TRANSCRIPT
Guy Cantor, Australian Orchids, Sat, Jan 31, WBS
Present were 21:
James
Doug
Steve
Guy
Sam
Darryl
NativeOrchids
Bill - new from Long Island NY!
Paula
Lois
AndyNVA
Marilyn
Evlyn
Gail
Peter
Jim
Marla
Mickey
Fleur
Clare
RDavid
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney):
G'day folks from sunny Sydney.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Hi, Guy, how are you, Mate?
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Hey Guy, you sound like you grow orchids like me! 'By total neglect!!!!' James, did I tell you what Dr. Atwood said my Den. wasn't guerreroi---it's a epidendropsis!
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Doug, I'm fine if a bit hot. Hello, Steve. Yes, I believe in the neglect theory for some, although my wife would argue that. She thinks she is an orchid widow.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Guy---my wife used to say that too---now she says she's a computer widow!
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Steve - have a seedling of epidendropsis, waiting to see what it looks like.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Mine is at
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Steve - I get that too, my wife ('She Who Must Be Obeyed' to use the formal title), is not very keen on the PC.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Hello Guy......The seeds you sent me are doing fine. May re-plate in a few weeks! In fact..going to sow another batch tomorrow.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Oceania Darryl - another Aussie, now I am under pressure. Feel free to correct me when I get it wrong!
Oceania Darryl
No, Guy, it's all yours. Although I'll help if necessary.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
G'day Sam-thats good, nothing else on the way for a while until the bigibbums flower I suppose I had better start now - what can I tell you about how I grow orchids here? The subject is Australian Orchids although Lois and I haven't really planned the programme. I have details of my growing conditions and some photos of plants at the OrchidSafari homepage, Member's Growing Areas. At the moment it's a glorious summer Sunday, about 90 degrees F, so things are growing.
NativeOrchid (Darnestown, MD)
Do you grow any of your native terrestrials?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Native Orchid - only Calanthe trilplicata and Phaius tankervillae.
Oceania Darryl
James in Fresno. Do you grow any Aussie Bulbophyllums?
55SS (James in Fresno)
Would they be either lobyii or gibbosum? if not, then no.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Darryl---how do you know if they're Aussies? listen for an accent???
Oceania Darryl
No, James they're Asian. No, Sparky, just look for the tall good looking ones!
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Or, Darryl, does the smell tell us where they're from?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - do you grow bulbos? I grow the ones common to NSW plus a couple from North Queensland - I think one is newportii? I mainly grow dendrobes.
Oceania Darryl
Some are quite putrid, there's a group from New Guinea called the Big Stinkies. Guy, at one stage or another I've grown all the Aussies Bulbos except B. boonjee.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
If the temps are in the 90's there, Guy, can you bloom Den. kingianum? How about Den. cuthbertsonii?
[I have a seedling of cuthbertsonii which is ok plus a friend grows it not far from here -although I admit I haven't seen them flower...gc]
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula -no problem, we get a wide temperature range - it gets down to 6C here in winter. Where the kingies come from it can get fairly warm, particularly if you get clones from Queensland.
Oceania Darryl
Paulav, D. cuthbertsonii is from New Guinea and is worth its own subject it's such a terrific species.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy, looked at GH, I think. Windy, or other cooling?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Doug - its very humid at the moment. Paula - I live on the coast so we don't get frost much less snow. I have seen kingianum growing at 4000ft where it snows but that's about 300 miles from here.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
I saw in the Geocities site that Den. speciosum takes 10 yrs to flower... Any way to shorten that time up?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Sam - some varieties (which are now considered species) such as pedunculatum and curvicaule are supposed to flower quicker, but for the good old 'Rock Lily' speciosum it seems to take that long at least from seed. If you can get a division of a mature plant it would be less of course.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Guy, was the seed you sent me a cross, or species?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Sam - species, D. speciosum and D. tarberi.
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Oh, well....I can look forward to blooms when I'm 50! LOL
Oceania Darryl
If you're only 46 now that's great!
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Yes - they get a bit that way! I have heaps of species in flasks that will brighten up my retirement, and I'm only 43.
Darryl - does falcorostrum flower earlier? I sent seed on that as well to various people.
Oceania Darryl
Guy, it's also very slow. Generally large plants from higher altitudes have slower growth rates. For falcorostrum I've flowered them from about 7 years from flask. A few will flower earlier but not many.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - I didn't flask it myself as I have a few reasonable size plants. You sound as though you do a fair bit of flasking - what types? I've only been doing it on a hobby basis for 18 months, but with good results.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy, is seed you send dried, or still in pod/capsule?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Doug - dry seed as I am not sure what your laws are like, plus most went to Aaron Hicks. Cool growing Aussie dendrobes mature pods fairly quickly, so you don't have to wait long.
