OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

1. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

2. TRANSCRIPT

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graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Good choice, Melanie ...we do too! We'll start with a couple of the more obvious orchids that we might grow as foliage plants. The Brachypetalum Paphs have beautiful foliage, you can see a little of it in this photo of Paph. concolor

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Paph. concolor is VERY easy!!

phal (melanie)
Right, Greg, Paph leaves are exquisite.

orchidnut (Sam in Lincoln, NE)
Similar to Phal schilleriana...

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Easy for some, Sparky...! Another favorite 'normal' orchid that can be considered an extraordinary foliage plant would have to be Phalaenopsis schilleriana. A few other Phals including stuartiana also have beautiful foliage. But we're not really talking JUST leaves here. If these Phals are encouraged to grow somewhat naturally the whole attitude of the plant is graceful from the gently arching leaves to the branched inflorescence.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Wow, that Phalaenopsis schilleriana foliage is beautiful.

phal (melanie)
That Phal is a spectacular plant!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Is that yours, Greg?

marilyninOttawa
I like the foliage and pseudobulbs of Onc. phymatochilum.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Phymatochilum...is that a mule ear Marilyn ? The pity with some of these species is that they're not allowed to grow naturally. Most growers train Phal. schilleriana to grow straight in a pot and then add insult to injury by staking the flower spike upright, indeed this may be what it takes to get one nominated for judging. But in nature they grow clinging to a tree and everything kinda droops naturally. This may not be completely by accident, the angled leaves prevent standing water which may lead to crown rot. Of course the delicate rose-scented flowers are an event for us each spring and it's hard to walk by the plants without admiring them.

marylois
Ah, pseudobulbs...now you're into an entirely new art form, Marilyn! *s*

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Hey Lois, I didn't know that pseudobulbs were an art form! I remember when I first got into orchids Ralph McKeral told me that orchid plants were ugly. I since have found out that he was referring to Cattleyas, which are not the the most attractive members of the plant kingdom (although a well-grown bifoliate can be a thing of beauty).

marilyninOttawa
No. Onc. phymatochilum is not a mule ear type. The pseudobulbs are flattened and coppery color. The leaves are about 1.5 ft long, leathery and matte olive green. When it blooms, it bears masses of white flowers on a 2-3 ft long, branched inflorescence. A never fail plant.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Greg, I'm in love, just wish I could grow Phal. schilleriana.

phal (melanie)
I like Jose Exposito's idea of growing the Phals in a cedar basket suspending the plant in a way that lets it grow outward (laterally) like off a tree. I did a couple of mine that way and it's great!

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Greg, if we start growing our phals hanging naturally, will it never be possible to have a judge award them?

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Probably not Paula...but then you need to ask yourself, who you are growing your orchids for?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Isn't it nice however to see such beautiful flowers come from such homely plants?

marilyninOttawa
I think some Cattleyas such as C. bowringiana and C. elongata are quite handsome as plants. The first has glaucous foliage and the second is so tall, it just has to be elegant!

marylois
To me, branching is lovely, and there is nothing more appealing (pardon the pun *peeling*) than nice shiny, plump pseudobulbs!...Re Phals...when I had the second greenhouse, I grew phals on the north wall on slanted shelves...gave natural arch and when you sat plant flat, the arch was higher. Worked VERY well.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
I don't know if I would attribute that idea to Jose, Melanie. That schilleriana in flower photo was taken 15 years ago before Jose was even born...I got the idea from mother nature. Let's looka at some Dens. BTW Fleur, we can't grow Masdevallias either.

bmtorchids (Barbara in wet wet California)
Marilyn, if you like the pseudobulbs, try Onc. Elegance 'Midas' and Schomburgkia. They look like tree.

marilyninOttawa
What is the species background of Onc. Elegance?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Onc Elegance = hastatum x leucochilum

marylois
Any heathy, thriving orchid plant is lovely...the shine, the shade of green...re Hazel Boyds - the leaves naturally twist (from California Apricot, I believe) - but even they look nice if leaves are glossy...hard to keep enough even moisture on a Hazel Boyd.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
I agree Marilyn, bowringiana also has those distinctive clasping sheaths. Trouble with elongata is that it needs to be grown hard to flower well and the plants can get a little nasty then. Fleur, we were just talking about how rank Hazel Boyds can be... growing in every which direction. You almost have to stake the flowers.

marilyninOttawa
Schomburgkias are certainly handsome if you can manage the spikes. I have one Schombocattleya with the elegant habit of the Schmb. but a more refined spike length of a mere 1 foot.

marilyninOttawa
I raised my bowringianas from seed and they were real cute, even in flask!

phal (melanie)
I agree with Lois. Any well grown orchid is a thing of beauty. I like them all!

