my phals got hit with 43 degrees and never showed any damage!
Phals
LeslieVV1...you probably scared the peewaden out of them, so expect a better than usual flowering. They probably thought they were going to die and will flower to sustain the species.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
peewaden? LOL
Phals
LeslieV1...you know, peewaden. This is a mixed company show.
Equitantman (Matt in CA - it was warm today)
Well, Mom is growing them inside next to her kitchen window and they don't have any spikes, they were outside for about 2 weeks this fall. How many weeks do they need the temperature difference?
Phals
Matt...your mother's kitchen window faces west. I think that may be the problem. Move them out into the greenhouse during September -December and watch the difference.
Josh319 (The hosta, pond, and orchid guy!!)
What is wrong with a west facing window?
Phals
Josh319...a western exposure gives you good light, but also gives you a
lot of heat. A southern exposure is far and away the best for phal culture.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
But that would get warm too, wouldn't it?
phal (melanie)
Sam, sometimes fire seems like a good idea!
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
How 'bout spikes, should they be tied to go straight up or let them arc as they may?
Phals
harold6820...initially, tie them at the first bud...and allow the arch to develop. Move the tie up as the spike matures. Nurseries tie them straight up like a flagpole ...for space reasons.
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Bob. Are you a cut or no cut?????
Phals
harold6820...explain cut or no cut, please. I'm a farm boy who's led a sheltered
life.
harold6820 (Farmers Branch, TX)
Everyone I talk to has a firm opinion on cutting back a spike after it blooms, or not cutting back the spike.
Phals
harold6820...cut the spike off completely from a first bloom. On mature plants, cut the spike off below the first flowering node to expedite a second flowering...or leave it alone and it will do it by itself.
In the northern hemisphere, for spring flowering phals (whites, pinks and tripes), cut the spike off below the bottom node to force the plant to rest. Follow down the spike to the bottom bulge. That is the lowest node and, to put the plant to rest for spike induction, cut it off there on or about 1 September.
Reason?
A hormone is produced in the node that tells the plant to keep on flowering to try to make seed. With the spike and all its nodes gone, the hormone is gone and the plant will rest before the next flowering process.
Equitantman (Matt in CA - it was warm today)
OK, I thought we were talking about where to cut to induce a branch spike - that would be above the top node? I don't believe in doing this but thought I would just clarify.
Phals
Matt...Branching cannot, in my experience, by induced by cutting. Branching is a genetically-determined quality.
phal (melanie)
Bob, can you shed any light on the most frequent FLorida pests to bother phals and give us the least toxic remedy?
Phals
Melanie...sorry, I'm not current. Anyone else answer Melanie's question on Florida wildlife?
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Well, I've been having a little trouble with mealy bugs! I hate those creatures! I was using 409 with alcohol. It really didn't do the trick.
Phals
LeslieV1...mealybugs and phals are like hound dogs and fleas: they have just gotten rid of them, have got them, or are just about to get them.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Then I don't feel so bad.
phal (melanie)
What about mites and phals? Any trick to getting rid of them that is non-toxic to humans? SO far, I've used the 409 and alcohol, alcohol alone and Safer's soap. The crux of the leaves just keep growing new crops and when it is warm - ay ya yi.
nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Melanie - the safe for you sprays you mention are contact effective, but not residual. You gotta get it on the varmints every time they show.
Phals
Melanie...I don't know about 409 and alcohol; sounds dangerous to the plants. Rubbing alcohol by itself, though, is the cheapest non-residual pesticide around.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
What about a miticide, Melanie?
phal (melanie)
Which miticide or contact spray is envionmentally friendly?
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Melanie, if you want, I have alot of Kelthane - something like that - anyway it kills mites. I'll bring some to the meeting if you want.
Phals
Melanie...get a good miticide and learn to use it on your phals. You're going to need it. But in the interim, try a teaspoon of vegetable oil and one of dishwash detergent liquid in a gallon of water. Spray monthly in
the warm, dry weather. Ultra-fineoil works very well, too, on any kind of sucking insect.
