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So there you have it, the self is a result of the brain's activities and we may be able to initiate this self from a similar arrangement of components which will trigger this self. |
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This process size, run, location, etc..., are really just ways to dodge the issue. If you ask me I think they all work together and cannot be divided into all of these Aristotlian categories when it all overlaps in a fuzzy manner. |
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You mean its like the weather and how you can talk about high and low pressure systems, cold and warm fronts, and air currents, but still cannot predict the weather beyond a couple of days? |
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Ya, kind of like a fractal. The more closely you look at it the more detail you find or the further you descend into the structure the same level of detail is always apparent on it's horizon. |
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If the Earth's weather patterns are synonyms for nonlinear dynamical systems and these patterns show identical and infinite tecelationability, they still depend upon wind, water, and dirt, for determining what types of infinite patterns this possible Earth weather system can take. |
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These elements are only coincidental and the pattern is the pattern, just studya Maldebrot wonder and you'll see that the weather, the self, or whatever, are not things that can ever be fathomed, let alone duplicated! |
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When I look at a wonderful fractal film and see it go on and on and on, the horizon always unfolding into other worlds, I honestly have to ask you, since you use the fractals and Maldebrot Sets as examples, WHAT ARE THESE THINGS IN? As the Earht's weather systems are "IN" the Earth's material sphere - what are these fractals and sets "IN"? |
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Constraints and attractors OF COURSE! |
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Inside or outside of them or both? Look, all I'm trying to say with all of this, is that it's a spaciotemporal pattern that depends upon a spacial only (non-temporal) pattern to get it going and also create the room, so to speak, that the spaciotemporal pattern can move around in. |
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Huh?
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It's like an old fashioned phonograph record and player. If you you look at it with a magnifying glass you will see a long line of bumps, humps and depressions. These just set there - they are ONLY spacial and not temporal. In order to sustain this analogy, between phonograph and self, it would be more like the song played would interact with other sounds in the environment and change the bumps humps and grooves. |
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You mean the time part comes in when the record spins? |
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Yes, and in our brains the synaptic resistence levels, nerve fiber arrangements, etc... , are like the spacial only pattern which can initiate the spaciotemporal pattern that could be symbolized as some sort of fractal or set. |
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This all sounds verylogical and it looks like make me concede that tocreate theself we don't need to create the infinite pattern that the self is, but simply the -spacial only- pattern in the structure and dynamics of the nerve cells. |
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Right again, if the state of all the nerve cells can be recorded and translated into some sort of Number (gooves in the record) and an artificial brain has adjustable nerve cell like structures, this number could be fed into it, arrange the components, and then, so to speak, move the needle over the record which is spinning, play the self. |
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Wait a minute! The behavioral repertoire of artificial life creatures, that live within computers, are programmed by researchers, who understand the structure of these initial programs. Once these programs are initiated they depend upon interaction with their artificial environment to make their subsequent descisions. Can you show that it is possible to understand these chaotic possibilities, that result once these creatures are let loose in the computer? |
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Once they are let loose and interact with their environment it may be impossible to predict what they will be doing within a given period of time. But if the programmer created and uderstands the initial program, then it should be possible to freeze the activities and take a sort of snapshot of what stage the program is at. Then with this spacial only information set it all in motion again from that point. From which it would continue to be impossible to predict what will happen next. |
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What would be the sense of simply stopping the program, taking a snapshot of the program's source code, and then starting it again? |
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Well you could set one of these creatures loose in one computer, stop the program at some later time, read the source code, and then put this into an entirely different computer. In this way you could sort of resurrect a creature, that you did not have much control over, and set it loose in another computer envoronment with all of its memory or self reanimated, so to speak. |
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You don't really believe that this would be possible with a human brain do you? There is simply to many feedback reactions -in-process- and loops and partial states of neurons to calculate like you could with the artificial life program! |
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Yes it does seem impossible with the human brain. We will have to wait and see if we can actually stop or take a snapshot of every nerve cell and it's state simualtaniously. If we can we may be able to transfer a human from this soul concentrate (source code for one moment of human existence) to another brain like entity either immediatly or with a lapse of time inbetween |
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This all sounds a little far out! |
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My only point in this conversation is to address the issue of the blurring of the spacial only portion with the activated spacio-temporal sequence. It is so easy to confuse these two parts and hence mislead others into believing in certain impossibilities, simply because these two aspects are not accounted for. |
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