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
The huge genus Dendrobium has both witches and princesses as you would expect. Some of the nobile types can be downright ugly and others such as crassinodes or senile provide moderate interest by swollen joints or fur, but the plants still have an awkward ungainly growth habit. Some of the species in the Pedilonum section however have a certain bamboo-like quality that is attractive. Here we see Den. miyakei , turned so that the foliage is featured.

phal (melanie)
Oh, Greg, that plant is divine! Looks like bamboo somewhat. How tall does it get? and what size are the flowers??

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Some folk here DO stake the flowers. *grin*, not me though, I'm just lucky if I can get a flower.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Den. anceps is a weird one! My senile has one flower now.

marylois
Oh! senile is m-a-r-v-e-l-o-u-s!!!

phal (melanie)
Greg, is the Dendrobium in the picture thin leafed or thick?

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Thin leaved and deciduous, Melanie. In the late winter Den. miyakei produces these clusters of brilliant fuschia flowers. You have secundum, topaziacum, smilliae, bracteosum which all follow a similar growth pattern but produce different colored flowers. They will all grow in intermediate to warm conditions and are very rewarding orchids for both the plants and the flowers. There are also cool growers such as lawesii and mohlianum that offer the same effect.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
That Dendrob reminds me of Den. victoria-reginae. A large plant of that would look similar I think.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Anyone who grows the taller variety of D. kingianum will know how elegant and interesting the plant can be out of bloom.

marilyninOttawa
My favorite is Dendrobium malbrownii. Exquisite (to me) slender psudobulbs, almost grass-like, with slender, grassy leaves. The flowers are proportionately small and discrete.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
You're right John...victoria-reginae is another beauty from the same section that needs a little cooler temps than we can give it here in Florida.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yes Fleur, I agree. Den. kingianum can be very interesting. I have spikes all over mine now. They are about 1 inch long.

marylois
Enc. alatum...great psuedobulbs, graceful, tall leaves...a favorite.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I think. Everyone likes particular things and some are really weird to me but to others they are beautiful. Personally, I like paphs, particularly the variegated leaf varieties.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Thanks for sitting in, Marilyn...and for mentioning Den. malbrownii.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
I am surprised no one has mentioned the Cymbidium, a well grown plant looks devine.

marylois
Oh! Isn't that Den. malbrownii lovely!?

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
The D. malbrownii is just so sweet.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yes Fleur, except that to bloom it well the plant has to have a great deal of light and that can make it look not as healthy as some others.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Of course we can't neglect Den's superbum and pierardii. Some years ago I was subscribing to a fine arts photography magazine and one issue featured 19th century photos of the Indian foothills to the Himalayas. I remember one photo that appeared as if these giant ferns were growing on the sides of these huge trees. Closer inspection revealed that they were not ferns but Den superbum. Here's a picture of a small Den. pierardii that almost looks like a pot of Swedish Ivy.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
The pierardii looks like 'bridal Veil' that we grow here, a small indoor trailing plant.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
We will be getting more oblique as we go along so if you think this is all 'old hat' hang on a minute or two. A Dendrobium exception is the bizarre Den. anceps. The rick-rack foliage is the main draw here. The small apple pie-scented flowers are not without a certain charm though. Anceps is best grown under intermediate to warm conditions on a mount to allow it to droop naturally.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Anyone grow Den. lichenastrum or D. leonis? miniatures

bmtorchids (Barbara in wet wet California)
I like pierardii in bloom, sorry Greg.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
In recent years we have added a few Dendrochilums to the collection and they are turning out to be attractive plants when out of flower. Here is Dendrochilum cobbianum. Of course they are even more spectacular when IN flower producing golden chains at the ends of delicate racemes. Other tasty Dendrochilums are arachnites and magnum with almost orange flowers. All will grow easily under warm to intermediate conditions.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Has Den. anceps been used successfully in breeding? I bloomed Dendrochilum magnum 'Hi Chang' this year and it was absolutely beautiful with dark orange flowers.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Equally nice in bloom, Barbara. Fleur, we have grown both superbum and pierardii attached to a mango tree. When they are dormant they will easily withstand freezing temperatures.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
John, the anceps has thumbnail sized flowers!!!