[Like Melanie (below) Louisiana has heat and sun and I would not use cooking oil because finding days out of the sun is next to impossible...mlg]
A comprehensive article on horticultural oils is at http://www.prysm.net/orchidsafari/archiv75.html
phal
Bob, pardon my ignorance, but what part of the country are you located?
Phals
Melanie...in the mountains of southern California, 100 miles east of and
6,000 feet above Los Angeles.
phal (melanie)
Now, Bob, maybe you can clarify if vegetable oil is 'fine enough' to use on orchid leaves. I saw a lot of discussion on this on the OLD and there were objections. have you used it successfully on your phal? Second, what you are suggesting is suffocation, how about Hot Pepper Wax?
Phals
Melanie...Ultra-Fine Oil or rubbing alcohol. Ultra-Fine Oil is a commercial product costing about $10 per pint. For the other use with a detergent, use any kind of kitchen vegetable oil. I watched that whole ridiculous farce on the OLD and vowed then, never to bring the subject up again because of the ad nauseum length of the discussion that the OLD seems to provoke. I'm not interested in the hot wax and cinnamon novelties when there are so many excellent products around. Those other things are very chic, but have very little use in the greenhouse. See how many commercial growers use them. I rest my case.
phal
Thanks, Bob. Just wondered. In the heat of sunny South FL, I was afraid to use oil on my plants for fear that I'd cook them.
Phals
Melanie...you have good reason to be concerned. Keep the sprayed plants out of the hot sun for a week or so and water the leaves generously in the interim.
foxtail2
Phal, would mites cause holes in the leaves as I cannot find any mites or other bugs?
phal (melanie)
Foxtail, yes there is pitting from mite damage.
Phals
Foxtail...mites do not cause holes in phal leaves, but grasshoppers and slugs do.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
I found a very sneaky snail hiding in one of my favorite phals, the lower leaves were all chewed up!
Phals
LeslieV1...try to get some Kocide 101...copper hydroxide. It will control bacterial rot...and slugs/snails. The copper causes a mild electric shock in contact with their mucus...and gives them a little goose.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Does Kocide affect dens? I try to keep all of my phals together. does copper bother any other kind of orchids?
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
I'd forgotten that about Kocide - perhaps I'll use it in April and October (slug seasons in Louisiana)
Phals
LeslieV1...dens? What's that? Is that some kind of real orchid like a phalaenopsis? To my knowledge, Kocide 101, used at the rate of one-half tablespoon per gallon, will not harm any orchid.
Phals
Lois...better check on the Kocide 101. The activists here in California have gotten it banned. Ridiculous!
LeslieV1
That's great to know! Should I be stocking up on Kocide?
Phals
Leslie...if you can find Kocide 101, yes. Read any of my books.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln,NE)
What is your opinion on promix?
Phals
Sam...the peat-perlite mixes are probably the most useful medium to plant your phals in....but it is also the most dangerous. It holds water well, for the beginner, too well. Use coarser mixes until you get the hang of
phal culture, then move up to the peat-perlite mixes. This is a very controversial subject and I got flamed badly by an 'expert' on the subject on the Orchid List Digest a year or so ago. Mediums are an extension of the grower and mirror his or her style of culture. They're all good in the hands of an experienced grower.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Bob, do you have any favorite reds, or yellows?
Phals
Leslie...no, my long suit is culture. I like mostly tall, elegant, arching whites, though. Who doesn't? I did a lot of breeding with venosa and Deventeriana some years ago...and may go back to it. I followed the Green Phal Grail for 10 years.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Are there any greens out there?
Phals
LeslieV1...yes, there are, but no big, commercial ones...to my knowledge.
nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Bob, we're breeding with amabilis and venosa. Trying to get overall size down to commercial handling standards. Better come join us - it's a lot of fun and the plants bloom in two years from the cross.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Sounds nice Ed!