Oceania Darryl
Guy, New Guinea species, Pacific Islands species and Australian species and hybrids, plus a few foreigners. Natives are mostly Dockrillia hybrids and spp., Dendrocoryne a bit plus whatever Sarcs I can get fertile. 2nd & 3rd generation Sarc hybrids are difficult to breed.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - if you get spares of the NG and islands dendrobes I would be interested I am surprised more people in cooler climates don't grow the sarcs.
Oceania Darryl
On Sarc. hybrids it not unusual to do about 80 crosses and end up with about 5-10 germinated in the flask.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy, are Sarcs on CITES listing?
Andy NVA (Northern VA.)
Guy, Carol E-mailed me and is having trouble with her Sarc. ceciliae. What can you tell us about its growing conditions?
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Sarc feeding and care? Both of mine bit the bullet.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Doug - as far as I know all orchids are on CITES with a handful on Level 1 and the rest on 2.
Sarc. cecillae is a hard one - I am told it needs to be grown sitting on top of rocks such as sandstone with the roots allowed to wander down into the media. Many other sarcs are much more forgiving.
Oceania Darryl
Yes Guy, S.ceciliae is one of the less easy ones. Most success is with plants in shallow saucers with a chunky bark & gravel mix. It's essential that they be kept out of winter rain. Water sparingly.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
As you can see from my growing area I grow most plants just in the garden, with no reason to move them in winter. There are about 500 odd Australian native species in existence, with a large proportion terrestrial, so there's plenty of scope to build a collection. The epiphytes range from pure tropical ones to others that will withstand snow so they can be grown in a wide range of habitats -it just depends what you want.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Guy, do you grow any subterranean ones?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - sorry but like 99.99% of the population I have never seen one. When someone finds one it usually makes it into an orchid journal - they are probably both very rare and hard to find.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy and Darryl, what media do you use for dens?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Doug - I use media made roughly 60/40 of medium pine bark and pebbles, although many plants are on slabs, tied to trees plus I have a dozen lumps of speciosum sitting on a rock shelf in the front of my garden, there is a picture of some in the growers area site.
Oceania Darryl
A bark and pebble mix is very common. Treated pine bark, graded according to the type of Den. then varying proportions of stone but not more than 50%.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - yes my measuring (like my growing in general) is fairly rough, at least for the bulk of the natives.
Mr.BillM (Bill in Long Island, New York)
GuyCan2, when you mention pebbles, are you referring to small pieces of pumice?
[Bill - no not pumice, the pebbles are what we would know as river pebbles made of a variety of hard rocks...gc]
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
My turn for a question - have many of you tried Aussie orchids? If so, what is usually available - kingianum? What sorts of Sarcs?
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy - I'd have to go find the tags, the sarcs were little.
Clare in LA
I only have a kingianum, and it's finally spiking!
marylois
I've kingianums...and a couple of sarc in a miniflask....*S*
orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
I have a Sarc. fitzhart on the way...
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Guy, I have a rather large plant of Den. delicatum, which I was told is a primary hybrid of kingianum and speciosum. Right?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - yes that's right, although the variety of speciosum is now known as a species D. tarberi.
Mr.BillM (Bill in Long Island, New York)
GuyCan2, my dens are potted in straight pinebark. Should I mix in some small pieces of pumice?
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
GuyCan2, rocks are for weight, or necessary for calcium and such?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Bill - if they grow ok, I wouldn't, but I use pebbles mainly to retain a bit more water and to add a bit of weight to the pot, and pebbles are a lot cheaper than bark!
Doug - I would doubt that the orchids would get much if any mineral out of these pebbles, they are pretty hard and impervious, but who knows?
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Darn, I'm jealous. natch, a lot of new things die before they bloom. But that's how I learn to grow orchids, doesn't it work that way for everyone?
Fleur
I have a small collection Sarcs and various Dendrobium (about 50 all up).
Oceania Darryl
Did anybody pick up any of the Aussie natives that David Banks took to America last year?
Clare in LA
I have a no-name den just growing in sand. Is that unusual?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Clare _ I haven't seen sand used before.
Doug - sounds like the dendrobes had a lot of some of the tropical species in them, that do grow big. One of the aussie ones D. discolor can grow to 5 metres in the wild but less in cultivation.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I have a discolor Guy---not very happy here!
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
My dens, a lot of 'em, kept lifting GH roof. So I sold them.
Fleur
I have a D. linguiforme which lived very hard over the last winter, it's showing signs of new root growth now but I'm not sure of it's ideal growing conditions, can you help?
Oceania Darryl
Fleur, is it in a pot or slab. If slab, what sort & for how long?
Fleur
Darryl, It's on a tree branch that's nailed to a base so it stands upright. It's living under the bench as I thought it liked shade.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Steve - I would have thought discolor would love Florida - how cold does it get? They like hot and humid but with a warm dry winter.