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yes, Steve, I thought so, but used correctly it might be interesting as a parent. miniatures?

bmtorchids (Barbara in wet wet California)
John, I had a Den. magnum once, with 28 bub. and in bloom. Then water got into the center of the leaves...... it was gone in three weeks. Be careful with yours.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Another obvious group of orchid foliage plants are the jewel orchids. People who don't know a thing about orchids have been known to grow and sell jewel orchids. The tropical ones from Asia; Ludisia, Anoectochilus, Macodes are occasionally seen offered by orchid nursesries with Ludisia (Haemaria) discolor having quite a following of its own. Some of you who live in moderate temperate areas may have, or be able to grow some of our native jewel orchids. I have seen large colonies of Goodyeara pubescens growing in the red clay of the Georgia foothills. These orchids are similar to their Asian counterparts but usually have green patterned foliage rather than red. Most people find the Asian jewel orchids as easy to grow as a pot of ivy.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I had Ludisia for years then it suddenly died on me. My fault obviously. I will be getting a new plant this spring I think.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Greg---I have been noticing all the different veins on jewel orchids---many different varieties.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Thanks, Barbara. I will remember that. Water would be easy to get in the leaves as they start to unfurl.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
I think you could still grow them Fleur...they need that dormant period, for some very extended. I'll bet that Dendrochilum was spectacular, John...they are way cool. I don't want to run too long here so we'll just briefly look at a photo of Coelogyne dayana and I'll mention that there are numerous attractive Coelogyne's that span a wide temperature range from cool to warm. The long pendant inflorescence of some species can carry 30 or more sweetly (or musky) scented flowers. Let it be known that the Coelogyne dayana in the photo has not flowered for four or five years. You should be prepared for the long haul depending on the Coelogyne species and your culture. I heard from a friend in Thailand who had a friend that finally flowered a Coelogyne flaccida after 18 years. I was told that it was truly awesome though and that the two of them took a day off work. I have just three more species to look at as we move a little more off center.

phal (melanie)
Greg, what is considered winter in South Florida? And how long do you keep the superbum's dry? I have several plants and they have lost most of their leaves now except for the tips.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Melanie---sounds like you're doin OK!

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
There are many patterns, Sparky. I suppose I should have gotten into Den. monoliforme and variegated Phaius but they seem a little too obvious.

marylois
I've Den. Sachi x moniliforme (can't remember name!) in bloom now...darling little thing...but then, I'm partial to moniliforme and anything done with it.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Does indeed sound like you're OK, Melanie. We have quite a few plants of Den. topaziacum (bullenianum) that flowers in April and I hung most of them out to dry a month ago. If they look weary give em' a drink. Let's talk about Sobralias. This is Sobralia decora. These are wonderful orchids and it is a shame that they are not found in more collections. Perhaps it is the fact that the flowers last only a day. This drawback is compensated by the continuous flower production throughout most of the warm months of the year. And of course, the wonderful plants themselves. I wouldn't have a clue John, I have never seen monoliforme grown in Florida. You probably could in Jacksonville, but I can't flower kingianum here. Thecloseup of flowers of Sobralia decora are not as large or showy as macrantha or leucoxantha but the unflowered plant would be at home in any Victorian parlor with its bamboo-like canes. Here is a view of a few more flowers.The plant that we have has nearly concolor rose flowers but when we were in Belize last autumn we saw huge clumps of a delicately-colored variety with almost white flowers and a pink lip. Our plant lives outdoors in the garden and receives no special care whatsoever.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Alright...we're getting close to the end. Another wonderful Central American orchid is Isochilus linearis. I first saw this species at the Miami Orchid Show some years ago and was intrigued by the interesting plant attitude. The distichous leaves give the plant a ferny look.

phal (melanie)
Where can one get Sobralia decora?

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
I for one would be content growing the orchid just for the foliage. But you get bright fuschia flowers in the late summer to fall as an added attraction. We also saw large clumps of this Isochilus growing high on tree limbs in Belize. It appeared to prefer slightly less than Cattleya light and more water during the growing season. Of course this orchid MUST be grown mounted to optimize the foliage effect.

foxtail2
Does the plant stay compact or does it spread?