Phals
Ed...multiflora yellows/greens. I think you have a marketable innovation. We will try to get back down to San Antonio again soon. Faye had a heart valve replaced last April, so we've cut back a bit on the travel.
LeslieV1 (Leslie, from Parkland, Fla.)
Do you know where I can get one, maybe?????
Phals
Leslie...not really, but watch for them, both in the nurseries and in Home Depot. I've seen (and bought) some that I thought were awardable for less than twenty bucks there.
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
This might not be the time to ask this question, but what's the difference between Doritis and Phalaenopsis? I've been told its chiefly in the arch of the spike, Doritis stands more upright and phal arches gracefully. Otherwise the flowers are very similar to my untrained eye.
Phals
KB...the taxonomists see a difference in structure and habit, but for most of us, they bloom in the summer and have the lovely fuschia color sometimes missing from the phals. I treat them both the same way.
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
Bob, the one I have is called Dtps. Delicado 'Orinda' white petals and sepals with a very light lavendar lip. From Maynard Michael... I don't know why I threw that in...
Phals
Lois...I'm pooped and my wine glass is empty. Can I go read my email?
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
We will miss you, Bob - but you've been on duty right at two hours now! Thanks ever so much! You sure stirred em up! Please come back soon.
Phals
Lois...thanks. I'll be back when you call. Night KB. Night Ed. My best to all in SA.
KB Barrett (Kathy in N. Calif.)
Night Bob, speedy recovery to your wife.
Fleur
Thank you Bob, I have listened with interest, but do not grow the plants myself. We are having a terrible time here at the moment, surrounded by fire on three sides. Had to stay home to keep watch for spot fires, and anyway all roads into the city are closed. We are not in immediate danger but the suburbs around the city are in a great deal of trouble. The house we sold last year is right in the path of the fire.
Phals
Fleur...one of the most enthusiastic bunch of phal growers I've run across s in Edmonton, Alberta...1,500 miles north of here. I grow in a tiny greenhouse on the front of our mountain cabin...with artificial lighting. We only have a 2-hour exposure to the sun because of the 110-foot cedars around us. Anything is possible ...nite. Fleur...we had to evacuate our cabin in October because of forest fires. No damage.
Fleur
Good night Bob, and thanks.
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
Looks like you made the right move, Fleur!
Fleur
A friend of mine had to evacuate last night, still no news on her house but the reports are not good, the whole area was burnt out.
Evlyn
Hi -- better later than never
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
Hi, Evlyn - Bob Gordon has finished - was here two hours!
Evlyn
Did he say anything about media or about why some ones fail to bloom? Ed what media do you recommend for Phals
ADDED:
[If you are a beginner, use fine fir bark, tree fern or any other relatively coarse media. As you progress, you can move to the finer media.
Reason: Coarse media is tolerant of overwatering; fine media is not.
Re failure to flower: Nine times out of ten if a healthy, mature phal doesn't bloom in season, the reason is lack of light, either in intensity or duration. 800-1,000 footcandles is ideal and 6 hours in the winter and whatever is natural in the summer. Adjust accordingly...BG]
nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Hi, Evlyn. We put phals in straight domestic sphagnum until they come out of five inch pots. Then we let them tell us. Some like sphagnum, some want a more open mix and some no mix at all in the larger sizes. The plant will let you know. The larger the plant, the less medium, as a rule.
Evlyn
Durn--I don't know how to talk ORCHID. They maybe be talking to me--YO No hablar Orchid
nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Evlyn, try se habla orquidea.
marylois ((NW Louisiana))
Getting v-e-e-r-r-r-y late. Don't like to leave good company, but - See y'all Wed nite.
nodosa (Ed in SAT)
Looks like the witching hour has caught us all. Thanks for a pleasant evening.
CREDIT LINE: Many thanks to Kathy Barrett who spend 5+ hours cleaning up this transcript and sequencing questions and answers.
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