Fleur - linguiforme grows wild 200 metres from my home - it sits out on sandstone rocks and cops
whatever nature throws at it - you can put it in full sun. I have seen them in shady spots, but don't know if they flower there.
Oceania Darryl
Fleur, quick answer is give it as much sun as it can get.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
I agree with you Darryl!
Oceania Darryl
Thanks, sparkysteve. It can grow in some of the most sunny, dry and miserable looking spots imaginable for an orchid.
Fleur
Should I move the D. linguiforme outside in the sun or just a sunny spot in the greenhouse?
Oceania Darryl
Fleur, try a sunny spot in the GH first to acclimatise the plant to the new light then outside next summer.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
These are often very tough plants because they live in a tough environment - speciosum will grow back after a bushfire has literally turned it to a black patch on a rock face.
marylois
Guy, how about listing some Australian dendrobiums....if not here, in the transcript?
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Yes, Lois, maybe that would help us. I may have some, I'm just not sure which are from where.
digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Guy, on transcript, please list sources if possible. Thanks. [See the Orchid Mall, they list Aussie vendors -- KB]
Fleur
Lois, I have John Kavulak's Australian Native orchid hybrid guide here, it's a listing with no plant information, and its 232 pages long. *grin*
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
I haven't got a list handy but here goes - Darryl fill in the gaps!
Dendrobiums - speciosum, kingianum, gracilicaule, delicatum, gracillimum (the last two hybrids), falcorostrum, striolatum (from tassie as well as mainland),a dae, pugioniforme, fleckeri, agrostophyllum, jonesii - these are cool growers [plus tetrogonum, used in many hybrids...gc]
Then you get the warmer growers: D. bigibbum, discolor, smilliae, canaliculatum, dicuphum, nindi, antennatum - there are quite a lot more.
Then you get the Sarcs -cecillae, falcatus, olivaceous, hartmannii, fitzgeraldi, australis, hirtcalar.
Fleur
Guy, I'm impressed, all that off the top of your head.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Yes - there are hundreds of hybrids - it's been an area which has taken off in the last 20 years. I only have a few such as Hilda Poxon, Star of Gold, Peter - some of the earlier ones.
marylois
There you go, Guy! Just those most commonly used in breeding helps a lot - it shows we ALL have lots of dendrobiums with Australian parents.
Oceania Darryl
Guy, you've got about half of them. The definitive reference is 'Australian Orchid Research Vol.1' by Mark Clements 1989. Published by the Australian Orchid Foundation. A couple of species have been discovered and named since then such as Dockrillia brevicauda and Bulbo. lamingtonense.
l
It was first named Bulbo.caldericola by Gerry Walsh in The Orchadian but there was an error in the citation. David Jones and Mark Clements published B. lamingtonense a few weeks later, independently. The citation for B. caldericola was fixed in the next issue of The Orchadian but it was too late
and B. lamingtonense has priority.
[Fleur obtained permission from David Jones to copy The Checklist of the Genus Dockrillia to this archive...it appears following this transcript...mlg].
Fleur
Thanks, a gradual move to the light it is then. Who named Bulbo. lamingtonense? For our folks in the US, lamingtons are small CAKES.
Oceania Darryl
Lamingtons are delicious, but in this case it was after the mountain range!
Fleur
After the mountain? Should have known that. *grin*
Oceania Darryl
They are very attractive, Anybody in USA want some?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - so they named it after the Lamington Plateau - as fine a patch of rainforest as I have seen - plenty of orchids there! For the others, it's an area of National Parkon the border of New South Wales (my state) and Queensland.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Guy, is there heavy summer rainfall where kingianum and speciosum grow naturally?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - yes it can often get very heavy rain, but winters are not that dry either, around here we can get rain at any time of the year with winter. (August) the driest month.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Guy, what type of orchid pests do you contend with? Do you have locusts? snails? slugs? Guy, are you able to use any natural deterrents, such as ducks for snails, or chameleons for bugs?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - I think I've got every pest known to man some days. The ones you mention plus aphids, mealy bugs, scale, etc. We do have a beetle called the Dendrobium beetle which as the name implies just loves chewing on new leads an laying eggs in them for larvae to burrow down into the leads. They love hot
weather, so I think I will find two or more out there today - for some reason they always go in twos??????
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - we don't have chameleons or any other lizard that seems to eat the bugs. Don't get too many snails.
I think orchids can take most types of pesticides but I don't really use them, preferring the search and destroy system myself. I use a bit of pyrethrum on the aphids which have been bad this summer.
Fleur (Tasmania)
I found some scale on my Masd. dura the other day, nearly covered with it, the week before there had been none at all. Never seen it so fast before.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Wanna trade for a saddleback caterpiller? Fleur--were they males?