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
There are many Sobralias, the one pictured is almost a meter tall and does spread but there are some species that are about a foot tall.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Thats a lovely thing, Greg.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Yes, Fleur, the Sobralias are very nice orchids in or out of flower. The last orchid we will look at really deviates from the big Cattleya norm...Kathy calls it a weed. I eventually may call it a weed too. But I will use it to illustrate a point. The flowers of Maxillaria uncata are certainly nothing to write home about.

marylois
That closeup makes it very good looking, Greg!!! And let's face it, most of us even love ROOTS!!!

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Back to the Max. uncata. Although the flowers are large for the plant, they are still small ...and not particularly attractive. But look at the plant - almost looks like the herb Rosemary doesn't it? I can see this plant covering that piece of cork bark ...covered with flowers, well, almost covered anyway. I think that would make an attractive interesting presentation. Let's see if I can get the plant there by the millennium. I'll let you know.

Native Heart
Here, here, Mary Lois, we are just nuts!!!! roots, leaves, pots, hangers, orchid benches, we LOVE it all!!!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Greg---tell us how small the unicata is!!!!

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Sparky, the Max. uncata flowers are about the size of Den. anceps but a different shape

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Well, I know that, but does everyone else? They are the size of an eraser on a pencil!!!!!

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
I'll add that MOST of these plants we've looked at show their best when they reach a certain size rather than splitting them up every couple years so we grow them in baskets or mounted. I don't know how much time or interest we have but I could briefly tell you how the AOS judging system deals with these type plants and maybe Lois could add something. Your typical flower quality award like an AM/AOS breaks down like this: 30 points for the flower form, 30 points for flower color, and 40 points for other characteristics... ten of which are allotted for size. The plant is not even mentioned and only 10 points are alotted for 'habit and arrangement of inflorescence'

The CHM/AOS breaks down as follows: only 36 points for flower characteristics, another 36 points for plant characteristics, and 28 points for aesthetic appeal. Notice that the CHM seems to be recognizing exactly what we have been talking about here tonight, a full 64 points are allowed for the plant as a whole. Any comments Lois?

marylois
Yes, Greg - but those shown this evening have all been recognized already, so CHM is a moot point...they are already in general cultivation....actually, to grow these now, one would have to shoot for a CCM (Cultural Merit) which goes to the grower not the plant. In that case, the foliage becomes paramount...the flowers are acceptable if their 'condition' is good...not quality of flower. The CCM does then better cover the foregoing...

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Greg, I will now look at my orchids in a brand new light, thank you so very much.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Thanks Fleur, And when there are not as many flowers as you might like to see ....just think of them as foliage plants!

Native Heart
Greg, Fleur is right, I too will be looking at my orchids in a different way from now on.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
OH I forgot to do this: I will take this opportunity to make a shameless plug for my website, The Orchid Photo Page and the attendant magazine, the O zone. If you are unable to stick through the next hour, this topic will be adapted for the O zone later this year so stop by for a visit if you haven't already.

Fleur (In sunny Tasmania)
Please explain CHM, Lois. We don't have that award here.

marylois
CBR - botanical recognition would best cover those little one-of-a-kinds we try to grow in our greenhouses...the one's that have never yet been recognized. CHM lends itself best to those of horticultural merit - i.e., useful in hybridizing, developing as pot plants, etc.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Fantastic presentation, Greg.

bmtorchids (Barbara in wet wet California)
Thanks for a great evening, see you all next week.

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Lois, do you know offhand if the Isochilus been recognized ? I guess I should have included the Cymbidium rectum that Everglades got the CHM on a couple months ago...I didn't think we could get past the name though.

phal (melanie)
I'm looking forward to next issue of the Ozone, Greg. This one was very informative. I forwarded it to everyone I know on line.

marylois
Ishochilis aurantiaca (CBR), carnosiflorus (CBR), linearis (CBM-CCM-JC-AM), major (CBM-CCM).

graphicgreg (Greg in Windy Florida)
Wow, Lois...you're fast on the draw ! Thanks. Well folks, it's about time for me to catch my daily dose of that new soap opera... 'Bill and Monica' see you next week!

marylois
Nite, Greg - thank you ever so much for a great presentation...well put together!!! Come back SOON!

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