OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

1. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

2. CONSTRUCTION OUTLINE

3. TRANSCRIPT

The main "sign up page" gives you the option of choosing a city.
Go to the main sign up page, and find a suburb you like. There are rules about what goes in what City/Suburb The Tropics and The Rain Forest are good places for Orchid Sites.

I suggest you chose the RainForest as your home. If you do decide on Rain Forest then go to and find a vacant address.

Follow the instructions you find there and very soon you should have confirmation of your new home via e-mail. Keep the information in the e-mail handy, YOU WILL NEED IT. Write it down somewhere, not on the computer and keep it safe.

When you have been informed that you have been accepted by Geocities, go to the file manager and make sure you can get in, you will need the above information to do this. File Manager.

Just one more thing, well two actually, do this now so you are ready and make sure you have a working copy of Netscape 3 or higher. MASIE will not work in file manager.

Now make a directory on your hard drive that you can find easily and place a couple of JPG or GIF pictures in it. Have all this done before the 18th and before the day is over you will have pictures on your home page that we can all see.

See you on the 18th, Fleur.

Tasmanian Orchid SocietyHomepage. my homepage.

NOTE: First, call your internet provider - you may already have free space from them.

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CONSTRUCTION OUTLINE

The Follies and Joys of building a greenhouse

This session is NOT intended to be of a serious nature. It is purely my look at greenhouse building. I am not an expert on greenhouse design or in the building of them I only know what I wanted and what I got, not the same thing at all....I wanted a glass palace.

For years I struggled to grow my Masdevallias and Draculas in an open shade house on an upstairs balcony. Not ideal as in summer they got far too hot and dry and in winter they had to spend many a night on the kitchen floor, which took a lot of effort and time. (Ask Mal, as he had to do it more often than not, due to my erratic work schedule) We survived the years by promising ourselves a GREENHOUSE one day.

Well the day came, we decided to build a new home (Mals Project, well ours really) and at the same time a greenhouse (My Project) not only had the day come but the fun started as well.

The Plan.

I decided this greenhouse so long and eagerly awaited had to be very carefully planned. I had a definite budget, size and idea in my mind, and also a very dear friend (known to many of us) who was not adverse to designing the odd Crystal Palace or two.

Step one, contact my Crystal Palace designer with my wish list and budget restraints, I believe $5.000.00 was mentioned at the time. (OK, so a small Crystal Palace. *grin*)

After much consultation and sending of information back and forth, (all done by e-mail USA to TAS) I had in my hot little hands a plan. It was a lovely plan too, two greenhouses, back to back, one to be built then and the other later when funds allowed with internal access from one to the other.

Trust me, the plans were wonderful, but unfortunately not complete.

The Odd Problem or Two.

Well, the fun started the day we received a letter from the local council stating that permission to remove a couple of trees from the new block of land had been refused.

Now this was a problem as the tree removers had been in the previous day, and yes the trees had gone. Now there was a loophole hidden in the fine print, "any tree within a six meter radius of any building for which approval had been granted could be removed without reapplying to the Council"

That night, after Mal had finished laughing, and I had recovered from my panic we set about getting something into Council before they discovered the lack of trees.

As I said before the plans we had were not complete, So I sat down in front of my trusty computer, with a cad program, the original designs and started from there.

Sometime after 2 am, I had something to put into Council. Not my Crystal Palace unfortunately, but a greenhouse for my babies the plans

A week later, (and with a lot of help from the boys in the planning department) approval had been granted and work could now begin.

The Trees.

There were four large (30+ feet) trees on the land. Excavation of the site would have left them in a dangerously unstable position, being as they were, very shallow rooted and on very steep (after excavation) sandy soil.

One high wind would have them falling over onto the new home.

Building It.

Now even after the plans were approved there was still the odd problem, mainly due to our builders lack of knowledge when it came to greenhouses, as far as he was concerned it was just a small house.

When told we wanted a slab poured he agreed to do it for us, we explained the need for under slab heating and that was arranged, but before we could blink or explain about drainage, there we were, faced with a solid slab and not a drainage hole in sight.

Next we talked about actually building the "Chook Shed" as it became known by the workmen.

The plan called for brick up to about waist high or about three foot. While I was discussing the brick work with the bricklayers the carpenters wandered over for a look. Now if you have ever seen tradesmen at work, you will recognize the "LOOK" it consists of rolling eyes, and significant looks at each other and this is what I got.

Apparently the carpenters were unwilling to erect (Impossible is what they said) the frame on the brickwork, there was much talk about it having to be a metal frame to withstand the wind, unsafe etc. etc. The upshot was a wooden frame but no brickwork. (take note all greenhouse owners all over the world, building walls is NOT safe. *grin*) I could have stood my ground, found another builder but by this time I was despairing of ever getting a greenhouse at all.