Darryl---saddlebacks are poisonous!
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Sure, Darryl - we'll trade you some for Palmetto bugs and spiders the size of Buicks!
Oceania Darryl
You'll need some funnel web spiders in exchange then, sparkysteve. Nah, I'll guess we'll just have to be happy with what we've got.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Steve - trust me you don't need Dendrobium Beetles, I use a size 12 boot on them I dislike them so much.
Darryl - I found 3 funnelwebs in my old glasshouse -they wouldn't want them either! These things can kill!
Oceania Darryl
Guy's right they're a rotten nuisance. I capture them then drop them into a Nepenthes pitcher for the most deadly swim of their rotten little lives.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Guy, isn't there a natural predator for Den. beetles?
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Paula - only the orchid lunatic wandering along looking at the damage the $^#$#&^#$&^#%%^ have done.
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
We have a similar problem with Lubber grasshoppers here in our tropical South Florida climate. They LOVE to munch orchids, and one grasshopper can destroy a plant a day. And the Lubbers have no predators - birds spit them out. They're much to big to step on - I'm going to invest in a flame-thrower!
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Keep 'em over there Guy!!
Fleur (Tasmania)
We have a variety of little green tree frogs here which will make a home in the greenhouse, a wonderful way to kill pests. Wish I had some here.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Folks - I have to get going in about 10 minutes - chores to do - so if you have some more questions fire away. If you think of anything later my e-mail address is either annecan@bigpond.com or Guy.Cantor@zurich.com.au
Oceania Darryl
He hasn't got any jobs at all, he just wants to go and watch the cricket, Australia vs South Africa!
Fleur (Tasmania)
Score is Aus 2 for 172.
Oceania Darryl
Paula, where did you hear about the underground orchids? Is their existence well known over there?
paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Darryl, from the Golden Guide 'Orchids' book - my very first orchid book - it's what helped to get me hooked on this marvelous hobby.
marylois
That little book has nailed a lot of us, Paula.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Darryl - 2/174 Taylor 77,M Waugh 50.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Guy---explain all those numbers!!!!!!
Oceania Darryl
Steve, don't ask. It's like trying to explain the rules for American Football to an Aussie. We'll just keep the mystery.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Steve - it's the cricket score, and it would take all day to explain it -suffice to say it's half way through the third day, yes, that's days of play out of a possible 5.
Oceania Darryl
It seems from this session and many 'OLD' postings that D. kingianum is quite popular in the U.S. Anybody growing Sarcochilus hartmannii?
[Darryl, I think everyone in the U.S. wants to grow Sarc. hartmannii, but it definitely takes a cool room to do it well...mlg]
[That's interesting as it grows ok at my place...gc]
Fleur
This scale on my Masd. I think it's scale. It's like white raised soft trails with a yellow head on the underside of the leaves, does anyone know what it is? Some plants I bought locally had it, I kept cleaning them and it went away, or I thought it had!!!
Oceania Darryl
Are there little pink ones as well? If so its white louse scale.
Fleur (Tasmania)
Didn't see any pink. I just washed it off and so far no more is visible.
Oceania Darryl
Not juvenile mealy bugs? These would wash off easily & are fluffy white.
Fleur (Tasmania)
No, not fluffy, soft and moist.
marylois
Sounds like a job for Ed's 409/alcohol/water mixture, Fleur - it's a scale all right.
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Orthene will do them in!!! Orthenex spray is nice to have around.
Oceania Darryl
What it comes down to is, don't worry about the name - KILL EM ANYWAY!
(Only if the're damaging the plants of course...gc)
sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
That's why I said do it in intervals---3 times--to kill the eggs.
Oceania Darryl
Time for me to go, TTFN. Enjoyed the chat as it was my area of special interest.
GuyCan2 (Guy in sydney)
Well, I've got to go I hope you picked up something from my ramblings. I am only a hobby grower and in no way an expert so what you have got is very much the layman's view If you want to know anything else please contact me, I read my mail daily -orchids are always much better than work! regards Guy.
marylois
Bye, Guy - thanks ever so much...and thanks for all the photos on your growing page - really a nice grouping of plants and information.
Go Back to Index
CHECKLIST OF GENUS DOCKRILLIA
From: Fleur fleur@netspace.net.au
Subject: Dockrillia
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:39:54 +1100
Here are the two articles on the changes of Dendrobium to Dockrillia....I received the following email authorizing reprint from David Banks, editor of The Orchadian, Journal of the Australian Native Orchid Society
.
Fleur
Hi Fleur,
Yes you may use the Dockrillia articles as long as the original source is also credited...Kind regards,
David
See Source Credits.
- A Checklist of the Genus Dockrillia, Mark A. Clements and David L. Jones
- The Genus Dockrillia, the Pros and Cons,David R Banks
- Source Credits