Within a fortnight I had a greenhouse, within a month it had water, electricity, fans and light, all it needed was the babies to move in. I was also more than $6.500.00 poorer and getting more so daily.

The Joys.

In the four months since both the house and the greenhouse were completed the greenhouse has been a constant source of joy and happiness.

Of course there have been teething problems, shade cloth hurriedly applied when the temperature decided to climb to the high 30s (98F), shelving arrangements changed, but nothing we were unable to cope with.

Our plants have thrived, Draculas have flowered for the first time in over five years (Proving that some at least were not what we thought they were) and my Masdevallias have put on such a display, more than I could ever have dreamed of.

Even the odd Paphiopedilum and Odontoglossum are thriving in their new home.

Some Technical Bits.

Dimensions 10 X 14 foot. (3 X 4.3M) height 9 foot (2.7M)

Solid 4inch concrete base, with inbuilt heating coil connected to thermostat.

Treated timber frame with windows on three sides and door on other.

Laserlite 2000 on walls and roof. Colour Grey, with 20% light and 34% heat transmission. Chosen to lower both light and heat for my shade loving, cool growing plants.

Two ceiling fans running 24 hours per day, one evaporative cooler running as cooler during daylight hours and as fan only during the night.

Mixture of wooden slatted benches and three, four tier metal shelves.

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TRANSCRIPT

The Follies & Joys of Building a Greenhouse
By Fleur Malcolm

WBS, Wed 4 Mar 98

Present were 18:

Harold
marylois
KB Barrett
John
sparkysteve
Dan
kahless66
ABU CALANTHE
foxtail2
Paula
Ellen
RDavids
206.87.90.12 (visiting)
Fleur
Barbara
Wilton
Brazosr
Peter

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur. Tell me about all your problems building a greenhouse. I'm in the middle of building mine. And need all your secrets. Mine is a slow work in progress. My Father an I work on it when able!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Dan, most of my problems were caused by the various tradesmen, doing it yourself should at least solve those.

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur....the only true help I got was from Ed Wright. I know I must have been a pain for him, but he has so much experience. I'd never be to this stage without Ed Wright's help. WE just have the frame up. This weekend we plan on water lines, electric lines, and a drain! Then gravel, sand and weed barrier, then more gravel. What exterior are you using? What Size?

RDavids (Smile)
Yes. Tell us about the 'Greenhouse' I read the prep. sheet.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur, Have you heard of Lexan polycarbonate sheet from GE. It almost unbreakable. they have a nice lighweight double skin sheet which is good for retaining heat and keeping out the cold!

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Abu, that's what we used for my GH, easy to work with.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Abu, We have something like that here but the cost is very high. I used, a grey polycarbonate, to reduce both light and heat buildup. The polycarbonate has a 10 year warranty against hail, discolouration and almost anything else you can think of.

brazosr
Texl Dan, I have a number of Greenhouses I have built myself and went through many problems over the years. I would try to help you ESP since you are a neighbor!!

Fleur (Tasmania)
It's on a concrete slab about 4 to 5 inches thick With a heating element in the centre of it. The in-floor heating was chosen for two reasons, and while running cost was a factor it did not really come into the equation. The main reason was that I like it!!! It takes up no space which is so valuable and does not dry the air like other electric heating would. While designing the greenhouse (via e-mail, grin, wonderful thing) Other forms of heating were considered, but we do not have piped gas here and I am not a lover of any form of heating with a flame. The other reason (how many is that now?) is that I can increase the humidity in winter by just wetting the floor, the gentle heat will slowly release the water into the air. Of cause all this is just theory, only a winter will tell if it works.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Fleur---how did the heater do with the humidity? Dry things up?

Fleur (Tasmania)
So far, Steve, it's worked very well, the air has stayed moist almost all the time.

121133ellen
I have 10 inches of gravel on the floor for the same reason. I have pipes under the gravel that connect to misters so when the heater is on continually, the misters keep the humidity up.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur~ The doubleskin polycarbonate is quite resonable in price. I think the agents in Australia is Cadillac Plastics Pty. Ltd. Did you buy the sheets from them?

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Abu, the cost is not that cheap in the states, on the double wall. If you look at the R factor it's not much better than glass.

ABU CALANTHE
Dan, you can [get] any R factor just ask the dealer or agent. They have a wide range of sheets.

121133ellen
Fleur, how cold is winter?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Ellen, winter here is not as severe as most of the US, nights of about 0 days 4-6 C. The original idea was a central concrete slab, with a gravel surround, but the builder heard only the word slab, and before I could blink I had one 10X14 foot.

121133ellen
How do you drain off water?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Water runs out through a couple of channels drilled into the concrete, not drains as such but just to the outside.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Fleur, how far deep are the heating unit? What pattern?

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur, we decided on gravel and a wash sand base in mine. Did you ever think about propane. Electricity with us getting the shaft from Houston Lighting and Power is prohibitive! I thought you use clear glazing and then use shade cloth?

brazosr
Why heat the concrete? -- This to me would induce all kinds of undesirables from the ground level up!???

Fleur (Tasmania)
brazosr, I havn't had any problems from the heating at all. We do not have gas on tap here Dan, and bottles in my hands are very unreliable. I think good hygene and air flow are much more important.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Ellen - where are you located?

RDavids (Smile)
Can bugs come in through the channels you just mentioned?

121133ellen
I'm 60 miles outside NY city in Smithtown, Long Island

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Ellen - I was just wondering about the misters being on all the time when you heat. I can see that 'up there' raising the humidity would be most inportant during the winter.

brazosr
You all are way above me--but they keep living and blooming the way I'm struggling with???

Fleur (Tasmania)
No bugs coming in, there is a very fine mesh there.

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur, we have large 250 gallon or larger storage tanks. The company leases the tank and brings a truck to fill up the tank when needed. Propane costs about 89 to 91 cents a gallon...which gives about 95000 BTU's per gallon! You must not have the service.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Dan, yes we have that, but it's much more expensive here than electicity.

One part of the greenhouse has four level metal shelving and I was asked about dripping from the upper plants to those below. I'm not too concerned at this stage about water dripping from the plants above. All the plants get watered at the same time as they are all potted in the same mix, and the smaller pots which would dry out quicker are in trays which reduces water loss enough to bring them in line. The clay pots which do need more frequent watering are hanging on the front ledge of the shelves and do not drip on any other plants.

121133ellen
I run the misters with a humidistat that keeps the humidity constant. I can [go?] long periods without them on. They seem to be more important in the winter.

Fleur (Tasmania)
John, humidity is so very important here as well, our winters are very dry.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Fleur, here the 'Gas' is far more cheaper the the electricty.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur, John is right don't overheat until you lose the humidity in the greenhouse.

foxtail2
Fleur, did you place the green house to face in which direction for sun?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
For us, the summers are so dry. My misters are on all day long during the summer but only for short periods during the winter.

brazosr
TexDan, I have natural gas running three furnaces connected to a mister system (manual) have a constant air flow.. (Mainly because I am always talking in the GH's!)

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Fleur - be careful that the fine mesh doesn't clog up fron stuff draining down the channels.

Fleur (Tasmania)
When I talk about heating, I not trying to keep it warm, just frost free, about 45F.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)<
Fleur, are your summers rainy and humid, and winters dry?

brazosr
WARNING TO ALL: If any of you grow Bromeliads do NOT place them under any treated wood overhang of any kind!!!!!

Fleur (Tasmania)
Paula, We get very little rain at all, but mainly during spring/autumn.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
I see, Fleur. Here I need to heat my GH to 60 degree at night and about 70 day time all winter. Your type of heat will not work here.

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur....you just need some of our Texas oil. Then your gas would be cheaper!(GRIN) Houston is terrible. I would love to use electricity, but I have a $550 dollare electric bill in the Summer and.......the greenhouse is not online.

Fleur (Tasmania)
I have the thermostat set for 15C, this (hopefully) will keep the Draculas who are closest, warm without overheating the cooler growing Masdevallias.

121133ellen
Barbara, I would go bankrupt running a greenhouse that warm with the Long Island Lighting Co. Highest rates in the nation.

RDavids (Orig Az USA , now in Quebec )
Fleur, you are very kind to take time to explain about your greenhouse and answer questions.

brazosr
JCY8SnHowdy from Texas, my mister control reminds me of when I had to cut wood for cooking and heat---(all by hand)

Fleur (Tasmania)
Maximum running cost for any (hydro-heat) appliance is 4c/hour and that includes our heat pumps in the home. Nothing else comes close to that price. We do still have a problem with the cladding we used, and would not use it again, The stuff is ridged, and it's impossible to seal the joints correctly, we have had to line the whole thing in clear plastic. If anyone has any ideas solutions I would like to hear.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Ellen, yes, we Californians are spoiled. But, I try not to take things for granted.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur, I sure am glad I don't need a greenhouse to grow my orchids.
If your cladding is rigid, silicone sealant will do the job?

brazosr
Fleur, my Masdevallias never die back even in the coldest winter --- I guess they love to be in Texas???

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Brazosr, if you don't have a greenhouse, where do you grow your orchids? In the house?

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
I did. My GH have slanted roof. One side to the hill. I wish I can have roof like Fleur's.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Most of masdevallias would grow without the heat, but the Dracs like a bit of warmth The roof is good, as I hang a lot of plants from it.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Here you can see some of the hanging plants picture. The other side of the greenhouse has many more, some from the roof and also on mesh around the walls.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Looks great! Fleur. Good lighting too. Do you need shade cloth?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Yes Barbara, shadecloth over the roof only, just to protect the Pleurothallids that hang there.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur, Thats a nice greenhouse you have got. Are you still having problems with it? If so what are the problem?

Fleur (Tasmania)
No real problems at the moment, still waiting to see what winter brings. Some days cooling has been a problem, hard when the temperature outside is 30C++ and I want 25C. lots of water thrown over the floors then. Thinking of air conditioning, but I have to save some money first.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Fleur, do you plan to paint the wood?

121133ellen
What about more air, additional fans to keep temp down?

KB Barrett
Fleur, in America they sell an expandable foam insulation in aerosol cans that we use to fill the spaces between the corrugated 'cladding' and the wood supports.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur~ Keep the Silicone sealants handy just in case you have the cold winter air seeping through your walls or roof.

Fleur (Tasmania)
The wood is painted with a wood stain/sealant.

RDavids (Orig Az USA , now in Quebec )
I like the greenhouse. You did a fine job. I did have one suggestion - - Bury the contractor in the rose garden. Smile. Thank you.

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Fleur, swamp cooler is far better the A.C.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Air flow is via three windows, two ceiling fans and an oscillating evaporative cooler.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Fleur, thanks for all the great info...time to turn in - chat with you all on Sat...

Fleur (Tasmania)
Thanks, David, and goodnight, Paula.

ABU CALANTHE
Fleur~ you can now expand your collection. Maybe some highland tropical orchid species.

121133ellen
Time for me to say goodnight. Fleur, lots of luck with the greenhouse and am looking forward to the info on sending the pics on internet.

Fleur (Tasmania)
I actually do have a rose garden too. *grin*

marylois (Southwest Louisiana)
Don Pylant of the San Antonio Botanical Garden will moderate a session here at Orchid Safari...see the upcoming events on the homepage OS events

bmtorchids (Barbara in sunny Calif.)
Fleur, you really planned your GH well. Looks like it will give you many years of happy orchids.

Fleur (Tasmania)
We are very happy with it even if it's not what we wanted to start off with.

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
There is more cost in a greenhouse than most are aware of. Much planning also. I'm building a 14X37. More cost than I thought!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
And you mean just material, Dan?

Fleur (Tasmania)
I know all about cost over-runs, nothing at all came in at the price we expected.

ABU CALANTHE
Listen everybody~I am thinking of putting on the agenda of the 17th WOC`2002 a workshop~forum for friends on the internet to meet face to face on how best to improve the internet for the benefit of the world orchid community as part of the Lecture Program. What do you all think about the idea?

marylois (Southwest Louisiana)
Abu - excellent idea. Please email Fran Wagenheim who did this at the NY show Fran Wagenheim

brazosr
Fleur: I'm sure that if you love orchids as we do plus all the multitude of other plants--plus your are crazy enough-- to stay up late at night to talk to some very wonderful people-- the I feel you plants will bloom twice this year.( But you must talk to them every day and play the right music) Have a wonderful tomorrow!!!

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Sparky, I planned to build one out of wood, but a friend had the galvanized bows he would give me for free. I thought....WOW...what a savings. The land work, gravel, sand, drainage, shelves, weed barrier, electricity, water, lights, shade cloth...Fans, swamp coolers, heaters. I'm building mine on a tight budget. I do all my own labor, but the materials collectively are expensive.

Brasor, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. Who would spend this kind of money on expensive plants and a greenhouse or suitable structure, unless they really loved orchids and plants! (GRIN)

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Fleur, I just read the pre literature. Why did you remove the trees....for the extra light or the problem of them falling on the house or greenhouse?

Fleur (Tasmania)
Yes the moss is growing well in there, have to cut it back on some plants. I got another two sacks last weekend. Dan, the risk of them falling over was just two high, the shade would have been welcome.

Tex1 Dan (Dan from Wharton, Texas)
Peter..Where have you been? I need to talk to you about several keikis I have on several phals. When do you cut them for repotting. I also have one catt with a keiki on top of an old bulb where the flower emerges. I've never seen them on catts. This one has a root and a leaf showing.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Dan, I have never seen that, have you a picture?

brazosr
Goodnight, All. May your dreams come true!! Bye.

Fleur (Tasmania)
Good night, brazosr.

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